What's your MWS handle, buddy? I might be tempted to do some research about just how often you System: Player Lost out of games. If you live by your rhetoric, I'd expect it to be quite infrequently. Needless to say, I think you're full of bull...
People are overreacting to Emrakul's spoiler. Iona already is a substantially more crippling finisher than this guy and last time I checked she was wrecking, uh, not a single format at all?
If you somehow get the mana to hardcast this guy he is usually worse than Banefire FTW. If you cheat him into play he is at best marginally better than Progenitus or Iona and actually more vulnerable than both, though not by much (unless a colorless Doomblade variant gets printed, in which case he'll be really hosed).
There is nothing groundbreaking about Emrakul. He's actually somewhat boring in a format that already has Cruel Ultimatum, Banefire, Proggy and Iona as invincible uber-finishers... I do hope the last mythic Eldrazi to be spoiled will be a little more interesting...
What's your MWS handle, buddy? I might be tempted to do some research about just how often you System: Player Lost out of games. If you live by your rhetoric, I'd expect it to be quite infrequently. Needless to say, I think you're full of bull...
I don't play on MWS. So... yeah, good luck with that. Obviously if you believe I am lying to you, I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise on the Internet.
I don't know, if you compare the two pictures there is JUST enough of a difference to think it's not. Unless of course you have the MPW item in front of you, in which case I'll be very happy!
It's definitely not the art on the poster. This art has tentacles above the top of it's ... mass, while the poster art does not. Also the dimensions are totally wrong for eldrazi art. On the poster you can see that it has a transparent border as well.
Unless of course you have some actual information.
I want to speculate it's some sort of wrath, but a lot of the art makes me want to speculate that so ...
Now that you mention it, I've been quite pleasantly surprised how well my old play group transitioned into Warstorm: it implements quite a few of Magic's USPs without all the cutthroat and grief attitude.
To be perfectly fair, there are about a dozen skill-intensive games I would rather play over Magic right now. Guess what? I AM playing them! Every time I find myself talking about Magic, I find less and less reasons to spend my money into this game. Which I haven't for quite a while now, and don't plan to in the foreseeable future beyond the occasional pre-release.
Honestly, it's not even about discussing with the fine crowd gathered on these forums anymore; it's about how amusing it is to see them develop this game into a tight corner, and wondering whether people will wise up to the fact that, beyond all the hype and excitement of "reinvention," "acquisition" and "power creep", this game is struggling VERY hard to reestablish its aging player base unto a new generation of yu-gi-oh and social game-influenced players.
But good luck with that. I'll just be in the corner, enjoying a nice game of chess.:rolleyes:
I don't know, if you compare the two pictures there is JUST enough of a difference to think it's not. Unless of course you have the MPW item in front of you, in which case I'll be very happy!
You're right, the arts are slightly different. Yellow/Gray difference in the backdrop being the biggest, next being the 2 large crazy arms in your face.
People are overreacting to Emrakul's spoiler. Iona already is a substantially more crippling finisher than this guy and last time I checked she was wrecking, uh, not a single format at all?
If you somehow get the mana to hardcast this guy he is usually worse than Banefire FTW. If you cheat him into play he is at best marginally better than Progenitus or Iona and actually more vulnerable than both, though not by much (unless a colorless Doomblade variant gets printed, in which case he'll be really hosed).
There is nothing groundbreaking about Emrakul. He's actually somewhat boring in a format that already has Cruel Ultimatum, Banefire, Proggy and Iona as invincible uber-finishers... I do hope the last mythic Eldrazi to be spoiled will be a little more interesting...
I agree: Iona still seems like a much more potent threat to me than either of the mythic Eldrazi we've seen (granted she doesn't stop you from casting colorless spells). If they choose the right colors, she just locks you out; there is no response. Emrakul just makes it so you can't target it with most of the typical forms of spot removal. Don't worry, skill will still prevail here, just use your sideboard and find some new tech to get rid of the monster. Or just win before they can get the thing out.
I'd also like to note that people are trying to cheat her out, and while there are several ways of doing that, many of them won't get you the extra turn, and most can be disrupted by the current tech. If you hit some one with blightning, take out the summoning trap. If they Polymorph, terminate their target. Are these guys scary? Yes. But so is a baneslayer, and she comes out way earlier.
I expect Emrakul to be more punishing in EDH, although there are even more options there to deal with opponents' threats.
Now that you mention it, I've been quite pleasantly surprised how well my old play group transitioned into Warstorm: it implements quite a few of Magic's USPs without all the cutthroat and grief attitude.
