I don't know if it has been said yet or not, but I think that some of the cards for the tribes will be using the hybrid mana. I remember reading something, back when Time Spiral was firist out, on the magic website..
Yeah, I'd LOVE to see the guild mana back in action. There's more that could be done with it. Besides, it's great for design and looks sweet too.
I don't know if it has been said yet or not, but I think that some of the cards for the tribes will be using the hybrid mana. I remember reading something, back when Time Spiral was firist out, on the magic website about the reapperance of the hybrid mana and it never showed up during the TSB and may be showing up here. It will allow the Merfolk be both U/W, the Elves to be both B/G, the Boggarts to be both B/R, and so on and so forth without making it feel too much like Rav.
Future Sight begs to differ, though granted it's not much.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Nah, Llanowar Elves IIRC are lawful neutral. They don't enjoy breaking your bones, but they'll do it if you break their laws.
Most green things are neutral-aligned... most druids are True Neutral... they'll do whatever benefits their grove. But if the have a strict set of laws (ala Llanowar Elves) then that'd take them to Lawful Neutral, which is the general alignment of soldiers. They kill because they're following orders.
Lawful Evil is more Orzhov.
There was an ask wizards that asked something about how all the guilds would fit into the AD&D Alignment System. White = Good, Blue = Lawful, Red = Chaotic, Black = Evil, and Green = Neutral. So for an example: Azorious would be Lawful Good, Golgari Neutral Evil, and Gruul would be Chaotic Neutral. They said it worked pretty good except for Boros (not really Chaotic Good), and Orzhov and Izzet had some problems since they were Good/Evil and Chaotic/Lawful.
Though speaking of AD&D the Ravnica guilds always reminded me of the Factions from the Planescape campaign setting.
Slightly more on topic, Killer rabbits always make me thing of Monty Python, or Bunucula.
And even more back on topic, hybrid mana would be a great idea for allowing tribal decks more variety by allowing the option to splash colors or not instead of forcing you to splash colors with multicolor (gold) spells. Better yet it could be tied to both race and job. A Kithkin Mage or Merrow Soldier could both be :symwu:, and A Flamekin Cleric could be or :symrw:.
With spells it could help spells work across tribes. A spell that has a hybrid cost could be a "Tribal - Elf Merfolk", so it would work for both tribes.
I hate really hate every iconic creature type that abadons it's colour. Like Festering Goblin. And multicolour tribal like the cycles of Invasion block with the Merfolk Elf and others, once and never again please. But everybody just simply loves the fact that Wizards don't care about this, cus being consistent is hard if money is at stake. Pfff. Getting tired of this all the time, I am conservative, let Magic be too please.
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hey i have managed to evolve my axolotls by feeding them thyroid glands the thyroxine contained in these gland is enough to change these water dwelling creatures into land based creatures
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
I hate really hate every iconic creature type that abadons it's colour. Like Festering Goblin. And multicolour tribal like the cycles of Invasion block with the Merfolk Elf and others, once and never again please. But everybody just simply loves the fact that Wizards don't care about this, cus being consistent is hard if money is at stake. Pfff. Getting tired of this all the time, I am conservative, let Magic be too please.
Why be conservative, when you can be imaginative instead, you know so the game is actually fun. I also find it nigh-impossible to believe that after thousands upon thousands of generations, countless conflicts and more apocalypses then the uncanny X-men every elf ever born still agrees whole heatedly with the green philosophy. I have yet to find a family of 4 that all agree to the same philosophy, yet an entire nation has kept the same philosophy forever?
I know everyone's hopped up on Flame-kins, but let's not forget there were Root-Kins (Cytoplast Root-Kin and Root-Kin Ally) in Ravnica as well... there will likely be Kins of each color, especially given what we know of the precon.
While I dont think having humans being the most populous tribe is right, I like it when there are some humans
Makes it less alien I guess.
I like old school, White has Humans in numbers the rest as druids/Wizards in small numbers.
