So, I should start this thread with a couple of little teasers about what I know about Lorwyn, just to get you all pumped up for more info:
here goes, Hydro's Lorwyn Teasers!:
- One of the Blue walker's abilities puts 2 loyalty counters on him, instead of the one we've seen on the other walkers.... you'll see why soon enough.
- There is an uncommon red elemental that can add RRRRRRRR to your mana pool every turn!
- The Blue incarnation (Guile) is a counterspell players dream, your opponents spells become your own!!!
- Finally, there is a 4/4 Giant for 5 mana which damages all non-giants thanks to his brothers, when he hits play.
I hope you liked those, should open the way for some great speculation.
Anyways, onto the card spoiler.
Mosswort Bridge Land Hideaway (this land comes into play tapped. When it does, look at the top 4 cards of your library, remove one from the game face down, then put the rest on the bottom of your library.) Tap: Add G to your mana pool. G,Tap: You may play the removed card without paying its mana cost if creatures you control have total power 10 or greater. Rare.
Yes, it appears this keyword is the last of the five keywords in Lorwyn. There is a cycle of these rare lands, each with a different trigger for using the ability to play the 'hidden' card. (For example, the blue land requires you to have less than 20 cards in your library).
I must say I really like this design, and I can see any green deck using this card quite happily with good results. It stands to reason that not evey deck will be able to take advantage of the 'free spell', but those that can will do so often.
I'm uncertain on some of the other triggers for being able to play the ability, but if they're all in line from what we know of Mosswort Bridge and the Blue land in the cycle, they should be somewhat sort after for any deck play ing those (combinations of) colours.
I do hope you're enjoying the rumor season this time around, and believe me when I say there's soooooooo much more to look forward to. Also, the Rumor Gods listen closely to your requests for cards, so remain vigilant (Especially Trainwalker09 ;)) you have been heard my brothers...
Ok, so ONE of the blue walker's abilities puts 2 counters on him. Does this mean he has the standard +1 ability, and then the middle ability is a more situational double counter one? (Something like "destroy target red or green permanent" or something, i dunno).
Now this elemental, are you using MaRo's "can"? I mean, it could be something like "At the begining of your precombat main phase, add R to your mana pool for each elemental you control" and that technically "can" produce RRRRRRRR. That or it's something like "Tap, sacrifice an elemental, discard a card at random: Add RRRRRRRR to your mana pool".
Now for guile.. counterspell player's dream eh? Here's my guess:
Guile 3UUU
Creature - Elemental Incarnation
Flash
Whenever a player plays a spell that targets another creature you control, gain control of that spell. You may choose new targets for it.
Standard incarnation ability
6/6
The giant sounds like this:
Footstomp Giant 3RR
Creature- Giant
When Footstomp Giant comes into play, it deals x damage to each non-giant creature, where X is the number of giants you control
4/4
The land... seems iffy. Sure, it can let you get an impulsed card for pretty much free, but only after you're basically already winning. I mean, the best use I can see for it is queue up something that protects all your creatures, or brings you back from a wrath, like Caller of the Claw, and then have some insurance when you overextend to 10 power. Or just play 2 Tarmogoyf. Interested to see what the other cards are. Some guesses?
White: If you have fewer than 3 (5?) life
Black: If your opponent has no cards in hand
Red: If there are 5 sorcery cards in your graveyard?
The thing is, unless they are more easily obtainable than the ones we know, they're not going to see much play. Who wants to sacrifice their lands coming into play untapped for a slight chance of playing a card on the cheap? Seem very good in limited though, as 20 cards in the library is a common occurrance, as is 10 power of creatures durring a stalemate.
Jaelan's ability must be really bad as far as what it does for you. To give it two loyalty counters (although, maybe they're taking into account the huge Blue advantage of protecting planeswalkers-- IE counterspells, bouncing it back to hand, etc.) is a steep thing, especially since it's the only one we've seen that does that...
I sort of like what Hideway does, but I hate the fact that it's keyworded. I mean, seriously, that was so unnecessary. They could have just brought back imprint for this cycle.
EDIT: And haven't they said in the past that if a number is involved in a keyword, it's better to template it as "keyword X"? Why is *four* cards part of the ability. What a mess.
I think Hideaway is too narrow for a keyword, personally. Assuming this will be a cycle and nothing more, there's no reason why they had to keyword it - and the text seems a little off- why does "This comes into play tapped" have to be part of the keyword?
Ok, so ONE of the blue walker's abilities puts 2 counters on him. Does this mean he has the standard +1 ability, and then the middle ability is a more situational double counter one? (Something like "destroy target red or green permanent" or something, i dunno).
