Wow... why on earth is the GB land for Treefolk? From what we've seen so far, these Treefolk are not going to need to worry about being able to make a one drop. Having access to either color on turn one does nothing. Late game, the amount of those important creatures in your hand will greatly diminish. I doubt even tribal non-creatures will be enough to constantly give you an untapped at that point.
Wow... why on earth is the GB land for Treefolk? From what we've seen so far, these Treefolk are not going to need to worry about being able to make a one drop. Having access to either color on turn one does nothing. Late game, the amount of those important creatures in your hand will greatly diminish. I doubt even tribal non-creatures will be enough to constantly give you an untapped at that point.
I think b/g will be elves, and that was just an accidental mistype on Hydro's part, or from his source.
For all the people fearing Onslaught v2.0 Wizards is clearly aiming to make each Tribe much less singular and more option-friendly. we already have a card like:
Kithkin Greatheart 1W
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
Kithkin Greatheart gets +1/+1 and first strike as long as you control a Giant.
2/1
Which seems to me to say that Wizards is opening up a lot more options as to how you would like to build your deck. You don't just have to play a Kithkin deck, or Giant deck, you can play both in one and utilize various cards that enhance this combination. Therefor instead of just being able to build decks dedicated to one of the 8 tribes, there could be upwards of 16 (who knows at this point) different tribe-combinations to be considered. And this variety does not include customization within each individual tribe. I wouldn't worry too much about the linearity of deck-building with Lorwyn as that was clearly the A number one problem with Onslaught block and Wizards realizes this i'm sure. After only 37 previewed cards we can already see that they're addressing this in a very cool way i think.
I agree...I really think that it would make a large Treefolk-sized-anusload of sense to have Elves getting the GB land. That way, they could, you know, play some spells in the early game. Hasn't the official statement on Treefolk been that their mana curve begins at roughly 3? Why in the world would it make sense to give the, arguably, slowest tribe in Lorwyn a land that facilitates early plays? It's complete and total Scheiβrϋben. The GB tribal land should thus go to Elves, and not Treefolk, the lumbering arboreal dimwits of Lorwyn.
[EDIT] I should specify, I am agreeing with Alabran, and not with Ranma, in which case my statements would not make sense.
I have no problems with cursing. I always feel like the sort of people who buy that cliche are the same ones who think that every bully is secretly insecure. Life isn't as simple as our kindergarten teachers taught us.
Agh. Should be uncommon. This nerfs the theories on Fetches for this set at least, because I don't think we'd get too rare land cycles. But, I'll be picking them up regardless.
It makes sense though. All the enemy colors aren't even supported in this set.
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Underling Ethu's 263rd report read simply "Yes, my lord.Overwhelmingly, my lord." This marked the end of the Mirran-Phyrexian War.
Just because a Tribal block is here doesn't make T2 JUST about the tribes. RAV had plenty of variety that blurred the guilds. These lands will make a splash the minute we see how effective the tribes are built. Frankly I found many of the guilds "thrown together" for the large part. If tribes are just a bunch of so-so cards with some fancy creature types... yeah these lands will be in your 2-5$ bin soon enough. BUT, if the tribes have a very well thought out "plan" to them... we could very well see people scrambling to own these for their tribal decks.
Besides, Tribal Wars is a very popular casual tournament format. Just for collectors these lands will be worth at least $5 a piece.
I agree...I really think that it would make a large Treefolk-sized-anusload of sense to have Elves getting the GB land. That way, they could, you know, play some spells in the early game. Hasn't the official statement on Treefolk been that their mana curve begins at roughly 3? Why in the world would it make sense to give the, arguably, slowest tribe in Lorwyn a land that facilitates early plays? It's complete and total Schei?r?ben. The GB tribal land should thus go to Elves, and not Treefolk, the lumbering arboreal dimwits of Lorwyn.
[EDIT] I should specify, I am agreeing with Alabran, and not with Ranma, in which case my statements would not make sense.
Yea, Treefolk could use a slow triple land, like this:
Treefolk Land
Land T: Add W or B or G to your mana pool.
~ comes into play tapped.
When ~ comes into play, it doesn't untap during your next untap step.
yes, a fraction of Standard. maybe a significant fraction, but a fraction nonetheless.
