And that's what i meant. It was never meant to be "I still have doubts, but I'm keeping an open mind..." It just meant keep an open mind. People should really stop attacking/pouncing without careful consideration.
Was it wrong to wait for a scan?
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....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
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And that's what i meant. It was never meant to be "I still have doubts, but I'm keeping an open mind..." It just meant keep an open mind. People should really stop attacking/pouncing without careful consideration.
Was it wrong to wait for a scan?
People question scans too. I believe the Akroma ad was called a photoshop quite a few times, which was amusing.
He may or may not even be able to scan this, we will have to wait and see.
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News and spoiler contributor for GatheringMagic.com
And that we shall...It's human nature to question anything anyway.
Though I'd like to know if that mag is circulated in the US only...If it's circulated to retailers globally I might be able to see if shop owners i know here in the Philippines have em too.
.
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....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
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a) That Lorwyn is indeed Tribal themed.
b) That planeswalker is a new card type (though there's the prospect
wording to worry about-it's sort of saying "but WotC may have changed their mind" - but this pretty much says they are in)
c) Boggarts are indeed the goblins!?
d) Confirms the tribes we already know and adds in Treefolk and Giants
I've said this before, but here we go again. The presence of tribes does not indicate a tribal theme. Mirrodin had tribes (a dominant race for each color), but was clearly not a "Creature type" matters block. Saying that the presence of tribes means Lorwyn will be Tribal themed is somewhat akin to claiming the presence of artifacts in a set makes it artifact themed.
Ok, so its so small of a publication that no one but this guy out of the people that come here have heard of it, but Wizards gave them the nod to print the offical coming out of the new card type? You dont find that interesting?
It's a retail-oriented magazine that advertises new products to retailers; it consistently includes what we would consider "spoiler" information in its ads as an attempt to inform retailers of important "selling points" of future sets -- and thereby convince them to order more of said set. That's why last year there was an ad with a picture of Akroma and a tagline about profits -- that card appearing in the set was a guarantee that the set would sell well, so it was good for Wizards' bottom line to inform retailers of it.
Historically, something like half of our spoilers regarding upcoming set themes come either from such retailer ads, or from the retailer catalogs that describe the upcoming block's themes to them 3 months in advance so that they can order accurately.
ANd this guy only gave us 1 spoiler and 1 confirmation, I wouldnt really call that a rumor monger.
He also had a history of early information provision on the old MTGNews Rumor Mill that earned him a spot on the Rumor Mill Hero list. There's a reason we keep that list -- it's so we don't have to go through the same process of doubt every time a source that is confirmed as reliable reports somthing new.
Quote from zwan22482 »
Not keeping one IS.
So, you didn't deserve to be my example there: your first post in the thread pretty much accepted the truth of the ad info. Totally my bad.
Saying that the presence of tribes means Lorwyn will be Tribal themed is somewhat akin to claiming the presence of artifacts in a set makes it artifact themed.
I agree, but the ad does specifically say "the highly popular tribal theme," apparently.
Farbeit for me to nitpick (being already convinced planeswalkers are in), but I must point something out: "...the exciting prospect of a new card type: planeswalkers." is not proof nor confirmation of planeswalkers. The word "prospect" is not a guarantee, rather an expectation or prediction.
If this were true, we'd have the exact same line in the advertisement of every set from Future Sight on. Keeping in mind that this information is marketed specifically to retailers, why would it possibly be in WotC's best interest to just tease the people who are buying the most of their products with the obvious possibility that a set might contain Planeswalkers?
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Farbeit for me to nitpick (being already convinced planeswalkers are in), but I must point something out: "...the exciting prospect of a new card type: planeswalkers." is not proof nor confirmation of planeswalkers. The word "prospect" is not a guarantee, rather an expectation or prediction.
EDIT: Somewhat Sarnathed.
I think the word prospect is used more in a 'they are in the set but we dont know what they do' type way more than anything else.
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Generally, this is true, and something I try to push on the rumor mill, as people cry fake on EVERY thing that is posted.