Now this elemental, are you using MaRo's "can"? I mean, it could be something like "At the begining of your precombat main phase, add R to your mana pool for each elemental you control" and that technically "can" produce RRRRRRRR. That or it's something like "Tap, sacrifice an elemental, discard a card at random: Add RRRRRRRR to your mana pool".
Now for guile.. counterspell player's dream eh? Here's my guess:
Guile 3UUU
Creature - Elemental Incarnation
Flash
Whenever a player plays a spell that targets another creature you control, gain control of that spell. You may choose new targets for it.
Standard incarnation ability
6/6
The giant sounds like this:
Footstomp Giant 3RR
Creature- Giant
When Footstomp Giant comes into play, it deals x damage to each non-giant creature, where X is the number of giants you control
4/4
The land... seems iffy. Sure, it can let you get an impulsed card for pretty much free, but only after you're basically already winning. I mean, the best use I can see for it is queue up something that protects all your creatures, or brings you back from a wrath, like Caller of the Claw, and then have some insurance when you overextend to 10 power. Or just play 2 Tarmogoyf. Interested to see what the other cards are. Some guesses?
White: If you have fewer than 3 (5?) life
Black: If your opponent has no cards in hand
Red: If there are 5 sorcery cards in your graveyard?
The thing is, unless they are more easily obtainable than the ones we know, they're not going to see much play. Who wants to sacrifice their lands coming into play untapped for a slight chance of playing a card on the cheap? Seem very good in limited though, as 20 cards in the library is a common occurrance, as is 10 power of creatures durring a stalemate.
I was thinking maybe you get two because the ability sort of hurts you...
like return a land to your hand..
imaging stasis
I will return this tapped land to my hand and then put it into play to pay for stasis ( ofcourse you can always end of turn return stasis too) just a thought , not a fact
That bridge thing is pretty wierd, I think it will be pretty good. It will probably be played with goyf. I bet you guile has flash and 'when ~ comes into play, gain control of target instant or sorcery. You may choose new targets for it.'
Did hydro get a job at wizards or something? I mean really, he has been going off an awful lot lately!
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With all, put the same thing except with / in front of what type of tags they are (like [/card]) to close them.
Card: [card]
Hybrid: :symub: = order doesn't matter
Jaelan's ability must be really bad as far as what it does for you. To give it two loyalty counters (although, maybe they're taking into account the huge Blue advantage of protecting planeswalkers-- IE counterspells, bouncing it back to hand, etc.) is a steep thing, especially since it's the only one we've seen that does that...
LOL, I think you mean "Jace" ... but I appreciate the fact that you've mistaken me for the blue planeswalker (maybe I should change my avatar back to match my banner).
Anyway, I was thinking the same thing.. what could possibly allow for Jace to get +2 counters? My first thought was that maybe he's only got 1 loyalty to start with... which will be fine with me, as long as he doesn't cost more than UUU or 1UU and the abilities are worth playing.
(Offers a prayer to the rumor gods that we get the scoop on Jace SOOOOOON!!)
I'm also really hyped to find out more about the blue incarnation (another prayer)!
interesting. you can't really abuse the land with treefolk too easily... which is a GOOD thing. Don't know if I like that keyworded... but hopfully we'll see some other fun options that use this.
Jaelan- Freudian slip I suppose ( I think about you CONSTANTLY!ZORS!!!).
While not a blue player, I love blue and black combo. Therefore, i Too am hoping for a good Blue incarnation and the Blue Walker... to see how UB control shapes up ^^
Jaelan .... i mean Jace *ahem* is my New best friend if he costs only 3 mana ^^
Bravo again for tease and card - I don't know how 'good' it will be - safehaven has essentially the same mechanic (hiding a creature till later) and it has never been a t1 card. BUT as already stated in a 40 card deck - this might be awesome - putting "on ice" a highcc that is situationally relevant is like being able to SB for late game tom-foolery. So... again Lorwyn seems to be pitching cards at constructed/limited - not just T2.
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Sometimes "innovation" means "stealing another's secret before anyone else can."
Jaelan- Freudian slip I suppose ( I think about you CONSTANTLY!ZORS!!!).
While not a blue player, I love blue and black combo. Therefore, i Too am hoping for a good Blue incarnation and the Blue Walker... to see how UB control shapes up ^^
Jaelan .... i mean Jace *ahem* is my New best friend if he costs only 3 mana ^^
ROFL
Regarding "hideaway"... I'm not really sure I like it. I guess I'll have to think on it some more.... but at first glance, it looks like you're removing a card from the game and possibly decreasing your chance of ever playing it, or making it more difficult to play. Sure, I guess you could say it thins your deck if you use it to remove unnecessary cards (cards irrelevant or less relevant to the matchup), but I think that might be its best use. Depends on the rest of the cycle, but this green one seems fit for limited play at best. I could be wrong, though.
