Was this list preceded by something along the lines of "tribes in Lorwyn will include...", or "the tribes in Lorwyn are..."?
I'm just curious if we'll see RG, UR, BW, or UG tribes in this set, in the next set, in the next block, or not at all. I don't recall seeing any art that brings to mind any of these color pairs.
Hmmm... I still get strong Ravnica vibes. I like the premise and all, but something still feels a bit recycled.
Like the fact that it's a redux of Onslaught's tribal theme? Or how Tribal smacks of Spirit/Arcane, except vastly improved this time around? Not every set can be a snowflake you know, and I'd rather they borrow ideas from an awesome block like Ravnica or improve on old stuff that didn't work out the first time around than come up with something new that sucks. Also, people like multicolor-biased environments more than mono-colored ones.
Also, good, we have enough good Wraths in T2. A green one would be cool though.
It's not quite Ravnica-ish, in that not each tribe is spread across exactly two colors (Treefolk, for instance, are three colors), and not all ten two-color combinations are represented.
Gotta save some room for Morningtade and later, eh?
"Champion" is used to evoke a larger creature coming to the aid of a lesser one, protecting it.
We've seen the effect used plenty of times before, most notably with Wormfang Drake and its brethren, this is just a more flavorful take on it.
I suppose that works, personally I read it as the creature BECOMING a champion until they are defeated, at which point they return to the rank and file troops. I guess your explanation is probably simpler
Like the fact that it's a redux of Onslaught's tribal theme? Or how Tribal smacks of Spirit/Arcane, except vastly improved this time around? Not every set can be a snowflake you know, and I'd rather they borrow ideas from an awesome block like Ravnica or improve on old stuff that didn't work out the first time around than come up with something new that sucks. Also, people like multicolor-biased environments more than mono-colored ones.
Also, good, we have enough good Wraths in T2. A green one would be cool though.
As a green mage, I don't believe Green should get a wrath. What it should get is a cross between shaterstorm and tranquillity. Attached to a creature.
That being said... as a green mage, I am disappointed that they didn't make Fae blue/green, though understanding. Fae are supposed to be very tricky, and green is not a tricky color. Considder the wurm's tooth flavor text. Perhaps, though, Green should've gotten some fae? but then green, black and white would out tribe blue and red too much...
Anyway, there's only so much they can fit into one block.
You know what would be a fun tribe to do with kithkin and elves? Wraiths.
Seds, I'd be guessing something more along the lines of Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Patron Wizard, based on the "machine-like" tappage abuse. Something to give you a benefit to having more of them in play, and allowing you to tap the ones who don't have tap abilities.
I suppose that works, personally I read it as the creature BECOMING a champion until they are defeated, at which point they return to the rank and file troops. I guess your explanation is probably simpler
More to the point, Kirblar's explanation is what "champion" as a verb actually means.
Quote from dictionary.com »
champion
–verb (used with object)
6. to act as champion of; defend; support: to champion a cause.
Personally I like how they are making the 10 color pairs in Rav, going to TS Block and pushing Mono and Multi at the same time, Finish with the allied Future Duals in TS, shift to 10th with stuff like the Weavers pushing for allied color harmony and then bring out colored tribal in this Block. I am starting to like this thinking ahead to blend blocks better idea.
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Oh, they're be humans in the next block. They're all pour in from another plane, claim their new found home in the name of Urza, than proceed to enslave and/or breed with every tribe we see in the first block. (Sarcasm)
And now for a comment on topic: This set is shaping up better than Onslaught. But I still wish the goblins were something else other than goblins. Anyone else think they're have to weaken the goblin tribe just to avoid giving the present day goblins more toys to slaughter people with?
Elspeth "we must fight to protect order and justice!"
Tezzeret "No! he will break all my artifacts and stomp my head!"
Vol "powerful dragon must be brought to heel!"
Ajani "**** this Im outta *planeswalks to lorwyn* wow what hell is this place?"
Little lorwyn goblin "this be the place of bad art and Tribes!!!"
