Elspeth is flat-out the worse deck. To stay in the game at all, you need to curve out with evasion creatures and/or have Crusade or Elspeth. The Tezzeret Deck has a lot of things that instantly brings aggression to a halt while building up a lot of inevitability - Contagion Clasp, Esperzoa, Triskelion, Masticore...any of those is pretty ridiculous if not removed immediately. The blue deck just fails to have bad cards. Even the Elixir is a pretty decent one-of. The Elspeth deck on the other hand has...Temple Acolyte.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sometimes those with the most sin cast the first stones.
In my playing with it so far It seems the tezzeret deck defiantly has the upper hand. Contagion Clasp is amazing, Proliferate seems really strong in Theory and Practice. Have a tezz out, a chalice and a triskellion? Srsly? Srsly. Elspeths deck feels like it's missing artifact hate. Obviously too much hate in a duel deck is bad as well but elspeths deck just seems to have to few answers. Or maybe it just needed a few answers on sticks.
Here in Florida, the PICS have for the most part stocked the Wal-Marts and Targets. I got my playset, and most of the Targets and Walmarts have 5+ in Orlando. No disrespect to my LGS, but 35 bucks almost buys 2 when I get it at Wally or Target.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks in the hopper... Standard - R/G Aggro RG Standard - Book Burning UR Modern - U/W Tempo UW Legacy - Master of Affinity XX Vintage - Burnination RR
Well, i bought this deck and i must say that this is the most random deckbuild i had ever seen. i mean, when i bought Elves vs Goblins, the decks were kinda playable (no, i'm not saying they were tournment good, but hell they had some sinergy and were fun to play).
This 2 decks just make no sense. i playtested a bit (for fun) and:
1) why in hell there's a Rustic Clachan in a deck with THREE kithkins?
2) the cards with affinity only come into play like 1 turn earlier -.-
3) there ONE and only ONE card with modular
4) one artifact land..
5) one assembly-worker for the only mishra's factory
6) there's a glory seeker (LOL, just joking on this one, i know that filler is needed)
It is funny how people complain about absolutely diametral things. My friend bought them and we played a bit, and he was like - why is there stuff like Temple Acolyte and Kabira Crossroads in there? Makes no sense at all. And, that Assembly Worker is pretty cool.
Rustic Clachan is still a far better tap land than Kabira Crossroads ever will be in this deck. You don't need multiple Modular cards for them to interact. You just need artifact creatures. The Arcbound Worker seems about right, especially because pretty much all other non-rare Modular creatures suck. And the two artifact lands - I liked them. Of course four would be better, but maybe also too strong. Now, they are somewhat supporting the main theme and can be tutored, untapped with Tezzeret, accelerate Affinity just by a bit etc. - You can usually cast Thoughtcast for 1 at some point, and you would maybe be able to pay 5 at this point, too, but drawing 2 for 1 is just so much better. Qumulox is also just a really, really good creature, and yea you wont be casting him for UU, but he is pretty insane for 2UU or 3UU (or even 4UU).
And Glory Seeker is...okay. At least he is better than Temple Acolyte.
The Tezzeret Deck IS pretty good. The Elspeth deck...well, it can be pretty good, but there A LOT of cards in there you never want to draw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sometimes those with the most sin cast the first stones.
I like the Tezzeret deck, and will probably use it in a top 1 artifact deck and the other to round out my soldier deck with Elspeth. I'm probably going to trade off the Mishra's factories and the Swords, I've got like a million of those.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Yea not only is elspeth's deck much faster, but the removal and artifact hate is insane. People underestimate elspeth's deck because there are some pretty inefficient agro creatures, but tez's deck lacks removal for anything more than 3 toughness and 1 counterspell wont cut it. Crusade is almost auto win.
Elspeth is flat-out the worse deck. To stay in the game at all, you need to curve out with evasion creatures and/or have Crusade or Elspeth. The Tezzeret Deck has a lot of things that instantly brings aggression to a halt while building up a lot of inevitability...
In my playing with it so far It seems the tezzeret deck defiantly has the upper hand. ... Have a tezz out, a chalice and a triskellion?
OK -- so it seems like the balance of these two decks fluctuates a lot between games *and* between players; since my last post, I've still been having a lot of difficulty winning with Tezzeret. Like Calvin said, Elspeth is just so much faster, it is difficult to either stabilize or catch up with Tezzeret's pieces. Elspeth has a lot of early game beaters to take away most of Tezz's life total by ten or so turns, and after that, her lifegain and steady supply of chump blockers make it hard for Tezz to retaliate. On top of that, since her removal is so cheap, it's easy to knock out many of Tezz's key puzzle pieces to keep his combos from launching early game.