Hmmmm, very strange and probably really good as well. I must agree that the keyword seems unnecessary but it's no worse than Clash. It should be interesting to see if it appears on card types other than lands. Maybe in the next set we'll see some creatures with Hideaway?
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I really wish Wizards would get out of the CIPT rut on lands, though. CIPT is a really strong drawback; it's enough so that duals with that, and no other drawback, are considered unplayably bad. The shocklands pointed in a good direction here; I wish they'd start using "~ deals 1 damage to you" or "Your opponent gains 3 life" or whatever to make non-basics that don't completely stunt your mana production.
I really wish Wizards would get out of the CIPT rut on lands, though. CIPT is a really strong drawback; it's enough so that duals with that, and no other drawback, are considered unplayably bad. The shocklands pointed in a good direction here; I wish they'd start using "~ deals 1 damage to you" or "Your opponent gains 3 life" or whatever to make non-basics that don't completely stunt your mana production.
Actually, I think they need to strike a balance between CITP tapped lands and lands that hurt you. Too many of the first category and it's like you give your opponent a free time walk, since you're always going to be one turn behind on the curve. Too many of the second category and you take away far too much of your own life to fight against aggro competitively. THIS is why the shocklands were so good. They could function as either a CITP tapped land or a painland, giving you whichever drawback mattered less.
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If this card didn't have CIPT it would be extremely strong. Plenty of decks can afford CIPT like slower decks and what not.
Sure they can't run 20+ CIPT lands but if your first 2 turns aren't much its really not so bad.
The problem with this one is a slower deck prob won't be sporting 10+power on there board. A faster deck might be able to pull that out but then they won't a CIPT land. Basically the land requires a niche deck which is nice not just thrown into every aggro or control deck with green.
Shocklands are extremely high in the curve of Dual Lands positioned just below real Dual Lands. I don't think were gonna see a lot of the CIPT unless you take 2 damage thing. Normally that drawback is far too light in a good 95% of the games.
Keep the good stuff coming, thanks as always Hydro for the great job.
Mosswort Bridge: Wow it's a land with an Impulse effect and which circumvents a casting cost on the provisio that you have 10 power worth of creatures in play(not hard in green). Very good in Limited, probably not playable in aggro decks, but in mid range, combo or control it should see some decent constructed play.
Hideaway: an Impulse 187 effect, seems to be land exclusive and probably tap land exclusive, one strange thing is the fact that it wasn't worded Hideaway X, instead of using 4 as a static value, I thought wizards had stopped using static values for keywords like this.
Teasers:
-Blue walker +2 loyalty, but from the hint it sounds like there's a reason(probably it has very low starting loyalty and high costs for the other abilities).
-insane reusable elemental mana, could be good but then again if it costs a lot and forces you to add it each turn it could go from being an enabler to being a creator of mana burn.
- Guile sounds like it will be the best of the incarnations if it truly does work well in a counter control deck.
-4/4 giant for 5 which I'm guessing has a 187 ability which reads "when ~ comes into play it deals X damage to each non-giant creature where X is the number of giants you control(or possibly in play)", sounds pretty good whatever way you slice it.
Am I the only one not impressed by the land?
....I can't quite put my finger on why....it just doesn't do anything for me...
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(about the English language) It's kinda like a raft that was cobbled together from parts of three different boats and since then has been kept barely afloat with crude repairs every time a leak appeared.
Wizards has used some other interesting drawbacks for lands in the past, but for some reason they seem to always come back to the same few, with comes into play tapped as the leader by far. I'd like to see more lands where the drawback is to bounce another land you control or maybe remove a card in your hand from the game.
As for the hideaway land, it doesn't seem that difficult to meet the condition. Against decks without loads of removal, getting a pair of Tarmogoyfs or a Greater Gargadon plus pretty much anything else shouldn't be too hard (and playing another GG for free sounds great). We'll have to wait and see what the other conditions are.
Am I the only one not impressed by the land?
....I can't quite put my finger on why....it just doesn't do anything for me...
I was impressed until I reread it, I thought it put a copy of the card on the stack for ya, that woulda rocked. But it doesn't so its not so great. What card would you theoretically want to hide there and play after you got enough creatures to actually do stuff with?
Sweet, finally some useful blue stuff. Good to have something I can actually care about.
