So, rather than just disclude a card casual players may not even know about because it makes the duel decks less fun, they should include it and a little piece of paper that says "Warning: Use of Hunted Dragon may reduce enjoyability"? It 'fits' the theme perfectly, but the fact that the dragon player is paying the mana for it is what screws it up. I think most people can look at the decks and realize why it's not in there, with or without someone spelling it out. It sounds great at first, but once you look at knight exemplar, kinsbaile cavalier, or juniper order ranger, it should become apparent.
Hunted Dragon just embodies this theme so perfectly, I don't know if I care that it made the decks less fun. If it is such a huge deal then maybe they should still have included it as a 61st card or something. Because of the people who buy this product, or think about buying this product, only a small fraction of them will have seen the explanation on the website. The rest are just going to look at it and go "Huh? Why no Hunted Dragon? That's dumb".
The target audience probably doesn't know what Hunted Dragon is. I sure as heck didn't until it was suggested here, and while I agree that it was a very flavourful card, if it didn't test well then I understand the designers' decision to pass on it.
So I decided to try the deck out on MWS with my friend, and we played 6 or 7 games... Dragons lost every time. Dragons die as soon as they hit the battlefield. Oblivion ring, Reprisal, Mighty leap those first strikers. Reciprocate a dragon that hits. Spidersilk Armor gives a legion of air blockers. Counter cone of flame with Sigil blessing. Silver knight + warhammer/ griffin guide is insta-win for knights. Knights often have basically won by turn 6, which is often the first dragon summon on red's side. Man, I wanted dragons to win at least a couple games. Knights just have so many solutions, but only need one for that first dragon. Hang on to that reprisal Until turn 6, then win the game. (shakes head). I would have taken Hunted dragon out of the deck if they put it in. Why give MORE ammo to knights.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
So I decided to try the deck out on MWS with my friend, and we played 6 or 7 games... Dragons lost every time. Dragons die as soon as they hit the battlefield. Oblivion ring, Reprisal, Mighty leap those first strikers. Reciprocate a dragon that hits. Spidersilk Armor gives a legion of air blockers. Counter cone of flame with Sigil blessing. Silver knight + warhammer/ griffin guide is insta-win for knights. Knights often have basically won by turn 6, which is often the first dragon summon on red's side. Man, I wanted dragons to win at least a couple games. Knights just have so many solutions, but only need one for that first dragon. Hang on to that reprisal Until turn 6, then win the game. (shakes head). I would have taken Hunted dragon out of the deck if they put it in. Why give MORE ammo to knights.
The impression I get from the Dragon deck is it's meant to lose more often than win. As the classic tales that feature knights and dragons; the knights usually tend to slay the dragons. Then the knight(s) save the day with some sort of reward waiting for them/him. Everyone lives happily ever after, except the dragons.
The End.
This is when you can tell that a Duel Deck is just so terribad that it makes something like Phyrexia Vs Coalition look like the decks that pros use. Sure there is still fun within the knight deck cause you can win with it. Though it's not fun for BOTH players.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the dragons that come to print recently are pretty much of the lack-luster variety. Sure their big and do something, but they are not what I would use in multiplies.
In fact, I'm a little surprised that wizards didn't do a Traditional Knights Vs Modern Dragons theme deck. Instead of Bogarden Hellkite at the helm for dragons, perhaps Hellkite Igniter? Along with stuff like a couple of Darksteel Citadels and Great Furnaces in the mana base to give the dragon deck that extra "kick". Reason for Igniter is that it would have been a way for WOTC to not also release a product earlier but to also supply a Sneak-Peak card into it in order to get people talking about MBS...
...or not.
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Venser:"You four Myr; watch this statue. Yet only one of you should watch it at a time while you other three spend your time recharging your batteries. Shift positions for every twenty-four hours that go by. Never take your eyes off it but do not look into it's eyes."
The four Myr get to work on monitoring the strange statue of a weeping woman. This goes on for several thousand years.
The Weeping Angel:"Well they have to mess up eventually or blink right? Right?"
Just by looking at the list, any decent player can tell that there is balance issues. With a ton of knights that can come out quickly, dragons only have cinder wall and torchrunners to chump block and 4 early burn spells. The knights have a ton of effects to fight back, with 3 removal spells, a good number of damage prevent and pump spells against early burn and a number of ways to block the 6 larger dragons. The way I see it, the dragons need to create a stalemate then build up for a 2-turn kill. But the knights are just going to be too fast...
The knights will consistently have a good number of creatures, the quality of which would also be as consistent (3 1-mana, 9 2-mana and 5 3-mana creatures). The dragons rely heavily on getting enough mana to even have a chance, draw one of the dragons and hope it sticks long enough to matter or not to be outclasses when you have it out then swing in with the dragon without opening yourself up for more damage than you can deal...
If only the designers weren't hellbent on going with the fire-breathing theme for the dragons, they could have picked 6-mana dragons or even cards like Lightning Dragon or Furnace Whelp so the dragons can keep up with the pace of the knights. Or even more spells to slow down the knights so you can get to seven mana without being within an inch of your life (more early burn comes to mind)...
Sure, dragons delivering fire from above has a lot of flavor, but they forgot the actual game and how knights would just charge in...
Perrault Desjardins
Reason for Igniter is that it would have been a way for WOTC to not also release a product earlier but to also supply a Sneak-Peak card into it in order to get people talking about MBS...
You must be thinking of a release date from an alternate universe,the one where the dragon deck wasnt horrible.Wizrads would have to have release KvD before MBS but the had released EvT like 3 month before.
Seems the nonPW DD wont have sneak peek cards.Ajani vs Bolas will have sneak peeks from Innistrad.
Its like they made the knight deck and where like "oh this is fun and playable" and went to the dragon deck and said "oh the knight deck is fun and playable,lets hit taco bell lunch is on me" and hung a "Mission Complete" banner outside the building.
Has anyone else noticed once warhammer is out dragon deck cant do a thing about it.A Pillage would have at least been fair.It would either slow knights down a little or bust warhammer.
They should have thrown Hunted Dragon in anyway.Why you ask?Because the dragon deck isn't going to be any fun to play anyway so it doesnt really matter.
If they slack on one of the deck now it dosent give me hope that Ajani v Bolas will be fun and playable on both sides.
Edit- @ Jader-Im glad you pointed out the fire breathing focus and the fact that they left out furnace whelp and lightining dragon.Which just gos to show that they got around to makeing the dragon deck and promptly didnt give a @#$%.
If only the designers weren't hellbent on going with the fire-breathing theme for the dragons, they could have picked 6-mana dragons or even cards like Lightning Dragon or Furnace Whelp so the dragons can keep up with the pace of the knights.
Lightning Dragon is, sadly, on the reserve list. But the point is well taken - I too expected to see cheaper dragons.
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Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Then have him eat Nicol Bolas and the Magic universe can be awesome again. He takes over the Infinite Consortium and turns it into a trans-multiverse Izzet League. His agents scour the multiverse in Venser's planeships looking for magic to learn, technology to improve upon, and less intelligent people to condescend to.
Yeah, and they totally needed the indestructable knight in there because it hasn't been printed in a long time, and red doesn't have pyroclasmy cards to deal with 2/2s.
Duet Decks: Liliana with Gideon or Duel Decks: Pirates vs Ninjas are both far superior deck lists, IMHO. Would love to buy those over this.
Q: Before the deck lists were revealed, I made a post in a forum saying that I would quit Magic if Hunted Dragon wasn't in this product. Am I still allowed to play?
-Joe
A: No, Joe, unfortunately you are not. Are you familiar with the phrase forum dictum meum pactum? It's from the Latin and means, "My post is my bond." I fear that if the integrity of anonymous internet commentary were ever lost, it would be lost forever. And you wouldn't want to be responsible for that, would you?
When the concept for Knights vs. Dragons was spoiled I thought: "gee...how is a deck full of (most likely) expensive costing dragons gonna deal with the early rush of the cheap costing knights?" Looking at the deck lists, it looks like R&D didn't even care to ask. Good job guys! Can't wait for Faeries vs. Surrakars, and Vampires vs. Kobolds next!
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Can somebody tell me from what expansions are the basic lands in this set? I found a forest I can't recognize. If you can tell from what set is every basic land in K vs D, I will be very happy
You guys are missing the point. It's a LOT harder to sell a product called Knights vs Red Jank. You have to explain to people at Walmart and Target what the word JANK even means and people in (insert state you don't like here) still wouldn't get it because (insert bad stereotype here). They figured that Dragons are the games standard bearers for overcosted stupid big creatures and therefore just putting the word Dragons on the box instead of Red Jank accomplishes 2 things.
First they dupe people who actually like dragons into buying the box and second they ... you know what I can't think up another argument either, so like wotc I'm just going to put DRAGONS as my second point and call it a day.
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Yes, but the target audience of this duel deck does care. They want to have fun fun fun 'til daddy takes the T-dragon away.
That's what duel decks are for. Fun.
The target audience probably doesn't know what Hunted Dragon is. I sure as heck didn't until it was suggested here, and while I agree that it was a very flavourful card, if it didn't test well then I understand the designers' decision to pass on it.
meat's Trade Corner
Feel free to tell me yours!
This is when you can tell that a Duel Deck is just so terribad that it makes something like Phyrexia Vs Coalition look like the decks that pros use. Sure there is still fun within the knight deck cause you can win with it. Though it's not fun for BOTH players.
It also doesn't help that a lot of the dragons that come to print recently are pretty much of the lack-luster variety. Sure their big and do something, but they are not what I would use in multiplies.
In fact, I'm a little surprised that wizards didn't do a Traditional Knights Vs Modern Dragons theme deck. Instead of Bogarden Hellkite at the helm for dragons, perhaps Hellkite Igniter? Along with stuff like a couple of Darksteel Citadels and Great Furnaces in the mana base to give the dragon deck that extra "kick". Reason for Igniter is that it would have been a way for WOTC to not also release a product earlier but to also supply a Sneak-Peak card into it in order to get people talking about MBS...
...or not.
The four Myr get to work on monitoring the strange statue of a weeping woman. This goes on for several thousand years.
The Weeping Angel:"Well they have to mess up eventually or blink right? Right?"
The knights will consistently have a good number of creatures, the quality of which would also be as consistent (3 1-mana, 9 2-mana and 5 3-mana creatures). The dragons rely heavily on getting enough mana to even have a chance, draw one of the dragons and hope it sticks long enough to matter or not to be outclasses when you have it out then swing in with the dragon without opening yourself up for more damage than you can deal...
If only the designers weren't hellbent on going with the fire-breathing theme for the dragons, they could have picked 6-mana dragons or even cards like Lightning Dragon or Furnace Whelp so the dragons can keep up with the pace of the knights. Or even more spells to slow down the knights so you can get to seven mana without being within an inch of your life (more early burn comes to mind)...
Sure, dragons delivering fire from above has a lot of flavor, but they forgot the actual game and how knights would just charge in...
You must be thinking of a release date from an alternate universe,the one where the dragon deck wasnt horrible.Wizrads would have to have release KvD before MBS but the had released EvT like 3 month before.
Seems the nonPW DD wont have sneak peek cards.Ajani vs Bolas will have sneak peeks from Innistrad.
Its like they made the knight deck and where like "oh this is fun and playable" and went to the dragon deck and said "oh the knight deck is fun and playable,lets hit taco bell lunch is on me" and hung a "Mission Complete" banner outside the building.
Has anyone else noticed once warhammer is out dragon deck cant do a thing about it.A Pillage would have at least been fair.It would either slow knights down a little or bust warhammer.
They should have thrown Hunted Dragon in anyway.Why you ask?Because the dragon deck isn't going to be any fun to play anyway so it doesnt really matter.
If they slack on one of the deck now it dosent give me hope that Ajani v Bolas will be fun and playable on both sides.
Edit- @ Jader-Im glad you pointed out the fire breathing focus and the fact that they left out furnace whelp and lightining dragon.Which just gos to show that they got around to makeing the dragon deck and promptly didnt give a @#$%.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Lightning Dragon is, sadly, on the reserve list. But the point is well taken - I too expected to see cheaper dragons.
Hero of the Planes Studio.
Standard:
Caw-Blade - Record: 31-9-3 (Retired)
Jund - Record: 4-1-1
Legacy:
Combo Elves - Record: 5-5
Trade Thread
Good for you :/
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Wasn't it FTV: Legends with the Innistrad preview?
FTV: Legends has an Innistrad preview. Conclusions are being drawn from DD:EvT having had Scars previews.
So, why it isn't there?
Level 2 Judge
Duet Decks: Liliana with Gideon or Duel Decks: Pirates vs Ninjas are both far superior deck lists, IMHO. Would love to buy those over this.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/136
Here you go.
Check out the first post in the thread, Tachi. It'll tell you what cards have new art .
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
3BB
Sorcery
You lose the game.
First they dupe people who actually like dragons into buying the box and second they ... you know what I can't think up another argument either, so like wotc I'm just going to put DRAGONS as my second point and call it a day.