With all the mana you can produce in block, I like Enduring Ideals lots. It seems decent in standard with Worship, Ivory Mask, and whatnot. Some killer enchantments in saviors might make this a force in block. Possibly.
Btw, don't let Michiko's toughness get in the way of you playing her. Hokori is still awesome, despite his toughness, and I feel that Michiko should be great as well.
Judging by the spoiler, this is really going to be a control block. Gerards Wisdom and No Mercy in the same color, and same block? WW was the premier aggro deck, but I'm not sure how it can handle 8-14 point life bursts and sacrificing permanents for each time one of it's dorks swings for 2.
You spend the first 3 or 4 turns accelerating to 7 mana, and then start pulling out Hondens one search at a time. Besides the Hondens, what else could possibly win you the game? Having to wait until turn 4 or 5 to even begin searching for Hondens is just asking to get your face smashed.
Turn 1: Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2: Lay a plains. Now have four mana. Play a Kodama's Reach and some one mana weenie or something.
Turn 3: Play Plains or Forest. You now have six mana. Your opponent smashes face while watching you fiddle around with mana so you can play your Epic spell. Play Final Judgment and remove 'em all.
Turn 4: Play land, play Epic Spell, pull out Honden of Infinite Rage.
Turn 5: Go get Honden of Cleansing Fire. You're now dealing a whopping 2 damage a turn and gaining 2 life.
Turn 6: Go get Honden of Life's Web. You're now dealing an amazing 3 damage and gaining 3 life a turn.
Turn 7: Go get Honden of Night's Reach
Turn 8: Go get Honden of Seeing Winds, even though it won't do you anygood.
That's assuming everything goes right.
Your opponent plays a B/G deck.
Your opponent acts:
Turn 1:Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2:Lay a swamp, Reveals a Cranial Extraction from her/his hand.
Turn 3...No more turn 3. You surrendered.
Wonder if this is considered off topic, but on Rei's article he mentioned special spiritcraft by the Kirins.
So I guess it's safe to assume Kirins do have spiritcraft triggers or something related to spiritcraft triggers?
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am i the only one refreshing magic websites while looking at porn and eating fruit loops at 2 in the morning?...i feel so alone...
......WTF????....... I don't even know what kind of warning you deserve for this....
So, I was right some time back when we discussed about Michiko's creature type...Advisor was one of them. Nice card, to say the least. And the epic one is not bad...I wonder what the rest will be...
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Michiko: Good effect, still trades if Shocked etc., but without a lot of damage prevention or toughness boosting (not to mention your opponent still willing to throw burn/attack), probably not consistent like Braids and Smokestack were.
Enduring Ideal: The effect is good, but:
-need to buy time or try and accelerate into it.
-need to put in a bunch of enchantments that you want to play but not necessarily draw/cast.
-really dependent on Channel, abilities of stuff that's already in play (and cyclers in other formats) to offset lack of other spells.
I doubt either one will be used much in constructed (allthough Michiko is nice sideboard against aggro decks that have no way of removing it i.e. WW), but Enduring Ideals seems like a great casual card. You could go with Hondens or have a toolbox approach with Ivory Mask, Arrest, Worship, Seal of Cleansing etc.
Reaching 7 mana is not that differcult. Sway was play at 10(if something Otherworlded), and usually played at 14+(float mana).
But I must say better not compare Epic Ideal to Sway.
Sway is winning a game for you, if not, at least it help you out of bad situations.
Playing Epic Ideal is just starting the plan to win. Your opp is still playing spells and can ruin your plan and can win before you do, while you cannot stop him.
Epic Ideal is not tournament worthly IMO. Wish to see the tutor-for-socrery epic(if any):)
Quote from RMS Oceanic »
The idea behind epic is cool, but the cost of Enduring Ideals makes it difficult to use.
Michiko, however, is awesome! The guy was right when he said it's how Karmic Justice should have been. Definitely going in Legendary Weenie in Block, and into my WW sideboard. Take that, Rude Awakening!
If Michiko is on your side and your opp is still playing his Rude Awakening, in most case you are a dead man, or will be. Who cares what to sac if can win? (actually the game ends and nothing would have to sac)
I would rather like to see Michiko a 1/3 or even 0/4 defender. Toughness 2 is just too easy to die:flame:
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Hmmm. I do like Enduring Ideal - the Johnny in me is going "well, if I have a Vedalken Orrery out, I can play two epic spells in response to each other..." :grin2:
Your opponent plays a B/G deck.
Your opponent acts:
Turn 1:Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2:Lay a swamp, Reveals a Cranial Extraction from her/his hand
... and names Plow Under/Cranial Extraction/Tooth and Nail, since lots of decks can open with land, Mox, Birds/STE.
For some reason, Genju of the Realm seems like an OK card to fetch with ideals. Sure, you can't use the return ability, but it IS an 8/12 trampler. Confiscate is obviously good, as are worship, ghostly prison and story circle (not to mention regular COPs). Plus there's probably at least one useful enchantment from saviours.
The epic is good I think considering we got some awsome enchantments in CHK including
Ghostly Prison
Hondens Night of Souls Betrayal (BOMB VS WEENIE!!!)
Heartbeat of Spring (maybe throw in myojins? They did in in PT Philly) Tide of War (check this out it could act as one sided *** vs opponent)
Other good enchantments in core set include
Worship
Story Circle
Karma
Ivory Mask
Phyrexian Arena
Choke Call of the Wild (way to get around "Can't Play Anymore Spells") EDIT: I just thought i'd add Sensei's Top with this would rock!
And in Betrayers maybe get
Genju of the Realms (maybe turn into finisher?)
But their are 2 Problems, even with acceleration speeding this stuff out their is still Cleanfall
Counterspells
As for michiko, I don't like it just since its alittle costly but the meta-game will probably be so slow she will end up being awsome, but if that happens i'll end up playing a fast aggro since everyone will be like "yep meta-game is slow enough we can all use a ton of 7cc + cards!"
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker- Seems to like a reverse Drinker of Sorrow
Enduring Ideal- Who idea was this? There aren't enough enchantment to use with this and Tallowisp does the same thing and is cheaper by alot of mana.
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Enduring Ideal - 5WW
Sorcery (R)
Search your library for an enchantment and put it into play.
Epic (For the rest of the game you can't play spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for it's epic ability.)
Illus. Daron Bader
#9/165
So this is Epic. Epic is certainly a do-or-die card mechanic. Having said that, Enduring Ideal is not a good card. Not in limited, anyway, as there are not too many enchantments that break the game. I hope there are better epic cards. I won't be playing this one any time soon.
Quote from Xenphire »
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker - 3W
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor (R)
Whenever a source an opponent controls deals damage to you, that player sacrifices a permanent. "Watch over my father. Tell him I am safe, but I will not come home until I find out how to bring him back to his sense, and Kamigawa is again at peace." - Michiko Konda, last letter to General Takeno.
Illus. Christopher Moeller
2/2
#18/165
This one, one the other hand is halfway decent. If it wasn't for her low toughness, it'd be great. You just make sure you have ways to protect her, not to mention ways to replenish your life. This IS what Karmic Justice should've been.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Enduring ideal's shortfall is that there are no good enchantments avalible... at all really. so horrible card it is...
Michiko, on the other hand, is interesting. just keep her alive and everytime your opponet deals damage, they get burned. pretty nice, unless they make tokens to sacrifice, so no way forbidden orchid is any better... unfortuantly.
Enduring Ideal will see play in at least block constructed.
Why do I say that?
If you have been paying attention to the Philadelphia coverage you will note that the decks that have been doing the best do all kinds of silly things, like casting turn 4 blue myojins. The mana cost is therefore not really an issue in block. The potential for reasonably consistantly getting out 4 or 5 hondens plus genju of the realms cannot be over looked. I can see the deck using cages and possibly restraints as control elements to help with the combo.
Also keep in mind that even if you cannot cast spells, you can still play lands and use activated abilities. You can also still use channel (which is an activated ability much like cycle). I can quite easily see this deck being a power house in block.