While the land may not look impressive at first, there is a rule of utmost importance that needs to be kept in mind: free ANYTHING on a land is good. We've seen how good CIPT lands with bonuses are in TSP block (Tolaria West, Llanowar Reborn, and Keldon Megaliths primarily). These lands let you cast spells for free! Sure they may be hard to get them to go off, but if your deck can manage it even some of the time then these lands should definitely go in.
here goes, Hydro's Lorwyn Teasers!:
- One of the Blue walker's abilities puts 2 loyalty counters on him, instead of the one we've seen on the other walkers.... you'll see why soon enough.
- There is an uncommon red elemental that can add RRRRRRRR to your mana pool every turn!
- The Blue incarnation (Guile) is a counterspell players dream, your opponents spells become your own!!!
- Finally, there is a 4/4 Giant for 5 mana which damages all non-giants thanks to his brothers, when he hits play.
I hope you liked those, should open the way for some great speculation.
Anyways, onto the card spoiler.
Mosswort Bridge
Land
Hideaway (this land comes into play tapped. When it does, look at the top 4 cards of your library, remove one from the game face down, then put the rest on the bottom of your library.)
Tap: Add G to your mana pool.
G,Tap: You may play the removed card without paying its mana cost if creatures you control have total power 10 or greater.
Rare.
Yes, it appears this keyword is the last of the five keywords in Lorwyn. There is a cycle of these rare lands, each with a different trigger for using the ability to play the 'hidden' card. (For example, the blue land requires you to have less than 20 cards in your library).
I must say I really like this design, and I can see any green deck using this card quite happily with good results. It stands to reason that not evey deck will be able to take advantage of the 'free spell', but those that can will do so often.
I'm uncertain on some of the other triggers for being able to play the ability, but if they're all in line from what we know of Mosswort Bridge and the Blue land in the cycle, they should be somewhat sort after for any deck play ing those (combinations of) colours.
I do hope you're enjoying the rumor season this time around, and believe me when I say there's soooooooo much more to look forward to. Also, the Rumor Gods listen closely to your requests for cards, so remain vigilant (Especially Trainwalker09 ;)) you have been heard my brothers...
Enjoy, and please discuss!
Now this elemental, are you using MaRo's "can"? I mean, it could be something like "At the begining of your precombat main phase, add R to your mana pool for each elemental you control" and that technically "can" produce RRRRRRRR. That or it's something like "Tap, sacrifice an elemental, discard a card at random: Add RRRRRRRR to your mana pool".
Now for guile.. counterspell player's dream eh? Here's my guess:
Guile 3UUU
Creature - Elemental Incarnation
Flash
Whenever a player plays a spell that targets another creature you control, gain control of that spell. You may choose new targets for it.
Standard incarnation ability
6/6
The giant sounds like this:
Footstomp Giant 3RR
Creature- Giant
When Footstomp Giant comes into play, it deals x damage to each non-giant creature, where X is the number of giants you control
4/4
The land... seems iffy. Sure, it can let you get an impulsed card for pretty much free, but only after you're basically already winning. I mean, the best use I can see for it is queue up something that protects all your creatures, or brings you back from a wrath, like Caller of the Claw, and then have some insurance when you overextend to 10 power. Or just play 2 Tarmogoyf. Interested to see what the other cards are. Some guesses?
White: If you have fewer than 3 (5?) life
Black: If your opponent has no cards in hand
Red: If there are 5 sorcery cards in your graveyard?
The thing is, unless they are more easily obtainable than the ones we know, they're not going to see much play. Who wants to sacrifice their lands coming into play untapped for a slight chance of playing a card on the cheap? Seem very good in limited though, as 20 cards in the library is a common occurrance, as is 10 power of creatures durring a stalemate.
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i really wonder what the red one will do
we have heard about a "mana drain" type card hydro, any info on this for us?
i'm betting on like -10 take another turn
*Starts to Hulk up*
Jaelan's ability must be really bad as far as what it does for you. To give it two loyalty counters (although, maybe they're taking into account the huge Blue advantage of protecting planeswalkers-- IE counterspells, bouncing it back to hand, etc.) is a steep thing, especially since it's the only one we've seen that does that...
Great job and Hydro.
EDIT: And haven't they said in the past that if a number is involved in a keyword, it's better to template it as "keyword X"? Why is *four* cards part of the ability. What a mess.
cmon widit!
interesting design nonetheless
I was thinking maybe you get two because the ability sort of hurts you...
like return a land to your hand..
imaging stasis
I will return this tapped land to my hand and then put it into play to pay for stasis ( ofcourse you can always end of turn return stasis too) just a thought , not a fact
Did hydro get a job at wizards or something? I mean really, he has been going off an awful lot lately!
