Oh well, now we know what the "next evolution of a popular Mirage cycle" is - and is the charms once more. The UUU in the mana cost is steep - since we can presumably assume the cost is fixed throughout the cycle, Lorwyn may have more than its fair share of XCCC spells, not obviously ideal in a block with a multicolour tribal theme. This one will depend on how good mono-U control turns out to be.
My first thought too was that counter+card draw was the obvious default configuration for this card, but in the context of utility in a control deck the powerful counterbounce may edge it out. It's disappointing that they didn't find a better option than twiddling everything for one of the other options, but as anyone who's been saved by a Dawn Charm knows, Foggy effects can be very useful in a pinch when they're on cards you've included in the deck for a different purpose.
All in all, a nice preview, but I'm starting to get troubled by just how low in originality most of what we've been shown (aside from Teeg) is. Of course, every set has a lot of derivatives, especially in cycles, but in quick succession we've had a tribal Lord, a big monster with colour-standard evasion and a reprint ability, the Mirari's counterpart and an 'evolved' Charm. Mostly cards selected for previews showcase a greater degree of novelty in their designs.
I don't know. This card sounds to good. Can we get some confirmations about the source or maybe some scans... no, wait a minute. It was in a Flores article.
Ok, so...
This card totally sucks because it's four mana and it can't kill my opponent on the third turn... no, no wait a minute. Blue usually doesn't go in for turn three kills these days.
Hmmm...
Well, it's a great card!! I usually end up running only two or three 4cc counters because I'm afraid of clogging my hand. But this thing is so versatile I can run four, which is what you really want to do with counters. Lorwyn block blue is assembling a pretty impressive counterspell suite with Familiar's Trickery, Fairy Spellmesser and this. You can even use Cryptic Command to pick up the Spellmesser to use over again. Fun tricksy permission merfolk decks. Aces!!
Why is everybody saying it is a cantrip counterspell?
You can either counter a spell OR draw a card..
Not both.
I don't like this card, it does 4 mediocre uncommon effects together in 1 expensive rare.
You will end up using this as a counterspell, and that is pretty bad for 1UUU. Maybe 1 out of 20 times it will be a bounce-spell for 1UUU which is bad too.
How is the mana cost restrictive in terms of the crazy annoying blue control decks it fits in?
Most any control deck that plays blue plays PLENTY of blue. Hitting three blue mana, especially with storage lands, should be a piece of cake in the decks that wnt to run this card.
Yeah, it makes sense to say that a triple color costing card makes it restrictive, but I meant in terms of any high caliber decks it may find its way into.
All in all, a very fun card.
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Why is everybody saying it is a cantrip counterspell?
You can either counter a spell OR draw a card..
Not both.
I don't like this card, it does 4 mediocre uncommon effects together in 1 expensive rare.
You will end up using this as a counterspell, and that is pretty bad for 1UUU. Maybe 1 out of 20 times it will be a bounce-spell for 1UUU which is bad too.
Um, dude, you get to choose TWO. Making it less bad and dang near ridonk. I want 4 of this whole cycle already
[quote=awnDReya;/comments/5250401]I'm sorry if this has been said before, but has anyone else noticed that the dual colored tribes are exactly like the ones in the Ravnica set? I mean, come on, red-white giants (boros),
Remarkable, isn't it? A fast red-white weenie/burn guild is exactly like what are so far a bunch of big, slow, overcosted creatures.
green-black elves (golgari),
Which from what we know have no reanimation theme.
black-blue faeries (dimir),
Yep, lots of small flier aggro decks came out of Dimir, didn't they?
...and so forth.
Magic has five colours. That means it has ten two-colour combinations. Rav happened to use all ten. So any two-colour theme is going to share one of the same combinations as a Rav guild. That doesn't mean it will play the same; the limited indications we have so far are that they won't.
