Interesting card. As someone else said, this makes much more sense in a Ravnica (CD everywhere) set than in a more traditional (CC or DD) set where people want to use those cards.
Now, as far as people here having a complete set already...? It wouldn't matter from WotC's perspective how they release the information. From the sudden yet overwhelming deluge of cards that have been coming out, it is clear that a leak has occurred somewhere in the process. Silly stories won't protect those who leak the information (which, in this case, includes Hydrokinesis etc.).
Just realize that anyone who leaks information (or assists in the leaking of information) is playing with fire. To my knowledge, R_E has not commented once in any of the 'rumored' threads for FS, and for good reason. He is clearly well aware of what can be at stake.
I figure that either a leak has occurred, and WotC will do everything in their power to find that leak (and, if this is the case, I suggest Hydrokinesis et al. cooperate in locating it), or WotC is taking the opportunity presented with FS to send a lot of false information. FS would be one of the few opportunities WotC has to do this, as one cannot necessarily find trends among the futureshifted cards, due to their nature.
I personally feel this is how non-multicolor-block dual lands should be.
Edit: WoTC is perfectly aware of whats going on. MaRo reads our site regularly by his own admission, and in the past when things go wrong we have ALWAYS gotten a cease order withing the hour. The issue has never been with normal spoilers the few weeks before launch; Its the same thing WoTC itself does. The issue has always been about leaks months and months in advance.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
Wow, that is arguably better than Hallowed Fountain for a sole UW mana base. This could be the most balanced replacement for the original duals if they are a cycle.
Ramenth: Actually, with the notable example we can fall back on, the issue was with what was spoiled, not necessarily when. (Specifically, the timeshifted 'card type'.) I'd be more than happy to discuss this with you privately.
As for the comment about the land, I feel that Ravnica block should have had these lands. You wouldn't have seen as many 'gowildcrazy' multicolor decks if these were the duals.
Reiterating what Ramenth said, MaRo did say in an article that he loves rumour season possibly more than we all do and spends a lot of time on these sites.
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I figure that either a leak has occurred, and WotC will do everything in their power to find that leak
Here's the fact: there are leaks for every set. Too many people have access to Magic information for each set, and enough of them receive comprehensive information that individual cards can't be traced back to them.
Wizards doesn't want this to happen, but it's simply not worthwhile for them to pursue action in most cases: the cost would be immense to chase after every one of these leaks, every time a new set was released. The result is that, as long as they start late (within the last few weeks before the pre-release) and are small (don't leak the entire set all at once) they're going to be overlooked.
The reason R_E got in trouble is because that leak involved information about a future block, and one which was not yet finalized. This isn't a comparable situation.
or WotC is taking the opportunity presented with FS to send a lot of false information.
Speaking of playing with fire: that's a HUGE mess for Wizards to get into. If they want to actually maintain their position that leaks are bad, they need to stay out of the process. Feeding disinformation out to people makes it harder for them to make the claim "this is happening without our knowledge," if it ever comes down to it.
The reason R_E got in trouble is because that leak involved information about a future block, and one which was not yet finalized. This isn't a comparable situation.
R_E got in trouble because MaRo is a control freak and got upset because he wanted purples to be a surprise.
In regard to the card at hand: I'd like for them to complete the cycle of Tainted lands, but that would require 16 more cards, so it'll probably never happen.
Interesting card. As someone else said, this makes much more sense in a Ravnica (CD everywhere) set than in a more traditional (CC or DD) set where people want to use those cards.
Now, as far as people here having a complete set already...? It wouldn't matter from WotC's perspective how they release the information. From the sudden yet overwhelming deluge of cards that have been coming out, it is clear that a leak has occurred somewhere in the process. Silly stories won't protect those who leak the information (which, in this case, includes Hydrokinesis etc.).
Just realize that anyone who leaks information (or assists in the leaking of information) is playing with fire. To my knowledge, R_E has not commented once in any of the 'rumored' threads for FS, and for good reason. He is clearly well aware of what can be at stake.