Here are a few samples of early-game Elspeth plays, and some problems with Tezz's possible defense:
What answers does Tezz have in this situation? Steel Wall only stalls; Runed Servitor provides no card advantage as it replaces Beth's Vanguard; Arcbound Worker and Silver Myr are too weak; Steel Overseer takes time to gather strength; Serrated Biskelion can provide you an answer to one of the 1/1s early on, but is ineffective against anything with toughness 2 or more after that. Activating Mishra's Factory in this situation would be unwise as it sets back your tempo in the early game. The best answers I can think of are Trinket Mage, Frogmite, and Master of Etherium. Even Contagion Clasp, this early in the game, has only limited use; if you use it to take out a 1/1, you have nothing to offensively proliferate until you get out the Biskelion; if you use it to weaken a 2/2, against Beth's synergistic pieces it only slightly slows her down. 4 to proliferate, with anything less than six mana available to you, is also significantly slowing down your plays.
Furthermore, in response to Tezzeret's defenses, Elspeth has a variety of answers. Two Swords to Plowshares, and Sunlance, each of which only cost W, can easily be cast on turn 3 while allowing more cheap beaters to be cast. I have repeatedly had my Steel Overseers and the Master of Etherium destroyed in this fashion; one game even had the Plowshares used against the Steel Wall, which turned out to be a much more effective gameplay than expected. Furthermore, in a trade-off situation, Razor Barrier and Mighty Leap have in fact proved extremely effective in removing my 2/2 creatures; I even lost a Synod Centurion to a Concave Phalanx once with an offensively-deployed Mighty Leap.
Several of Elspeth's mid-game plays quickly proved devastating: Stormfront Riders to bounce another creature and itself to produce two Soldiers a turn; when Elspeth gets to seven lands and one of those creatures is a two-drop such as Temple Acolyte, the lifegain and steady stream of chump blockers is near-impossible to answer (Foil, or drain all your +1/+1 counters on Triskelion). The fact that nearly every creature in Elspeth's deck is a Soldier is significant; Daru Encampment an unanswerable pump, and by the time the Catapult Master enters the battlefield with four other soldiers (which is easier than one would think), Tezzeret begins losing key pieces of his army at an alarming pace.
As Calvin said, the key difference between these two decks is removal; Elspeth tends to have a lot more of it than appears, while Tezz requires an array of pieces set up for any effective or consistent removal to occur. Meanwhile, Elspeth's deck stalls and has an unexpected degree of synergy; even though Tezzeret's individual cards are consistently better, as Seraph said, Elspeth's deck makes a more coherent whole. A Contagion Clasp with no +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters in play versus an attacking Glory Seeker, as has happened at least twice, will still lose you the game.
Will try and experiment more with the bounce and Thirst For Knowledge after work tonight. In the meanwhile, for those who have been winning with Tezzeret, could you describe to me precisely how you have managed to set up (and protect) your mid-game combinations, and what plays Elspeth had been making while you were building them?
I have playtested quite some games with my friends with these decks, and it seems that Elspeth only wins 1 out of 4 games. Tezzeret just has card advantage that hocks up big artifact creatures that surpass 2/2's for 2 with no abilities, and absolutely no card draw in the deck.
Even the games Elspeth did win, she *barely* won. I am not sure why people are proclaiming Elspeth's deck to be better. Soldier bears with little to no card advantage just seem so lackluster against most of Tezz's things.
Here in Florida, the PICS have for the most part stocked the Wal-Marts and Targets. I got my playset, and most of the Targets and Walmarts have 5+ in Orlando. No disrespect to my LGS, but 35 bucks almost buys 2 when I get it at Wally or Target.
your LGS sells them for $35 a piece!?!
I don't blame you for heading to wal-mart or target.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Game: Bioshock: Infinite
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
My roommate and I picked up the decks today from a Walmart since my LGS sold out. They were a bit fun, but Elspeth's deck was much better. I played the Tezz one the most and the only game I won I had Tezz, Contagion Clasp, and a rather large Everflowing Chalice out.
But I'm posting because it seems this particular product was riddled with printing errors. My roommate told me someone at our LGS had his entire EvT square-cut, and both of the decks we got had strange-colored colorless mana cost on the planeswalkers, like Juzam Djinn.
ATTACHMENTS
evtjuzam
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
My roommate and I picked up the decks today from a Walmart since my LGS sold out. They were a bit fun, but Elspeth's deck was much better. I played the Tezz one the most and the only game I won I had Tezz, Contagion Clasp, and a rather large Everflowing Chalice out.
