Will likely be very similar to archenemy deck in the same way tezzeret's was similar to the Assembling the doomsday machine was. Oh wait, those only had like 3 of the same cards. never mind it will be fine
Anybody else think that Bogardan Hellkite is a pretty lame mythic for this?
Yep. As much as I love him and still have an old pet Dragonstorm deck I love using him in and tinkering with, I think he is an underwhelming mythic as far as dragons go since he is only impressive when you cheat him into play early as he quickly becomes just a 5/5 with flying and no other relevant abilities. Although, because of my pet deck I now need 4 of them since the new art is much nicer than the FtV: Dragons special foiled one (same art just different foil process). Hellkite Overlord would have been a much cooler mythic. I'll hope we get some kind of Dragon who happens to also be a lord for dragons until I see otherwise as the mythic even if I know there's no hope of it.
We want rafiq because that means there is a decent chance of getting Knight of the Relinquary too, thus making the deck as good of a money investment as the PW decks are. Well almost as good, depending on the dragon side.
...except that KotR could be in without Rafiq, or Rafiq could be in without KotR, or both could not be in, or both could be in. I see no reason that having Rafiq a MR would make it more likely to put KotR in. Especially considering that KotR is more complicated than the sorts of rares that we see in DDs usually, and outside of the splashy MR for the deck, the rares tend to be more intuitive designs.
Instead, it seems like having Rafiq as a MR makes it more likely that we'd see something like Coalition Relic gum up a rare spot again and would most likely get Thistledown Liege as the multi-coloured rare knight (maybe Wilt-Leaf Liege, if luckier), with stuff like Giant Growth and Court Hussar being complements to a mostly-white deck.
Yes, it seems "logical" to have Rafiq and KotR in a Knights product, looking at the product line from the outside, but if DDs were built "logically", then we would've gotten Honor of the Pure over Crusade in EvT; more Quirion Elves over Nomadic Elf in PvtC in addition to the multicolour being supported by a new-artted, reflavoured-for-Invasion-era style Joiner Adept for mana fixing (hey, if Coalition Relic can be jammed in, then why not use the alt art to make a rare from Mirrodin fit rather than Yavimaya Elder from Urza's Destiny?); and Serra Angel and Fallen Angel as uncommons in DvD rather than rares.
Yo, Lightning Duke, I'm really happy for ya and I'mma let you finish, but Yavimaya Elder is one of the best mana fixers of all time. OF ALL TIME!
(There is a certain kind of logic to the duel decks, ranging from the actually logical to the drugged-out-hippie version of logical: Yavimaya Elder is from a really old set, Joiner Adept isn't. Coalition Relic is a useful card in EDH, which is one of the primary audiences for Duel Decks. I agree with you about Quirion/Nomadic/Serra/Fallen though.)
I can see why they picked Crusade over Honor of the Pure for Elspeth - at the present point in time, more people are likely to have HotP instead of Crusade, so Crusade is the more 'interesting' card. If you want a HotP, you probably got one from M10/M11, which leads me to my next point-
I suspect the Duel Decks are made the way they are to encourage budding designers to tweak them with "obvious" additions from easily acquired reserved list cards or staple rares. If you take out Nomadic Elf and put in Joiner Adept, will it make the Coalition's mana more reliable? Will it make the Coalition win more than the Phyrexians? If you upgrade the Coalition, should you put in a new toy for the Phyrexians? What do you take out?
If you'll excuse me, I'm off to the batcave. I'm going to shuffle up some duel decks!
it would be hilarious if both of the decks contained some Changelings... (they're Knights,Goblins,Dragons after all; although I would really hate it if that would happen)
it would be hilarious if both of the decks contained some Changelings... (they're Knights,Goblins,Dragons after all; although I would really hate it if that would happen)
I would really like to see the Dragon deck to be a non-monoRed Deck...
I would buy this just for the Tatsumasa token if that were the case. Cool thing is, it could go in either deck. Dragons because, well, it makes a goddamn dragon. Knights, because it's (most likely) a sword made from the fang of a slain dragon.