The already said it was. I'm gonna say this is going to see no play due to A) it beeing a 4 casting cost counter, and B) the tipple blue in it. This card is pretty unplayable except in mono blue. I rather play cancel and dismiss.
Dude, you can play this in a deck with both Cancel and Dismiss. Oh, and that new counter that lets you bounce one of your own creatures. You can just make a deck with nothing but counterspells but this guy gives you a little extra versatility to boot.
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Dude, you can play this in a deck with both Cancel and Dismiss. Oh, and that new counter that lets you bounce one of your own creatures. You can just make a deck with nothing but counterspells but this guy gives you a little extra versatility to boot.
I don't think thus card is going to make a "deck with nothing but counterspells" viable, but it will help any deck that includes counters in some capacity. I'll give that it's a better Dismiss, but I don't think it's a fair comparison to Cancel.
Choose two - Search your library for a land card and put it into play tapped; or target creature gets +4/+4 until end of turn; or return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand; or put a 3/3 Elephant creature token into play.
Hm. That actually came out more powerful than I thought it'd be.
I am going to guess that each color will get a final 'in color added on ability', (barring just making everything an optional cantrip) and greens very well could be a landsearch.
Anywho, the blue card is quite amazing, and fits nicely in any Mystic Snake deck. As it is, the UU counter is great for Snakes, this can do that too...and more.
My U/G aggro/control sometimes has trouble against aggro, so this card is great. Tap them out/something and go in ftw.
If people could play Gigadrowse and make it a game-breaking card, people WILL play this.
Mattreis makes a good point...I played with Treva's Charm in my Questing Pheldagriff control deck back in the day.
That was probably my favorite deck ever...actually.
My current U/G Mystic Snake deck is kind of trying to relive that...hehe.
What do you guys think about the other four in the cycle? Any ideas?
It seems reasonable that each individual ability will be no more than 1C/CC as a separate card (as Counterspell was originally, and as it is still costed for the basic effect in most variants), ruling out (for instance) Stone Rain. The blue one gives us 2cc effects across the board. Let's start red since that's the one everyone's working themselves up about. Staple red abilities for 2 mana? Right off the bat I can give you the first three options: 3 damage to creature/player (Volcanic Hammer), 2 damage to all creatures (Pyroclasm, likely minus the anti-player effect because the charm's an instant), destroy target artifact (Shatter). Someone suggested redirection, which is a good fit for the fourth ability, but that has no obvious synergy with the others. Fork? Probably not. Not sure on this.
What I'd like to see as the green one:
Verdant Command (or whatever) 1GGG
Instant
Choose two - put a 2/2 green Bear creature token into play; search your library for a basic land card and put it into play tapped; target creature gets +3/+3 and trample until end of turn; or search your library for a creature card and put in on top of your library.
This combines Grizzly Bears (1G), Rampant Growth (1G), Predator's Strike (1G) and Wordly Tutor (1G), all fairly standard green effects. Naturalize is another possibility, but would outshine the almost inevitable red artifact kill and white enchantment kill on their respective commands.
EDIT: Like the Regrowth idea someone else posted - as a card costing twice as much, it's not outside the bounds of possibility that a full Regrowth will be included (after all, the adjusted version of that card, Recollect, costs 2G, while Cancel costs 1UU). It certainly won't be Raise Dead (just return a creature) as that's a staple black ability.
This is a monocolor deck's card, and they're pushing monocolor decks. Granted, I expect the meta to stay similar to the previous standard, but chances are it will be ok.
This is a fun card. I like cards that give you a ton of options when you cast them, like the Invasion charms. Cryptic Command can save you in so many different situations, I guarantee it will be played in block and most likely standard as well.
This is a monocolor deck's card, and they're pushing monocolor decks. Granted, I expect the meta to stay similar to the previous standard, but chances are it will be ok.
It certainly seems this way, but before people chide you by flashing Teferi (u c wut i did thur?) all over their posts, I'd say that monocolor decks aren't so much pushed as are the, um, tribalcolor decks are being pushed.