But I'm posting because it seems this particular product was riddled with printing errors. My roommate told me someone at our LGS had his entire EvT square-cut, and both of the decks we got had strange-colored colorless mana cost on the planeswalkers, like Juzam Djinn.
mine were like theese as well I thought it was just how they'd printed them, cuz i bought two copies and they both came out like this.
My LGS is selling them for $35 also. Local Meijer has them for $20, so I picked one up tonight, might pick up another for my birthday on Wednesday. Overall I'm happy with just getting Elspeth and Tezzeret for $20, the STPs, Thirst for Knowledge, and Mishra's Factory are icing on the cake. Considering people around me will trade Elspeth for $35 by herself, this Duel Deck is a great deal.
Toronto Wal-Marts have gotten them in. $25.92, which I presume is near Canadian MSRP.
Isn't Cdn MSRP $21.95? That's what my local gaming shop sell thems for anyways. Please correct me if I'm wrong but Cdn Wal-Mart pricing seems a little off...
Walmart had plenty here. They took a week to show up on the shelves, but there they are. (There are still Phyrexia vs Coalition, just as there were still Garruk vs Lilliana in stock when PvC came out).
Testing them against each other, Tezz is 2-0 against Elspeth so far for me. Esperzoa + Contagion Clasp cleaned Elspeth's clock in the first game, although with both Crusade and Celestial Crusader on board it took a while.
The second game Tezzeret went ultimate with the Pentavus on board. A swarm of 5/5 pentavites was too much to handle.
In either case, Day of Judgement would have wrecked Tezzeret.
On my copy of the duel decks, the colorless mana cost symbol for the planeswalkers is darker. Is that normal?
It's not just yours. In my decks, the blue in Tezz's cost is a bizzarre aqua that looks like something out of Spongebob Squarepants. All of the cards overall seem a little darker and possibly shinier than other Magic cards.
Considering Target and Wal Mart rip you off in other ways... who's really clueless?
Anyway... glad to see people are able to find them at MSRP!
Standard - R/G Aggro RG
Standard - Book Burning UR
Modern - U/W Tempo UW
Legacy - Master of Affinity XX
Vintage - Burnination RR
Find me on Modo under Tigerbreak
It is funny how people complain about absolutely diametral things. My friend bought them and we played a bit, and he was like - why is there stuff like Temple Acolyte and Kabira Crossroads in there? Makes no sense at all. And, that Assembly Worker is pretty cool.
Rustic Clachan is still a far better tap land than Kabira Crossroads ever will be in this deck. You don't need multiple Modular cards for them to interact. You just need artifact creatures. The Arcbound Worker seems about right, especially because pretty much all other non-rare Modular creatures suck. And the two artifact lands - I liked them. Of course four would be better, but maybe also too strong. Now, they are somewhat supporting the main theme and can be tutored, untapped with Tezzeret, accelerate Affinity just by a bit etc. - You can usually cast Thoughtcast for 1 at some point, and you would maybe be able to pay 5 at this point, too, but drawing 2 for 1 is just so much better. Qumulox is also just a really, really good creature, and yea you wont be casting him for UU, but he is pretty insane for 2UU or 3UU (or even 4UU).
And Glory Seeker is...okay. At least he is better than Temple Acolyte.
The Tezzeret Deck IS pretty good. The Elspeth deck...well, it can be pretty good, but there A LOT of cards in there you never want to draw.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Interesting, thanks
OK -- so it seems like the balance of these two decks fluctuates a lot between games *and* between players; since my last post, I've still been having a lot of difficulty winning with Tezzeret. Like Calvin said, Elspeth is just so much faster, it is difficult to either stabilize or catch up with Tezzeret's pieces. Elspeth has a lot of early game beaters to take away most of Tezz's life total by ten or so turns, and after that, her lifegain and steady supply of chump blockers make it hard for Tezz to retaliate. On top of that, since her removal is so cheap, it's easy to knock out many of Tezz's key puzzle pieces to keep his combos from launching early game.
Here are a few samples of early-game Elspeth plays, and some problems with Tezz's possible defense:
T1: Plains, Elite Vanguard (common, since there are 2 in this deck)
T2: Daru Encampment; Tezz is now facing a 3/2 attacker on turn 2.
Or an alternate, but similar situation:
T1: Plains, Infantry Veteran
T2: Plains, Glory Seeker or unkicked Kor Aeronaut
T3: Tezz is now facing a 3/3 attacker, possibly with flying.