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There is a certain kind of logic to the duel decks, ranging from the actually logical to the drugged-out-hippie version of logical
Hence my point. I'm not trying to say that the only logical view is what I put forth, but rather that the logic to which these decks are made, and the power levels and audiences for which they are made for, don't really coincide with the same sort of logic that auto-pairs Rafiq with KotR. The DDs are definitely made as a template to suggest deck building, expand horizons, and provide a more casual way of having fun. Looking at them as sources of disassemblence fodder for other decks with a bunch of commons packed in to rubber-band together and make a doorstop with is only one way to look at them.
I picked the HotP/Crusade point solely because HotP is usually better than in the 1v1 match. Obviously, when taking into consideration group games, teams, and the like, Crusade might have more applications, but when looking at a 1 on 1 duel, HotP seems like the better choice even if there are other factors at play that make Crusade more desirable.
Much like how if Shivan Dragon showed up in the Dragon deck, there are two possible outcomes based on art (assume that the FtV: Dragons art is not used right out of the gate):
1) Shivan Dragon is printed with the Giancola art that we saw last in M10.
2) Shivan Dragon is printed with the Benson art that we last saw in 5th Edition.
The former will probably cause a noise similar to the sounds made at the rare symbol on the DvD Serra Angel (which, as a sidebar, could have been made a lot more palatable simply by putting the original, 7th, or even that oversized promotional art on it instead of the same art it would appear with in 10th as an uncommon). The latter would probably cause at least some pleasure, since it's a new-framed, black-bordered version of something nostalgic. Even though it's still boring old Shivan Dragon, it's now a black-bordered English version that someone can get their hands on for less than $209.00 (price for an Unplayed Beta Shivan on magiccards.info's little box).
BTW, if this doesn't make total sense, it might be because I'm currently on pain medication, and I'm sure that's skewing some already skewed thought processes in some way.
well maybe they put some money goblins in this? I mean a single Goblin (dragon) lacky woudl make this sell like hot cakes (as would a piledriver but that might be hopeing for too much)
As for Myithic dragons the answer is simple Bolas Plainswalker Mythic and dragon,
as for Knights they are in trouble unless they get baneslayer as there mythic,
Sigh, but Hellkite Overlord is so goddamn expensive to cast...
Now, I love Jund to death, but what they needed tk see was an actual dragon lord instead of a rare enchantment for 4 gmc and a dragon that costs 8.
That said, I wouldn't mind tyrant dragon or whatever, but the deck had better be able to play him, as he seems so extremely hard for a beginner, or even an intermediate player like me to use effectively.
I am pretty much expecting to see it packing 3 or so Dragon Archs to spit some expensive Dragons a bit faster, maybe some seething songs as well.
Frankly, with Bogardan Hellkite being the Mythic, it would lead me to believe that Dragon Arch will NOT make an appearance, as it only cheats in multi-colored creatures, and I suspect this deck will be mono-red.
Bogarden hellkite is a hella disappointing mythic :/
Hoping tyrant dragon is a standard rare in it at least.
He's really cool. I bet we get that stupid jund enchantment too, wizards loves throwing junk rares in these things.
I find it odd to give Dragons yet another promo showing. There are still plenty of other duel deck avenues to explore. I suppose Dragons are popular fantasy staples.
I agree, I thought this would be Vol vs. Vengeant to have two multi-colored walkers in a duel deck. The alliteration sounds good too.
I agree, I thought this would be Vol vs. Vengeant to have two multi-colored walkers in a duel deck. The alliteration sounds good too.
'Walker vs. 'Walker is the fall release.
Spring release is always Faction vs. Faction.
SEE: Divine vs. Demonic, Elves vs. Goblins, Phyrexia vs. Coalition.
And: Jace vs. Chandra, Garruk vs. Liliana, Elspeth vs. Tezzeret.
