I could actually see Enduring Ideal work in a W/G enchantress deck, using cards like Story Circle and Worship to hold the board until you have the mana. The deck would have to be very defensive, run Vine Trellis and other mana acceleration,and have some sort of win condition using enchantments,maybe genjus or Call of the Wild.
Although the best home for it might very well be in 5-color honden (maybe 4 since the blue one won't be of much use if you can't play spells :tongue2: )
Glad im not the only one who has noticed the synergy between Epic and Channel. I think an Epic, Channel deck could be rather powerful.
Anyways, speculation on what the other Epics will do???
Am I the only one who has noticed the synergy between Epic and the other mechanic of this set Channel?? Channel is an activated ability, not a spell. I think an Epic, Channel deck could be rather powerful.
Anyways, speculation on what the other Epics will do???
The problem is with this is that buy the time you get around to having enough mana to play Epic spells, assuming they all cost this much, is that the small shinen abilities will probably be pretty uneffective. Not to mention, there's only one or two Channel spells per color.
I'm definitely going to make a casual deck based around Enduring Ideals. Something like this search order: Decree of Silence -> Mirari's Wake -> Centaur Glade -> Decree of Silence/Steely Resolve. Opalescence wouldn't be bad either.
Enduring Ideal is ..... interesting, but I figured Epic would end up this way. Huge cost, ability that is reasonable but not ghastly amazing. Oh well. An enchantment a turn is fun I guess. Meh.
As for Michiko, I agree with Xen that were she a 2/3 she'd be insanely awesome. As she is, she's still quite potent. She wards off damage as white loves to do, but does it in a board-affecting way, which defensive white cards rarely ever are. Which is why I love her. Defensive, but in a way that is far more relevant than defensive cards in the past. Love her.
Utterly unplayable. By the time you reach 7 mana you've already drawn and played all the enchantments you're gonna need. Michiko is only good at dying and losing tempo.
While looking at the white epic I am thinking of what the other colors can do:
Blue will probably be a returnal of permanents or a static counter spell of some type
Black will probably be creature destroyal, returning creature from graveyard to play
Green will be searching deck for creature to play or maybe farfetched for adding +1/+1 counters on your creatures
Red will probable be direct damage or land destruction
Hopefully there will be more than 1 per color and hopefully more playable than the one shown
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Current Type 2 deck: Snakes on a flying thing
Current Type 1 deck(s): SerraBomber & "Cheaper by the Lazuli"
Utterly unplayable. By the time you reach 7 mana you've already drawn and played all the enchantments you're gonna need. Michiko is only good at dying and losing tempo.
the spell had to allow the player ways to interact with it; just because you're done playing spells doesn't mean there's nothing left to do; there's activated abilities, creatures that can attack and possibly even new keywords that get around the restriction
Just wanted to point that out for those that didn't read the article all the way through... :smile3:
Just wanted to point that out for those that didn't read the article all the way through... :smile3:
Im still guessing that he's refering to the channel ability. Depending on what all has channel and what it does it could have potential.
Im really excited to see what the Black Epic does.
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So there might be spells that say "this can be played after an Epic spell"? It would explain the high number of Orb hits for Epic.
On the topic of that Epic spell, I don't think people are giving it enough credit. In Kami-block Honden.dec, it'll win you the game in 3 turns in most cases. Say you already have 1 Honden out. You fetch Life's Web, then next turn fetch Infinite Rage, stacking the abilities so that you get 3 tokens from Life's Web and triple effect from the other Honden. (Would you get to deal 3 damage? Not sure) Next turn, fetch another Honden. By this point, you'd likely deal 4 damage, gain 8 life, and put 4 1/1's into play every turn. Tough to stop that. And heck, if Sway of the Stars can see play at 10 mana, then this is far from too expensive.
So there might be spells that say "this can be played after an Epic spell"? It would explain the high number of Orb hits for Epic.
On the topic of that Epic spell, I don't think people are giving it enough credit. In Kami-block Honden.dec, it'll win you the game in 3 turns in most cases. Say you already have 1 Honden out. You fetch Life's Web, then next turn fetch Infinite Rage, stacking the abilities so that you get 3 tokens from Life's Web and triple effect from the other Honden. (Would you get to deal 3 damage? Not sure) Next turn, fetch another Honden. By this point, you'd likely deal 4 damage, gain 8 life, and put 4 1/1's into play every turn. Tough to stop that. And heck, if Sway of the Stars can see play at 10 mana, then this is far from too expensive.
Maybe when Mirrodin rolls out and the rest of the format slows down because of the lack of colorless mana acceleration and speedy decks due to said acceleration. Until then this is way too slow to be competetive.
