mediocre. conjecture: it's a Salt Marsh in everything but Block and a fraction of Standard. and maybe someone's stupid Faerie pwns! deck. don't even mention Tribal Wars.
EDIT:
Quote from pandafarmer »
If they include enemy colors... then YES they are a big deal. Big enough to be Rare. RAV really REALLY spoiled people.
and well we should be spoiled! people spend a lot of money on packs and cards, why shouldn't we get cool stuff?
What would be more interesting for the "questionable" tribes is that they're faster mana with nastier contingencies if you ask me. (and more believable - and I forget exactly how I quoted, but I did mention that I expected Tribal based duals here - definitely not the way these work though)
And running with that idea of empowering the "slow tribes" with more speed via their land I could see....
(CARDNAME)
Land
T: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool
T, Sacrifice a Forest: Add GGGG to your mana pool. You may only use the mana from this for Treefolk and Treefolk abilities.
T, Sacrifice a Swamp: Add BBBB to your mana pool. You may only use the mana from this for Treefolk and Treefolk abilities.
And.....
(CARDNAME)
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Discard a card: Add 1 mana of each color in that card's casting cost to your mana pool. This mana may only be used for Elemental spells and abilities.
These lands have no eternal value which bothers me, will only be good in standard as long as Lorwyn and tribal is the main attraction.... Kind of unfortunate, oh well.
mediocre. conjecture: it's a Salt Marsh in everything but Block and a fraction of Standard. and maybe someone's stupid Faerie pwns! deck. don't even mention Tribal Wars.
mediocre only when compared to the glory that is Rav duals. This isn't a multicolor block, its a tribal block, so I don't see the reasoning behind expecting any more than these lands. And i'm pretty sure we'll all be playin em.
Am I the only one worrying that block is gonna be a bunch of force-fed decks?
Unless there are some powerful NON-tribal cards, it seems like block will be the two to three strongest tribes. They gave us the tribes. Now they are giving us the mana to fix for them? It doesn't seem like any other decks will have a chance to compete against the well-oiled tribal decks.
Affinity was pre-built for us. I'm scared that all we're gonna see for the next two years are pre-built decks without a lot of imagination or ingenuity.
These lands have no eternal value which bothers me, will only be good in standard as long as Lorwyn and tribal is the main attraction.... Kind of unfortunate, oh well.
Everyone saying things like that is trying to be Nostradamus....
It's very possible for WotC to continue to do "focused races" within colors outside of tribal blocks you do realize, right?
Whether or not the races continue to show up in non-tribal blocks is questionable, but honestly - unless they get reprinted in a non-tribal core set, why does it matter?
In Standard, they'll rotate the same time as the block, when ALL ex-Standard cards will lose value, same with Extended, etc. There will never be a format these are legal in and Lorwyn itself with the primary tribe support isn't.
Okay..we already know that we have a Faerie that doubles as a counterspell...which is useful, to say the least...so the U/B land looks solid. We also already know that Teeg looks strong..so there's a Kithkin in hand for the G/W. Goblins B/R...it goes without saying. We haven't seen enough Merfolk to know if they're truly viable..so U/W would be up in the air. And G/B..."here's the Llanowar I'm about to cast..."..seems usable to me.
Treefolk get the BG land. Can't be BGW because giving one tribe a triple land is just vastly unfair.
Elves, being Elves, have plenty of other ways to provide mana of both colors (some variant on Elves of Deep Shadow, which I know has been speculated)
These lands have no eternal value which bothers me, will only be good in standard as long as Lorwyn and tribal is the main attraction.... Kind of unfortunate, oh well.
I'm pretty sure we have enough 'eternal lands' after Rav and Onslaught. As for these lands in Lorwyn, they rotate out when Lorwyn rotates out. Sure once next year's block comes out then Tribal will most likely be de-emphasized in Standard but that doesn't mean that cards within the tribes won't still be good. That and the next block will prolly have it's own mana fixing to contribute. You have to remember that these lands were made for a Tribal set and they reflect that very well, should be some fun.
Am I the only one worrying that block is gonna be a bunch of force-fed decks?
Unless there are some powerful NON-tribal cards, it seems like block will be the two to three strongest tribes. They gave us the tribes. Now they are giving us the mana to fix for them? It doesn't seem like any other decks will have a chance to compete against the well-oiled tribal decks.
Affinity was pre-built for us. I'm scared that all we're gonna see for the next two years are pre-built decks without a lot of imagination or ingenuity.
57/301 so far, and it's already looking that Monocolor backed up with a Planeswalker running multiple tribes instead of focusing one is going to be an option to me.... in fact it looks like WotC is even planning for that overlap with Kithkin Stoutheart.
it's a Salt Marsh in everything but Block and a fraction of Standard.
A fraction of Standard? You don't expect tribal decks to make up a significant portion of Standard after, y'know, the tribal block rotates into it?
and well we should be spoiled! people spend a lot of money on packs and cards, why shouldn't we get cool stuff?