But... almost every good card, except broken stuff like Jitte, only gets played in a "fraction" of Standard.
but in Extended? i don't think so.
Is Extended the standard for whether a card is good or not now? Almost no new lands that could be printed right now would be able to measure up well to the shocklands.
that's not the only reason they're expensive.
It's the primary one. Most casual players invest in cards that make decks distinct instead of expensive manabases; a lot of groups proxy lands, or just use less efficient but not terrible lands (Ravnica bouncelands, painlands, snowduals, etc.) instead.
The funny thing about these lands and standard and extended is that the kitkhin one will be the weakest because there are so few playable kitkhin atm. Goblin and elves' duals however should rock hard and the BR goblin dual will get to see some play in bidding and decks with splashes.
I am kind of disappointed in this lands. They are good, but making a cycle of rare duals that rely on tribal is kind of frustrating. I was hoping for a decent uncommon set. These lands are probably going to end up going pretty high in price and once they rotate out most will probably become worth less than painlands (with several exceptions, like the Goblin one). *sigh*
money-grubbin-son-of-a-guns at Wizards. Why do I have to love your game so?
Um, am I the only one that doesn't understand the Rare status of these cards?
Oh wait.. i'm not-
Ok, we knew they wouldn't be Ravnica powerful, but these at Rare are downright insulting. The Goblin is the only one with any real value (based on the tribe's value) and UB and GW got the shaft with Faeries and Kithkin representation.
If i opened one of these, i'd be furious personally.
Especially with the amazing creatures in this set.
To everyone that says these should be uncommon, wait and see what the rest of the set looks like. It just tells me that tribal strategies wont only be viable, but very good.
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Current T2 Decks:
:symu::symr: Perilous Storm
:symu::symw::symr: Angelfire
:symu::symbu: Pickles
These duals are only worse than the rav duals in the fact that they don't have basic land types. Really they should be rare in this block though, cuz it's not a multicolor block, it's tribal, and they have a tribal theme to them. I think they're really good and will see a lot of play, though they're value won't be in the 20's.
By the way, Hydro, you're a god among men. Keep the rumor mill alive man.
Given their somewhat tribal nature (drawback), these should have been made uncommon. So, we have another, probably chase rare, cycle of duals to acquire. How boring. Undoubtedly very good cards, but still boring. We had a cycle in Future sight, how many of these will there be? And why all rare?
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YuanTI- As i stated, they weren't going to be a match for the duals, but to force tribal play at the RARE spot isn't fair. That is basically Legions all over again (Play creatures-- we won't even print other spells this time. Don't play creatures>? Don't play.)
These aren't better than the Duals, or the Fetches, or the enemy Pains or the regular Pains for that matter. They're way too specific to be at their rarity.
Carrion- Time Spiral wasnt a multicolor block either, but it did have the FS cycle, which i can say has a few better designs than this one. (Horizon Canopy, Graven Cairns, Nimbus Maze)
The forced tribalness is NOT good. Forcing tribal=== BAD. Long term-- the races change with the plane, thus the decline in power for these cards.
These seem like they will be quite a bit weaker
how many of a creature type do you need to guarantee these come into play untapped
If i'm playing a Boros Deck, I want to:
A. Be able to play this turn 1 untapped, with certainty
B. Have 56+ cards less than 4 mana in their casting cost
Even if I play 3 or 4 of the Giant Legend...
And, heck, lets say I play 4 Jotun Grunts
and, then manage to find 4 Tribal Giant burn spells that fit in my deck...
This dual land is still a debatable choice. Playing suboptimal cards to unlock a dual land is FAR more painful than simply shocking yourself
*sigh*
The worst part is, in all their effort to get rid of useless creature types... Bloodrock Cyclops is a Cyclops not a giant
not that it's... constructed playable... by any means... A 3 mana, 3/3 giant could be playable, if there was enough tribal support...
but, no... it's creature type Cyclops...
Long and short of it is the RW dual land will be more or less unplayable outside block
Except if you're still playing a "Boros" deck in Nov. Standard...you're cheating...;).