But when it is something that is from a magazine, from someone who has posted things from that magazine before, (and met with much similar 'no this cant be true i dont believe it' type responses) keeping an open mind means 'willing to accept the truth of the situation' more than anything else.
There is nothing wrong with requesting more information (including a scan) from a source before considering it 100% etched in stone accurate. Even with information coming from a magazine. Remember the whole "Goblin Piledriver in Xth" debacle that occurred when Lotus Noir came out a few months back. A scan could've cleared that up in a second, but instead there was a 15+ page debate on French grammar and rumor-mongering.
Now, there is absolutely no reason to think the OP is lying to us, and he shouldn’t be accused of that unless someone comes up with something very compelling, but it's nice to be able to see the source of the rumor for ourselves, even if just see details that the OP may have missed.
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:mad1: "It's as true today as when I started adventuring: 'When in doubt, set something on fire.'" ~ Belkar:mad1:
I've said this before, but here we go again. The presence of tribes does not indicate a tribal theme. Mirrodin had tribes (a dominant race for each color), but was clearly not a "Creature type" matters block. Saying that the presence of tribes means Lorwyn will be Tribal themed is somewhat akin to claiming the presence of artifacts in a set makes it artifact themed.
Elves, goblins, merfolk, and the other powerful tribes of Magic clash in battle throughout the fantasy world of Lorwyn. The highly popular tribal theme has long been a favorite of veteran players and it makes deckbuilding easier for new customers.
This pretty much says tribal theme. Also at this point, where even in Inquest, the article focused on the races of Lorwyn pretty much suggest a tribal theme.
When Timespiral was about to come out, articles weren't focused on the creatures but in the aspect of post-apocalyptic Dominaria...
In Rav...the focus was the guild system and color pie...and yeah, the return of gold cards.
Good news! Right handed people live 9 years longer than their left handed counterparts!
....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
They can be alot of things, from new Frames for Legends to the Tribes in a Tribal theme to Planeswalkers, the Poster only confirms that something is coming in October.
Hell, it doesnt even mention Lorwyn, it could be some strange mini product for al we know.
I came in October; 26 years ago. WotC was just a little late in getting the word out.
On topic, it seems odd that Wizards would first release this information in this manner as it takes some of the punch away from the (assumed) Gen Con announcement. I'd imagine they would do everything they could do to keep it bottled up before then
(And to clarify, I'm not questioning validity; merely commenting about WotC)
Magazines have horrific lead times, especially ones that sell product to store-owners and buyers. (Look at how off Previews tends to be on release info for products).. if you want to sell a product that comes out in september, you need to get the ad or solicitation in a magazine/source in August. To get that magazine out in August, you need to start doing the work in July.
Given the history of the user providing the information, I have little reason to doubt the validity of this info.
And, Roger, Wizards is not first releasing that info in this source... this magaine probably doesn't even hit retailers for a couple of weeks yet (It's probably the Sept. issue of the magizine), as it has to be edited, printed, and prepared for distribution... and the leak of the info could have happened at any point in that chain. Heck, it could have even happend at the post office, for all we know. This info likely isn't intented to be seen for another few weeks..
"Tribal" is a new supertype, like snow, which will appear in certain blocks, but never be alone on a card.
Planeswalker is a new cardtype.
...The two are completely different.
Really. So then why does Tribal affect Tarmogoyf, but snowdoes not? If it's a supertype and not a type, then wouldn't an errata be necessary?
It's hard to argue that which is written in black and white with just speculation.
(The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
However, I would find it funny that it can easily both, and they wouldn't be a liars. The statement about introducing the first new card type would be true if you introduced one or two.
Interesting. Every color gets two tribes. Only W, R, and G get a tribe entirely to themselves, though.
I sure hope they prove that they can make tribal work this time around. It sucked hardcore last time around -- so let's hope this isn't nearly as monotonous.
Really. So then why does Tribal affect Tarmogoyf, but snowdoes not? If it's a supertype and not a type, then wouldn't an errata be necessary?
It's hard to argue that which is written in black and white with just speculation.
(The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
However, I would find it funny that it can easily both, and they wouldn't be a liars. The statement about introducing the first new card type would be true if you introduced one or two.
