BlueNu has it right. This card is superior to both Faith's Fetters and Temporal Isolation. Temporal Isolation has the advantage of having Flash, but neither of the cards deal with static or triggered abilities, with Teferi heading the list. Quite possibly Teeg will be the new 'Teferi', at least in the 'white had no way of stopping its ability' department.
Ironically, the deck archetype that Fetters is best against is the archetype that Ring is worst against; i.e., fast aggro. Against a deck that is mostly interchangeable parts (e.g., decks situated around Empty the Warrens), Fetters works better.
However, in Limited at the very least, I'd rather have the Ring than the Fetters.
I sort of disagree.. If Fetters costed 3 mana it probably wouldn't have needed the life gain aspect.
What happens if you have no permanents in play?
It will be a recurring loop forever.
actually, i don't think so.
after it removes itself from the game in the first place, the rest of its rules text doesn't apply because the card is no longer in play. no loop.
Funny how everyone thinks something different when they see a card for the first time.
My first response was a one-shot Parallax Wave. (Maybe because I used to enjoy that spell so very much..:) ) Ring out a fattie, ***, then Patrician's Scorn (for free? so kind...;) ) Of course it certainly isn't as straight up powerful as the wave...but then again..it also isn't a dead card if your opponent doesn't have creatures out for some reason, as it can also be used to RFG a PW, Enchantment, Artifact, etc. Ups and downs..but certainly all sorts of neat tricks. Certainly fun in Limited and a great little tool for a constructed deck too. Good job WOTC.
actually, i don't think so.
after it removes itself from the ganme in the first place, the rest of its rules text doesn't apply because the card is no longer in play. no loop.
Considering the fact it can't remove itself at all, I don't see that being an issue. However, with current rulings, state-based effects like this will trigger before it, so if it didn't have the 'another permanent' wording, then it would in fact return and remove itself infinitely.
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Wow...perfectly balanced card, probably Constructed worthy, it helps white (which is currently very weak) and a Limited force, you could draft tons of these.
Gogo White control. This sounds like a very White card to me, and I'm excited. It's better then I would have thought when MaRo teased it in Monday. It's an enchantment, so Red and Black cards can't get it back (Sans you destroying it). It's got offensive and defensive applications. It's great that White has a way to get rid of Planeswalkers. Maybe we'll see what the other colors offer in that position.
Huh. I don't know that I'd call it a bomb, or say that it makes Disenchant more important, or anything of the sort, but it's definitely a solid 1st pick in limited that will likely see some constructed play (assuming, of course, that White gets some other good stuff). It's certainly an interesting card, and well designed. May I see many of these in every Lorwyn draft I take part in...
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Yep, it's a weird combination of Oubliette and Vindicate. In the casual group I play with, enchantments are usually gone in two turns. In limited, tho, this thing is first pick-quality easily. Jeez, Anything-B-Gone for 2W (totally splashable)? Wow.
This is a very, very good common. If you can find a way to bounce it it's insane, but as it is, it's awesome. Enchantments are notoriously hard to remove. This might very well see heavy constructed play.
Considering the fact it can't remove itself at all, I don't see that being an issue. However, with current rulings, state-based effects like this will trigger before it, so if it didn't have the 'another permanent' wording, then it would in fact return and remove itself infinitely.
What state-based effect? It not being in play? I'm under the impression that the second ability will trigger and do nothing, since it can't see itself as already "removed from the game" while it's being "removed from the game" (leaving play).
As of right now there is no "another" on the rules text of the card, so it can target itself. But if I'm right then that wording wouldn't be needed.
That's a pretty cool card actually. Enchantment destruction is already in some sideboards but forcing your opponent to waste deck slots to put it in is not bad.
wow, what a disappointment. not only does it create a loop if you play three in a row with no other targets, it's also pretty damn mediocre. at least in constructed, there's always a lot of enchantment hate, so i don't think it'll be worth it. this will probably be broken with CIP triggers. or maybe not, who knows.
What? What game are you playing? Nobody plays enchantment hate maindeck, and most people don't play it sideboard either. Besides, this is really efficient, but it's not a big enough effect to actually bring tech against. It's perfect.
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Well, in my eyes (and I talk about Limitide right now), the power of the card depends on good enchantment removal in the set. And even after that, I don't think opponent'd have it (removal, that is) in the maindeck. Soo, we got a perfect card for BDM's Prerelease primer - really powerful common ^^
What? What game are you playing? Nobody plays enchantment hate maindeck, and most people don't play it sideboard either. Besides, this is really efficient, but it's not a big enough effect to actually bring tech against. It's perfect.
I think you're right.
Also, if this is the only enchantment you run and they board in enchantment hate, it can really hose their sideboarding. I'd probably top it out at 3 copies just for this reason.
With the ability to have zenergy with a bounce in response to its come into play ability (or sac effect, but that is only really good instead of insane)... it is not only strictly better than saltblast, it is strictly better than saltblast if saltblast costed 1W less.
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There are 9 pages here, so forgive me if this has already been said, but this was the first thing i thought of when i saw the card...
If you remember back to the nightmare mechanic from the Torment set, if you can bounce a perm. with both C.I.P and L.P. abilities while the C.I.P is still on the stack, the L.P ability will resolve first and be countered, and the C.I.P ability will resolve next, effectively removing the target form the game forever.
Yes.
This works.
Now Blue/White has yet another powerful trick for its disposal.
No, because Saltblast is not vulnerable to enchantment removal. Strictly better actually has a technical meaning, and ignoring it so you can say, "It's a lot better," doesn't change that.
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With the ability to have zenergy with a bounce in response to its come into play ability (or sac effect, but that is only really good instead of insane)... it is not only strictly better than saltblast, it is strictly better than saltblast if saltblast costed 1W less.
Strictly better basically means it's a better version of the same card. For example, Wild Mongrel is strictly better than Grizzly Bears. It doesn't matter how much better a card is than another one, if they function differently, it is not strictly better.
I was pretty exicted about it at first but really it is just arrest in limited - a little worse if there are lots of CIP effects and a little better if there are a lot of static effects (sliver type effects or whatever). Yeah, it deals with Planeswalkers, artifacts and enchantments but creatures are usually just more important in limited.
In constructed - I think I like faith's fetters better but it might get played.
I think the CIP and bounce trick is more cute than useful - of course I have been wrong before.
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I sort of disagree.. If Fetters costed 3 mana it probably wouldn't have needed the life gain aspect.
-E
actually, i don't think so.
after it removes itself from the game in the first place, the rest of its rules text doesn't apply because the card is no longer in play. no loop.
Also explains why Faceless Butcher was a timeshifted card.
My first response was a one-shot Parallax Wave. (Maybe because I used to enjoy that spell so very much..:) ) Ring out a fattie, ***, then Patrician's Scorn (for free? so kind...;) ) Of course it certainly isn't as straight up powerful as the wave...but then again..it also isn't a dead card if your opponent doesn't have creatures out for some reason, as it can also be used to RFG a PW, Enchantment, Artifact, etc. Ups and downs..but certainly all sorts of neat tricks. Certainly fun in Limited and a great little tool for a constructed deck too. Good job WOTC.
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Considering the fact it can't remove itself at all, I don't see that being an issue. However, with current rulings, state-based effects like this will trigger before it, so if it didn't have the 'another permanent' wording, then it would in fact return and remove itself infinitely.
The only thing it's missing is Flash.
Wow...perfectly balanced card, probably Constructed worthy, it helps white (which is currently very weak) and a Limited force, you could draft tons of these.
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Well not quite anything. It doesn't deal with
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Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
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What state-based effect? It not being in play? I'm under the impression that the second ability will trigger and do nothing, since it can't see itself as already "removed from the game" while it's being "removed from the game" (leaving play).
As of right now there is no "another" on the rules text of the card, so it can target itself. But if I'm right then that wording wouldn't be needed.
Watch tne metagame shift....
With this and Pithing Needle, I can see Krosan Grip, Disenchant, etc. inching closer to MD status.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
What? What game are you playing? Nobody plays enchantment hate maindeck, and most people don't play it sideboard either. Besides, this is really efficient, but it's not a big enough effect to actually bring tech against. It's perfect.
I think you're right.
Also, if this is the only enchantment you run and they board in enchantment hate, it can really hose their sideboarding. I'd probably top it out at 3 copies just for this reason.
The metagame has certainly been there before.
It is not! Stop using strictly better when you just mean better.
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If you remember back to the nightmare mechanic from the Torment set, if you can bounce a perm. with both C.I.P and L.P. abilities while the C.I.P is still on the stack, the L.P ability will resolve first and be countered, and the C.I.P ability will resolve next, effectively removing the target form the game forever.
Yes.
This works.
Now Blue/White has yet another powerful trick for its disposal.
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Strictly better basically means it's a better version of the same card. For example, Wild Mongrel is strictly better than Grizzly Bears. It doesn't matter how much better a card is than another one, if they function differently, it is not strictly better.
In constructed - I think I like faith's fetters better but it might get played.
I think the CIP and bounce trick is more cute than useful - of course I have been wrong before.