And it's not that these lands are UNPLAYABLE if you're not playing a race..they CIPT here folks. And then don't pain you to use them. They still make two colors of mana in one card. Are they going to see play? Of course! Are they as good as the RAV duals? No..there's only one set better than the RAV duals. And in a block where, chances are, you're going to be running creatures..and chances are...those creatures are going to be one of the Tribes you need to unlock the dual...why are we complaining again?
Given their somewhat tribal nature (drawback), these should have been made uncommon. So, we have another, probably chase rare, cycle of duals to acquire. How boring. Undoubtedly very good cards, but still boring. We had a cycle in Future sight, how many of these will there be? And why all rare?
Every expansion needs it's set of Chase Rares, otherwise what will the rich players have to make us envious of them?
Anyway, reading everything that was said about the Elemental land, that it should give all colors, I think we might see 8th edition all over again: a cycle of CiPt lands at uncommon (slightly better this time) and a City of Brass variant at rare. I picture ut like this:
Catacombs of Genesis
Lands
When ~ comes into play, you may reveal an Elemental card from your hand. If you don't, ~ comes into play tapped.
T: add one mana of any color to your mana pool. ~ deals 1 damage to you. This damage cannot be prevented or redirected.
Except if you're still playing a "Boros" deck in Nov. Standard...you're cheating...;).
And it's not that these lands are UNPLAYABLE if you're not playing a race..they CIPT here folks. And then don't pain you to use them. They still make two colors of mana in one card. Are they going to see play? Of course! Are they as good as the RAV duals? No..there's only one set better than the RAV duals. And in a block where, chances are, you're going to be running creatures..and chances are...those creatures are going to be one of the Tribes you need to unlock the dual...why are we complaining again?
Cheers,
Austin
if you want duals that CIPT coldsnap has them
and they are uncommons
These are better than the Coldsnap duals, simply because there is a possibility (and a fairly strong one when we're playing with a Tribal block where creatureless builds probably won't be all that dominant) that they can come into play untapped.
These are much better than I had hoped.
People who are disappointed, as has been said many times in this thread, we have 15 other 'duals' in standard to pick from.
Noone is forcing you to use these. Use painlands or FS lands if you don't like it.
Also, there is no reason to make a full 10 card cycle of them. Ravnica wouldn't have had a full cycle if there wasn't 10 guilds...so if there are 8 tribes, expect 8 lands. (Remember, Jelly rotates with Lorwyn, so it might have its own duals)
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I think b/g will be elves, and that was just an accidental mistype on Hydro's part, or from his source.
Kithkin Greatheart 1W
Creature - Kithkin Soldier
Kithkin Greatheart gets +1/+1 and first strike as long as you control a Giant.
2/1
Which seems to me to say that Wizards is opening up a lot more options as to how you would like to build your deck. You don't just have to play a Kithkin deck, or Giant deck, you can play both in one and utilize various cards that enhance this combination. Therefor instead of just being able to build decks dedicated to one of the 8 tribes, there could be upwards of 16 (who knows at this point) different tribe-combinations to be considered. And this variety does not include customization within each individual tribe. I wouldn't worry too much about the linearity of deck-building with Lorwyn as that was clearly the A number one problem with Onslaught block and Wizards realizes this i'm sure. After only 37 previewed cards we can already see that they're addressing this in a very cool way i think.
[EDIT] I should specify, I am agreeing with Alabran, and not with Ranma, in which case my statements would not make sense.
It makes sense though. All the enemy colors aren't even supported in this set.
Besides, Tribal Wars is a very popular casual tournament format. Just for collectors these lands will be worth at least $5 a piece.
Yea, Treefolk could use a slow triple land, like this:
Treefolk Land
Land
T: Add W or B or G to your mana pool.
~ comes into play tapped.
When ~ comes into play, it doesn't untap during your next untap step.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
But... almost every good card, except broken stuff like Jitte, only gets played in a "fraction" of Standard.
Is Extended the standard for whether a card is good or not now? Almost no new lands that could be printed right now would be able to measure up well to the shocklands.
It's the primary one. Most casual players invest in cards that make decks distinct instead of expensive manabases; a lot of groups proxy lands, or just use less efficient but not terrible lands (Ravnica bouncelands, painlands, snowduals, etc.) instead.