I think that some of you aren't really thinking of the possibilites of this Epic card before you post, much less before you complain about CC and 'uselessness'. Accelerating to 7 isn't all too hard with GW.....maybe a splash of blue for some counter/bounce to stall a turn or two. When you play the spell for the first tim then you get a honden.......probably white or red red honden first. And Vassal's duty, to make your opponent concede due to inablility to acknowledge the fact you played such a card.
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I think that some of you aren't really thinking of the possibilites of this Epic card before you post, much less before you complain about CC and 'uselessness'. Accelerating to 7 isn't all too hard with GW.....maybe a splash of blue for some counter/bounce to stall a turn or two. When you play the spell for the first tim then you get a honden.......probably white or red red honden first. And Vassal's duty, to make your opponent concede due to inablility to acknowledge the fact you played such a card.
You spend the first 3 or 4 turns accelerating to 7 mana, and then start pulling out Hondens one search at a time. Besides the Hondens, what else could possibly win you the game? Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to even begin searching for Hondens is just asking to get your face smashed.
Turn 1: Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2: Lay a plains. Now have four mana. Play a Kodama's Reach and some one mana weenie or something.
Turn 3: Play Plains or Forest. You now have six mana. Your opponent smashes face while watching you fiddle around with mana so you can play your Epic spell. Play Final Judgment and remove 'em all.
Turn 4: Play land, play Epic Spell, pull out Honden of Infinite Rage.
Turn 5: Go get Honden of Cleansing Fire. You're now dealing a whopping 2 damage a turn and gaining 2 life.
Turn 6: Go get Honden of Life's Web. You're now dealing an amazing 3 damage and gaining 3 life a turn.
Turn 7: Go get Honden of Night's Reach
Turn 8: Go get Honden of Seeing Winds, even though it won't do you anygood.
You spend the first 3 or 4 turns accelerating to 7 mana, and then start pulling out Hondens one search at a time. Besides the Hondens, what else could possibly win you the game? Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to even begin searching for Hondens is just asking to get your face smashed.
Lol.....well I wasn't meaning to defend it as being a good card, I'm just saying that it isn't totally bad, and people are really slamming on it with first-impressions. And hey, maybe Saviors will bring out a kick-ass enchantment that makes this worthwhile.
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On the topic of that Epic spell, I don't think people are giving it enough credit. In Kami-block Honden.dec, it'll win you the game in 3 turns in most cases. Say you already have 1 Honden out. You fetch Life's Web, then next turn fetch Infinite Rage, stacking the abilities so that you get 3 tokens from Life's Web and triple effect from the other Honden. (Would you get to deal 3 damage? Not sure) Next turn, fetch another Honden. By this point, you'd likely deal 4 damage, gain 8 life, and put 4 1/1's into play every turn. Tough to stop that. And heck, if Sway of the Stars can see play at 10 mana, then this is far from too expensive.
And let's not forget the possibility of Mirror Gallery. Things can get really goofy with multiples of each of those.
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Every time I destroy an opponent's creature, I jump on the table, yell "Boo ya, you son of a *****!", rip the card in half, urinate on it, then forcefully shove it down my opponent's throat.
Needless to say, I don't have many players in my playgroup anymore.
Maybe when Mirrodin rolls out and the rest of the format slows down because of the lack of colorless mana acceleration and speedy decks due to said acceleration. Until then this is way too slow to be competetive.
I dunno. You may be overestimating the speed of the format; five of the top 8 decks at PT Philly were packing maindeck Myojin. Then again, the Myojin all have a bigger immediate effect on the game than this. Maybe a G/w/u deck focused on defense and mana acceleration that's packing a set of shrines as a victory condition?
You spend the first 3 or 4 turns accelerating to 7 mana, and then start pulling out Hondens one search at a time. Besides the Hondens, what else could possibly win you the game? Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to even begin searching for Hondens is just asking to get your face smashed.
Not to mention the issues that would spring up should Enduring Ideal not show up when needed or if you draw too many off-color Hondens. The idea is fun for Casual, but as of yet, I don't think it's viable for T2.
As for EI's uses in formats with a greater hold of cards to choose from, I think it may see some play there, but I still think any deck ideas will need some fine tinkering to fully abuse the card.
My main problem with Enduring Ideal isn't its mana cost, it's the slow nature of its search. You only get one enchantment a turn, and in the meantime, you can't use spells to protect your enchantments (which are obviously your path to victory). You could use Sterling Grove to protect them. But in that case, couldn't your Groves double as tutoring effects? It's still an interesting effect, but one that I'm not sure overcomes its own drawbacks. But time could prove me wrong.