I figure that either a leak has occurred, and WotC will do everything in their power to find that leak (and, if this is the case, I suggest Hydrokinesis et al. cooperate in locating it), or WotC is taking the opportunity presented with FS to send a lot of false information. FS would be one of the few opportunities WotC has to do this, as one cannot necessarily find trends among the futureshifted cards, due to their nature.
As always, caveat emptor.
*facepalm*
Someone doesn't understand what is and isn't kosher around these parts.
Almost every set, we have someone who got product early somehow and gets up tons of scans for us.
CoKspoiler did this for several sets in a row, a french site did this for Time Spiral. (mass amounts of scans were uploaded, and WoTC did get them as they were easily located)
Considering the Tarmo partial scan, it can only be assumed that is the nature of the information we are getting, which does not qualify as a 'leak' as the person involved is not violating NDAs or anything, some distributor just messed up and sent product out way way early.
R_E has been posting on these threads, but only to discuss them 'should they be real' as he has no way of knowing one way or the other.
WoTC does not send out false information, and they never will. All the cards on the spoiler right now are based on solid information.
To make this thread a lil' more juicy...
Yes, Akroma's Memorial is as expected...and in the spoiler now.
Akroma's Memorial
Legendary Artifact
Creatures you control gain flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, protection from black, and protection from red.
"No Rest. No Mercy. No matter what."
-Memorial inscription.
WoTC does not send out false information, and they never will. All the cards on the spoiler right now are based on solid information.
To make this thread a lil' more juicy...
Yes, Akroma's Memorial is as expected...and in the spoiler now.
Akroma's Memorial
Legendary Artifact
Creatures you control gain flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, protection from black, and protection from red.
"No Rest. No Mercy. No matter what."
-Memorial inscription.
Sending out false info is not a common practice of decent buisness organizations. Governments, however, are entirely different matter.
I am glad to see this artifact comes back on the spoiler. At one less cost of the Akromas, nice.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
Nimbus Maze (Futureshifted)
Land (R)
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool...
Tap: Add U to your mana pool. play this ability only if you control a Plains.
Tap: Add W to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control an Island.
If that's accurate, it looks pretty good. It taps for colourless but that will hardly ever be used, imo. The land is best dropped on turn 3 or 4, when it acts as a dual land with no drawbacks. On turn 1, it might as well come into play tapped, unless you're playing a WU deck that runs 1cc artifacts. Turn 2, it might fix your mana, or it might not, depending what you played first turn. It's not EVER going to allow you to get WW or UU in your mana pool, though. But from turn 3 on, it fixes your mana with no drawback.
It'd be great for casting spells that cost WU, like Azorius First-Wing, though.
I too wonder if it's going to appear along with the other 4 (or 9?) cards in the cycle, someday. I guess we won't know unless it happens.
To my knowledge, R_E has not commented once in any of the 'rumored' threads for FS, and for good reason. He is clearly well aware of what can be at stake.
I've commented on all the threads, but I no longer make guesses (educated or otherwise) on if the rumoured information is real or not. I just comment on the information "if it's real and accurate". I have no knowledge about upcoming sets any more than you do. I moderate here, I comment on rumours from a card design standpoint, and I critique the hell out of honest to goodness public information like cards leaked in magazines or official websites.
Turn 2, it might fix your mana, or it might not, depending what you played first turn. It's not EVER going to allow you to get WW or UU in your mana pool, though.
Why can't you play Hallowed Fountain on turn 1 and have UU or WW available on turn 2?
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When you can no longer run, you crawl. And when you can no longer do that, you find someone to carry you.
Why can't you play Hallowed Fountain on turn 1 and have UU or WW available on turn 2?
That's true. With a WU dual land, it works. But if you're playing real dual lands, you probably don't need these... I was talking about using them with regular lands, to discuss how they would work as mana fixers.
Yes, two dual lands together can get you UU or WW. I should hope so!
If there are 12 lands as suspected, then I can account for 11 of them.
5 of the lands are the Rav Keyworded Cycle.
5 of the lands are 'new' duals, which won't all look alike.
1 of the lands will do something green, as we got Flagstones, Urborg, Kher Keep, and Academy Ruins in the past. This is assuming they don't count Pendelhaven as the green one, but that would break the rule of three because they printed a special mono land in the first two sets.
That leaves 1 land, and the new City of Brass is just a good a guess as anything else I could come up with.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
tainted field is much better, and other tainted stuff. not really impressed. plus its rare, and tainted field is uncommon. booooo. cool that its future shifted
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I'm in concordance with the folks saying that since this is futureshifted there won't actually be a cycle of them. That's exciting to me since that means they can have one of this kind and one fetch land. It'd be cool to have a non-cycle cycle of duals for once. (Or cycle of 10)
If it's friendly only then the White Green fetch land could be the gain life land. They could make 10 though and have an enemy comes into play tapped land (since they're over due for an Invasion-esque cycle of CIPT enemy duals)
I really don't like this card though. I can't put my finger on it but I just don't like it.
That's true. With a WU dual land, it works. But if you're playing real dual lands, you probably don't need these... I was talking about using them with regular lands, to discuss how they would work as mana fixers.
Yes, two dual lands together can get you UU or WW. I should hope so!
I'd choose 4 Hallowed Fountains and 4 Nimbus Mazes over 4 Hallowed Fountains and 4 Adarkar Wastes.
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That's true. With a WU dual land, it works. But if you're playing real dual lands, you probably don't need these...
I'm not sure... many UW control decks need WW and UU to cast spells (and even 2UUU for Teferi). I already play Tundras next to my Hallowed Fountains... This new card plus Hallowed Fountain side by side seem like a natural fit to me.
-----
I like Nimbus Maze a lot... I always like multicolored lands, as I prefer multicolored decks over monocolored ones. I had hoped, however, that the next set of multicolor lands would be uncommon, not rare. I'm lucky enough to have Tundras and could trade for playsets of Hallowed Fountains, Sacred Foundries and Steam Vents, but I really think good color fixing lands should be available to all players easily.
"You know that a conjurer gets no credit once he has explained his trick; and if I show you too much of my method of working, you will come to the conclusion that I am a very ordinary individual after all." - Sherlock Holmes
I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be a cycle of these lands. As far as I know, all the information on Future-shifted cards has been that keyword abilities will limited to one or two cards each. These don't have any sort of keyword, so they very well could be part of a cycle.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be a cycle of these lands. As far as I know, all the information on Future-shifted cards has been that keyword abilities will limited to one or two cards each. These don't have any sort of keyword, so they very well could be part of a cycle.
Because this thing is more than likely future-shifted, and Wizards has confirmed that anything future-shifted has only 1 of each type, thus this cannot be a cycle of all the same type of lands. There will be 4-5 more new types of duals in this set, if my math is correct.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
My money goes on all of them having the same type of ability. It would be a bad move to print an incongruent cycle of dual lands. One color combination would wind up with a vastly underpowered version while another pair would get something horribly over-efficient, and that's just not healthy for the game.
EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
You guys may be right, as I rechecked MaRo's article. It gave the impression that the mechanics were to only be used once, but he didn't actually say that, and being the tricky SoB he is, there will probably be duplicates of some of the mechanics/abilities.
Anyways, I still believe that they use a different ability on each land. Either that, or they print 5 of these lands, plus one gainland plus the green land, plus the keyworded lands to make 12.
The one gainland could be like City of Brass.
That's just a scenario, but I am still going with the original theory that there will be more than 1 type of new dual.
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Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Quote from oranges2 »
This guy, would either eat up several turns worth of mana to get a slow permanent that relies on your already have some board presence (after wasting said mana), or dies without generating any advantage.
They will be the same, the grandeur legend cycle is already existant proving that a single mechanic future shifted cycle is possible. Making 5 different types of duals which are balanced(or close to) is a very hard task and would eat away to much potential design space even for a future based set.
That's cool then. While less exciting (especially considering the land they previewed) I guess it's technically "better" to have a full cycle of one kind of dual rather than 5 parts of 5 cycles :(.
I guess the Black ones will be really popular because of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Now, as far as people here having a complete set already...? It wouldn't matter from WotC's perspective how they release the information. From the sudden yet overwhelming deluge of cards that have been coming out, it is clear that a leak has occurred somewhere in the process. Silly stories won't protect those who leak the information (which, in this case, includes Hydrokinesis etc.).
Just realize that anyone who leaks information (or assists in the leaking of information) is playing with fire. To my knowledge, R_E has not commented once in any of the 'rumored' threads for FS, and for good reason. He is clearly well aware of what can be at stake.
I figure that either a leak has occurred, and WotC will do everything in their power to find that leak (and, if this is the case, I suggest Hydrokinesis et al. cooperate in locating it), or WotC is taking the opportunity presented with FS to send a lot of false information. FS would be one of the few opportunities WotC has to do this, as one cannot necessarily find trends among the futureshifted cards, due to their nature.
As always, caveat emptor.
Edit: WoTC is perfectly aware of whats going on. MaRo reads our site regularly by his own admission, and in the past when things go wrong we have ALWAYS gotten a cease order withing the hour. The issue has never been with normal spoilers the few weeks before launch; Its the same thing WoTC itself does. The issue has always been about leaks months and months in advance.
Awesome, awesome land.
As for the comment about the land, I feel that Ravnica block should have had these lands. You wouldn't have seen as many 'gowildcrazy' multicolor decks if these were the duals.
Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded.
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Here's the fact: there are leaks for every set. Too many people have access to Magic information for each set, and enough of them receive comprehensive information that individual cards can't be traced back to them.
Wizards doesn't want this to happen, but it's simply not worthwhile for them to pursue action in most cases: the cost would be immense to chase after every one of these leaks, every time a new set was released. The result is that, as long as they start late (within the last few weeks before the pre-release) and are small (don't leak the entire set all at once) they're going to be overlooked.
The reason R_E got in trouble is because that leak involved information about a future block, and one which was not yet finalized. This isn't a comparable situation.
Speaking of playing with fire: that's a HUGE mess for Wizards to get into. If they want to actually maintain their position that leaks are bad, they need to stay out of the process. Feeding disinformation out to people makes it harder for them to make the claim "this is happening without our knowledge," if it ever comes down to it.
R_E got in trouble because MaRo is a control freak and got upset because he wanted purples to be a surprise.
In regard to the card at hand: I'd like for them to complete the cycle of Tainted lands, but that would require 16 more cards, so it'll probably never happen.
*facepalm*
Someone doesn't understand what is and isn't kosher around these parts.
Almost every set, we have someone who got product early somehow and gets up tons of scans for us.
CoKspoiler did this for several sets in a row, a french site did this for Time Spiral. (mass amounts of scans were uploaded, and WoTC did get them as they were easily located)
Considering the Tarmo partial scan, it can only be assumed that is the nature of the information we are getting, which does not qualify as a 'leak' as the person involved is not violating NDAs or anything, some distributor just messed up and sent product out way way early.
R_E has been posting on these threads, but only to discuss them 'should they be real' as he has no way of knowing one way or the other.
WoTC does not send out false information, and they never will. All the cards on the spoiler right now are based on solid information.
To make this thread a lil' more juicy...
Yes, Akroma's Memorial is as expected...and in the spoiler now.
Akroma's Memorial
Legendary Artifact
Creatures you control gain flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, protection from black, and protection from red.
"No Rest. No Mercy. No matter what."
-Memorial inscription.
Twitter
Sending out false info is not a common practice of decent buisness organizations. Governments, however, are entirely different matter.
I am glad to see this artifact comes back on the spoiler. At one less cost of the Akromas, nice.
