that quite ok, the info so far has been great. i'm thinkingwhite weenie with some red splash for 2 or 3 direct damage spells, or black for 2 or 3 point removal
Remember Lunan bro, white has its own removal in Oblivion Ring (My pick of the set) and Neck snap (And possibly the white Command if you want to go that far).
Blacks removal is far too specific for my tastes based on what I've seen, namely the 2B "destroy target non-elf creature", and the clash removal on the spoiler... oh and that changeling one (+3/-3) too...
Just stick with white and you'll clean up you're mana woes!
Remember Lunan bro, white has its own removal in Oblivion Ring (My pick of the set) and Neck snap (And possibly the white Command if you want to go that far).
Blacks removal is far too specific for my tastes based on what I've seen, namely the 2B "destroy target non-elf creature", and the clash removal on the spoiler... oh and that changeling one (+3/-3) too...
Just stick with white and you'll clean up you're mana woes!
ah but its the speed of the removal, right now i'm thinking incinerate and shock or tarfire, using the forge and gemstone mine for the red mana, maybe 3 condems. my big problem with white is that sits removal is so very limited and overly conditional. if i need to kill something i want to kill it beofre it attacks or blocks and i want to pay the least amount of mana possible for it. i will have quite a few decks to test once the whole spoiler is out. right now assuming the duress is real its looking like B/g tarmorack is the "best deck" with red deck wins (with goyf) is number 2. again this is a so far result. hydro would one of your sources take requests? say find out if the duress is true or at least the exact wording on it? and perhaps another burnspell or 2?
the balloonist is quite nice in limited... it takes another creature along for a ride.... haha...
the knight is quite strong... it would be your beater of choice in kithkin... turn 1 1cc 2/2 kithkin, turn 2 knight, turn 3 <insert kithkin lord here>, turn 4 thoughtweft trio... what's good is that it actually benefits from just one sulfur elemental...
To be good, WW needs at least two good 1-drops, and since we are out Savannah Lions, we'll need another beyond the Isamaru guy. Sunlance and Condemn should be okay on the removal front, and Fortify and Serra Avenger work decently as finishers, so the only big thing that's missing is another 1-drop.
I don't know if Ajani really has a place in this kind of deck, but it might. It won't materialize, though, with just what we've seen so far.
There may well be room for a Boros-style deck, though, that just aims for 12 damage with its creatures and then burns the opponent out.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
hydro would one of your sources take requests? say find out if the duress is true or at least the exact wording on it? and perhaps another burnspell or 2?
No news on the Duress, in fact one of the voices see's it as dubious, despite being mixed with some vague 'heard ofs'. I can't give you any more than that, cause there simply isn't any more to give.
I believe the last burn spell we're missing is Hurly Burly, based on the WOTC crossword, no info on that one I'm sorry.
the knight is quite a solid two drop. unlike protection (which is sometimes amazing and other times useless), lifelink is consistently useful. if nothing else its a 2 drop that performs EXTREMELY well in damage races against other aggro decks.
No news on the Duress, in fact one of the voices see's it as dubious, despite being mixed with some vague 'heard ofs'. I can't give you any more than that, cause there simply isn't any more to give.
I believe the last burn spell we're missing is Hurly Burly, based on the WOTC crossword, no info on that one I'm sorry.
oh well, no harm in asking.
i do expect at least 1 more burn spell of some sort, possibly 2, we have 2 comons, (ok 3 if you count that really bad 1 damage one) but EVERY set has a rare burn of some sort. and i would expect an uncommon, maybe it'll be an envoke card (or do we have all the red ones?)
oh well, no harm in asking.
i do expect at least 1 more burn spell of some sort, possibly 2, we have 2 comons, (ok 3 if you count that really bad 1 damage one) but EVERY set has a rare burn of some sort. and i would expect an uncommon, maybe it'll be an envoke card (or do we have all the red ones?)
Well, technically the Red Command will be burn of some sort, so that could count as the rare burn
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I don't know if they'd do a first strike / deathtouch on one card for two mana unless it was multicolored. Maybe the elf knight of thingy thing would be BG? First strike for black and deathtouch for green? Otherwise I think they'd make it at least three mana. Possibly a deathtouch regenerator for two black? They'd probably make that a 1/1 though if at all...