I dunno. You may be overestimating the speed of the format; five of the top 8 decks at PT Philly were packing maindeck Myojin. Then again, the Myojin all have a bigger immediate effect on the game than this. Maybe a G/w/u deck focused on defense and mana acceleration that's packing a set of shrines as a victory condition?
Well, I'm talking when Mirrodin rolls out and you lose all your good mana acceleration outside of Kodama's Reach and Sakura-Tribe Elder, when Eternal Witness, Solemn Simulacrum, Chrome Mox, and Wayfarer's Bauble are all absent.
I added this to my previous post, but I could see it at best going like this:
Turn 1: Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2: Lay a plains. Now have four mana. Play a Kodama's Reach and some one mana weenie or something.
Turn 3: Play Plains or Forest. You now have six mana. Your opponent smashes face while watching you fiddle around with mana so you can play your Epic spell. Play Final Judgment and remove 'em all.
Turn 4: Play land, play Epic Spell, pull out Honden of Infinite Rage.
Turn 5: Go get Honden of Cleansing Fire. You're now dealing a whopping 2 damage a turn and gaining 2 life.
Turn 6: Go get Honden of Life's Web. You're now dealing an amazing 3 damage and gaining 3 life a turn.
Turn 7: Go get Honden of Night's Reach
Turn 8: Go get Honden of Seeing Winds, even though it won't do you anygood.
I'm not impressed by either of these cards. Also, the rampant keywording is getting annoying. How is a keyword necessary for a 5-card rare cycle?
Has anone considered the idea that Epic may continue outside the current block? It does not seem to have any specific aspect that ties it in with the block. It seems like a mechanix that is universal in flavor and function. I bet we will be seeing this as a staple mechanic... probably only in third sets, though, since they would probably want people to be engrossed in the story by the time any "epic" events occur. I think these are probably just bland, boring versions that are just being used as introductions. There is no end to the possibilities of what they can do in the future.
I am no rules lawyer so someone help me with this one: If you have a Bazaar of Wonders in play, it'd be a really bad idea for someone to cast an Epic spell, right?
From here on out, the thread that appears to be first posted (so long as it isn't just OMG NEW ARTIKLE OUT...needs all the relevant information) will stay. Others will be deleted. There will be no contest. Whoever posts first, gets the thread to stay. Its no biggie anyway.
Epic looks like it will be a silly cycle of things.
The legend is pretty cool and can probably be comboed with well...
Yay for new cards, of course.
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Although the best home for it might very well be in 5-color honden (maybe 4 since the blue one won't be of much use if you can't play spells :tongue2: )
Anyways, speculation on what the other Epics will do???
Cater to timmy. Alienate Johnny. Act confused when Spike breaks the format anyway.
Definition of Combo Decks:
Because who wouldn't want to be both?!?
:spirit:
The problem is with this is that buy the time you get around to having enough mana to play Epic spells, assuming they all cost this much, is that the small shinen abilities will probably be pretty uneffective. Not to mention, there's only one or two Channel spells per color.
(Also known as Xenphire)
As for Michiko, I agree with Xen that were she a 2/3 she'd be insanely awesome. As she is, she's still quite potent. She wards off damage as white loves to do, but does it in a board-affecting way, which defensive white cards rarely ever are. Which is why I love her. Defensive, but in a way that is far more relevant than defensive cards in the past. Love her.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Blue will probably be a returnal of permanents or a static counter spell of some type
Black will probably be creature destroyal, returning creature from graveyard to play
Green will be searching deck for creature to play or maybe farfetched for adding +1/+1 counters on your creatures
Red will probable be direct damage or land destruction
Hopefully there will be more than 1 per color and hopefully more playable than the one shown
Current Type 2 deck: Snakes on a flying thing
Current Type 1 deck(s): SerraBomber & "Cheaper by the Lazuli"
Proud Member of Gaymers
Just like by the time you reach nine mana you've already drawn and played all the creatures you'l need, amirite?
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
Just wanted to point that out for those that didn't read the article all the way through... :smile3:
Im still guessing that he's refering to the channel ability. Depending on what all has channel and what it does it could have potential.
Im really excited to see what the Black Epic does.
Cater to timmy. Alienate Johnny. Act confused when Spike breaks the format anyway.
Definition of Combo Decks:
Because who wouldn't want to be both?!?
:spirit:
On the topic of that Epic spell, I don't think people are giving it enough credit. In Kami-block Honden.dec, it'll win you the game in 3 turns in most cases. Say you already have 1 Honden out. You fetch Life's Web, then next turn fetch Infinite Rage, stacking the abilities so that you get 3 tokens from Life's Web and triple effect from the other Honden. (Would you get to deal 3 damage? Not sure) Next turn, fetch another Honden. By this point, you'd likely deal 4 damage, gain 8 life, and put 4 1/1's into play every turn. Tough to stop that. And heck, if Sway of the Stars can see play at 10 mana, then this is far from too expensive.