EDIT: Also, I'm pumped to see the :1mana::symg::symg::symg: Charm! I agree with land fetch and pump, and we'll probably see trample ('cause R&D will forget they've already given us Overrun :/) and... uh... saprolings?
This is a monocolor deck's card, and they're pushing monocolor decks. Granted, I expect the meta to stay similar to the previous standard, but chances are it will be ok.
What? This is a set with a new batch of dual lands (immediately following a batch in Future Sight) and tribal themes that are explicitly multicoloured (to the point of having gold legends for each tribe). How are they pushing monocolour decks? I've never known Wizards to push monocolour decks in any format, save possibly as an incidental effect of the monocolour nature of Onslaught tribes.
Wow... Thank you wizards... I do so love it when you build my decks for me. This cycle will be INSANE:o!!! At least there is everyones favorite little squatter Mr. Teeg... Still I cannot wait to see the other variants.
3 blue mana is a bit steep, but in a blue control deck tapping all creatures your opponent controls AND countering a spell is pretty darn good for 1UUU.
and if your opponent doesnt have any creatures you can draw a card and bounce his favorite land, or draw a card and counter his burn spell, etc etc.
Wow... Thank you wizards... I do so love it when you build my decks for me. This cycle will be INSANE:o!!! At least there is everyones favorite little squatter Mr. Teeg... Still I cannot wait to see the other variants.
This is a very good point - these commands were put right at four mana so Kithkin.dec can mock them like Teferi does.
Like I said to Seds, this is super pushed. The versatility alone makes this card an auto-include in any mono-blue deck, even most in Legacy. With the 4/4 merfolk championer in play, this card reads "you win" since you can tap their blockers and just attack freely, gaining more extra turns. But that's nothing compared to Extended, where Dismiss would be strong enough already. Uber-tempo card, if you want, by bouncing say a land AND tapping out all their creatures... great against a temp beatdown type deck. Card advantage galore by killing their spell and cantripping OR by setting up a bad attack/block with the bounce.
People saying "three blue mana will make it unplayable" are confused. Blue doesn't care about paying blue mana. Blue cares about speed (it's an instant) efficiency (comes online turn 4 without acceleration), and options (this not only does four things, it does a COMBINATION of two of them).
Probably a $10 card, give or take depending on the support it gets in LOR.
...... and i thought they say they wanted to tone down blue. =.=
i don't see how printing a free counter and a multi purpose control card could be consider as toning down blue >_>
Well the "free" counter isn't free. And blue always gets good utility after some of the more powerful utility gets pushed out of standard. (Say for Remand and Repeal not to mention losing Mana Leak and Rewind in tenth) This is just a balancing act for the power that I assume all the colors appear to be gaining.
@r_e: Yeah its going to be some money. Gah its going to be a pain getting these, if at all. Guess I am drafting L,L,L for the rest of the year.
[card=Dismal Failure]"Two magi could trade spells all day and never crown a victor.
The real battle is not one of power but of will.
If your confidence breaks, so too shall you." —Venser[/card]
This card is so strong and cool, MUST PLAY!:rolleyes: Anyway, with so many good control options, I believe Mono-Blue-Pickles just became standard viable:cool:
This card is so strong and cool, MUST PLAY!:rolleyes: Anyway, with so many good control options, I believe Mono-Blue-Pickles just became standard viable:cool:
That deck will face the same nightmare mono-blue did after the Mirrodin bannings - turn 2 troll ascetic. Ni e of Wizards to make me re-live that trauma
Oh well, now we know what the "next evolution of a popular Mirage cycle" is - and is the charms once more. The UUU in the mana cost is steep - since we can presumably assume the cost is fixed throughout the cycle, Lorwyn may have more than its fair share of XCCC spells, not obviously ideal in a block with a multicolour tribal theme. This one will depend on how good mono-U control turns out to be.
My first thought too was that counter+card draw was the obvious default configuration for this card, but in the context of utility in a control deck the powerful counterbounce may edge it out. It's disappointing that they didn't find a better option than twiddling everything for one of the other options, but as anyone who's been saved by a Dawn Charm knows, Foggy effects can be very useful in a pinch when they're on cards you've included in the deck for a different purpose.
All in all, a nice preview, but I'm starting to get troubled by just how low in originality most of what we've been shown (aside from Teeg) is. Of course, every set has a lot of derivatives, especially in cycles, but in quick succession we've had a tribal Lord, a big monster with colour-standard evasion and a reprint ability, the Mirari's counterpart and an 'evolved' Charm. Mostly cards selected for previews showcase a greater degree of novelty in their designs.
Phil
Ok, so...
This card totally sucks because it's four mana and it can't kill my opponent on the third turn... no, no wait a minute. Blue usually doesn't go in for turn three kills these days.
Hmmm...
Well, it's a great card!! I usually end up running only two or three 4cc counters because I'm afraid of clogging my hand. But this thing is so versatile I can run four, which is what you really want to do with counters. Lorwyn block blue is assembling a pretty impressive counterspell suite with Familiar's Trickery, Fairy Spellmesser and this. You can even use Cryptic Command to pick up the Spellmesser to use over again. Fun tricksy permission merfolk decks. Aces!!
BB
You can either counter a spell OR draw a card..
Not both.
I don't like this card, it does 4 mediocre uncommon effects together in 1 expensive rare.
You will end up using this as a counterspell, and that is pretty bad for 1UUU. Maybe 1 out of 20 times it will be a bounce-spell for 1UUU which is bad too.
Most any control deck that plays blue plays PLENTY of blue. Hitting three blue mana, especially with storage lands, should be a piece of cake in the decks that wnt to run this card.
Yeah, it makes sense to say that a triple color costing card makes it restrictive, but I meant in terms of any high caliber decks it may find its way into.
All in all, a very fun card.
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Um, dude, you get to choose TWO. Making it less bad and dang near ridonk. I want 4 of this whole cycle already
Remarkable, isn't it? A fast red-white weenie/burn guild is exactly like what are so far a bunch of big, slow, overcosted creatures.
Which from what we know have no reanimation theme.
Yep, lots of small flier aggro decks came out of Dimir, didn't they?
...and so forth.
Magic has five colours. That means it has ten two-colour combinations. Rav happened to use all ten. So any two-colour theme is going to share one of the same combinations as a Rav guild. That doesn't mean it will play the same; the limited indications we have so far are that they won't.
Phil
Ussually it says choose one, so I thought it said it again.
So actually this card is awesome.
Maybe we'll see a cantrip *** ^^
Dude, you can play this in a deck with both Cancel and Dismiss. Oh, and that new counter that lets you bounce one of your own creatures. You can just make a deck with nothing but counterspells but this guy gives you a little extra versatility to boot.
There is an imposter among us...
I don't think thus card is going to make a "deck with nothing but counterspells" viable, but it will help any deck that includes counters in some capacity. I'll give that it's a better Dismiss, but I don't think it's a fair comparison to Cancel.
I am going to guess that each color will get a final 'in color added on ability', (barring just making everything an optional cantrip) and greens very well could be a landsearch.
Anywho, the blue card is quite amazing, and fits nicely in any Mystic Snake deck. As it is, the UU counter is great for Snakes, this can do that too...and more.
My U/G aggro/control sometimes has trouble against aggro, so this card is great. Tap them out/something and go in ftw.
If people could play Gigadrowse and make it a game-breaking card, people WILL play this.
Mattreis makes a good point...I played with Treva's Charm in my Questing Pheldagriff control deck back in the day.
That was probably my favorite deck ever...actually.
My current U/G Mystic Snake deck is kind of trying to relive that...hehe.