I do not see the card being all that useful in limited, unless you happen to get multiple genjus and cages.
Michiko on the other hand is not as good as people are trying to make it I think. I could be wrong though. I expect it will not see play for the same reason retaliate and reciprocate do not see play.
I actually am looking forward to getting a couple Ideals for my Type 1 enchantment deck. The deck is really good and mana isn't always a problem, since I usually get infinite mana anyway. But that card will allow me to be able to lock down my opponent, if it happens to wind up to be a long game, which it occassionally does depending on who I go against.
the white epic isn't actually that dissapointing IMO. make a green/white extended deck with lots of mana acceleration....or even white/red..whatever...with green in the deck you can put in saproling burst which is a great card on its own...sterling grove can come in to protect your enchantments....once that baby hits the table a burst 3 turns straight should take out any player who doesnt have 935i92345023495t0 life
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Khaldun
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“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
Enduring Ideal may work out well with Zur's Weirding . With some life-gain enchantments, Zur's Weirding would be a lock, as your opponent would be denied spells as you continue to plop enchantments into play for free. Furthermore, Zur's Weirding cannot be used against you effectively as you cannot cast spells anymore anyway.
It may have already been discussed but ummm...has anyone realize how good Enduring is? Genju's are no coming out each turn, Genju of the Realm is going to be funny as hell to play easily. Cage of Hands, Intruder Alarm, Hondens, there are plenty of awsome enchantments people look over because of cost or just not wanting to waste mana on it, I think this card will definitly see play.:)
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Also notice, that enduring only returns 1 hit in the orb. If all the epic spells searched, it's likely that they would all use this word in the title.
My guess is that the epic spells will be wildly different, each with unique effect, just for the heck of flavor.
Enduring probably refers more to the actual Epic ability of the spell rather than the search, so I'm not really sure why you'd think the others didn't search just because they wouldn't have Enduring in the card title. They may not all search, but they will all have the same rules text.
I do agree with you though, I hope all 5 have completely different abilities.
It may already be accounted for, but Eternal comes up with 1 hit in the Orb.
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My guess is that the epic spells will be wildly different, each with unique effect, just for the heck of flavor.
Oh crap.....THERE'S A USE FOR VASSAL'S DUTY!!!!
- Natsume
Btw, don't let Michiko's toughness get in the way of you playing her. Hokori is still awesome, despite his toughness, and I feel that Michiko should be great as well.
Judging by the spoiler, this is really going to be a control block. Gerards Wisdom and No Mercy in the same color, and same block? WW was the premier aggro deck, but I'm not sure how it can handle 8-14 point life bursts and sacrificing permanents for each time one of it's dorks swings for 2.
Your opponent plays a B/G deck.
Your opponent acts:
Turn 1:Lay a forest, Chrome Mox, SacMe-Tribe Elder
EoT Opponent: Sac Elder
Turn 2:Lay a swamp, Reveals a Cranial Extraction from her/his hand.
Turn 3...No more turn 3. You surrendered.
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Music, Love, Magic and Bunny.
Life is so beautiful...
So I guess it's safe to assume Kirins do have spiritcraft triggers or something related to spiritcraft triggers?
<Qzilla> losing to girls at magic is such a high
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Enduring Ideal: The effect is good, but:
-need to buy time or try and accelerate into it.
-need to put in a bunch of enchantments that you want to play but not necessarily draw/cast.
-really dependent on Channel, abilities of stuff that's already in play (and cyclers in other formats) to offset lack of other spells.
But I must say better not compare Epic Ideal to Sway.
Sway is winning a game for you, if not, at least it help you out of bad situations.
Playing Epic Ideal is just starting the plan to win. Your opp is still playing spells and can ruin your plan and can win before you do, while you cannot stop him.
Epic Ideal is not tournament worthly IMO. Wish to see the tutor-for-socrery epic(if any):)
If Michiko is on your side and your opp is still playing his Rude Awakening, in most case you are a dead man, or will be. Who cares what to sac if can win? (actually the game ends and nothing would have to sac)
I would rather like to see Michiko a 1/3 or even 0/4 defender. Toughness 2 is just too easy to die:flame:
I do not sign 5yr+ old cards. Please do not pm me for this.
Two free big upkeep effects, plus still having cards around like Aether Vial, Sneak Attack, Elvish Piper, Soul Foundry, Timmy, Power Gamer...? Count me in! :tongue2:
... and names Plow Under/Cranial Extraction/Tooth and Nail, since lots of decks can open with land, Mox, Birds/STE.
Ghostly Prison
Hondens
Night of Souls Betrayal (BOMB VS WEENIE!!!)
Heartbeat of Spring (maybe throw in myojins? They did in in PT Philly)
Tide of War (check this out it could act as one sided *** vs opponent)
Other good enchantments in core set include
Worship
Story Circle
Karma
Ivory Mask
Phyrexian Arena
Choke
Call of the Wild (way to get around "Can't Play Anymore Spells") EDIT: I just thought i'd add Sensei's Top with this would rock!
And in Betrayers maybe get
Genju of the Realms (maybe turn into finisher?)
But their are 2 Problems, even with acceleration speeding this stuff out their is still
Cleanfall
Counterspells
As for michiko, I don't like it just since its alittle costly but the meta-game will probably be so slow she will end up being awsome, but if that happens i'll end up playing a fast aggro since everyone will be like "yep meta-game is slow enough we can all use a ton of 7cc + cards!"
--Control Playing Spike Till the End.
Enduring Ideal- Who idea was this? There aren't enough enchantment to use with this and Tallowisp does the same thing and is cheaper by alot of mana.
Creator of The Crazy Cycle Contest [CCC]
:bunny:Ex Co-Keeper of Tribal, Multiplayer and Peasant Make a Deck
Ex-Clan Representative and The Woolliest Pirate Of The [Forum Pirates]
Ex-Super-Friend of The Random Bull**** Society
Ex-Woolliest Friend of [Hyrule]
So this is Epic. Epic is certainly a do-or-die card mechanic. Having said that, Enduring Ideal is not a good card. Not in limited, anyway, as there are not too many enchantments that break the game. I hope there are better epic cards. I won't be playing this one any time soon.
This one, one the other hand is halfway decent. If it wasn't for her low toughness, it'd be great. You just make sure you have ways to protect her, not to mention ways to replenish your life. This IS what Karmic Justice should've been.
Michiko, on the other hand, is interesting. just keep her alive and everytime your opponet deals damage, they get burned. pretty nice, unless they make tokens to sacrifice, so no way forbidden orchid is any better... unfortuantly.
Why do I say that?
If you have been paying attention to the Philadelphia coverage you will note that the decks that have been doing the best do all kinds of silly things, like casting turn 4 blue myojins. The mana cost is therefore not really an issue in block. The potential for reasonably consistantly getting out 4 or 5 hondens plus genju of the realms cannot be over looked. I can see the deck using cages and possibly restraints as control elements to help with the combo.
Also keep in mind that even if you cannot cast spells, you can still play lands and use activated abilities. You can also still use channel (which is an activated ability much like cycle). I can quite easily see this deck being a power house in block.
I do not see the card being all that useful in limited, unless you happen to get multiple genjus and cages.
Michiko on the other hand is not as good as people are trying to make it I think. I could be wrong though. I expect it will not see play for the same reason retaliate and reciprocate do not see play.
athelred
Level 1 Judge
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“Game over,” Lursen said. “Demon’s Horn.”
Demon’s Horn has a reputation in multiplayer games, Lursen said.“Usually if somebody in multiplayer plays a Demon’s Horn, we all just immediately attack that person, because he’s going to win,” Lursen said.
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Enduring probably refers more to the actual Epic ability of the spell rather than the search, so I'm not really sure why you'd think the others didn't search just because they wouldn't have Enduring in the card title. They may not all search, but they will all have the same rules text.
I do agree with you though, I hope all 5 have completely different abilities.
It may already be accounted for, but Eternal comes up with 1 hit in the Orb.