Card: [card]
Hybrid: :symub: = order doesn't matter
Spoiler: [spoiler]
Deck: [deck]
LOL, I think you mean "Jace" ... but I appreciate the fact that you've mistaken me for the blue planeswalker (maybe I should change my avatar back to match my banner).
Anyway, I was thinking the same thing.. what could possibly allow for Jace to get +2 counters? My first thought was that maybe he's only got 1 loyalty to start with... which will be fine with me, as long as he doesn't cost more than UUU or 1UU and the abilities are worth playing.
(Offers a prayer to the rumor gods that we get the scoop on Jace SOOOOOON!!)
I'm also really hyped to find out more about the blue incarnation (another prayer)!
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While not a blue player, I love blue and black combo. Therefore, i Too am hoping for a good Blue incarnation and the Blue Walker... to see how UB control shapes up ^^
Jaelan .... i mean Jace *ahem* is my New best friend if he costs only 3 mana ^^
ROFL
Regarding "hideaway"... I'm not really sure I like it. I guess I'll have to think on it some more.... but at first glance, it looks like you're removing a card from the game and possibly decreasing your chance of ever playing it, or making it more difficult to play. Sure, I guess you could say it thins your deck if you use it to remove unnecessary cards (cards irrelevant or less relevant to the matchup), but I think that might be its best use. Depends on the rest of the cycle, but this green one seems fit for limited play at best. I could be wrong, though.
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I really wish Wizards would get out of the CIPT rut on lands, though. CIPT is a really strong drawback; it's enough so that duals with that, and no other drawback, are considered unplayably bad. The shocklands pointed in a good direction here; I wish they'd start using "~ deals 1 damage to you" or "Your opponent gains 3 life" or whatever to make non-basics that don't completely stunt your mana production.
Actually, I think they need to strike a balance between CITP tapped lands and lands that hurt you. Too many of the first category and it's like you give your opponent a free time walk, since you're always going to be one turn behind on the curve. Too many of the second category and you take away far too much of your own life to fight against aggro competitively. THIS is why the shocklands were so good. They could function as either a CITP tapped land or a painland, giving you whichever drawback mattered less.
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Sure they can't run 20+ CIPT lands but if your first 2 turns aren't much its really not so bad.
The problem with this one is a slower deck prob won't be sporting 10+power on there board. A faster deck might be able to pull that out but then they won't a CIPT land. Basically the land requires a niche deck which is nice not just thrown into every aggro or control deck with green.
Shocklands are extremely high in the curve of Dual Lands positioned just below real Dual Lands. I don't think were gonna see a lot of the CIPT unless you take 2 damage thing. Normally that drawback is far too light in a good 95% of the games.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Mosswort Bridge: Wow it's a land with an Impulse effect and which circumvents a casting cost on the provisio that you have 10 power worth of creatures in play(not hard in green). Very good in Limited, probably not playable in aggro decks, but in mid range, combo or control it should see some decent constructed play.
Hideaway: an Impulse 187 effect, seems to be land exclusive and probably tap land exclusive, one strange thing is the fact that it wasn't worded Hideaway X, instead of using 4 as a static value, I thought wizards had stopped using static values for keywords like this.
Teasers:
-Blue walker +2 loyalty, but from the hint it sounds like there's a reason(probably it has very low starting loyalty and high costs for the other abilities).
-insane reusable elemental mana, could be good but then again if it costs a lot and forces you to add it each turn it could go from being an enabler to being a creator of mana burn.
- Guile sounds like it will be the best of the incarnations if it truly does work well in a counter control deck.
-4/4 giant for 5 which I'm guessing has a 187 ability which reads "when ~ comes into play it deals X damage to each non-giant creature where X is the number of giants you control(or possibly in play)", sounds pretty good whatever way you slice it.
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....I can't quite put my finger on why....it just doesn't do anything for me...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the hideaway land, it doesn't seem that difficult to meet the condition. Against decks without loads of removal, getting a pair of Tarmogoyfs or a Greater Gargadon plus pretty much anything else shouldn't be too hard (and playing another GG for free sounds great). We'll have to wait and see what the other conditions are.
I was impressed until I reread it, I thought it put a copy of the card on the stack for ya, that woulda rocked. But it doesn't so its not so great. What card would you theoretically want to hide there and play after you got enough creatures to actually do stuff with?
Sweet, finally some useful blue stuff. Good to have something I can actually care about.
Control is the ultimate expression of power.
The land doesn't really excite me at all. If one has a not so difficult to obtain trigger then maybe...