All other Alara planeswalkers "hey where did ajani go???"
Yes, because "All slivers have Poisonous 1" makes so much sense in a sentence, doesn't it? Keywords don't necessarily match english grammar rules.
This one does, though. See my previous post.
EDIT: They breed with EVERY tribe? That'd be awkward with the flame-kin...
though I did just get a futurama flashback "Why couldn't she be the kind of mermaid with the fish half on top?!"
That made me think of D&D. Typically, humans are second only to dragons when it comes to spawning weird hybrids. They have kids with other races, monsters, corporeal embodiments of abstract concepts from other dimensions - you name it, they nail it... and produce viable offspring with weird abilities and/or appendages.
I don't normally post here, I just read. But I feel the need to point out the signifficance of tribal spells, since a few people seemed skeptical. Most cards that refer to a creature type, like Goblin Warchief, now return to a card type. Just look at it in gatherer. "Goblin SPELLS cost you 1 less to play." Similarly, in a Timespiral block draft, one of my favorite tricks was using a rebel searcher to tutor up a Bound in Silence an use it on an opponent's creature. For those who debate the legality of it, read the rebel searchers. They say rebel card, not just rebel. Bound in silence is most assuredly a rebel card, and that's just a taste of what tribal will do for us, I'm sure.
Tribal is not narrow at all and will very likely see print in future blocks as well. Perhaps not all of them, but count on it to return.
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I don't normally post here, I just read. But I feel the need to point out the signifficance of tribal spells, since a few people seemed skeptical. Most cards that refer to a creature type, like Goblin Warchief, now return to a card type. Just look at it in gatherer. "Goblin SPELLS cost you 1 less to play." Similarly, in a Timespiral block draft, one of my favorite tricks was using a rebel searcher to tutor up a Bound in Silence an use it on an opponent's creature. For those who debate the legality of it, read the rebel searchers. They say rebel card, not just rebel. Bound in silence is most assuredly a rebel card, and that's just a taste of what tribal will do for us, I'm sure.
Tribal is not narrow at all and will very likely see print in future blocks as well. Perhaps not all of them, but count on it to return.
While you've got the end result right, your terminology is mixed up. "Rebels" is what they're called only when they're in play (that applies to Bound in Silence too), so Ramosian Sergeant would never have worked if it said to search your library for a rebel. They're called "rebel spells" while they're on the stack and "rebel cards" when they're in any other zone (with "permanent", as in "rebel permanent card", added if necessary to exclude sorceries and instants).
Anyway, everyone knows that's why Bound in Silence is a rebel card.
Champion seems awkward at first, but it has some cool interactions. Evoke means that there's going to be a lot of 187 creatures running around in the set, and Champion goes with that very well. I guess that still only works if evoke exists outside of Elementals or we get some Elemental champions, but it's still cool. The Galepowder makes also goes great with that.
And even treating Champion as purely a drawback, that guy has some nice stats. The idea of play him using a Llawnowar Elves on turn three championing the elves, and then beating your opponents with a 5/5 while summoning an army of 2/2s with deathtouch (unless you have something better to cast) is appealing.
And as I've said before, the key thing that tribal does is that it allows this to be a creature type block without being a creature block. Legions was not a very popular set, at least not in the tournament scene (lots of casual players loved it), and even in Onslaugh and Scourge, when the set wasn't all creatures, a huge number of the non-creature cards were creature oriented. Now the block can be less focuses on creatures in general while still focusing on creature types.
Also, Giants in White? Does this mean we might actually get a white creature with a power higher than 6? That's unusual. Giants seem much more like R/G to me, especially since green doesn't seem to have a big fatty race (treefolk don't quite count as fatties even though they're big, since they're very toughness oriented). It strikes me as odd that green gets two weenie creature types and a defensive one while white has giants, but oh well. We've already seen a 5/5 elf, and I'm sure we'll see some huge elementals at the very least, and we could get some non-tribal beasts, maybe Cervin or something. As long as there's no giant Kithkin. That would be scary.
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Also, Giants in White? Does this mean we might actually get a white creature with a power higher than 6? That's unusual. Giants seem much more like R/G to me, especially since green doesn't seem to have a big fatty race (treefolk don't quite count as fatties even though they're big, since they're very toughness oriented). It strikes me as odd that green gets two weenie creature types and a defensive one while white has giants, but oh well. We've already seen a 5/5 elf, and I'm sure we'll see some huge elementals at the very least, and we could get some non-tribal beasts, maybe Cervin or something. As long as there's no giant Kithkin. That would be scary.
will all be in standard to interact with their giant tribesmen.
White has always gotten the occasional (forgettable) giant.
Lorwyn is pushing the difference between Race and Class.
Onslaught blurred the line before it existed, pushing Goblins (race), Elves (race), Zombies (race), Clerics (class), and Wizards (class)...among others.
Usually I am sold on a set's idea before even knowing how it will be done. (The inquest info seems to dispel any ideas of having the tribes be guildlike)
I am slowly but surely liking the idea of a tribal block, and cards and information like this can only help.
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Good point above: Fodder Launch + Mogg War Marshall = GG.
As for the set in general, it should be interesting to see where the Champion ability goes; it could be powerful for saving creatures from Wrath effects, as well as further misusing CIP effects.
Fallow Sage is not the best, but it's great design on the part of Wizards.
2 Galepowders won't do much good if you opponent is creatureless.
W (5 tribes): Elementals, Giants, Kithkin, Merfolk, Treefolk
U (3 tribes): Elementals, Faeries, Merfolk
B (5 tribes): Elementals, Elves, Faeries, Goblins, Treefolk
R (3 tribes): Elementals, Giants, Goblins
G (4 tribes): Elementals, Elves, Kithkin, Treefolk
Hmm, the color balance is rather uneven, which is kind of strange.
I don't like how Faeries are U/B. They should be U/G.
It's not quite Ravnica-ish, in that not each tribe is spread across exactly two colors (Treefolk, for instance, are three colors), and not all ten two-color combinations are represented.
there's also Morningtide, which could easily expand the tribes into additional colors. Blue Faeries, Green Giants, and Black Merfolk could all be possible and still be well within the boundaries of flavor.
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Was this list preceded by something along the lines of "tribes in Lorwyn will include...", or "the tribes in Lorwyn are..."?
I'm just curious if we'll see RG, UR, BW, or UG tribes in this set, in the next set, in the next block, or not at all. I don't recall seeing any art that brings to mind any of these color pairs.
We've seen the effect used plenty of times before, most notably with Wormfang Drake and its brethren, this is just a more flavorful take on it.
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Like the fact that it's a redux of Onslaught's tribal theme? Or how Tribal smacks of Spirit/Arcane, except vastly improved this time around? Not every set can be a snowflake you know, and I'd rather they borrow ideas from an awesome block like Ravnica or improve on old stuff that didn't work out the first time around than come up with something new that sucks. Also, people like multicolor-biased environments more than mono-colored ones.
Also, good, we have enough good Wraths in T2. A green one would be cool though.
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I suppose that works, personally I read it as the creature BECOMING a champion until they are defeated, at which point they return to the rank and file troops. I guess your explanation is probably simpler
As a green mage, I don't believe Green should get a wrath. What it should get is a cross between shaterstorm and tranquillity. Attached to a creature.
That being said... as a green mage, I am disappointed that they didn't make Fae blue/green, though understanding. Fae are supposed to be very tricky, and green is not a tricky color. Considder the wurm's tooth flavor text. Perhaps, though, Green should've gotten some fae? but then green, black and white would out tribe blue and red too much...
Anyway, there's only so much they can fit into one block.
You know what would be a fun tribe to do with kithkin and elves? Wraiths.
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The trickster is the most obvious plant for block design, love that card to pieces.
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More to the point, Kirblar's explanation is what "champion" as a verb actually means.
Reading comprehension FTW!