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It seems reasonable that each individual ability will be no more than 1C/CC as a separate card (as Counterspell was originally, and as it is still costed for the basic effect in most variants), ruling out (for instance) Stone Rain. The blue one gives us 2cc effects across the board. Let's start red since that's the one everyone's working themselves up about. Staple red abilities for 2 mana? Right off the bat I can give you the first three options: 3 damage to creature/player (Volcanic Hammer), 2 damage to all creatures (Pyroclasm, likely minus the anti-player effect because the charm's an instant), destroy target artifact (Shatter). Someone suggested redirection, which is a good fit for the fourth ability, but that has no obvious synergy with the others. Fork? Probably not. Not sure on this.
What I'd like to see as the green one:
Verdant Command (or whatever) 1GGG
Instant
Choose two - put a 2/2 green Bear creature token into play; search your library for a basic land card and put it into play tapped; target creature gets +3/+3 and trample until end of turn; or search your library for a creature card and put in on top of your library.
This combines Grizzly Bears (1G), Rampant Growth (1G), Predator's Strike (1G) and Wordly Tutor (1G), all fairly standard green effects. Naturalize is another possibility, but would outshine the almost inevitable red artifact kill and white enchantment kill on their respective commands.
EDIT: Like the Regrowth idea someone else posted - as a card costing twice as much, it's not outside the bounds of possibility that a full Regrowth will be included (after all, the adjusted version of that card, Recollect, costs 2G, while Cancel costs 1UU). It certainly won't be Raise Dead (just return a creature) as that's a staple black ability.
Phil
This is a Shivan Ampersand
EDIT: Also, I'm pumped to see the :1mana::symg::symg::symg: Charm! I agree with land fetch and pump, and we'll probably see trample ('cause R&D will forget they've already given us Overrun :/) and... uh... saprolings?
What? This is a set with a new batch of dual lands (immediately following a batch in Future Sight) and tribal themes that are explicitly multicoloured (to the point of having gold legends for each tribe). How are they pushing monocolour decks? I've never known Wizards to push monocolour decks in any format, save possibly as an incidental effect of the monocolour nature of Onslaught tribes.
Phil
i don't see how printing a free counter and a multi purpose control card could be consider as toning down blue >_>
cookie wizards of the the simic
The extendo siggy thingy currently dead
and if your opponent doesnt have any creatures you can draw a card and bounce his favorite land, or draw a card and counter his burn spell, etc etc.
very nice card, i hope they print more like this.
Like I said to Seds, this is super pushed. The versatility alone makes this card an auto-include in any mono-blue deck, even most in Legacy. With the 4/4 merfolk championer in play, this card reads "you win" since you can tap their blockers and just attack freely, gaining more extra turns. But that's nothing compared to Extended, where Dismiss would be strong enough already. Uber-tempo card, if you want, by bouncing say a land AND tapping out all their creatures... great against a temp beatdown type deck. Card advantage galore by killing their spell and cantripping OR by setting up a bad attack/block with the bounce.
People saying "three blue mana will make it unplayable" are confused. Blue doesn't care about paying blue mana. Blue cares about speed (it's an instant) efficiency (comes online turn 4 without acceleration), and options (this not only does four things, it does a COMBINATION of two of them).
Probably a $10 card, give or take depending on the support it gets in LOR.
.
Well the "free" counter isn't free. And blue always gets good utility after some of the more powerful utility gets pushed out of standard. (Say for Remand and Repeal not to mention losing Mana Leak and Rewind in tenth) This is just a balancing act for the power that I assume all the colors appear to be gaining.
@r_e: Yeah its going to be some money. Gah its going to be a pain getting these, if at all. Guess I am drafting L,L,L for the rest of the year.
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If your confidence breaks, so too shall you."
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That deck will face the same nightmare mono-blue did after the Mirrodin bannings - turn 2 troll ascetic. Ni e of Wizards to make me re-live that trauma