Broaden your horizons.
I like these lands. I can see why they are rare. Hope they are actual cards.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 of High~light Studios for the awesome sig.
A wise man talks when he has something to say. A fool talks because he has to say something.
Looking for a card alterer that takes commissions specifically on a blank playmat. PM me please.
money-grubbin-son-of-a-guns at Wizards. Why do I have to love your game so?
Oh wait.. i'm not-
Ok, we knew they wouldn't be Ravnica powerful, but these at Rare are downright insulting. The Goblin is the only one with any real value (based on the tribe's value) and UB and GW got the shaft with Faeries and Kithkin representation.
If i opened one of these, i'd be furious personally.
Especially with the amazing creatures in this set.
:symu::symr: Perilous Storm
:symu::symw::symr: Angelfire
:symu::symbu: Pickles
By the way, Hydro, you're a god among men. Keep the rumor mill alive man.
Backstabbing your friends for fun and profit
My Decks
EDH:
GVerdeloth the AncientG
Standard:
GWU Mana Denial UWG
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
These aren't better than the Duals, or the Fetches, or the enemy Pains or the regular Pains for that matter. They're way too specific to be at their rarity.
Carrion- Time Spiral wasnt a multicolor block either, but it did have the FS cycle, which i can say has a few better designs than this one. (Horizon Canopy, Graven Cairns, Nimbus Maze)
The forced tribalness is NOT good. Forcing tribal=== BAD. Long term-- the races change with the plane, thus the decline in power for these cards.
how many of a creature type do you need to guarantee these come into play untapped
If i'm playing a Boros Deck, I want to:
A. Be able to play this turn 1 untapped, with certainty
B. Have 56+ cards less than 4 mana in their casting cost
Even if I play 3 or 4 of the Giant Legend...
And, heck, lets say I play 4 Jotun Grunts
and, then manage to find 4 Tribal Giant burn spells that fit in my deck...
This dual land is still a debatable choice. Playing suboptimal cards to unlock a dual land is FAR more painful than simply shocking yourself
*sigh*
The worst part is, in all their effort to get rid of useless creature types... Bloodrock Cyclops is a Cyclops not a giant
not that it's... constructed playable... by any means... A 3 mana, 3/3 giant could be playable, if there was enough tribal support...
but, no... it's creature type Cyclops...
Long and short of it is the RW dual land will be more or less unplayable outside block
And it's not that these lands are UNPLAYABLE if you're not playing a race..they CIPT here folks. And then don't pain you to use them. They still make two colors of mana in one card. Are they going to see play? Of course! Are they as good as the RAV duals? No..there's only one set better than the RAV duals. And in a block where, chances are, you're going to be running creatures..and chances are...those creatures are going to be one of the Tribes you need to unlock the dual...why are we complaining again?
Cheers,
Austin
why are these rare? oh well at least this will end all the fetch land speculation.
Every expansion needs it's set of Chase Rares, otherwise what will the rich players have to make us envious of them?
Anyway, reading everything that was said about the Elemental land, that it should give all colors, I think we might see 8th edition all over again: a cycle of CiPt lands at uncommon (slightly better this time) and a City of Brass variant at rare. I picture ut like this:
Catacombs of Genesis
Lands
When ~ comes into play, you may reveal an Elemental card from your hand. If you don't, ~ comes into play tapped.
T: add one mana of any color to your mana pool. ~ deals 1 damage to you. This damage cannot be prevented or redirected.
if you want duals that CIPT coldsnap has them
and they are uncommons
Well, I for one, get all the expensive cards in the colors I play, but I still hate to trade or buy expensive, narrow stuff.
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Offical High Priest of Reign of Blood
Cheers,
Austin
People who are disappointed, as has been said many times in this thread, we have 15 other 'duals' in standard to pick from.
Noone is forcing you to use these. Use painlands or FS lands if you don't like it.
Also, there is no reason to make a full 10 card cycle of them. Ravnica wouldn't have had a full cycle if there wasn't 10 guilds...so if there are 8 tribes, expect 8 lands. (Remember, Jelly rotates with Lorwyn, so it might have its own duals)
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