I don't know if they'd do a first strike / deathtouch on one card for two mana unless it was multicolored. Maybe the elf knight of thingy thing would be BG? First strike for black and deathtouch for green? Otherwise I think they'd make it at least three mana. Possibly a deathtouch regenerator for two black? They'd probably make that a 1/1 though if at all...
To be good, WW needs at least two good 1-drops, and since we are out Savannah Lions, we'll need another beyond the Isamaru guy. Sunlance and Condemn should be okay on the removal front, and Fortify and Serra Avenger work decently as finishers, so the only big thing that's missing is another 1-drop.
I don't know if Ajani really has a place in this kind of deck, but it might. It won't materialize, though, with just what we've seen so far.
There may well be room for a Boros-style deck, though, that just aims for 12 damage with its creatures and then burns the opponent out.
The removal WW uses needs to be able to get rid of large blockers as well as attackers. I suspect that any WW pilot will see many Wall of Roots, Tarmogoyf and/or Doran the Seige Tower this season- Temporal Isolation or Oblivion Ring stop them cold. A successful Kithkin deck shouldn't bother with stuff like Soltari Priest anyway (hopefully). With what we've seen so far, a successful KDW (Kithkin Deck Wins) would look like this:
4 Isamaru Kithkin
4 Goldmeadow Harrier (no other good Kithkin one-drops yet, but this is good against anything creaturey).
4 Kithkin Knight 2/2 Lifelink
4 Gaddock Teeg (simply a beast- if he lives long enough that having another copy is a wasted guy, you should be winning)
4 Your Choice (New unspoiled guy, Mistmeadow Skulk, Blade of the Sixth Pride, Amrou Scout)
4 Kithkin Lord
4 Springjack Knight (Bananas against control- if they flip a land and you don't, you deal 6)
4 Surge of Thoughtweft/Fortify/Temporal Isolation (Depends on the meta)
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtweft Trio
4 Kithkin Dual-Land
4 Brushland
15 Plains
Sideboard:
Many options (disenchant, more removal, Loxodon Warhammer, Deathrender maybe, Mistmeadow Skulk)
I don't think it sucks too much, but the Standard power level is certainly high- the many giant awesome creatures may be too much for the hobbits.
The removal WW uses needs to be able to get rid of large blockers as well as attackers. I suspect that any WW pilot will see many Wall of Roots, Tarmogoyf and/or Doran the Seige Tower this season- Temporal Isolation or Oblivion Ring stop them cold. A successful Kithkin deck shouldn't bother with stuff like Soltari Priest anyway (hopefully). With what we've seen so far, a successful KDW (Kithkin Deck Wins) would look like this:
4 Isamaru Kithkin
4 Goldmeadow Harrier (no other good Kithkin one-drops yet, but this is good against anything creaturey).
4 Kithkin Knight 2/2 Lifelink
4 Gaddock Teeg (simply a beast- if he lives long enough that having another copy is a wasted guy, you should be winning)
4 Your Choice (New unspoiled guy, Mistmeadow Skulk, Blade of the Sixth Pride, Amrou Scout)
4 Kithkin Lord
4 Springjack Knight (Bananas against control- if they flip a land and you don't, you deal 6)
4 Surge of Thoughtweft/Fortify/Temporal Isolation (Depends on the meta)
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtweft Trio
4 Kithkin Dual-Land
4 Brushland
15 Plains
Sideboard:
Many options (disenchant, more removal, Loxodon Warhammer, Deathrender maybe, Mistmeadow Skulk)
I don't think it sucks too much, but the Standard power level is certainly high- the many giant awesome creatures may be too much for the hobbits.
if your gping green you need to use tarmogoyf, and knight of the holy nimbus is a little nuts, if your looking for useful 1 drop white critters, sidewinder sliver is a good 1 drop without any other sliver backup
I'm sorry, but I just can't see Thoughtweft Trio making it in a dedicated WW deck. It's enormously expensive, and, to be honest, it is just a creature without any especially game-changing effects. In addition, in such a deck, it would always be removing a creature with 2 power or more, so you're really paying 4 mana for 3 power or less. I mean, yes, it deals with Temporal Isolation and Wrath very nicely, but it doesn't have what it takes to cut it in WW.