You can only have so much cool stuff in any given set (otherwise, the standard for what is good enough to be "cool" just goes up). Not every set of lands can be as good as the ones in Ravnica. In a few years multicolor will be a theme again, or one of the better FS cycles will get completed, and we'll have good dual lands again.
Am I the only one worrying that block is gonna be a bunch of force-fed decks?
That concern was one of my big reasons for not being excited about another tribal block -- Onslaught block was a disaster, in my opinion, one of the worst blocks ever. But I think it won't be a problem as long as the tribes are close in power to one another, support multiple strategies, and can be combined in various ways -- for example, you might be able to run a mono-green aggro deck that makes use of key treefolk, elf, and kithkin cards.
On the subject of force feeding deck types. That would include eight different deck types at least not to mention that shapshifters and elementals allow for branching out. We're force fed tribes, but not necessarily the way to use them.
the cards that most people like are usually the more expensive ones. do you believe this card will outvalue Watery Grave?
Watery Grave is expensive because it's a necessary card for tournament viable decks right now. That doesn't necessarily mean it's popular; people might buy and use them without wanting lands that universally good (and therefore, that expensive) to be part of the format.
A fraction of Standard? You don't expect tribal decks to make up a significant portion of Standard after, y'know, the tribal block rotates into it?
yes, a fraction of Standard. maybe a significant fraction, but a fraction nonetheless.
listen, i know they'll be played in Standard; it's stupid to assume otherwise simply because we lose the Rav duals and the FS cycle doesn't cut it, i.e. there's no great replacement. but in Extended? i don't think so. frankly, i'd rather just have the enemy color Invasion CIPT lands for the sheer elegance of them.
EDIT:
Quote from charlequin »
Watery Grave is expensive because it's a necessary card for tournament viable decks right now. That doesn't necessarily mean it's popular; people might buy and use them without wanting lands that universally good (and therefore, that expensive) to be part of the format.
that's not the only reason they're expensive. what about casual? they're expensive because they're just great cards. these lands aren't. that's all i'm trying to tell you.
Gotta agree with you on this one - they should be uncommon - i think wizards is running out of ideas
They are pretty ugly on rare status if you look at everything from magic.
But if they weren't rare the land fixing in-block would be to strong.
But as I said, I want 4 goblin-lands and 4 Kithkin-lands for casual. and the others won't be that expensive.
That concern was one of my big reasons for not being excited about another tribal block -- Onslaught block was a disaster, in my opinion, one of the worst blocks ever.
As far as the tribal decks that came out of Standard, I really only remember Elves and Goblins actually going anywhere. It seemed like Slide was the biggest deck that came out of Onslaught, and Wizards didn't even know how huge that would be, IIRC.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why did I ever think a signature in comic sans was a good idea?
Ummm..Freixa...why couldn't you play this if you're playing control with only the Spellmesser Faerie? At best, your opening hand has a Faerie in it..and you play it untapped. At worst..you're playing CONTROL..and the CIPT doesn't really bother you all that much.
EDIT:
If they include enemy colors... then YES they are a big deal. Big enough to be Rare. RAV really REALLY spoiled people.
and well we should be spoiled! people spend a lot of money on packs and cards, why shouldn't we get cool stuff?
:symb::symg: Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana: Rainbow Stairwell
:symu::symg: turboLAND
Elf Clamp
:symw::symr: indirect damage and mass destruction
:symu::symr: i'm flipping mad
:symu::symg: Mesmeric mill
:symg::symr: Korky-Jorky
Mirrodin block
:symw::symu::symr::xmana: the charger
:symu::symr: the generator
:symu::symb: the machine
the engine
And running with that idea of empowering the "slow tribes" with more speed via their land I could see....
(CARDNAME)
Land
T: Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool
T, Sacrifice a Forest: Add GGGG to your mana pool. You may only use the mana from this for Treefolk and Treefolk abilities.
T, Sacrifice a Swamp: Add BBBB to your mana pool. You may only use the mana from this for Treefolk and Treefolk abilities.
And.....
(CARDNAME)
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
T, Discard a card: Add 1 mana of each color in that card's casting cost to your mana pool. This mana may only be used for Elemental spells and abilities.
(And yes, I know my card formatting sucks)
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Believe in Christ with all your heart
Because not everybody likes them.
mediocre only when compared to the glory that is Rav duals. This isn't a multicolor block, its a tribal block, so I don't see the reasoning behind expecting any more than these lands. And i'm pretty sure we'll all be playin em.
Unless there are some powerful NON-tribal cards, it seems like block will be the two to three strongest tribes. They gave us the tribes. Now they are giving us the mana to fix for them? It doesn't seem like any other decks will have a chance to compete against the well-oiled tribal decks.
Affinity was pre-built for us. I'm scared that all we're gonna see for the next two years are pre-built decks without a lot of imagination or ingenuity.
Everyone saying things like that is trying to be Nostradamus....
It's very possible for WotC to continue to do "focused races" within colors outside of tribal blocks you do realize, right?
Whether or not the races continue to show up in non-tribal blocks is questionable, but honestly - unless they get reprinted in a non-tribal core set, why does it matter?
In Standard, they'll rotate the same time as the block, when ALL ex-Standard cards will lose value, same with Extended, etc. There will never be a format these are legal in and Lorwyn itself with the primary tribe support isn't.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Cheers,
Austin
Treefolk get the BG land. Can't be BGW because giving one tribe a triple land is just vastly unfair.
Elves, being Elves, have plenty of other ways to provide mana of both colors (some variant on Elves of Deep Shadow, which I know has been speculated)
I'm pretty sure we have enough 'eternal lands' after Rav and Onslaught. As for these lands in Lorwyn, they rotate out when Lorwyn rotates out. Sure once next year's block comes out then Tribal will most likely be de-emphasized in Standard but that doesn't mean that cards within the tribes won't still be good. That and the next block will prolly have it's own mana fixing to contribute. You have to remember that these lands were made for a Tribal set and they reflect that very well, should be some fun.
57/301 so far, and it's already looking that Monocolor backed up with a Planeswalker running multiple tribes instead of focusing one is going to be an option to me.... in fact it looks like WotC is even planning for that overlap with Kithkin Stoutheart.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
A fraction of Standard? You don't expect tribal decks to make up a significant portion of Standard after, y'know, the tribal block rotates into it?
You can only have so much cool stuff in any given set (otherwise, the standard for what is good enough to be "cool" just goes up). Not every set of lands can be as good as the ones in Ravnica. In a few years multicolor will be a theme again, or one of the better FS cycles will get completed, and we'll have good dual lands again.
That concern was one of my big reasons for not being excited about another tribal block -- Onslaught block was a disaster, in my opinion, one of the worst blocks ever. But I think it won't be a problem as long as the tribes are close in power to one another, support multiple strategies, and can be combined in various ways -- for example, you might be able to run a mono-green aggro deck that makes use of key treefolk, elf, and kithkin cards.
Gotta agree with you on this one - they should be uncommon - i think wizards is running out of ideas
the cards that most people like are usually the more expensive ones. do you believe this card will outvalue Watery Grave?
:symb::symg: Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana: Rainbow Stairwell
:symu::symg: turboLAND
Elf Clamp
:symw::symr: indirect damage and mass destruction
:symu::symr: i'm flipping mad
:symu::symg: Mesmeric mill
:symg::symr: Korky-Jorky
Mirrodin block
:symw::symu::symr::xmana: the charger
:symu::symr: the generator
:symu::symb: the machine
the engine
Watery Grave is expensive because it's a necessary card for tournament viable decks right now. That doesn't necessarily mean it's popular; people might buy and use them without wanting lands that universally good (and therefore, that expensive) to be part of the format.
yes, a fraction of Standard. maybe a significant fraction, but a fraction nonetheless.
listen, i know they'll be played in Standard; it's stupid to assume otherwise simply because we lose the Rav duals and the FS cycle doesn't cut it, i.e. there's no great replacement. but in Extended? i don't think so. frankly, i'd rather just have the enemy color Invasion CIPT lands for the sheer elegance of them.
EDIT:
Watery Grave is expensive because it's a necessary card for tournament viable decks right now. That doesn't necessarily mean it's popular; people might buy and use them without wanting lands that universally good (and therefore, that expensive) to be part of the format.
that's not the only reason they're expensive. what about casual? they're expensive because they're just great cards. these lands aren't. that's all i'm trying to tell you.
:symb::symg: Reanimator
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg::xmana: Rainbow Stairwell
:symu::symg: turboLAND
Elf Clamp
:symw::symr: indirect damage and mass destruction
:symu::symr: i'm flipping mad
:symu::symg: Mesmeric mill
:symg::symr: Korky-Jorky
Mirrodin block
:symw::symu::symr::xmana: the charger
:symu::symr: the generator
:symu::symb: the machine
the engine
-eViL MaRo
They are pretty ugly on rare status if you look at everything from magic.
But if they weren't rare the land fixing in-block would be to strong.
But as I said, I want 4 goblin-lands and 4 Kithkin-lands for casual. and the others won't be that expensive.
As far as the tribal decks that came out of Standard, I really only remember Elves and Goblins actually going anywhere. It seemed like Slide was the biggest deck that came out of Onslaught, and Wizards didn't even know how huge that would be, IIRC.
Or, you know, you could play the fetchable and strictly better Badlands. This card really doesn't add anything.
What?
Cheers,
Austin
It lowers the cost of my deck by 80 euro for me.
You can still fetch enough forests or shockduals.