Also, 2 of the 3 PW duel decks have tied into the block following (JVC for zen, EVT for Mirrodin) garruk v liliana was the outlier but still will matter to the story. basically, they won't do a duel deck unless they want to make a story around the walkers fighting sooner or later.
(THUS IMO Bolas v. X would be the next most logical choice.)
Sigh, but Hellkite Overlord is so goddamn expensive to cast...
Now, I love Jund to death, but what they needed tk see was an actual dragon lord instead of a rare enchantment for 4 gmc and a dragon that costs 8.
That said, I wouldn't mind tyrant dragon or whatever, but the deck had better be able to play him, as he seems so extremely hard for a beginner, or even an intermediate player like me to use effectively.
I used him as a 1-of and 2-of in Jund and actually gained an edge often, especially against controlling decks or against the mirror because they ran out of gas a bit late game, whereas I could drop a huge dragon.
Bet she doesn't
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If they had gone a printed some nice chase mythic dragons back in Alara, then we wouldn't all be panicking over a bad dragon deck.
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What dragons have seen play?
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Dragon Arch!! I completely agree with what you said about making it Jund-like.
Yep. As much as I love him and still have an old pet Dragonstorm deck I love using him in and tinkering with, I think he is an underwhelming mythic as far as dragons go since he is only impressive when you cheat him into play early as he quickly becomes just a 5/5 with flying and no other relevant abilities. Although, because of my pet deck I now need 4 of them since the new art is much nicer than the FtV: Dragons special foiled one (same art just different foil process). Hellkite Overlord would have been a much cooler mythic. I'll hope we get some kind of Dragon who happens to also be a lord for dragons until I see otherwise as the mythic even if I know there's no hope of it.
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...except that KotR could be in without Rafiq, or Rafiq could be in without KotR, or both could not be in, or both could be in. I see no reason that having Rafiq a MR would make it more likely to put KotR in. Especially considering that KotR is more complicated than the sorts of rares that we see in DDs usually, and outside of the splashy MR for the deck, the rares tend to be more intuitive designs.
Instead, it seems like having Rafiq as a MR makes it more likely that we'd see something like Coalition Relic gum up a rare spot again and would most likely get Thistledown Liege as the multi-coloured rare knight (maybe Wilt-Leaf Liege, if luckier), with stuff like Giant Growth and Court Hussar being complements to a mostly-white deck.
Yes, it seems "logical" to have Rafiq and KotR in a Knights product, looking at the product line from the outside, but if DDs were built "logically", then we would've gotten Honor of the Pure over Crusade in EvT; more Quirion Elves over Nomadic Elf in PvtC in addition to the multicolour being supported by a new-artted, reflavoured-for-Invasion-era style Joiner Adept for mana fixing (hey, if Coalition Relic can be jammed in, then why not use the alt art to make a rare from Mirrodin fit rather than Yavimaya Elder from Urza's Destiny?); and Serra Angel and Fallen Angel as uncommons in DvD rather than rares.
(There is a certain kind of logic to the duel decks, ranging from the actually logical to the drugged-out-hippie version of logical: Yavimaya Elder is from a really old set, Joiner Adept isn't. Coalition Relic is a useful card in EDH, which is one of the primary audiences for Duel Decks. I agree with you about Quirion/Nomadic/Serra/Fallen though.)
I can see why they picked Crusade over Honor of the Pure for Elspeth - at the present point in time, more people are likely to have HotP instead of Crusade, so Crusade is the more 'interesting' card. If you want a HotP, you probably got one from M10/M11, which leads me to my next point-
I suspect the Duel Decks are made the way they are to encourage budding designers to tweak them with "obvious" additions from easily acquired reserved list cards or staple rares. If you take out Nomadic Elf and put in Joiner Adept, will it make the Coalition's mana more reliable? Will it make the Coalition win more than the Phyrexians? If you upgrade the Coalition, should you put in a new toy for the Phyrexians? What do you take out?