What answers does Tezz have in this situation? Steel Wall only stalls; Runed Servitor provides no card advantage as it replaces Beth's Vanguard; Arcbound Worker and Silver Myr are too weak; Steel Overseer takes time to gather strength; Serrated Biskelion can provide you an answer to one of the 1/1s early on, but is ineffective against anything with toughness 2 or more after that. Activating Mishra's Factory in this situation would be unwise as it sets back your tempo in the early game. The best answers I can think of are Trinket Mage, Frogmite, and Master of Etherium. Even Contagion Clasp, this early in the game, has only limited use; if you use it to take out a 1/1, you have nothing to offensively proliferate until you get out the Biskelion; if you use it to weaken a 2/2, against Beth's synergistic pieces it only slightly slows her down. 4 to proliferate, with anything less than six mana available to you, is also significantly slowing down your plays.
Furthermore, in response to Tezzeret's defenses, Elspeth has a variety of answers. Two Swords to Plowshares, and Sunlance, each of which only cost W, can easily be cast on turn 3 while allowing more cheap beaters to be cast. I have repeatedly had my Steel Overseers and the Master of Etherium destroyed in this fashion; one game even had the Plowshares used against the Steel Wall, which turned out to be a much more effective gameplay than expected. Furthermore, in a trade-off situation, Razor Barrier and Mighty Leap have in fact proved extremely effective in removing my 2/2 creatures; I even lost a Synod Centurion to a Concave Phalanx once with an offensively-deployed Mighty Leap.
Several of Elspeth's mid-game plays quickly proved devastating: Stormfront Riders to bounce another creature and itself to produce two Soldiers a turn; when Elspeth gets to seven lands and one of those creatures is a two-drop such as Temple Acolyte, the lifegain and steady stream of chump blockers is near-impossible to answer (Foil, or drain all your +1/+1 counters on Triskelion). The fact that nearly every creature in Elspeth's deck is a Soldier is significant; Daru Encampment an unanswerable pump, and by the time the Catapult Master enters the battlefield with four other soldiers (which is easier than one would think), Tezzeret begins losing key pieces of his army at an alarming pace.
As Calvin said, the key difference between these two decks is removal; Elspeth tends to have a lot more of it than appears, while Tezz requires an array of pieces set up for any effective or consistent removal to occur. Meanwhile, Elspeth's deck stalls and has an unexpected degree of synergy; even though Tezzeret's individual cards are consistently better, as Seraph said, Elspeth's deck makes a more coherent whole. A Contagion Clasp with no +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters in play versus an attacking Glory Seeker, as has happened at least twice, will still lose you the game.
Will try and experiment more with the bounce and Thirst For Knowledge after work tonight. In the meanwhile, for those who have been winning with Tezzeret, could you describe to me precisely how you have managed to set up (and protect) your mid-game combinations, and what plays Elspeth had been making while you were building them?
Even the games Elspeth did win, she *barely* won. I am not sure why people are proclaiming Elspeth's deck to be better. Soldier bears with little to no card advantage just seem so lackluster against most of Tezz's things.
My current trade thread.
your LGS sells them for $35 a piece!?!
I don't blame you for heading to wal-mart or target.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
But I'm posting because it seems this particular product was riddled with printing errors. My roommate told me someone at our LGS had his entire EvT square-cut, and both of the decks we got had strange-colored colorless mana cost on the planeswalkers, like Juzam Djinn.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
mine were like theese as well I thought it was just how they'd printed them, cuz i bought two copies and they both came out like this.
Still haven't see any of the Targets around here stock them yet, or maybe everyone just raided them immediately
EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter :symb::symu::symw:
:symw::symg: Captain Sisay :symg::symw:
:symb::symg: Nath of the Gilt-Leaf :symg::symb:
:symr::symu: Jhoira of the Ghitu :symu::symr:
:symw::symb::symr:Kaalia of the Vast :symr::symb::symw:
Ditto.
That's pretty good considering that the MSRP is $20 and he cards are pretty decent. I guess $25 is pretty fairly priced.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
Isn't Cdn MSRP $21.95? That's what my local gaming shop sell thems for anyways. Please correct me if I'm wrong but Cdn Wal-Mart pricing seems a little off...
S
My Trade Binder...come take a look!
Testing them against each other, Tezz is 2-0 against Elspeth so far for me.
Esperzoa + Contagion Clasp cleaned Elspeth's clock in the first game, although with both Crusade and Celestial Crusader on board it took a while.
The second game Tezzeret went ultimate with the Pentavus on board. A swarm of 5/5 pentavites was too much to handle.
In either case, Day of Judgement would have wrecked Tezzeret.
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
It's not just yours. In my decks, the blue in Tezz's cost is a bizzarre aqua that looks like something out of Spongebob Squarepants. All of the cards overall seem a little darker and possibly shinier than other Magic cards.
Really? I've haven't seen them for more than $25.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk