I agree, every creature is vulnerable to some kind of creature removal, otherwise it would be completely broken IMO.
Whilst this guy isn't the best Giant in the set, he has synergy with the Giants that have already been revealed. Going through the current spoiler, these are the powers of each Giant listed: 3, 5, 6, 4 and 5. There has surely got to be more Giants than that and going from that, he's going to get at least 3 counters from every Giant played after him in a Giant tribal deck.
If you can't attack with him, due to feqars of removal, fling him with Brion Stoutarm. That's quite a lot of life-gain there. I would run him in a fun Giant deck that built on Giant flingingness, rather than attacking with them.
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let's just throw out the 'it can be eliminated' argument already...
...setting that aside, the lack of evasion and the high cost is just not helping this guy out... the fact that he is 7cc, he would be one of the last guys you would play so your creatures would not be much help for him...
I guess ferret had to hype this card (he can't take their preview card and go, "well, this is terrible, I would never play it"), but I'm pretty disappointed in whoever thought this was a good card to preview. It is a big waste of a really cool ability (at least if it had had trample, it could have been threatening to a w/g deck or something).
Ferret's claim that this scales really well to multiplayer is just laughable - a gigantic creature that everyone at the table likely has some way to kill is not useful, 50/50 or not.
I agree that in general the idea that a card can be removed by the opponent is not a reason to think it is crap, but there's a distinction to be made. When I play garruck and you have to first burn him out, then burn out the creature he made, there's a resistance to removal. When I play gaddock teeg and you have to first use spot removal on him, then wrath, you are losing tempo. Even if you terror him, that is tempo neutral, but card advantage for me, because you would have just wrathed my 2-drop away. Timber Protector is in that middle ground, where he dies to black-based (or white combat-triggered) spot removal, but not red or white (pacifism)-based removal (for the most part), and before he dies, he keeps everyone alive, but, and the but is important, he's also several mana more expensive than the spells that would remove him (including bounce), which means that you lose tempo when he gets killed (or bounced before a wrath). That may be worth the trade-off for the card that needs to be spent to get him out of the way before dealing with other trees.
Our friend hamletback, on the other hand, can be stopped by black removal, pacifism removal, bounce, random 1/1 dorks, anything with regeneration, etc. And he's not even that big. You can't just play and throw him - you have to leave him out for a bit before he gets big. You can't drop him, give him a hammer and have him kill the opponent (well, no more so that any other 6/6 of which there are many in this set with evasion built in). And he's 7 mana with no other effect, so if he gets terrored or unsummoned, you just lost a ton of tempo and gained no cards.
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People's Front of 422
For me, the guy just isn't that immediate to wow a pure Timmy. It seems that he's trying to convince Timmy-Johnny's to try and figure him out though.
Their problem: sneaking him into play and getting him to stick long enough for his size to matter. Maybe it'll involve Brion's fling, or a Dread Return or something... regardless, it'll probably be too complicated for a pure Timmy, who wants to bash face with something big and impressive (creature or spell) as soon as possible.
In my metta there is very little enchantment removal, so you could play this guy with green mana accel, some early walls, and Robe of Mirrors him when he comes into play. Next turn add Fists of Ironwood and attack. Its not much, but I could see that becoming a problem where I play. The best part is that since he doesn't have trample people might still play some creatures before your next turn, where as they probably would wait if he came with trample.
If wizards knew they were going to make Giants one of their tribes in this "huge new awesome set" that is Lorwyn, why wouldnt they try to make every Tribe viable? So far, it looks like they havent even put in the slightest amount of effort into it. Goblins will be the best group followed by the next cheapest group and so on. This is pretty ridiculous. I started off loving the Lorwyn flavor but the more cards that get revealed, the more I am disliking Lorwyn. I dont understand, they get paid to come up with newly designed cards, and they churn out rares like this?? This is uncommon at best. Now maybe if it could not be targeted by spells or abilities, then it would even things out for the casting cost, but this thing will get terrored and your opponent will stomp your face in afterwards. *sigh*
You have to give us a reason to want to play more expensive guys. R & D, with this card and the white command (and a ton of the other revealed cards), you guys are showing that you are really not pushing the envelope and coming up with wonderful new ideas. Things will never change. Magic cards are way too expensive (money-wise) for this. If I buy a booster pack and pull this guy, I am gonna be so upset.
I was thinking and with the new mechanic Challenge or what ever that is, this card could be handy for that. Also in a red/white build you could find a way to discard and revive with that one Timeshifted Revive card. That solves that problem in summoning it. Also with the new white giant enchantment that gives protection all could work on him too making him realy hard to get rid of. So in conclusion this card has potental just got to look at cards that can make him gold and not junk. I for one be happy with one seeing what I just explaned would be cool to do.
Depends on whose the active player, and who controls the Pandemonium.
If you opponent is both, then your Giant is dead. If you control the Pandemonium, then I think your Giant lives.
If you are the active player, you Giant should always live.
I was thinking it was the other way around. If your opponent is Active Player (probably, if he is playing a creature) and the Pandemonium is his, his trigger stacks first, then yours (APNAP). This would keep the giant alive.
If you control the Pandemonium, you get to stack both triggers (to your giant's benefit).
If he somehow is able to do it on your turn, however, via Elvish Piper or something, then you would have to stack the giant's trigger first and he would die.
That's how I understand it, at any rate.
EDIT: Woowoo, 100 posts. Finally, some respect! Ok, self-respect but I'm working on it.
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besides its always amusing when we have these spoilers because you always have an abundance of people going "its crap that", in the end everyone has there own opinions, you are somewhat supposed to give your view of the cards, not just blankly say crap!
Fair enough. I tend to take a very positive outlook on cards, and I just don't see this card working outside of limited.
Even in limited, there will likely be ways to deal with this guy fairly easily. Weedstrangle, Oblivion Ring, Neck Snap, Whirlpool Whelm, the enchant tapped creature and Hunter of Eyeblights come to mind off the bat. Then there's probably some regenerator that you can toss in front of him. Compare him to the incarnations or anything else for 6+ mana, and there's probably something else big you'd rather have in your deck, or maybe even just some mana fixing. You know there will be better giants out there.
His biggest advantage is he's only 1 red mana... Which is probably irrelevant that late in the game anyway. I guess you can splash for him?
I mean, even if he had trample, Torchling's ability to redirect... Something... Anything... At 7 mana, why not? Even Kavu Primarch was at least a kicker dude.
I hate rares that sound the comic mishap trumpet when you open them. "Wah wah waaaah..."
There is one creature that can be bigger than the Goliath -- Fungal Behemoth. Which, incidentally, has some very nice interactions with him.
No, the Goliath isn't a great card. He's usable -- there are plenty of ways to get him out early, keep him on the board, and give him trample. But the necessity to plan for each of those makes a creature that is just not efficient enough to be used in Standard. Barring some unlikely combos, of course.
Still, he's flavorful and he's fun. A much better 'crap rare' than most of the ones they give us. I'd rather have a Hamletback Goliath than a Steamflogger Boss or a One with Nothing.
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Still, he's flavorful and he's fun. A much better 'crap rare' than most of the ones they give us. I'd rather have a Hamletback Goliath than a Steamflogger Boss or a One with Nothing.
I disagree with the marketing philosophy that believes crap rares sell boosters. Inevitably my booster buying for a set hits the wall with a rare like this. There's a fine line between "crappy but I can put it in a deck" and simply not salvagable. This one is below my personal threshold, which is substantially accepting.
Agreed. The perfect Timmy card, large and nearly unplayable.
So I'm wondering this. With Favor of the Mighty, this guy will always have protection from all colors. I mean, if a bigger creature comes into play Mr. Hamletback jumps up even bigger than that. With Grinning Ignus he can actually come out reasonably early. That makes it possible, if not likely, to do some real damage with him. Suppose
Turn 1: Forest, Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves
Turn 2: Mountain,Grinning Iguns
Turn 3: Land, Favor of the Mighty. You have two mana to spend as you wish.
Turn 4: Land, use Ignus, drop Hamletback. He's protection from everything that matters (What are the odds of double Ghostfire anyway?) and you can do the Ignus Yo-Yo next turn and easily swing for 10.
This is by far the weakest of all the preview cards and i think it shows in Ferrets article. It is a very simple creature, just play and keep swinging. In multiplayer he may be decent , but will generally just get killed considering it lacks any protection. In limited he is even worse. Sure he is fat, but generic fatties are pretty easy to find. If your opponent has enough creatures to gang block then chances are he will trade with a few men, and if your opponent needs to play more creatures to survive then any other fatty would serve the same purpose of beating face.
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Agreed. The perfect Timmy card, large and nearly unplayable.
So I'm wondering this. With Favor of the Mighty, this guy will always have protection from all colors. I mean, if a bigger creature comes into play Mr. Hamletback jumps up even bigger than that. With Grinning Ignus he can actually come out reasonably early. That makes it possible, if not likely, to do some real damage with him. Suppose
Turn 1: Forest, Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves
Turn 2: Mountain,Grinning Iguns
Turn 3: Land, Favor of the Mighty. You have two mana to spend as you wish.
Turn 4: Land, use Ignus, drop Hamletback. He's protection from everything that matters (What are the odds of double Ghostfire anyway?) and you can do the Ignus Yo-Yo next turn and easily swing for 10.
Quick Comment: Favor of the Mighty works off of CMC not power or toughness. However, he DOES cost a ton of mana so there will be very little that will cost more then him.
"constructed jank and limited bomb rolled into one"
well put, because that is exactly wat he is. sure, at the prerelease i would love to get him (of course, id love to get other stuff, but meh, if it helps me win i dont care), but he is just a house (insert pun here). if only he was a 5/5 for 7 with evasion and his ability.....
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I was annoyed that I stayed up for this, and they didn't even have the decency to preview a better card on the same night! Even a common would've been nice to look at.
Whilst this guy isn't the best Giant in the set, he has synergy with the Giants that have already been revealed. Going through the current spoiler, these are the powers of each Giant listed: 3, 5, 6, 4 and 5. There has surely got to be more Giants than that and going from that, he's going to get at least 3 counters from every Giant played after him in a Giant tribal deck.
If you can't attack with him, due to feqars of removal, fling him with Brion Stoutarm. That's quite a lot of life-gain there. I would run him in a fun Giant deck that built on Giant flingingness, rather than attacking with them.
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ingenious design for the anti-timmies
Terror. there goes your 7 mana for nothing.
overall, this card could have been better.
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...setting that aside, the lack of evasion and the high cost is just not helping this guy out... the fact that he is 7cc, he would be one of the last guys you would play so your creatures would not be much help for him...
Ferret's claim that this scales really well to multiplayer is just laughable - a gigantic creature that everyone at the table likely has some way to kill is not useful, 50/50 or not.
I agree that in general the idea that a card can be removed by the opponent is not a reason to think it is crap, but there's a distinction to be made. When I play garruck and you have to first burn him out, then burn out the creature he made, there's a resistance to removal. When I play gaddock teeg and you have to first use spot removal on him, then wrath, you are losing tempo. Even if you terror him, that is tempo neutral, but card advantage for me, because you would have just wrathed my 2-drop away. Timber Protector is in that middle ground, where he dies to black-based (or white combat-triggered) spot removal, but not red or white (pacifism)-based removal (for the most part), and before he dies, he keeps everyone alive, but, and the but is important, he's also several mana more expensive than the spells that would remove him (including bounce), which means that you lose tempo when he gets killed (or bounced before a wrath). That may be worth the trade-off for the card that needs to be spent to get him out of the way before dealing with other trees.
Our friend hamletback, on the other hand, can be stopped by black removal, pacifism removal, bounce, random 1/1 dorks, anything with regeneration, etc. And he's not even that big. You can't just play and throw him - you have to leave him out for a bit before he gets big. You can't drop him, give him a hammer and have him kill the opponent (well, no more so that any other 6/6 of which there are many in this set with evasion built in). And he's 7 mana with no other effect, so if he gets terrored or unsummoned, you just lost a ton of tempo and gained no cards.
People's Front of 422
Their problem: sneaking him into play and getting him to stick long enough for his size to matter. Maybe it'll involve Brion's fling, or a Dread Return or something... regardless, it'll probably be too complicated for a pure Timmy, who wants to bash face with something big and impressive (creature or spell) as soon as possible.
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He would be way better if he was a 6/6 that came into play with +1/+1 counters equal to the total power of other creatures in play...
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Its a straight up Timmy card, jank trade fodder. I believe everyone in the forums can testify to that fact.
