The protection from all aura is beautiful and would be best friends with aggro if:
-Coalition Relic was not played in most control decks and has a cc of 3.
-It cost W instead of 1W
-If it could be played on a weenie, instead of Giant-Only
The counter is extremely fair. While you could enable some 187-hijinks, it is usually net tempo loss to return a creature to your hand, and of course counterspells are at their most powerful when they are aggressively costed for the beginning of the game. You need morphs or other blue creatures to pull it off with this one, further pushing the traditional draw-go strategy to sync up with creatures.
The portent is very strong, compare to Sleight of Hand for instace. If Dragonstorm weren't dead, it would run it. It digs deeper and allows for a re-shuffle which will often be better than automatically putting one card on the bottom.
The bone harvest is strong too, but I think it requires a specific deck. Very good limited card (like Recover).
I like the elemental engineer, and it does seem to fit Red better than the one in 5th dawn fit blue. Someone will have fun with their Gruul Groundbreaker decks, for sure.
The shapeshifter keyword is interesting, and agressively priced on a bear. You need a kithkin for that continuous ability? You got it. Need a merrow for that spell? A goblin to sacrifice? Very decent limited ability, with a possibility for constructed use if there are some good tribal cards. We'll need to see whether it is a direct descendant of Mistform Ultimus and has all those creature types even when not in play (for goblin graveyard spells, and tribal tutors).
As for grizzly ultimus, it seems kind of sad to me. This effect was a big deal, big enough to make legendary last time around. Now it's on (likely a common) a otherwise vanilla 2/2 for 2?
mistform ultimus is a otherwise vanilla 3/3 and was made a legend only because when it was made legend was a type and without it people would think it wasn't a legend and if it wasn't a legend it wouldn't be every type.
Wow, Aggromental might be possible in standard. Turn three Spectral Force is easy with that guy, and if there is a one mana elfamental, you can get a turn three Verdant Force.
You don't have to put it on a giant. If you did Bound in Silence would suck.
You don't have to put it on anything. Rather, you *can't* put in on anything. This isn't even comparable to Bound in Silence as that's an Aura, this is not (although you are correct, Bound in Silence and other Tribal Auras do not have to be put on creatures of their Tribal type.)
The cleaned up wording (as has already been posted) is:
Card Name [mana]1W[/ mana]
Tribal Enchantment - Giant
Creatures with the highest converted mana cost among all creatures in play have protection from all colors.
It's not like Emblem of the Warmind, which has to be on a creature. You can't put it on your opponent's creatures, so it goes away when you lose your creature. It's just a plain old global enchantment, that works whether there are creatures in play or not.
I like the card that lets you rearrange the top three cards of your library and then lets you draw a card. I've always thought cards that make you draw cards are especially good; if not only when drafting. I'm kind of sad that every creature can be a mistform ultimus now. And the fact that that creature is a 2/2 just obsoletes mistform ultimus completely. The other card that caught my attention was the new counterspell. I wonder if it's better than a cancel. I'm not so sure how many people will have space for monocolor though. Maybe when remand revolves out this card, people will want to play this card. Then again, they could always start playing delay.
I feel that the shapeshift guys will be very powerful in this set (at least in limited). Look at our soldier common. T3, you play a Grizzly bear, but it makes your guy a 3/2 First striker. You can also Champion these cards with anything, return them with the Warren Pilferer to give him haste, sac one to Fodder launch, tap it to Summon the School or pump your Battlewand Oak. Those are all interactions with this Grizzly bear with only cards that have been spoiled thusfar. Oh yeah, and it has deathtouch with the Packmaster out. :D:cool:
This is assuming that there are no better two-drops for the given Tribe. It's imagineable for giant, since I'd assume they're expensive, but I would believe that there have to be better Boggarts than 1B for a vanilla 2/2.
The only thing that sticks out as suspect is the keyword 'shapeshift'. I mean, really, how often is that keyword going to be used?
However, to the people who claimed that Mistform Ultimus was made legendary as a drawback, I just want to point out that that isn't so. At the time of Ultimus's printing Legend was still a creature type, meaning even if they didn't list it's type as "Illusion Legend" it would still count as a Legend and have the rules of a Legend and so they felt it was worth avoiding the headache that would involve by listing it up front. Had they not, there would have been some unhappy situations where someone plays a second Ultimus just to see it die to the Legendary rule.
Basically, my point is, don't consider the legendary drawback something they intentionally hit Ultimus with. It was just an accident that occured when the Legendary rules changed with Kamigawa.
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The counterspell actually really underwhelms me. Sure, it has a lot of potential interactions, but I remember counterspell too well to get excited about the exact same card plus a drawback.