As has been said a hundred times before, it's a type that acts like a supertype. Because of the rules involved it HAS to be a type, but the flavor and use is entirely in line with other supertypes like Legendary and Snow.
In other words, you're both right, so shut up. It's a type. It's a supertype. Who cares.
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"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
Really. So then why does Tribal affect Tarmogoyf, but snowdoes not? If it's a supertype and not a type, then wouldn't an errata be necessary?
It's hard to argue that which is written in black and white with just speculation.
(The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
However, I would find it funny that it can easily both, and they wouldn't be a liars. The statement about introducing the first new card type would be true if you introduced one or two.
"Tribal" is not a supertype, it is a card type. There is a tremendous difference that people like Longblade often confuse.
In addition, Sweeney, citing reminder text on a card is not a legitimate source of information. Reminder text is irrelevant for anything other than a reminder, and checking the Oracle on Tarmogoyf, you will notice that it doesn't have the reminder text.
Note the following:
205.2. Types
205.2a The types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, sorcery, and tribal.
The supertypes are "legendary", "world", and "snow".
The difference comes in that if you change/replace the supertype on a card, it doesn't affect the type and vice versa.
For example, if you turn a "Snow Tribal Enchantment" permanent into a Land (somehow), it becomes a "Snow Land". Under Longblade's incorrect assessment, it would become a "Snow Tribal Land."
Edit:As has been said a hundred times before, it's a type that acts like a supertype. Because of the rules involved it HAS to be a type, but the flavor and use is entirely in line with other supertypes like Legendary and Snow.
In other words, you're both right, so shut up. It's a type. It's a supertype. Who cares.
Second giants could be R,W, or B so there isn't a particularly good way to decide what color(s) they are.
Third elementals are also a tribe.
Bah. Counting is ftw.
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"One skilled at battle takes a stand in the ground of no defeat
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
1) Tribal type was already introduced in FS, so it's not a lie if they said "introducting one new card type in Lorwyn," since Tribal was already introduced.
2) Tribal as a type is in no way new or exciting, so its not really worth mentioning in hype.
I don't know where people ever got the "one or the other" idea from.
And, Roger, Wizards is not first releasing that info in this source... this magaine probably doesn't even hit retailers for a couple of weeks yet (It's probably the Sept. issue of the magizine), as it has to be edited, printed, and prepared for distribution... and the leak of the info could have happened at any point in that chain. Heck, it could have even happend at the post office, for all we know. This info likely isn't intented to be seen for another few weeks..
Oh, I thought that the magazine had been released to a vendor already.
That makes more sense. I thought that they were essentially planning on building up to a big announcement; then someone looked at the advert and said "Oh yeah, looks great."
tribal seems a tiny bit redundant with evoke in the set...isnt evoke essentially a tribal instant/sorcery?
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Thanks Darthmonkey at Damnation Studios for the sig.
(experiencing technical difficulties. If I weren't busy and tired, your eyeballs would be exploding due to excess magnificence)
Thanks mchief111 for the avvy.
Hey, i just got an idea. There is a currently monthly magazine about tcg's ect. called GAME TRADER, they always have magic ads. Someone should look into that.
To continue with the off-topic direction that this thread seems to be going: I don't get how Tribal, as a card type, can ever work on its own. Unless they find a way to make a card with the type "tribal" and nothing else, it will only ever be a glorified supertype. Tribal plus any of the preexisting card types will work just fine, but what would a card that is only tribal do?
On topic: I see no reason to doubt OP. Planeswalker is "new" (curse you, Tarmogoyf), and has the potential to be very interesting. The other information was basically already known.
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According to the philosopher Ly Tin Wheedle, Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized. -- Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times
"My plans are ALWAYS practical! It's the laws of physics that get in the way of my success." Red Mage, 8-Bit Theater.
Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem - Science has no enemies but the ignorant
"Tribal" is not a supertype, it is a card type. There is a tremendous difference that people like Longblade often confuse.
In addition, Sweeney, citing reminder text on a card is not a legitimate source of information. Reminder text is irrelevant for anything other than a reminder, and checking the Oracle on Tarmogoyf, you will notice that it doesn't have the reminder text.