:symr::symu: Reality Bites
:symr::symu: Delver Cyclops
:symr::symu: Niv Control EDH
:symg::symw: Sigarda EDH
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
—Venser[/card]
Land (R)
Tap: Add 1 to your mana pool...
Tap: Add U to your mana pool. play this ability only if you control a Plains.
Tap: Add W to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control an Island.
If that's accurate, it looks pretty good. It taps for colourless but that will hardly ever be used, imo. The land is best dropped on turn 3 or 4, when it acts as a dual land with no drawbacks. On turn 1, it might as well come into play tapped, unless you're playing a WU deck that runs 1cc artifacts. Turn 2, it might fix your mana, or it might not, depending what you played first turn. It's not EVER going to allow you to get WW or UU in your mana pool, though. But from turn 3 on, it fixes your mana with no drawback.
It'd be great for casting spells that cost WU, like Azorius First-Wing, though.
I too wonder if it's going to appear along with the other 4 (or 9?) cards in the cycle, someday. I guess we won't know unless it happens.
I've commented on all the threads, but I no longer make guesses (educated or otherwise) on if the rumoured information is real or not. I just comment on the information "if it's real and accurate". I have no knowledge about upcoming sets any more than you do. I moderate here, I comment on rumours from a card design standpoint, and I critique the hell out of honest to goodness public information like cards leaked in magazines or official websites.
.
Why can't you play Hallowed Fountain on turn 1 and have UU or WW available on turn 2?
That's true. With a WU dual land, it works. But if you're playing real dual lands, you probably don't need these... I was talking about using them with regular lands, to discuss how they would work as mana fixers.
Yes, two dual lands together can get you UU or WW. I should hope so!
.
5 of the lands are the Rav Keyworded Cycle.
5 of the lands are 'new' duals, which won't all look alike.
1 of the lands will do something green, as we got Flagstones, Urborg, Kher Keep, and Academy Ruins in the past. This is assuming they don't count Pendelhaven as the green one, but that would break the rule of three because they printed a special mono land in the first two sets.
That leaves 1 land, and the new City of Brass is just a good a guess as anything else I could come up with.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
If it's friendly only then the White Green fetch land could be the gain life land. They could make 10 though and have an enemy comes into play tapped land (since they're over due for an Invasion-esque cycle of CIPT enemy duals)
I really don't like this card though. I can't put my finger on it but I just don't like it.
I'd choose 4 Hallowed Fountains and 4 Nimbus Mazes over 4 Hallowed Fountains and 4 Adarkar Wastes.
Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded.
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I'm not sure... many UW control decks need WW and UU to cast spells (and even 2UUU for Teferi). I already play Tundras next to my Hallowed Fountains... This new card plus Hallowed Fountain side by side seem like a natural fit to me.
-----
I like Nimbus Maze a lot... I always like multicolored lands, as I prefer multicolored decks over monocolored ones. I had hoped, however, that the next set of multicolor lands would be uncommon, not rare. I'm lucky enough to have Tundras and could trade for playsets of Hallowed Fountains, Sacred Foundries and Steam Vents, but I really think good color fixing lands should be available to all players easily.
Because this thing is more than likely future-shifted, and Wizards has confirmed that anything future-shifted has only 1 of each type, thus this cannot be a cycle of all the same type of lands. There will be 4-5 more new types of duals in this set, if my math is correct.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Anyways, I still believe that they use a different ability on each land. Either that, or they print 5 of these lands, plus one gainland plus the green land, plus the keyworded lands to make 12.
The one gainland could be like City of Brass.
That's just a scenario, but I am still going with the original theory that there will be more than 1 type of new dual.
Rules Advisor as of 4/23/10
Regarding Stoneforge Mystic
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
I didn't know those were futureshifted.
That's cool then. While less exciting (especially considering the land they previewed) I guess it's technically "better" to have a full cycle of one kind of dual rather than 5 parts of 5 cycles :(.
I guess the Black ones will be really popular because of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.