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Why be conservative, when you can be imaginative instead, you know so the game is actually fun. I also find it nigh-impossible to believe that after thousands upon thousands of generations, countless conflicts and more apocalypses then the uncanny X-men every elf ever born still agrees whole heatedly with the green philosophy. I have yet to find a family of 4 that all agree to the same philosophy, yet an entire nation has kept the same philosophy forever?
You have yet to find a family, well that family is elves. Why do you always need an example of something? Just let elves always be green, let goblin always be red, let merfolk always be blue. Why would you chance this? An elf is adapted to the forest, what the would he do on a mountain. How can a Elf Merfolk develop? Did they have sex? I don't know how the biology is in Magic, but my biological study says it's impossible for something like that. But hea, allright, that's magic perhaps.
Still what's the point of having a black elf? It would have fear or something and blabla, well, I know a couple of Zombies which have it too, why don't play those?
How can you say when I having fun? You can't decide for me to be having fun, okay. Look, I have fun when I play a mono coloured deck. You don't have to think and you cast your spells all the way. Other players love multicolour decks, that's allright, but not for tribal!!!! Tribal is my most favourite type of Magic, Monocolour too, so how can you possibly say that it's fun for ME to play multicoloured tribal?
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hey i have managed to evolve my axolotls by feeding them thyroid glands the thyroxine contained in these gland is enough to change these water dwelling creatures into land based creatures
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
There was an ask wizards that asked something about how all the guilds would fit into the AD&D Alignment System. White = Good, Blue = Lawful, Red = Chaotic, Black = Evil, and Green = Neutral. So for an example: Azorious would be Lawful Good, Golgari Neutral Evil, and Gruul would be Chaotic Neutral. They said it worked pretty good except for Boros (not really Chaotic Good), and Orzhov and Izzet had some problems since they were Good/Evil and Chaotic/Lawful.
. . . But the Grand Arbiter was a bad guy. Lawful Evil, or some such.
For what it's worth, I thought Orzhov was Lawful Evil and Izzet was Chaotic Neutral. Of course, that meant they shared an alignment with Dimir and Gruul respectively, but I didn't mind.
Merrow: mentions that the Fae and the Merrow could be "split" color wise, as the elves are...no specific info though. Lorwyn has no oceans...just an elaborate network of hubs, channels that connect rivers, cisterns, etc. This creates a worldwide trading network that the Merrow use. They are mostly the merchants and diplomats of Lorwyn.
Where do all the rivers flow if there are no oceans?
How can Lorwyn be so fertile if there is no evaporation from the oceans to produce rain clouds?
What about all the nutrition washed out in the rivers?
. . . But the Grand Arbiter was a bad guy. Lawful Evil, or some such.
For what it's worth, I thought Orzhov was Lawful Evil and Izzet was Chaotic Neutral. Of course, that meant they shared an alignment with Dimir and Gruul respectively, but I didn't mind.
I did not know the grand arbiter was evil.
I was just passing along what I read. Overall the color wheel and the alignment system don't really convert well.
Where do all the rivers flow if there are no oceans?
How can Lorwyn be so fertile if there is no evaporation from the oceans to produce rain clouds?
What about all the nutrition washed out in the rivers?
I don't understand
I think we are going to have to suspend disbelief for this one. The name of the game is Magic after all.
I could never figure out the following questions about planes:
What stopped all the water in Rath or Serra's Realm from going over the edges? Wouldn't both places be complete deserts?
What keeps that upside-down mountain on Mercadia up?
Wouldn't he high metal content on Mirrodin poison any settlers there?
If Ravnica was almost all City, where do natural weather systems come from? Does it rain?
Compared to that Lorwyn seems almost normal. Maybe the rivers are all fed by underground springs.
Where do all the rivers flow if there are no oceans?
How can Lorwyn be so fertile if there is no evaporation from the oceans to produce rain clouds?
What about all the nutrition washed out in the rivers?