It could be good in a controlling build, though, with Blink and a few CIP creatures.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Very solid. Pretty much as I predicted- a 2/2 for WW (some people were guessing 1/2, 1/1, 2/1...). Obviously white can get a way with a lot on a creature for WW. =)
Yeah, worse than the usual knights, although it's on par with Holy Nimbus in a few ways. I value first strike 10x more than flanking, and even though the regenerator thing is awesome, lifelink is nothing to sniff at. If he gets through, that's a 4 point life swing. On a 2/2 first striker. For WW. Definitely gives WW some more backbone in the basic slots.
Balloonist is good in limited (giving a beefy creature evasion is pretty nifty), but obviously crap in constructed. Anyways, keep the good previews coming, and PLEASE at least hint at what the Black Command costs? Does?
Very solid. Pretty much as I predicted- a 2/2 for WW (some people were guessing 1/2, 1/1, 2/1...). Obviously white can get a way with a lot on a creature for WW. =)
this statement is VERY true!!!
the reason behind it is that white lacks the support that make such creature unprintable in other colors, black is supported by its removal and control, red is supported by its removal and general speed, green is supported by its EXTREMLY aggressive nature, and blue is supported by its control
you can make an argument that a similar card could be printed in blue and gotten away with, you might even be able to argue for green. but the lack of support around the creatures has always been why white weenie is almost always a teir 2 or less deck
huh, like whipcorder and his ilk, like leonin skyhunter...WW costed white weenies are certainly in evolution
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For those of you who want to play the Kithkin lord, he's not terrible, but you need an outstanding reason for playing him over Calciderm and I'm just not seeing it.
Kithkin (AKA, "I sure hope I manage to play Isamaru on Turn 1")
4 Kithkinland
4 Isamaru, Hound of Kithkin
3-4 Saved by the 'Teeg
4 Knights that are not Knights of the Holy Nimbus
1 Questionable Kithkin Champion (Am I missing better Kithkin filler?)
Good cards (AKA, damnit, why couldn't I have drawn my leet kithkin champion?)
4 Soltari Priest
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Problematic hammers
With these options:
X Calciderms
X-4 Saffi
4 Goyfs
X of the various cards that play nice with Goyf
4 Troll Ascetic (conflicts with mana curve a bit)
X Griffin Guides
X Serra Avengers
Various weaksauce Kithkin cards
Various removal spells that screw up your desperate attempt to put your opponent on a clock and admit you should have run BDW!
After trying to examine our options, I don't personally think we have a nearly good enough reason to screw up our deck with kithkin so that we can play the Isamaru kithkin... so far. It's true that the Kithkin are strong and able to win games but a traditional BDW is going to be more flexible and put opponents on a shorter clock, and decks that bend over for Goyf with some more green are just stronger. And I don't feel like the Kithkin are terribly goyf friendly, either; they're very greedy for slots in the deck. Just stick Mr. Teeg in your G/W Goyf deck and call it a day.
For those of you who want to play the Kithkin lord, he's not terrible, but you need an outstanding reason for playing him over Calciderm and I'm just not seeing it.
Kithkin (AKA, "I sure hope I manage to play Isamaru on Turn 1")
4 Kithkinland
4 Isamaru, Hound of Kithkin
3-4 Saved by the 'Teeg
4 Knights that are not Knights of the Holy Nimbus
1 Questionable Kithkin Champion (Am I missing better Kithkin filler?)
Good cards (AKA, damnit, why couldn't I have drawn my leet kithkin champion?)
4 Soltari Priest
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Problematic hammers
With these options:
X Calciderms
X-4 Saffi
4 Goyfs
X of the various cards that play nice with Goyf
4 Troll Ascetic (conflicts with mana curve a bit)
X Griffin Guides
X Serra Avengers
Various weaksauce Kithkin cards
Various removal spells that screw up your desperate attempt to put your opponent on a clock and admit you should have run BDW!
After trying to examine our options, I don't personally think we have a nearly good enough reason to screw up our deck with kithkin so that we can play the Isamaru kithkin... so far. It's true that the Kithkin are strong and able to win games but a traditional BDW is going to be more flexible and put opponents on a shorter clock, and decks that bend over for Goyf with some more green are just stronger. And I don't feel like the Kithkin are terribly goyf friendly, either; they're very greedy for slots in the deck. Just stick Mr. Teeg in your G/W Goyf deck and call it a day.
Honestly, I can't shake this feeling. Tribal is all well and good, but tends to be on the gimmicky side. The only decent tribal effect that we've seen so far is the whole reveal for a discount thingy. Is that a strong enough effect to play sub-par cards? Or perhaps we just haven't seen the stronger cards yet. Regardless, the isamaru/kithkin is less exciting in the world of goyf. I'm thinking w/g/b goyf style, maybe goyf rack style, chucking in Teeg to dodge wrath effects and the monster treefolk for mad beats. Goyf likes him too. Thrill of the hunt seems good w/ Dosan (whatever the tree's name is). Goyf just kinda makes weenie decks look silly.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Really? how come
First Strike is much better defensively (with other first strikers), but flanking is far more likely to make your creature unblockable, and lets you glide through armies of tokens
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Remember Lunan bro, white has its own removal in Oblivion Ring (My pick of the set) and Neck snap (And possibly the white Command if you want to go that far).
Blacks removal is far too specific for my tastes based on what I've seen, namely the 2B "destroy target non-elf creature", and the clash removal on the spoiler... oh and that changeling one (+3/-3) too...
Just stick with white and you'll clean up you're mana woes!
ah but its the speed of the removal, right now i'm thinking incinerate and shock or tarfire, using the forge and gemstone mine for the red mana, maybe 3 condems. my big problem with white is that sits removal is so very limited and overly conditional. if i need to kill something i want to kill it beofre it attacks or blocks and i want to pay the least amount of mana possible for it. i will have quite a few decks to test once the whole spoiler is out. right now assuming the duress is real its looking like B/g tarmorack is the "best deck" with red deck wins (with goyf) is number 2. again this is a so far result. hydro would one of your sources take requests? say find out if the duress is true or at least the exact wording on it? and perhaps another burnspell or 2?
the balloonist is quite nice in limited... it takes another creature along for a ride.... haha...
the knight is quite strong... it would be your beater of choice in kithkin... turn 1 1cc 2/2 kithkin, turn 2 knight, turn 3 <insert kithkin lord here>, turn 4 thoughtweft trio... what's good is that it actually benefits from just one sulfur elemental...
I don't know if Ajani really has a place in this kind of deck, but it might. It won't materialize, though, with just what we've seen so far.
There may well be room for a Boros-style deck, though, that just aims for 12 damage with its creatures and then burns the opponent out.
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No news on the Duress, in fact one of the voices see's it as dubious, despite being mixed with some vague 'heard ofs'. I can't give you any more than that, cause there simply isn't any more to give.
I believe the last burn spell we're missing is Hurly Burly, based on the WOTC crossword, no info on that one I'm sorry.
oh well, no harm in asking.
i do expect at least 1 more burn spell of some sort, possibly 2, we have 2 comons, (ok 3 if you count that really bad 1 damage one) but EVERY set has a rare burn of some sort. and i would expect an uncommon, maybe it'll be an envoke card (or do we have all the red ones?)
Well, technically the Red Command will be burn of some sort, so that could count as the rare burn
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
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i expect so, but i find it difficult to figure out what the 4 effects will be. 1 burn, maybe a threaten, mana generation? and?
Actually even then it would cost more like 4 mana.