I don't even know if he's even really a bomb in limited.
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No way. He's one of the "x4 for $1" rares.
That's my thought. There's gotta be another (likely even common or uncommon) beatstick for the high slots that's better.
You have to give us a reason to want to play more expensive guys. R & D, with this card and the white command (and a ton of the other revealed cards), you guys are showing that you are really not pushing the envelope and coming up with wonderful new ideas. Things will never change. Magic cards are way too expensive (money-wise) for this. If I buy a booster pack and pull this guy, I am gonna be so upset.
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If you opponent is both, then your Giant is dead. If you control the Pandemonium, then I think your Giant lives.
If you are the active player, you Giant should always live.
I was thinking it was the other way around. If your opponent is Active Player (probably, if he is playing a creature) and the Pandemonium is his, his trigger stacks first, then yours (APNAP). This would keep the giant alive.
If you control the Pandemonium, you get to stack both triggers (to your giant's benefit).
If he somehow is able to do it on your turn, however, via Elvish Piper or something, then you would have to stack the giant's trigger first and he would die.
That's how I understand it, at any rate.
EDIT: Woowoo, 100 posts. Finally, some respect! Ok, self-respect but I'm working on it.
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Fair enough. I tend to take a very positive outlook on cards, and I just don't see this card working outside of limited.
Even in limited, there will likely be ways to deal with this guy fairly easily. Weedstrangle, Oblivion Ring, Neck Snap, Whirlpool Whelm, the enchant tapped creature and Hunter of Eyeblights come to mind off the bat. Then there's probably some regenerator that you can toss in front of him. Compare him to the incarnations or anything else for 6+ mana, and there's probably something else big you'd rather have in your deck, or maybe even just some mana fixing. You know there will be better giants out there.
His biggest advantage is he's only 1 red mana... Which is probably irrelevant that late in the game anyway. I guess you can splash for him?
I mean, even if he had trample, Torchling's ability to redirect... Something... Anything... At 7 mana, why not? Even Kavu Primarch was at least a kicker dude.
I hate rares that sound the comic mishap trumpet when you open them. "Wah wah waaaah..."
No, the Goliath isn't a great card. He's usable -- there are plenty of ways to get him out early, keep him on the board, and give him trample. But the necessity to plan for each of those makes a creature that is just not efficient enough to be used in Standard. Barring some unlikely combos, of course.
Still, he's flavorful and he's fun. A much better 'crap rare' than most of the ones they give us. I'd rather have a Hamletback Goliath than a Steamflogger Boss or a One with Nothing.
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I disagree with the marketing philosophy that believes crap rares sell boosters. Inevitably my booster buying for a set hits the wall with a rare like this. There's a fine line between "crappy but I can put it in a deck" and simply not salvagable. This one is below my personal threshold, which is substantially accepting.
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Agreed. The perfect Timmy card, large and nearly unplayable.
So I'm wondering this. With Favor of the Mighty, this guy will always have protection from all colors. I mean, if a bigger creature comes into play Mr. Hamletback jumps up even bigger than that. With Grinning Ignus he can actually come out reasonably early. That makes it possible, if not likely, to do some real damage with him. Suppose
Turn 1: Forest, Birds of Paradise/Llanowar Elves
Turn 2: Mountain, Grinning Iguns
Turn 3: Land, Favor of the Mighty. You have two mana to spend as you wish.
Turn 4: Land, use Ignus, drop Hamletback. He's protection from everything that matters (What are the odds of double Ghostfire anyway?) and you can do the Ignus Yo-Yo next turn and easily swing for 10.
I kill you with
it.
By himself...he's pretty bad. There are some cards that are pretty good by themselves.
Play those cards instead.
(Yeah, I found the fact he was able to write more than 500, non-repeating!!, words about this guy pretty amusing as well.)
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Quick Comment: Favor of the Mighty works off of CMC not power or toughness. However, he DOES cost a ton of mana so there will be very little that will cost more then him.
"constructed jank and limited bomb rolled into one"
well put, because that is exactly wat he is. sure, at the prerelease i would love to get him (of course, id love to get other stuff, but meh, if it helps me win i dont care), but he is just a house (insert pun here). if only he was a 5/5 for 7 with evasion and his ability.....
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