I don't understand
Well a lot of rivers, creeks, and such would be considered natural irrigation. There are probably quite a few underground aquifers as well. And depending on the size of the plane, you might not need oceans. Life might be sustained by a few large lakes
You have yet to find a family, well that family is elves. Why do you always need an example of something? Just let elves always be green, let goblin always be red, let merfolk always be blue. Why would you chance this? An elf is adapted to the forest, what the would he do on a mountain. How can a Elf Merfolk develop? Did they have sex? I don't know how the biology is in Magic, but my biological study says it's impossible for something like that. But hea, allright, that's magic perhaps.
Well what about a forested mountain? A Taiga, perhaps? Or a swampy, flooded forest, aka Bayou? What would live in these places? Maybe red-aligned elves or green-aligned ogres in the first case and black-aligned elves or green-aligned horrors in the second. The five basic lands don't cover everything that occurs in nature, so I would expect that some environments will be a mix of types and therefore cause multicolored tribal members to exist. I think multicolored elves, dwarves, goblins, ogres, giants, merfolk, etc. make perfect sense. Take a goblin, train him as a disciplined soldier, and you get a RW goblin. In most of the cases we are discussing, the tribal members have a brain and freewill. An individual elf can decide that the study of magic is more important to her than preserving the forests, so she ends up as a UG elf wizard.
As far as dual racial types, this is pretty common in modern fantasy literature and games. When you factor magic into the equations these things become possible. If a merfolk wizard changed himself into an elf and then became intimate with an elf, why wouldn't the child be a merfolk elf?
Lastly, if you don't enjoy multicolored tribal, don't play it. Find the good monocolored tribal cards in Lorwyn and play those. Let the rest of us enjoy our GW elf soldiers and RB zombie shamans.
Well what about a forested mountain? A Taiga, perhaps? Or a swampy, flooded forest, aka Bayou? What would live in these places? Maybe red-aligned elves or green-aligned ogres in the first case and black-aligned elves or green-aligned horrors in the second. The five basic lands don't cover everything that occurs in nature, so I would expect that some environments will be a mix of types and therefore cause multicolored tribal members to exist. I think multicolored elves, dwarves, goblins, ogres, giants, merfolk, etc. make perfect sense. Take a goblin, train him as a disciplined soldier, and you get a RW goblin. In most of the cases we are discussing, the tribal members have a brain and freewill. An individual elf can decide that the study of magic is more important to her than preserving the forests, so she ends up as a UG elf wizard.
As far as dual racial types, this is pretty common in modern fantasy literature and games. When you factor magic into the equations these things become possible. If a merfolk wizard changed himself into an elf and then became intimate with an elf, why wouldn't the child be a merfolk elf?
Lastly, if you don't enjoy multicolored tribal, don't play it. Find the good monocolored tribal cards in Lorwyn and play those. Let the rest of us enjoy our GW elf soldiers and RB zombie shamans.
Cheers,
rant
Well, they should have made a creature type for each allied and enemey colour in Ravnica already. Just stupid they didn't do that. WU Birds, BR Ogres etc. I don't need to make up this stuff, it's R&D's. I'm the one to judge this, so are you. So multicolored dwarves, ogres and giants do make sense! But not for Goblins, Elves and Merfolk. They are an iconic tribe. One or two may
deviate, but not a whole or halve of the tribe! Hence the word iconic.
I allready said, a Elf Merfolk is possible, because Magic is a magical world. But I only said it's stupid. Magic or no magic. A Bird Lion or a Human Ogre is just stupid. Which also is possible if you follow the stupid Elf Merfolk guidelines.
Lastly, I don't enjoy mulicolored tribal. Frankly, I won't play it! I will find the good monocolored tribal cards and will play those. I will let you enjoy the stupid multicolored ones. But I won't stop complaining because they will make stupid cards like a black elf that will help green elves with a lordlike abiltie or something like that. It's is against the Iconic creature type, it's against monocolored, because they want you to play dual. So they make more money because you have to buy duallands. They break the rules to keep te game ''alive''. On some points, this game is allready dead.
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hey i have managed to evolve my axolotls by feeding them thyroid glands the thyroxine contained in these gland is enough to change these water dwelling creatures into land based creatures
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
Well, they should have made a creature type for each allied and enemey colour in Ravnica already. Just stupid they didn't do that. WU Birds, BR Ogres etc. I don't need to make up this stuff, it's R&D's. I'm the one to judge this, so are you. So multicolored dwarves, ogres and giants do make sense! But not for Goblins, Elves and Merfolk. They are an iconic tribe. One or two may
deviate, but not a whole or halve of the tribe! Hence the word iconic.
I allready said, a Elf Merfolk is possible, because Magic is a magical world. But I only said it's stupid. Magic or no magic. A Bird Lion or a Human Ogre is just stupid. Which also is possible if you follow the stupid Elf Merfolk guidelines.
Lastly, I don't enjoy mulicolored tribal. Frankly, I won't play it! I will find the good monocolored tribal cards and will play those. I will let you enjoy the stupid multicolored ones. But I won't stop complaining because they will make stupid cards like a black elf that will help green elves with a lordlike abiltie or something like that. It's is against the Iconic creature type, it's against monocolored, because they want you to play dual. So they make more money because you have to buy duallands. They break the rules to keep te game ''alive''. On some points, this game is allready dead.
Prepare for the shock of your life, but opinions contrary to yours are neither stupid nor bad, its just different. So because you want elves who mindlessly obey the green philosophy we can't have elves that think and therefore deviate from an arbitrarily decided norm? How can something be against "monocolored" I had no idea there were monocolored commandments, nobody tells me anything.
If green elves are iconic does that make WotC iconoclasts for making them "different" Uh oh something new again, quick run and hide.
Prepare for the shock of your life, but opinions contrary to yours are neither stupid nor bad, its just different. So because you want elves who mindlessly obey the green philosophy we can't have elves that think and therefore deviate from an arbitrarily decided norm? How can something be against "monocolored" I had no idea there were monocolored commandments, nobody tells me anything.
If green elves are iconic does that make WotC iconoclasts for making them "different" Uh oh something new again, quick run and hide.
No, it's not said it always should be green. But, it was like this like the beginning of Magic, with exeption of few perhaps, care. So this way you can say, elves are green and what was been said Elves are the iconic creature type of green. Well, I allready explained why it was iconic. Why break this rules?
New things aren't bad, but they must not destroy things from the past. Creating new things is not using old and put them in an other colour or something like that.
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hey i have managed to evolve my axolotls by feeding them thyroid glands the thyroxine contained in these gland is enough to change these water dwelling creatures into land based creatures
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
As Andrew Plotkin once said: "'You should not feel that' is always a warning sign. When those words come out of your mouth, it's time to step back. Someone does feel that way." So limmepie doesn't like color-mixing, and doesn't want to have more reasons to play multicolor? That's fine. As much as some of us may disagree, taste isn't universal.
Lastly, if you don't enjoy multicolored tribal, don't play it. Find the good monocolored tribal cards in Lorwyn and play those. Let the rest of us enjoy our GW elf soldiers and RB zombie shamans.
Sadly, it's not quite that simple. Consider Ravnica block: sure, Wizards wasn't forcing anyone to play multiplayer back then--except that as many as half the cards in any given booster required multiple colors just to cast or to get the most out of them. Players like limmepie may not have been "forced" to play multicolor, but since multicolor was such a huge part of the game, to not make use of those multicolor cards feels like a waste.
Let's say you bought a booster of Magic cards, and when you opened it, ten of the fifteen cards were actually Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. How would you feel about that? You'd probably be pretty mad--you didn't buy that booster to play Yu-Gi-Oh!, you bought it to play Magic.
It's the same thing, here. It's just that limmepie and Wizards of the Coast have different ideas about what Magic should be. This sucks for limmepie... but since Wizards wants to please as many players as possible, at least there's a chance that things might be different next block. And that's more likely if limmepie makes his complaints known.
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If your signature takes up more lines than your actual post does, you should fix one or both of them.
Elves should be green today because they were green yesterday? That is not the most compelling argument I have ever heard.
Besides elves were only made green because elves live in a forest and forests are the basic land of green, there wasn't some special deep meaning. In fact elves generally act White, because they believe in community and conformity and stuff like that.
Making BG elves does not make elf any less iconic, as most elves will still be green. Itsa pretty easy compromise. Most elves are green like you want them, and for those that want non-green elves they get the Golgari and whatever the ones in Lorwyn are called.
Instead of playing Magic, I recommend playing a Trading Card Game, so that when you open a pack and get a card you don't want, you can give it to someone who wants it for a card you want but don't have. Oh wait. I don't use G or W so when I open a booster pack and get a W card in it I feel the same way as he does when he finds a gold tribal card. Now since the G and W cards shouldn't be remove from booster packs to please me, why should the cards he doesn't like be removed to please him?
My only real problems with the idea of multicolored tribes is that 1) Ravnica is over. It won't even be in standard by the time Lorwyn rotates in. It seems really bad timing to try this out now. 2) If they wanted "darker" elves or whatever, well, green can be pretty "dark" on its own. Right now the colors are all mechanically strained (mainly due to Planar Chaos) but flavor-ly narrow. Green isn't just the color of tranquility and dryads dancing through meadows; remember the last time you lost in the woods at night. The natural world has always been the enemy of mankind. Dangerous elves are easy. You don't have to add black to make it seem evil.
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Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
Elves should be green today because they were green yesterday? That is not the most compelling argument I have ever heard.
Besides elves were only made green because elves live in a forest and forests are the basic land of green, there wasn't some special deep meaning. In fact elves generally act White, because they believe in community and conformity and stuff like that.
Making BG elves does not make elf any less iconic, as most elves will still be green. Itsa pretty easy compromise. Most elves are green like you want them, and for those that want non-green elves they get the Golgari and whatever the ones in Lorwyn are called.
Instead of playing Magic, I recommend playing a Trading Card Game, so that when you open a pack and get a card you don't want, you can give it to someone who wants it for a card you want but don't have. Oh wait. I don't use G or W so when I open a booster pack and get a W card in it I feel the same way as he does when he finds a gold tribal card. Now since the G and W cards shouldn't be remove from booster packs to please me, why should the cards he doesn't like be removed to please him?
I'd be careful saying something like "Elves act white". This is magic, and yes in the scheme of all things fantasy Elves tend to be goodly and we've come to associate that with white in the fantasy world (I'm not even going to touch racism here btw). However, in the world of Magic the Gathering, thats not how it works. White does not equal good, and Black does not equal evil even if it might look that way. Elves ARE green, yes in part because its a forest and in fantasy we associate Elves with the forest, but really the fact that we've identified them over the years as being green's "weenie" tribe means that they are in fact green. Similarily zombies for black, and goblins for red. Merfolk are traditionally blue, though thats changed a lot and white has been a few, but it looks like its going to be soldiers or kithkin.
Now, just because this is how Wizards has always done it does not mean its going to continue forever. Most likely though, when we speak of goblins, even if there is one block that has some BLUE goblins, we'll still think of them as red. Same thing, one block of black elves (btw Drow/Dark Elves are a huge part of fantasy settings before you go shouting blasphemy) we'll still think of Elves as green.
Personally, I'd like to see Dwarves be the tribe for red. Dwarves are cool, they drink, they kill things, they dig, what more can you want in a creature, hell they live in mountains too, seems appropriate to me!
Also, glad to see Merfolk returning, Vedalkins and Cephalids are terrible, I have no idea what they are. Merfolk live in the water, which is always near islands, which is what blue is known for, lets just use that. If a Merfolk can fly, we dont need it explained ... its Magic.