I am putting it right in my silly Mystic Snake deck...loving that card if it is real.
And the portent variant makes me want to make my R/G dryad deck more of a U/G build...
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I am putting it right in my silly Mystic Snake deck...loving that card if it is real.
And the portent variant makes me want to make my R/G dryad deck more of a U/G build...
Well, it's a drawback in the early game, when you might not have anything to bounce.
Still...given that the standard for hard counters is 1UU, a UU counter's got to have a significant drawback. I don't think return a creature qualifies, since it's often a bonus.
Keep in mind that since the rescue is a cost, it's effectively faster-than-split-second.
if the counterspell is real, then its clearly quite strong but can only be played in aggro-control decks. a pure control draw-go style deck absolutely cannot use that spell but a UG deck with Mystic Snakes, Vensers, Cloudskates, Wall of Roots, Trolls, and Goyfs has plenty of creatures to bounce several of which WANT to be bounced.
I am putting it right in my silly Mystic Snake deck...loving that card if it is real.
And the portent variant makes me want to make my R/G dryad deck more of a U/G build...
Yes, it can be built around, but it's still a drawback. You can't play this turn two unless you play a turn one creature, and are willing to return. You can't even play it turn three unless you have a turn two creature you're willing to return. The oracle is cycling out, and the other ones can't be played until turn four at the earliest. That makes this a turn five counterspell, by which point a lot of what needed to be countered came into play already.
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I am putting it right in my silly Mystic Snake deck...loving that card if it is real.
And the portent variant makes me want to make my R/G dryad deck more of a U/G build...
As mentioned in the post above, it IS a pseudo-drawback in the sense that it limits you in certain situations. It can't be played in some Control decks, like Dralnu for example, since Dralnu rarely has creatures. Also, it can't be played in the first few turns, usually, even for Blink decks. I think it's an amazing card... but not for all decks.
Well, it's a drawback in the early game, when you might not have anything to bounce.
Still...given that the standard for hard counters is 1UU, a UU counter's got to have a significant drawback. I don't think return a creature qualifies, since it's often a bonus.
Keep in mind that since the rescue is a cost, it's effectively faster-than-split-second.
I wouldn't say faster-than-split-second. Maybe split-second speed faster-than-split-second would imply that you could do it in response to Sudden Death, which you can't.
Overall, it's at times both strictly better and strictly worse than Counterspell. In the right deck it's going to be massive card advantage in a counterspell, while at the same time can lose you tempo in the early game. I've posted a general list somewhere back, but I'll do it again.
Obviously very rudimentary. The idea is the Walls and Goyf's hold the early game against aggro, while the sick amount of bounce and countermagic overwhelm anything control or combo based. Lorwyn may change the metagame entirely, but I think this deck will be a valid choice for States, and it's definitely something to keep in mind.
I wouldn't say faster-than-split-second. Maybe split-second speed faster-than-split-second would imply that you could do it in response to Sudden Death, which you can't.
It's faster in some ways.
If your opponent casts Wipe Away on his Teferi, you can respond by unmorphing your Vesuvan Shapeshifter to kill it. If he had used a card like that counterspell, it would be returned before you had a chance to respond.
If your opponent casts Wipe Away on his Teferi, you can respond by unmorphing your Vesuvan Shapeshifter to kill it. If he had used a card like that counterspell, it would be returned before you had a chance to respond.
Ah, touche. I was trying to figure out a way that it could actually be better than Willbendering a split second spell and drawing a blank. Wipe Away is the key, being the most similar. For instance, your opponent could also Willbender your Wipe Away to target something you didn't want to bounce. So yes, you're correct, faster-than-split-second is valid
If your opponent casts Wipe Away on his Teferi, you can respond by unmorphing your Vesuvan Shapeshifter to kill it. If he had used a card like that counterspell, it would be returned before you had a chance to respond.
Just because morphing is faster than split second doesn't mean the proposed counterspell is. The proposed counterspell is an instant, and therefore slower than split second.
Just because morphing is faster than split second doesn't mean the proposed counterspell is. The proposed counterspell is an instant, and therefore slower than split second.
i think what he means is that if he used the counter to bounce teferi INSTEAD of wipe away, vesuvan shapeshifter would not have priority. not that he could respond to wipe away with the counterspell. i hope i said that correctly.
Okay. I don't know what that means, but thanks. Also, don't double post. Use the EDIT button.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck *********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like to to occur and validate you.
If it weren't tribal with Giant it could be pretty kick ass with some blink creatures, like the new UB legend. Opponent targets lesser/non-protected creature, blink the protected creature to fizzle the threat against the newly protected creature..
i think what he means is that if he used the counter to bounce teferi INSTEAD of wipe away, vesuvan shapeshifter would not have priority. not that he could respond to wipe away with the counterspell. i hope i said that correctly.