To be perfectly fair, there are about a dozen skill-intensive games I would rather play over Magic right now. Guess what? I AM playing them! Every time I find myself talking about Magic, I find less and less reasons to spend my money into this game. Which I haven't for quite a while now, and don't plan to in the foreseeable future beyond the occasional pre-release.
Honestly, it's not even about discussing with the fine crowd gathered on these forums anymore; it's about how amusing it is to see them develop this game into a tight corner, and wondering whether people will wise up to the fact that, beyond all the hype and excitement of "reinvention," "acquisition" and "power creep", this game is struggling VERY hard to reestablish its aging player base unto a new generation of yu-gi-oh and social game-influenced players.
But good luck with that. I'll just be in the corner, enjoying a nice game of chess.:rolleyes:
Hmmm...good for you.
Perhaps it is just me, but I don't see Magic struggling to establish the player base. I see some kids play, and definitely I see a lot of new players attempting to get into this game.
I do play Chess and strategy games too, but Magic is a game I see myself playing for some time yet.
But for some reason, I do think that Rise of the Eldrazi could be a fine Un-set with some tweaks in the mechanics. I mean, Defender subtheme? Level Up? Even Annihilator can be a good Un-set mechanic with it affecting all players instead.
I don't know, if you compare the two pictures there is JUST enough of a difference to think it's not. Unless of course you have the MPW item in front of you, in which case I'll be very happy!
Ah, I see it now.
I'll freely admit I have no info, the pictures just look extremely similar at a glance. I personally think that's a pretty boring move on Wizards' part to release such nearly-identical art, especially in the same set...
Let me see if I understand you correctly: you prefer taking an automatic loss over being given a chance, however slim, to recover?
At the casual tables? Absolutely. Let me please just move on to the next (actually fun) game. In a competitive setting, probably not..that'd be poor sportsmanship on my part. But in either situaton, I would make it abundantly clear to my opponent that my irritation is not at them but at the makers of the game for printing such a gratuitous, overdecorated Xmas tree of a card. There's a big difference.
Casting an Eldrazi does not come with the stipulation that you be a poor sport about it. Poor sports would still be unfun to play against whether or not the Eldrazi had ever been concepted, and good sports who wish to play Eldrazi will still manage to treat their opponents with respect.
Well of course not. I still see a lot of folks feeling schadenfreude at their oppoenent's helplessness. It's one thing to have bested your opponent through tight play, it's quite another to "swat a fly with a sledgehammer".
But yes, I will concede there is some percentage of people who will win with this guy and resist the urge to be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s. But I think you oughtta be honest and concede there is also a percentage out there who WILL be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s about it.
If your opponent's board fulfills the conditions of a resolved Coalition Victory, then you were probably well on your way to losing anyway. Either that, or they had to jump through some reasonably convoluted hoops and you failed to successfully intervene in any way.
Because managing to control a land of every basic type and and a creature of every color, as well as resolving a sorcery with a converted mana cost of eight is a total cakewalk.
With dualies (old or new) and a few mana producing artifacts, it's quite easy. With Prismatic OmenTransguild Courier-types of tricks and workarounds available in the game, it's quite easy. Frankly, if you cannot pull off this win-con well before turn 8, you didn't build it right. But ultimately, if you 'build around' Emrakul in similar fashion, you will also be able to get him out very very quickly as well and <not> just "win the game", but watch them flail about helplessly for a few turns first. Looking at his abilities together, he just seems to have been designed to be "meanness" defined in card form, compared to CoVic, which is merely goofy.
Anyone who is complaining about the Eldrazi before they're even legal to play needs to wake up and smell the fact that Progenitus doesn't die to Oblivion Ring or Seal of Doom, yet Polymorph still isn't a format-warping deck.
OK, yes, I come off as whiney. I'm sorry.
And yes, we have not seen the rest of the set.
I still stand by my assertion that creatures THIS swingy just do not belong in this game, regardless of whatever answers they give us.
Let's wait until someone like Pat Chapin loses his first match to Emrakul and see what his reaction is. That goes for you too, actually, and everyone else who's defending this card as completely reasonable and healthy for the game.
EDIT: I feel the same way many people do about this new set. I think that totem armor and rebound, and especially level up. They just dont feel like magic anymore. Either magic is entering a new "era" or, magic is just going through a second puberty.
Magic is getting back to its roots as a "game to be played between games of Dungeons and Dragons". That is, they took a long look at their progeniter (D&D) and went "huh, we kinda lost a lot of the classical fantasy over the years and the feel that went into making this feel like a living and breathing game".
But to be honest, none of these mechanics seem that game changing.
Level-Up is really neat. It basically lets creatures feel more "alive". There has been growing creatures (Gaea's Liege) since before I've started playing and Figure of Destiny definately feels like the original "level up" creature (if not the Kamigawa flip creatures, to some extent). I like the idea that I can summon allies that gradually grow and evolve rather than stay as strong as they were...Wizards has tried this in the past with mixed success but usually the problem has been that you try to "level" your creatures by incorperating more than one card which, as a result, leaves your opponent with an X for 1 opportunity (see: Auras, Chimeras from Visions, Arcbound creatures, Licids).
Rebound feels just like a "meh" variation to the mechanic Wizards has been testing since Tempest block. First they had Buyback. But that was a tad too strong. So they tried Spellshapers. Those were a bit too weak. Then they tried Flashback, which worked but sometimes got a little too cheesey with altnernate costs. Suspended spells and even splice are in the same category (especially the suspended spells that resuspended themselves). Of course, there's also recover. Cascade was probably the most broken variation on this "getting more than 1 spell out of a card" mechanic. Rebound looks a little lame to be honest. There might be one or two good gems but so far I see too many spells with the word 'target', which seem pretty bad for rebound. The buffs especially. Now maybe if we got something that gave lifelink and deathtouch...
Totem armor feels like...well instill energy for one thing. Haven't we seen about a dozen or so enchantments taht fall off to save their users? While it feels nice for the current spot-happy standard, it doesn't feel too far fetch'd design wise.
I'm getting the impression that people think what is occurring in this set means super-permanent changes to Magic, whereas I don't think that is the case. This block is meant to be especially different from the others: meant to be drafted alone, separate from it's block brothers. I expected it to be quite funky and am glad at the unique things about ROE so far.
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():
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
However, in today's culture of Justin Bieber, Jersey Shore, and Twilight, where every song on the radio, every program on television and every site on the internet is just another monument to the pinnacle of human stupidity, it's certainly not the worst thing that people could be watching.
At the casual tables? Absolutely. Let me please just move on to the next (actually fun) game. In a competitive setting, probably not..that'd be poor sportsmanship on my part.
Difference of opinions. I think it's respectful to finish a game at events as well as the kitchen table; I don't care to give up as soon as my opponent drops a shrouded fatty.
Quote from Morphling »
But yes, I will concede there is some percentage of people who will win with this guy and resist the urge to be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s. But I think you oughtta be honest and concede there is also a percentage out there who WILL be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s about it.
As with all things, isn't that what I said? Whether or not the Eldrazi are present, the jerks certainly are. It's just an element of the game you have to accept with some opponents.
Quote from Morphling »
With dualies (old or new) and a few mana producing artifacts, it's quite easy. With Prismatic OmenTransguild Courier-types of tricks and workarounds available in the game, it's quite easy. Frankly, if you cannot pull off this win-con well before turn 8, you didn't build it right.
You would have to be playing Legacy, Vintage, or Casual with the combination of cards you listed, and there are far more degenerate decks in all three formats that go off at a much more impressive rate than "before turn 8".
Quote from Morphling »
But ultimately, if you 'build around' Emrakul in similar fashion, you will also be able to get him out very very quickly as well and <not> just "win the game", but watch them flail about helplessly for a few turns first.
That remains to be seen, but I have faith that the Eldrazi titans will be facing down the same Oblivion Rings and Karakases as Iona, as well as the same Wraths of God and combo stoppers that keep Progenitus in check.
That extra turn that Emrakul nets you doesn't look so impressive when you cracked a Lion's Eye Diamond to combo into it.
Quote from Morphling »
Let's wait until someone like Pat Chapin loses his first match to Emrakul and see what his reaction is.
That goes for you too, actually, and everyone else who's defending this card as completely reasonable and healthy for the game.
I personally don't care about the reactions of other people regardless of status; I don't put professional players on a pedestal. As for myself, I'll be a bit frustrated when facing this monster down, but I'll still have my usual practiced and respectful attitude, and I won't feel any worse than when someone dredges me to death, storms into Agony, stomps on me with any of the other competitive fatties that have been in Magic for a long enough time to prove that they aren't unhealthy, mills me, or reduces my life to 0 simply by swinging with a Workshop.