Note the following:
The supertypes are "legendary", "world", and "snow".
The difference comes in that if you change/replace the supertype on a card, it doesn't affect the type and vice versa.
For example, if you turn a "Snow Tribal Enchantment" permanent into a Land (somehow), it becomes a "Snow Land". Under Longblade's incorrect assessment, it would become a "Snow Tribal Land."
No
Thank you. All of this was far, far more helpful that the other replies on that matter, which sadly, is out of scope for the discussion anyways. But thank you for the clarification.
Zenogais is trustworthy, because he has brought us spoilers before
And besides: he's an listed Rumor Mill Hero!
Yup!
Quote from google »
GameBuyer focuses on a retailer’s question of, “What is the manufacturer doing to help move the product off my shelf?” Retailers.. want to know what kind of support a manufacturer is giving the product to help them make money. GameBuyer reaches those decision makers so you can tell them why they should give shelf space to your game!
So GameBuyer does still exist, and it's audience is retailers. That's why the quoted text talks about "the customer" and explains to retailers why Lorwyn will be a good set, and why they should stock lots of it.
Was it wrong to wait for a scan?
....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
People question scans too. I believe the Akroma ad was called a photoshop quite a few times, which was amusing.
He may or may not even be able to scan this, we will have to wait and see.
Twitter
Though I'd like to know if that mag is circulated in the US only...If it's circulated to retailers globally I might be able to see if shop owners i know here in the Philippines have em too.
.
....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
I've said this before, but here we go again. The presence of tribes does not indicate a tribal theme. Mirrodin had tribes (a dominant race for each color), but was clearly not a "Creature type" matters block. Saying that the presence of tribes means Lorwyn will be Tribal themed is somewhat akin to claiming the presence of artifacts in a set makes it artifact themed.
It's a retail-oriented magazine that advertises new products to retailers; it consistently includes what we would consider "spoiler" information in its ads as an attempt to inform retailers of important "selling points" of future sets -- and thereby convince them to order more of said set. That's why last year there was an ad with a picture of Akroma and a tagline about profits -- that card appearing in the set was a guarantee that the set would sell well, so it was good for Wizards' bottom line to inform retailers of it.
Historically, something like half of our spoilers regarding upcoming set themes come either from such retailer ads, or from the retailer catalogs that describe the upcoming block's themes to them 3 months in advance so that they can order accurately.
He also had a history of early information provision on the old MTGNews Rumor Mill that earned him a spot on the Rumor Mill Hero list. There's a reason we keep that list -- it's so we don't have to go through the same process of doubt every time a source that is confirmed as reliable reports somthing new.
So, you didn't deserve to be my example there: your first post in the thread pretty much accepted the truth of the ad info. Totally my bad.
I agree, but the ad does specifically say "the highly popular tribal theme," apparently.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
I think the word prospect is used more in a 'they are in the set but we dont know what they do' type way more than anything else.
Twitter
There is nothing wrong with requesting more information (including a scan) from a source before considering it 100% etched in stone accurate. Even with information coming from a magazine. Remember the whole "Goblin Piledriver in Xth" debacle that occurred when Lotus Noir came out a few months back. A scan could've cleared that up in a second, but instead there was a 15+ page debate on French grammar and rumor-mongering.
Now, there is absolutely no reason to think the OP is lying to us, and he shouldn’t be accused of that unless someone comes up with something very compelling, but it's nice to be able to see the source of the rumor for ourselves, even if just see details that the OP may have missed.
So i quote:
This pretty much says tribal theme. Also at this point, where even in Inquest, the article focused on the races of Lorwyn pretty much suggest a tribal theme.
When Timespiral was about to come out, articles weren't focused on the creatures but in the aspect of post-apocalyptic Dominaria...
In Rav...the focus was the guild system and color pie...and yeah, the return of gold cards.
....Wait, I'm a LEFTIE!!!
I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
I came in October; 26 years ago. WotC was just a little late in getting the word out.
On topic, it seems odd that Wizards would first release this information in this manner as it takes some of the punch away from the (assumed) Gen Con announcement. I'd imagine they would do everything they could do to keep it bottled up before then
(And to clarify, I'm not questioning validity; merely commenting about WotC)
"Tribal" is a new supertype, like snow, which will appear in certain blocks, but never be alone on a card.
Planeswalker is a new cardtype.
...The two are completely different.
Ah, good point. I hadn't read it that way, but I guess we could take it many ways if we wanted to split hairs.
Given the history of the user providing the information, I have little reason to doubt the validity of this info.
And, Roger, Wizards is not first releasing that info in this source... this magaine probably doesn't even hit retailers for a couple of weeks yet (It's probably the Sept. issue of the magizine), as it has to be edited, printed, and prepared for distribution... and the leak of the info could have happened at any point in that chain. Heck, it could have even happend at the post office, for all we know. This info likely isn't intented to be seen for another few weeks..
Really. So then why does Tribal affect Tarmogoyf, but snowdoes not? If it's a supertype and not a type, then wouldn't an errata be necessary?
It's hard to argue that which is written in black and white with just speculation.
(The card types are artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, planeswalker, sorcery, and tribal.)
However, I would find it funny that it can easily both, and they wouldn't be a liars. The statement about introducing the first new card type would be true if you introduced one or two.
Giants: R
Treefolk: G
Merrow (Merfolk): U/W
Fae (Faeries): U/G
Boggarts (Goblins): R/B
Elves: G/B
White: Kithkin / Merrow
Blue: Merrow / Fae
Black: Boggarts / Elves
Red: Giants / Boggarts
Green: Treefolk / Elves
Interesting. Every color gets two tribes. Only W, R, and G get a tribe entirely to themselves, though.
I sure hope they prove that they can make tribal work this time around. It sucked hardcore last time around -- so let's hope this isn't nearly as monotonous.
Edit: As has been said a hundred times before, it's a type that acts like a supertype. Because of the rules involved it HAS to be a type, but the flavor and use is entirely in line with other supertypes like Legendary and Snow.
In other words, you're both right, so shut up. It's a type. It's a supertype. Who cares.
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
In addition, Sweeney, citing reminder text on a card is not a legitimate source of information. Reminder text is irrelevant for anything other than a reminder, and checking the Oracle on Tarmogoyf, you will notice that it doesn't have the reminder text.
Note the following:
The supertypes are "legendary", "world", and "snow".
The difference comes in that if you change/replace the supertype on a card, it doesn't affect the type and vice versa.
For example, if you turn a "Snow Tribal Enchantment" permanent into a Land (somehow), it becomes a "Snow Land". Under Longblade's incorrect assessment, it would become a "Snow Tribal Land."
No
First off green gets three as seen above.
Second giants could be R,W, or B so there isn't a particularly good way to decide what color(s) they are.
Third elementals are also a tribe.
WUBRGWBGURW
UBRGWURWBGU
BRGWUBGURWB
RGWUBRWBGUR
GWUBRGURWBG
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
2) Tribal as a type is in no way new or exciting, so its not really worth mentioning in hype.
I don't know where people ever got the "one or the other" idea from.
Oh, I thought that the magazine had been released to a vendor already.
That makes more sense. I thought that they were essentially planning on building up to a big announcement; then someone looked at the advert and said "Oh yeah, looks great."
(experiencing technical difficulties. If I weren't busy and tired, your eyeballs would be exploding due to excess magnificence)
Thanks mchief111 for the avvy.
On topic: I see no reason to doubt OP. Planeswalker is "new" (curse you, Tarmogoyf), and has the potential to be very interesting. The other information was basically already known.
"My plans are ALWAYS practical! It's the laws of physics that get in the way of my success." Red Mage, 8-Bit Theater.
Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem - Science has no enemies but the ignorant
Thank you. All of this was far, far more helpful that the other replies on that matter, which sadly, is out of scope for the discussion anyways. But thank you for the clarification.
Yup!
So GameBuyer does still exist, and it's audience is retailers. That's why the quoted text talks about "the customer" and explains to retailers why Lorwyn will be a good set, and why they should stock lots of it.
.