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EDH Decks:
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide) B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage) BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn) WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God) W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
I always wanted blue Drow. Instead of being Emo elves, they could be elves that decided that instead of letting things unfold naturally they would directly interfere and make better stuff. Get rejected by the "normal" elves and embrace a blue way of thinking.
"If I do go to heaven, I'll smack god across the face and tell him to get me a grilled-cheeses sandwhich and then say 'Yea what now god!? Say some'in! I dare you!' "
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Yeah, I'd LOVE to see the guild mana back in action. There's more that could be done with it. Besides, it's great for design and looks sweet too.
.
Future Sight begs to differ, though granted it's not much.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
There was an ask wizards that asked something about how all the guilds would fit into the AD&D Alignment System. White = Good, Blue = Lawful, Red = Chaotic, Black = Evil, and Green = Neutral. So for an example: Azorious would be Lawful Good, Golgari Neutral Evil, and Gruul would be Chaotic Neutral. They said it worked pretty good except for Boros (not really Chaotic Good), and Orzhov and Izzet had some problems since they were Good/Evil and Chaotic/Lawful.
Though speaking of AD&D the Ravnica guilds always reminded me of the Factions from the Planescape campaign setting.
Slightly more on topic, Killer rabbits always make me thing of Monty Python, or Bunucula.
And even more back on topic, hybrid mana would be a great idea for allowing tribal decks more variety by allowing the option to splash colors or not instead of forcing you to splash colors with multicolor (gold) spells. Better yet it could be tied to both race and job. A Kithkin Mage or Merrow Soldier could both be :symwu:, and A Flamekin Cleric could be or :symrw:.
With spells it could help spells work across tribes. A spell that has a hybrid cost could be a "Tribal - Elf Merfolk", so it would work for both tribes.
If all Lorwyn has to offer White is kithkin and merrow, I may just have to hibernate through it.
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
Why be conservative, when you can be imaginative instead, you know so the game is actually fun. I also find it nigh-impossible to believe that after thousands upon thousands of generations, countless conflicts and more apocalypses then the uncanny X-men every elf ever born still agrees whole heatedly with the green philosophy. I have yet to find a family of 4 that all agree to the same philosophy, yet an entire nation has kept the same philosophy forever?
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
Springjacks sound very rabbit-like to me...
Makes it less alien I guess.
I like old school, White has Humans in numbers the rest as druids/Wizards in small numbers.
You have yet to find a family, well that family is elves. Why do you always need an example of something? Just let elves always be green, let goblin always be red, let merfolk always be blue. Why would you chance this? An elf is adapted to the forest, what the would he do on a mountain. How can a Elf Merfolk develop? Did they have sex? I don't know how the biology is in Magic, but my biological study says it's impossible for something like that. But hea, allright, that's magic perhaps.
Still what's the point of having a black elf? It would have fear or something and blabla, well, I know a couple of Zombies which have it too, why don't play those?
How can you say when I having fun? You can't decide for me to be having fun, okay. Look, I have fun when I play a mono coloured deck. You don't have to think and you cast your spells all the way. Other players love multicolour decks, that's allright, but not for tribal!!!! Tribal is my most favourite type of Magic, Monocolour too, so how can you possibly say that it's fun for ME to play multicoloured tribal?
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
. . . But the Grand Arbiter was a bad guy. Lawful Evil, or some such.
For what it's worth, I thought Orzhov was Lawful Evil and Izzet was Chaotic Neutral. Of course, that meant they shared an alignment with Dimir and Gruul respectively, but I didn't mind.
Where do all the rivers flow if there are no oceans?
How can Lorwyn be so fertile if there is no evaporation from the oceans to produce rain clouds?
What about all the nutrition washed out in the rivers?
I don't understand
I did not know the grand arbiter was evil.
I was just passing along what I read. Overall the color wheel and the alignment system don't really convert well.
here's a link to the Ask Wizards Q&A:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/asksearchablearchive&term=alignment_
I think we are going to have to suspend disbelief for this one. The name of the game is Magic after all.
I could never figure out the following questions about planes:
What stopped all the water in Rath or Serra's Realm from going over the edges? Wouldn't both places be complete deserts?
What keeps that upside-down mountain on Mercadia up?
Wouldn't he high metal content on Mirrodin poison any settlers there?
If Ravnica was almost all City, where do natural weather systems come from? Does it rain?
Compared to that Lorwyn seems almost normal. Maybe the rivers are all fed by underground springs.
Well a lot of rivers, creeks, and such would be considered natural irrigation. There are probably quite a few underground aquifers as well. And depending on the size of the plane, you might not need oceans. Life might be sustained by a few large lakes
EDH:
Karn v3.0
Well what about a forested mountain? A Taiga, perhaps? Or a swampy, flooded forest, aka Bayou? What would live in these places? Maybe red-aligned elves or green-aligned ogres in the first case and black-aligned elves or green-aligned horrors in the second. The five basic lands don't cover everything that occurs in nature, so I would expect that some environments will be a mix of types and therefore cause multicolored tribal members to exist. I think multicolored elves, dwarves, goblins, ogres, giants, merfolk, etc. make perfect sense. Take a goblin, train him as a disciplined soldier, and you get a RW goblin. In most of the cases we are discussing, the tribal members have a brain and freewill. An individual elf can decide that the study of magic is more important to her than preserving the forests, so she ends up as a UG elf wizard.
As far as dual racial types, this is pretty common in modern fantasy literature and games. When you factor magic into the equations these things become possible. If a merfolk wizard changed himself into an elf and then became intimate with an elf, why wouldn't the child be a merfolk elf?
Lastly, if you don't enjoy multicolored tribal, don't play it. Find the good monocolored tribal cards in Lorwyn and play those. Let the rest of us enjoy our GW elf soldiers and RB zombie shamans.
Cheers,
rant
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Well, they should have made a creature type for each allied and enemey colour in Ravnica already. Just stupid they didn't do that. WU Birds, BR Ogres etc. I don't need to make up this stuff, it's R&D's. I'm the one to judge this, so are you. So multicolored dwarves, ogres and giants do make sense! But not for Goblins, Elves and Merfolk. They are an iconic tribe. One or two may
deviate, but not a whole or halve of the tribe! Hence the word iconic.
I allready said, a Elf Merfolk is possible, because Magic is a magical world. But I only said it's stupid. Magic or no magic. A Bird Lion or a Human Ogre is just stupid. Which also is possible if you follow the stupid Elf Merfolk guidelines.
Lastly, I don't enjoy mulicolored tribal. Frankly, I won't play it! I will find the good monocolored tribal cards and will play those. I will let you enjoy the stupid multicolored ones. But I won't stop complaining because they will make stupid cards like a black elf that will help green elves with a lordlike abiltie or something like that. It's is against the Iconic creature type, it's against monocolored, because they want you to play dual. So they make more money because you have to buy duallands. They break the rules to keep te game ''alive''. On some points, this game is allready dead.
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
Prepare for the shock of your life, but opinions contrary to yours are neither stupid nor bad, its just different. So because you want elves who mindlessly obey the green philosophy we can't have elves that think and therefore deviate from an arbitrarily decided norm? How can something be against "monocolored" I had no idea there were monocolored commandments, nobody tells me anything.
If green elves are iconic does that make WotC iconoclasts for making them "different" Uh oh something new again, quick run and hide.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
No, it's not said it always should be green. But, it was like this like the beginning of Magic, with exeption of few perhaps, care. So this way you can say, elves are green and what was been said Elves are the iconic creature type of green. Well, I allready explained why it was iconic. Why break this rules?
New things aren't bad, but they must not destroy things from the past. Creating new things is not using old and put them in an other colour or something like that.
Posted by: Tay Collins | January 20, 2010 6:45 AM
Tay, that's not evolution. It's metamorphosis. Evolution means descent with heritable modification – individuals cannot evolve, unless they're Pokemon.
Posted by: David Marjanović | January 20, 2010 8:55 AM
Sadly, it's not quite that simple. Consider Ravnica block: sure, Wizards wasn't forcing anyone to play multiplayer back then--except that as many as half the cards in any given booster required multiple colors just to cast or to get the most out of them. Players like limmepie may not have been "forced" to play multicolor, but since multicolor was such a huge part of the game, to not make use of those multicolor cards feels like a waste.
Let's say you bought a booster of Magic cards, and when you opened it, ten of the fifteen cards were actually Yu-Gi-Oh! cards. How would you feel about that? You'd probably be pretty mad--you didn't buy that booster to play Yu-Gi-Oh!, you bought it to play Magic.
It's the same thing, here. It's just that limmepie and Wizards of the Coast have different ideas about what Magic should be. This sucks for limmepie... but since Wizards wants to please as many players as possible, at least there's a chance that things might be different next block. And that's more likely if limmepie makes his complaints known.
Besides elves were only made green because elves live in a forest and forests are the basic land of green, there wasn't some special deep meaning. In fact elves generally act White, because they believe in community and conformity and stuff like that.
Making BG elves does not make elf any less iconic, as most elves will still be green. Itsa pretty easy compromise. Most elves are green like you want them, and for those that want non-green elves they get the Golgari and whatever the ones in Lorwyn are called.
Instead of playing Magic, I recommend playing a Trading Card Game, so that when you open a pack and get a card you don't want, you can give it to someone who wants it for a card you want but don't have. Oh wait. I don't use G or W so when I open a booster pack and get a W card in it I feel the same way as he does when he finds a gold tribal card. Now since the G and W cards shouldn't be remove from booster packs to please me, why should the cards he doesn't like be removed to please him?
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
Xantcha, Phyrexian Reject
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Tovolar, Howlpack Alpha
Pivlic, Orzhov Informant
Crixizix, Master Engineer
Feather, Boros Peacekeeper
Marisi Coilbreaker
O-Kagachi
Gix, Phyrexian Praetor
Karn, Father of Machines
Yawgmoth, Father of Machines
Serra, Mother of All Angels
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools
Leshrac the Nightwalker
Jeska, the Thrice-Touched
Elspeth Returned
Crucius the Mad
Taysir the Infinite
Urza's Head (Unglued!)
I'd be careful saying something like "Elves act white". This is magic, and yes in the scheme of all things fantasy Elves tend to be goodly and we've come to associate that with white in the fantasy world (I'm not even going to touch racism here btw). However, in the world of Magic the Gathering, thats not how it works. White does not equal good, and Black does not equal evil even if it might look that way. Elves ARE green, yes in part because its a forest and in fantasy we associate Elves with the forest, but really the fact that we've identified them over the years as being green's "weenie" tribe means that they are in fact green. Similarily zombies for black, and goblins for red. Merfolk are traditionally blue, though thats changed a lot and white has been a few, but it looks like its going to be soldiers or kithkin.
Now, just because this is how Wizards has always done it does not mean its going to continue forever. Most likely though, when we speak of goblins, even if there is one block that has some BLUE goblins, we'll still think of them as red. Same thing, one block of black elves (btw Drow/Dark Elves are a huge part of fantasy settings before you go shouting blasphemy) we'll still think of Elves as green.
Personally, I'd like to see Dwarves be the tribe for red. Dwarves are cool, they drink, they kill things, they dig, what more can you want in a creature, hell they live in mountains too, seems appropriate to me!
Also, glad to see Merfolk returning, Vedalkins and Cephalids are terrible, I have no idea what they are. Merfolk live in the water, which is always near islands, which is what blue is known for, lets just use that. If a Merfolk can fly, we dont need it explained ... its Magic.
UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
Edit: nevermind, it's readable when zoomed in.
Those elves sound great, just like woodelves suppose to be!
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