**In hushed, ominous voice** I knew this day would come.
"OK, so I'm going to run 4 Anthem of Rakdos, 4 Rakdos Guildmages, 4 Rakdos Pit Dragon, 4 Rakdos the Defiler, 4 Molten Disaster, 4 Mirri the Cursed, 4 Avatar of Woe, 4 Kaeravek the Merciless, 4 Graven Cairns, 4 Blood Crypt and Swamps and Mountains."
"Morgan, this is ridiculous."
"You're right. Take out the Avatar?"
Team OH!2drop
This is an absolutely ridiculous statement.
If you want 100% skill, go play chess
If you somehow get the mana to hardcast this guy he is usually worse than Banefire FTW. If you cheat him into play he is at best marginally better than Progenitus or Iona and actually more vulnerable than both, though not by much (unless a colorless Doomblade variant gets printed, in which case he'll be really hosed).
There is nothing groundbreaking about Emrakul. He's actually somewhat boring in a format that already has Cruel Ultimatum, Banefire, Proggy and Iona as invincible uber-finishers... I do hope the last mythic Eldrazi to be spoiled will be a little more interesting...
I don't know, if you compare the two pictures there is JUST enough of a difference to think it's not. Unless of course you have the MPW item in front of you, in which case I'll be very happy!
It's definitely not the art on the poster. This art has tentacles above the top of it's ... mass, while the poster art does not. Also the dimensions are totally wrong for eldrazi art. On the poster you can see that it has a transparent border as well.
Unless of course you have some actual information.
I want to speculate it's some sort of wrath, but a lot of the art makes me want to speculate that so ...
Now that you mention it, I've been quite pleasantly surprised how well my old play group transitioned into Warstorm: it implements quite a few of Magic's USPs without all the cutthroat and grief attitude.
To be perfectly fair, there are about a dozen skill-intensive games I would rather play over Magic right now. Guess what? I AM playing them! Every time I find myself talking about Magic, I find less and less reasons to spend my money into this game. Which I haven't for quite a while now, and don't plan to in the foreseeable future beyond the occasional pre-release.
Honestly, it's not even about discussing with the fine crowd gathered on these forums anymore; it's about how amusing it is to see them develop this game into a tight corner, and wondering whether people will wise up to the fact that, beyond all the hype and excitement of "reinvention," "acquisition" and "power creep", this game is struggling VERY hard to reestablish its aging player base unto a new generation of yu-gi-oh and social game-influenced players.
But good luck with that. I'll just be in the corner, enjoying a nice game of chess.:rolleyes:
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The promo art you can see in the OP on the poster.
You're right, the arts are slightly different. Yellow/Gray difference in the backdrop being the biggest, next being the 2 large crazy arms in your face.
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I agree: Iona still seems like a much more potent threat to me than either of the mythic Eldrazi we've seen (granted she doesn't stop you from casting colorless spells). If they choose the right colors, she just locks you out; there is no response. Emrakul just makes it so you can't target it with most of the typical forms of spot removal. Don't worry, skill will still prevail here, just use your sideboard and find some new tech to get rid of the monster. Or just win before they can get the thing out.
I'd also like to note that people are trying to cheat her out, and while there are several ways of doing that, many of them won't get you the extra turn, and most can be disrupted by the current tech. If you hit some one with blightning, take out the summoning trap. If they Polymorph, terminate their target. Are these guys scary? Yes. But so is a baneslayer, and she comes out way earlier.
I expect Emrakul to be more punishing in EDH, although there are even more options there to deal with opponents' threats.
Hmmm...good for you.
Perhaps it is just me, but I don't see Magic struggling to establish the player base. I see some kids play, and definitely I see a lot of new players attempting to get into this game.
I do play Chess and strategy games too, but Magic is a game I see myself playing for some time yet.
But for some reason, I do think that Rise of the Eldrazi could be a fine Un-set with some tweaks in the mechanics. I mean, Defender subtheme? Level Up? Even Annihilator can be a good Un-set mechanic with it affecting all players instead.
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Ah, I see it now.
I'll freely admit I have no info, the pictures just look extremely similar at a glance. I personally think that's a pretty boring move on Wizards' part to release such nearly-identical art, especially in the same set...
I really want to give that cow a Basilisk Collar. Looks really, really good with Basilisk Collar...and maybe even Bazaar Trader...haha...
Custom Set: Pokemon: Generation 1
My mind numbing DC-10 stack!
At the casual tables? Absolutely. Let me please just move on to the next (actually fun) game. In a competitive setting, probably not..that'd be poor sportsmanship on my part. But in either situaton, I would make it abundantly clear to my opponent that my irritation is not at them but at the makers of the game for printing such a gratuitous, overdecorated Xmas tree of a card. There's a big difference.
Well of course not. I still see a lot of folks feeling schadenfreude at their oppoenent's helplessness. It's one thing to have bested your opponent through tight play, it's quite another to "swat a fly with a sledgehammer".
But yes, I will concede there is some percentage of people who will win with this guy and resist the urge to be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s. But I think you oughtta be honest and concede there is also a percentage out there who WILL be complete ☺☺☺☺☺☺☺s about it.
With dualies (old or new) and a few mana producing artifacts, it's quite easy. With Prismatic Omen Transguild Courier-types of tricks and workarounds available in the game, it's quite easy. Frankly, if you cannot pull off this win-con well before turn 8, you didn't build it right. But ultimately, if you 'build around' Emrakul in similar fashion, you will also be able to get him out very very quickly as well and <not> just "win the game", but watch them flail about helplessly for a few turns first. Looking at his abilities together, he just seems to have been designed to be "meanness" defined in card form, compared to CoVic, which is merely goofy.
OK, yes, I come off as whiney. I'm sorry.
And yes, we have not seen the rest of the set.
I still stand by my assertion that creatures THIS swingy just do not belong in this game, regardless of whatever answers they give us.
Let's wait until someone like Pat Chapin loses his first match to Emrakul and see what his reaction is. That goes for you too, actually, and everyone else who's defending this card as completely reasonable and healthy for the game.
/rant
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Magic is getting back to its roots as a "game to be played between games of Dungeons and Dragons". That is, they took a long look at their progeniter (D&D) and went "huh, we kinda lost a lot of the classical fantasy over the years and the feel that went into making this feel like a living and breathing game".
But to be honest, none of these mechanics seem that game changing.
Level-Up is really neat. It basically lets creatures feel more "alive". There has been growing creatures (Gaea's Liege) since before I've started playing and Figure of Destiny definately feels like the original "level up" creature (if not the Kamigawa flip creatures, to some extent). I like the idea that I can summon allies that gradually grow and evolve rather than stay as strong as they were...Wizards has tried this in the past with mixed success but usually the problem has been that you try to "level" your creatures by incorperating more than one card which, as a result, leaves your opponent with an X for 1 opportunity (see: Auras, Chimeras from Visions, Arcbound creatures, Licids).
Rebound feels just like a "meh" variation to the mechanic Wizards has been testing since Tempest block. First they had Buyback. But that was a tad too strong. So they tried Spellshapers. Those were a bit too weak. Then they tried Flashback, which worked but sometimes got a little too cheesey with altnernate costs. Suspended spells and even splice are in the same category (especially the suspended spells that resuspended themselves). Of course, there's also recover. Cascade was probably the most broken variation on this "getting more than 1 spell out of a card" mechanic. Rebound looks a little lame to be honest. There might be one or two good gems but so far I see too many spells with the word 'target', which seem pretty bad for rebound. The buffs especially. Now maybe if we got something that gave lifelink and deathtouch...
Totem armor feels like...well instill energy for one thing. Haven't we seen about a dozen or so enchantments taht fall off to save their users? While it feels nice for the current spot-happy standard, it doesn't feel too far fetch'd design wise.
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Difference of opinions. I think it's respectful to finish a game at events as well as the kitchen table; I don't care to give up as soon as my opponent drops a shrouded fatty.
As with all things, isn't that what I said? Whether or not the Eldrazi are present, the jerks certainly are. It's just an element of the game you have to accept with some opponents.
You would have to be playing Legacy, Vintage, or Casual with the combination of cards you listed, and there are far more degenerate decks in all three formats that go off at a much more impressive rate than "before turn 8".
That remains to be seen, but I have faith that the Eldrazi titans will be facing down the same Oblivion Rings and Karakases as Iona, as well as the same Wraths of God and combo stoppers that keep Progenitus in check.
That extra turn that Emrakul nets you doesn't look so impressive when you cracked a Lion's Eye Diamond to combo into it.
I personally don't care about the reactions of other people regardless of status; I don't put professional players on a pedestal. As for myself, I'll be a bit frustrated when facing this monster down, but I'll still have my usual practiced and respectful attitude, and I won't feel any worse than when someone dredges me to death, storms into Agony, stomps on me with any of the other competitive fatties that have been in Magic for a long enough time to prove that they aren't unhealthy, mills me, or reduces my life to 0 simply by swinging with a Workshop.
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