Oh, they're be humans in the next block. They're all pour in from another plane, claim their new found home in the name of Urza, than proceed to enslave and/or breed with every tribe we see in the first block. (Sarcasm)
And now for a comment on topic: This set is shaping up better than Onslaught. But I still wish the goblins were something else other than goblins. Anyone else think they're have to weaken the goblin tribe just to avoid giving the present day goblins more toys to slaughter people with?
EDIT: They breed with EVERY tribe? That'd be awkward with the flame-kin...
though I did just get a futurama flashback "Why couldn't she be the kind of mermaid with the fish half on top?!"
What about the giants and some snoo-snoo action? They'll die with a smile on their face.
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This one does, though. See my previous post.
That made me think of D&D. Typically, humans are second only to dragons when it comes to spawning weird hybrids. They have kids with other races, monsters, corporeal embodiments of abstract concepts from other dimensions - you name it, they nail it... and produce viable offspring with weird abilities and/or appendages.
Now we better get this thread back on track before Seds kills us all.
It's been pretty obvious the boggarts were going to be goblins from the second we saw some boggart art. They LOOK like goblins
Tribal is not narrow at all and will very likely see print in future blocks as well. Perhaps not all of them, but count on it to return.
Well, that and triggering "whenever you play a <creature type> spell..." triggers.
Umm Tribal isn't any better or worse than spiritcraft.And im in the "Tribal is unneeded" group.
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While you've got the end result right, your terminology is mixed up. "Rebels" is what they're called only when they're in play (that applies to Bound in Silence too), so Ramosian Sergeant would never have worked if it said to search your library for a rebel. They're called "rebel spells" while they're on the stack and "rebel cards" when they're in any other zone (with "permanent", as in "rebel permanent card", added if necessary to exclude sorceries and instants).
Anyway, everyone knows that's why Bound in Silence is a rebel card.
And even treating Champion as purely a drawback, that guy has some nice stats. The idea of play him using a Llawnowar Elves on turn three championing the elves, and then beating your opponents with a 5/5 while summoning an army of 2/2s with deathtouch (unless you have something better to cast) is appealing.
And as I've said before, the key thing that tribal does is that it allows this to be a creature type block without being a creature block. Legions was not a very popular set, at least not in the tournament scene (lots of casual players loved it), and even in Onslaugh and Scourge, when the set wasn't all creatures, a huge number of the non-creature cards were creature oriented. Now the block can be less focuses on creatures in general while still focusing on creature types.
Also, Giants in White? Does this mean we might actually get a white creature with a power higher than 6? That's unusual. Giants seem much more like R/G to me, especially since green doesn't seem to have a big fatty race (treefolk don't quite count as fatties even though they're big, since they're very toughness oriented). It strikes me as odd that green gets two weenie creature types and a defensive one while white has giants, but oh well. We've already seen a 5/5 elf, and I'm sure we'll see some huge elementals at the very least, and we could get some non-tribal beasts, maybe Cervin or something. As long as there's no giant Kithkin. That would be scary.
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will all be in standard to interact with their giant tribesmen.
White has always gotten the occasional (forgettable) giant.
Lorwyn is pushing the difference between Race and Class.
Onslaught blurred the line before it existed, pushing Goblins (race), Elves (race), Zombies (race), Clerics (class), and Wizards (class)...among others.
Usually I am sold on a set's idea before even knowing how it will be done. (The inquest info seems to dispel any ideas of having the tribes be guildlike)
I am slowly but surely liking the idea of a tribal block, and cards and information like this can only help.
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As for the set in general, it should be interesting to see where the Champion ability goes; it could be powerful for saving creatures from Wrath effects, as well as further misusing CIP effects.
Fallow Sage is not the best, but it's great design on the part of Wizards.
2 Galepowders won't do much good if you opponent is creatureless.
there's also Morningtide, which could easily expand the tribes into additional colors. Blue Faeries, Green Giants, and Black Merfolk could all be possible and still be well within the boundaries of flavor.