The removal WW uses needs to be able to get rid of large blockers as well as attackers. I suspect that any WW pilot will see many Wall of Roots, Tarmogoyf and/or Doran the Seige Tower this season- Temporal Isolation or Oblivion Ring stop them cold. A successful Kithkin deck shouldn't bother with stuff like Soltari Priest anyway (hopefully). With what we've seen so far, a successful KDW (Kithkin Deck Wins) would look like this:
4 Isamaru Kithkin
4 Goldmeadow Harrier (no other good Kithkin one-drops yet, but this is good against anything creaturey).
4 Kithkin Knight 2/2 Lifelink
4 Gaddock Teeg (simply a beast- if he lives long enough that having another copy is a wasted guy, you should be winning)
4 Your Choice (New unspoiled guy, Mistmeadow Skulk, Blade of the Sixth Pride, Amrou Scout)
4 Kithkin Lord
4 Springjack Knight (Bananas against control- if they flip a land and you don't, you deal 6)
4 Surge of Thoughtweft/Fortify/Temporal Isolation (Depends on the meta)
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtweft Trio
4 Kithkin Dual-Land
4 Brushland
15 Plains
Sideboard:
Many options (disenchant, more removal, Loxodon Warhammer, Deathrender maybe, Mistmeadow Skulk)
I don't think it sucks too much, but the Standard power level is certainly high- the many giant awesome creatures may be too much for the hobbits.
if your gping green you need to use tarmogoyf, and knight of the holy nimbus is a little nuts, if your looking for useful 1 drop white critters, sidewinder sliver is a good 1 drop without any other sliver backup
Yeah, but a 2/2 lifelinker costs four mana too.
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It could be good in a controlling build, though, with Blink and a few CIP creatures.
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Yeah, worse than the usual knights, although it's on par with Holy Nimbus in a few ways. I value first strike 10x more than flanking, and even though the regenerator thing is awesome, lifelink is nothing to sniff at. If he gets through, that's a 4 point life swing. On a 2/2 first striker. For WW. Definitely gives WW some more backbone in the basic slots.
Balloonist is good in limited (giving a beefy creature evasion is pretty nifty), but obviously crap in constructed. Anyways, keep the good previews coming, and PLEASE at least hint at what the Black Command costs? Does?
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this statement is VERY true!!!
the reason behind it is that white lacks the support that make such creature unprintable in other colors, black is supported by its removal and control, red is supported by its removal and general speed, green is supported by its EXTREMLY aggressive nature, and blue is supported by its control
you can make an argument that a similar card could be printed in blue and gotten away with, you might even be able to argue for green. but the lack of support around the creatures has always been why white weenie is almost always a teir 2 or less deck
Currently Playing:
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I'm a proud member of the Online Campaign for Real English. If you believe in capital letters, correct spelling and good sentence structure, then copy this into your signature.
Kithkin (AKA, "I sure hope I manage to play Isamaru on Turn 1")
4 Kithkinland
4 Isamaru, Hound of Kithkin
3-4 Saved by the 'Teeg
4 Knights that are not Knights of the Holy Nimbus
1 Questionable Kithkin Champion (Am I missing better Kithkin filler?)
Good cards (AKA, damnit, why couldn't I have drawn my leet kithkin champion?)
4 Soltari Priest
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Problematic hammers
With these options:
X Calciderms
X-4 Saffi
4 Goyfs
X of the various cards that play nice with Goyf
4 Troll Ascetic (conflicts with mana curve a bit)
X Griffin Guides
X Serra Avengers
Various weaksauce Kithkin cards
Various removal spells that screw up your desperate attempt to put your opponent on a clock and admit you should have run BDW!
Honestly, I can't shake this feeling. Tribal is all well and good, but tends to be on the gimmicky side. The only decent tribal effect that we've seen so far is the whole reveal for a discount thingy. Is that a strong enough effect to play sub-par cards? Or perhaps we just haven't seen the stronger cards yet. Regardless, the isamaru/kithkin is less exciting in the world of goyf. I'm thinking w/g/b goyf style, maybe goyf rack style, chucking in Teeg to dodge wrath effects and the monster treefolk for mad beats. Goyf likes him too. Thrill of the hunt seems good w/ Dosan (whatever the tree's name is). Goyf just kinda makes weenie decks look silly.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Really? how come
First Strike is much better defensively (with other first strikers), but flanking is far more likely to make your creature unblockable, and lets you glide through armies of tokens