Maybe when Mirrodin rolls out and the rest of the format slows down because of the lack of colorless mana acceleration and speedy decks due to said acceleration. Until then this is way too slow to be competetive.
(Also known as Xenphire)
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You spend the first 3 or 4 turns accelerating to 7 mana, and then start pulling out Hondens one search at a time. Besides the Hondens, what else could possibly win you the game? Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to even begin searching for Hondens is just asking to get your face smashed.
Turn 1: Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2: Lay a plains. Now have four mana. Play a Kodama's Reach and some one mana weenie or something.
Turn 3: Play Plains or Forest. You now have six mana. Your opponent smashes face while watching you fiddle around with mana so you can play your Epic spell. Play Final Judgment and remove 'em all.
Turn 4: Play land, play Epic Spell, pull out Honden of Infinite Rage.
Turn 5: Go get Honden of Cleansing Fire. You're now dealing a whopping 2 damage a turn and gaining 2 life.
Turn 6: Go get Honden of Life's Web. You're now dealing an amazing 3 damage and gaining 3 life a turn.
Turn 7: Go get Honden of Night's Reach
Turn 8: Go get Honden of Seeing Winds, even though it won't do you anygood.
That's assuming everything goes right.
(Also known as Xenphire)
A cycle of 5 will use all 10 hits for Epic.
Lol.....well I wasn't meaning to defend it as being a good card, I'm just saying that it isn't totally bad, and people are really slamming on it with first-impressions. And hey, maybe Saviors will bring out a kick-ass enchantment that makes this worthwhile.
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And let's not forget the possibility of Mirror Gallery. Things can get really goofy with multiples of each of those.
No, Channel gets around Epic. There's a thread about it in the New Card Discussion form called svg tech, started by me.
I have no extendo-sig. Sorry, I'm just not vain enough to think someone will click on it.
Not to mention the issues that would spring up should Enduring Ideal not show up when needed or if you draw too many off-color Hondens. The idea is fun for Casual, but as of yet, I don't think it's viable for T2.
As for EI's uses in formats with a greater hold of cards to choose from, I think it may see some play there, but I still think any deck ideas will need some fine tinkering to fully abuse the card.
My main problem with Enduring Ideal isn't its mana cost, it's the slow nature of its search. You only get one enchantment a turn, and in the meantime, you can't use spells to protect your enchantments (which are obviously your path to victory). You could use Sterling Grove to protect them. But in that case, couldn't your Groves double as tutoring effects? It's still an interesting effect, but one that I'm not sure overcomes its own drawbacks. But time could prove me wrong.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Well, I'm talking when Mirrodin rolls out and you lose all your good mana acceleration outside of Kodama's Reach and Sakura-Tribe Elder, when Eternal Witness, Solemn Simulacrum, Chrome Mox, and Wayfarer's Bauble are all absent.
I added this to my previous post, but I could see it at best going like this:
Turn 1: Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2: Lay a plains. Now have four mana. Play a Kodama's Reach and some one mana weenie or something.
Turn 3: Play Plains or Forest. You now have six mana. Your opponent smashes face while watching you fiddle around with mana so you can play your Epic spell. Play Final Judgment and remove 'em all.
Turn 4: Play land, play Epic Spell, pull out Honden of Infinite Rage.
Turn 5: Go get Honden of Cleansing Fire. You're now dealing a whopping 2 damage a turn and gaining 2 life.
Turn 6: Go get Honden of Life's Web. You're now dealing an amazing 3 damage and gaining 3 life a turn.
Turn 7: Go get Honden of Night's Reach
Turn 8: Go get Honden of Seeing Winds, even though it won't do you anygood.
That's assuming everything goes right.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Has anone considered the idea that Epic may continue outside the current block? It does not seem to have any specific aspect that ties it in with the block. It seems like a mechanix that is universal in flavor and function. I bet we will be seeing this as a staple mechanic... probably only in third sets, though, since they would probably want people to be engrossed in the story by the time any "epic" events occur. I think these are probably just bland, boring versions that are just being used as introductions. There is no end to the possibilities of what they can do in the future.
/sarcasm
Sterling Grove would be my tool of choice, personally.
I am no rules lawyer so someone help me with this one: If you have a Bazaar of Wonders in play, it'd be a really bad idea for someone to cast an Epic spell, right?
Epic looks like it will be a silly cycle of things.
The legend is pretty cool and can probably be comboed with well...
Yay for new cards, of course.
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