Okay. I don't know what that means, but thanks. Also, don't double post. Use the EDIT button.
That may be right, I don't really want to think about it, but it certainly wasn't grammatically correct enough to be understandable (no flame intended)
This counter is "faster" than split second in that if you were to Wipe Away your Teferi, your opponent could un-morph Vesuvan Shapeshifter as Teferi, killing both by the legend rule before Wipe Away resolved. However, if you were to play this new counterspell returning Teferi as a cost, neither player gets priority between the time the spell is played and Teferi is returned to your hand, so your opponent wouldn't have time to kill it with Shapeshifter.
As rumored, the card is an enchantment with the Giant creature type tacked on. It doesn't specify that you have to be playing with Giants.
Card Name - 1W
Tribal Enchantment - Giant (R)
Each creature with the highest converted mana cost has protection from all colors.
I guess I was assuming on that one, but I felt it was a bit straight forward and didn't require investigation. Why in the world would it just be tagged on.. am I missing something?
I guess I was assuming on that one, but I felt it was a bit straight forward and didn't require investigation. Why in the world would it just be tagged on..
Bingo. Why do non-creature spells have creature types? So far, the answer is "because sometimes it'll have an interaction with an old or new card that it shouldn't, but it's cool anyway".
Going to make big "value" swings in Limited play. A certain, say, Treefolk spell (be it creature, instand, sorcery, enchantment, land, what have you) me be complete junk to you, but to someone else it makes the two Battlewand Treefolk they drafted +2/+2 bigger for the turn. (The same would go for any of the other tribes..) So now, not only do we have to value creatures within a color, for example, but also value them within a "tribe". These are going to be some fun drafts...;).
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The protection from all aura is beautiful and would be best friends with aggro if:
-Coalition Relic was not played in most control decks and has a cc of 3.
-It cost W instead of 1W
-If it could be played on a weenie, instead of Giant-Only
The counter is extremely fair. While you could enable some 187-hijinks, it is usually net tempo loss to return a creature to your hand, and of course counterspells are at their most powerful when they are aggressively costed for the beginning of the game. You need morphs or other blue creatures to pull it off with this one, further pushing the traditional draw-go strategy to sync up with creatures.
The portent is very strong, compare to Sleight of Hand for instace. If Dragonstorm weren't dead, it would run it. It digs deeper and allows for a re-shuffle which will often be better than automatically putting one card on the bottom.
The bone harvest is strong too, but I think it requires a specific deck. Very good limited card (like Recover).
I like the elemental engineer, and it does seem to fit Red better than the one in 5th dawn fit blue. Someone will have fun with their Gruul Groundbreaker decks, for sure.
The shapeshifter keyword is interesting, and agressively priced on a bear. You need a kithkin for that continuous ability? You got it. Need a merrow for that spell? A goblin to sacrifice? Very decent limited ability, with a possibility for constructed use if there are some good tribal cards. We'll need to see whether it is a direct descendant of Mistform Ultimus and has all those creature types even when not in play (for goblin graveyard spells, and tribal tutors).
You don't have to put it on a giant. If you did Bound in Silence would suck.
mistform ultimus is a otherwise vanilla 3/3 and was made a legend only because when it was made legend was a type and without it people would think it wasn't a legend and if it wasn't a legend it wouldn't be every type.
But ya a common? why? o_O
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You don't have to put it on anything. Rather, you *can't* put in on anything. This isn't even comparable to Bound in Silence as that's an Aura, this is not (although you are correct, Bound in Silence and other Tribal Auras do not have to be put on creatures of their Tribal type.)
The cleaned up wording (as has already been posted) is:
Card Name [mana]1W[/ mana]
Tribal Enchantment - Giant
Creatures with the highest converted mana cost among all creatures in play have protection from all colors.
It's not like Emblem of the Warmind, which has to be on a creature. You can't put it on your opponent's creatures, so it goes away when you lose your creature. It's just a plain old global enchantment, that works whether there are creatures in play or not.
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This is assuming that there are no better two-drops for the given Tribe. It's imagineable for giant, since I'd assume they're expensive, but I would believe that there have to be better Boggarts than 1B for a vanilla 2/2.
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However, to the people who claimed that Mistform Ultimus was made legendary as a drawback, I just want to point out that that isn't so. At the time of Ultimus's printing Legend was still a creature type, meaning even if they didn't list it's type as "Illusion Legend" it would still count as a Legend and have the rules of a Legend and so they felt it was worth avoiding the headache that would involve by listing it up front. Had they not, there would have been some unhappy situations where someone plays a second Ultimus just to see it die to the Legendary rule.
Basically, my point is, don't consider the legendary drawback something they intentionally hit Ultimus with. It was just an accident that occured when the Legendary rules changed with Kamigawa.
And so does not lose the enemy's defeat.
Therefore, the victorious military is first victorious and after that does battle.
The defeated military first does battle and after that seeks victory."
How's it a drawback?
I am putting it right in my silly Mystic Snake deck...loving that card if it is real.
And the portent variant makes me want to make my R/G dryad deck more of a U/G build...
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Well, it's a drawback in the early game, when you might not have anything to bounce.
Still...given that the standard for hard counters is 1UU, a UU counter's got to have a significant drawback. I don't think return a creature qualifies, since it's often a bonus.
Keep in mind that since the rescue is a cost, it's effectively faster-than-split-second.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Yes, it can be built around, but it's still a drawback. You can't play this turn two unless you play a turn one creature, and are willing to return. You can't even play it turn three unless you have a turn two creature you're willing to return. The oracle is cycling out, and the other ones can't be played until turn four at the earliest. That makes this a turn five counterspell, by which point a lot of what needed to be countered came into play already.
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As mentioned in the post above, it IS a pseudo-drawback in the sense that it limits you in certain situations. It can't be played in some Control decks, like Dralnu for example, since Dralnu rarely has creatures. Also, it can't be played in the first few turns, usually, even for Blink decks. I think it's an amazing card... but not for all decks.
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I wouldn't say faster-than-split-second. Maybe split-second speed faster-than-split-second would imply that you could do it in response to Sudden Death, which you can't.
Overall, it's at times both strictly better and strictly worse than Counterspell. In the right deck it's going to be massive card advantage in a counterspell, while at the same time can lose you tempo in the early game. I've posted a general list somewhere back, but I'll do it again.
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Brushland
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Plains
3 Forest
3 Island
4 Wall of Roots
4 Mystic Snake
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Riftwing Cloudskate
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
3 Delay
4 New Counterspell
Obviously very rudimentary. The idea is the Walls and Goyf's hold the early game against aggro, while the sick amount of bounce and countermagic overwhelm anything control or combo based. Lorwyn may change the metagame entirely, but I think this deck will be a valid choice for States, and it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Thanks IM
It's faster in some ways.
If your opponent casts Wipe Away on his Teferi, you can respond by unmorphing your Vesuvan Shapeshifter to kill it. If he had used a card like that counterspell, it would be returned before you had a chance to respond.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Ah, touche. I was trying to figure out a way that it could actually be better than Willbendering a split second spell and drawing a blank. Wipe Away is the key, being the most similar. For instance, your opponent could also Willbender your Wipe Away to target something you didn't want to bounce. So yes, you're correct, faster-than-split-second is valid
Thanks IM
Just because morphing is faster than split second doesn't mean the proposed counterspell is. The proposed counterspell is an instant, and therefore slower than split second.
.
i think what he means is that if he used the counter to bounce teferi INSTEAD of wipe away, vesuvan shapeshifter would not have priority. not that he could respond to wipe away with the counterspell. i hope i said that correctly.
Okay. I don't know what that means, but thanks. Also, don't double post. Use the EDIT button.
I will play this in any deck with Greater Gargadon.
Pretty sure that's not a Giant, though.
If it weren't tribal with Giant it could be pretty kick ass with some blink creatures, like the new UB legend. Opponent targets lesser/non-protected creature, blink the protected creature to fizzle the threat against the newly protected creature..
As rumored, the card is an enchantment with the Giant creature type tacked on. It doesn't specify that you have to be playing with Giants.
Card Name - 1W
Tribal Enchantment - Giant (R)
Each creature with the highest converted mana cost has protection from all colors.
.
That may be right, I don't really want to think about it, but it certainly wasn't grammatically correct enough to be understandable (no flame intended)
This counter is "faster" than split second in that if you were to Wipe Away your Teferi, your opponent could un-morph Vesuvan Shapeshifter as Teferi, killing both by the legend rule before Wipe Away resolved. However, if you were to play this new counterspell returning Teferi as a cost, neither player gets priority between the time the spell is played and Teferi is returned to your hand, so your opponent wouldn't have time to kill it with Shapeshifter.
I hope that's a little more clear.
Thanks IM
I guess I was assuming on that one, but I felt it was a bit straight forward and didn't require investigation. Why in the world would it just be tagged on.. am I missing something?
^^^Bound in Silence, good point.
You kids with your new keywords and types.
Bingo. Why do non-creature spells have creature types? So far, the answer is "because sometimes it'll have an interaction with an old or new card that it shouldn't, but it's cool anyway".
.
Cheers,
Austin