If you'll excuse me, I'm off to the batcave. I'm going to shuffle up some duel decks!
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I imagine Dragons will get something like Dragon Fodder and the Knights might get Tivadar of Thorn.
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Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang would also be nice... Just for collection purposes...
I would really like to see the Dragon deck to be a non-monoRed Deck...
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I would buy this just for the Tatsumasa token if that were the case. Cool thing is, it could go in either deck. Dragons because, well, it makes a goddamn dragon. Knights, because it's (most likely) a sword made from the fang of a slain dragon.
Hence my point. I'm not trying to say that the only logical view is what I put forth, but rather that the logic to which these decks are made, and the power levels and audiences for which they are made for, don't really coincide with the same sort of logic that auto-pairs Rafiq with KotR. The DDs are definitely made as a template to suggest deck building, expand horizons, and provide a more casual way of having fun. Looking at them as sources of disassemblence fodder for other decks with a bunch of commons packed in to rubber-band together and make a doorstop with is only one way to look at them.
I picked the HotP/Crusade point solely because HotP is usually better than in the 1v1 match. Obviously, when taking into consideration group games, teams, and the like, Crusade might have more applications, but when looking at a 1 on 1 duel, HotP seems like the better choice even if there are other factors at play that make Crusade more desirable.
Much like how if Shivan Dragon showed up in the Dragon deck, there are two possible outcomes based on art (assume that the FtV: Dragons art is not used right out of the gate):
1) Shivan Dragon is printed with the Giancola art that we saw last in M10.
2) Shivan Dragon is printed with the Benson art that we last saw in 5th Edition.
The former will probably cause a noise similar to the sounds made at the rare symbol on the DvD Serra Angel (which, as a sidebar, could have been made a lot more palatable simply by putting the original, 7th, or even that oversized promotional art on it instead of the same art it would appear with in 10th as an uncommon). The latter would probably cause at least some pleasure, since it's a new-framed, black-bordered version of something nostalgic. Even though it's still boring old Shivan Dragon, it's now a black-bordered English version that someone can get their hands on for less than $209.00 (price for an Unplayed Beta Shivan on magiccards.info's little box).
BTW, if this doesn't make total sense, it might be because I'm currently on pain medication, and I'm sure that's skewing some already skewed thought processes in some way.
As for Myithic dragons the answer is simple Bolas Plainswalker Mythic and dragon,
as for Knights they are in trouble unless they get baneslayer as there mythic,
oh. didnt know. thats to bad.
Now, I love Jund to death, but what they needed tk see was an actual dragon lord instead of a rare enchantment for 4 gmc and a dragon that costs 8.
That said, I wouldn't mind tyrant dragon or whatever, but the deck had better be able to play him, as he seems so extremely hard for a beginner, or even an intermediate player like me to use effectively.
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Frankly, with Bogardan Hellkite being the Mythic, it would lead me to believe that Dragon Arch will NOT make an appearance, as it only cheats in multi-colored creatures, and I suspect this deck will be mono-red.
Hoping tyrant dragon is a standard rare in it at least.
He's really cool. I bet we get that stupid jund enchantment too, wizards loves throwing junk rares in these things.
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In English. I know that FBBs are more plentiful, but at the same time, some people prefer English cards quite a bit.
I agree, I thought this would be Vol vs. Vengeant to have two multi-colored walkers in a duel deck. The alliteration sounds good too.
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'Walker vs. 'Walker is the fall release.
Spring release is always Faction vs. Faction.
SEE: Divine vs. Demonic, Elves vs. Goblins, Phyrexia vs. Coalition.
And: Jace vs. Chandra, Garruk vs. Liliana, Elspeth vs. Tezzeret.
Also, 2 of the 3 PW duel decks have tied into the block following (JVC for zen, EVT for Mirrodin) garruk v liliana was the outlier but still will matter to the story. basically, they won't do a duel deck unless they want to make a story around the walkers fighting sooner or later.
(THUS IMO Bolas v. X would be the next most logical choice.)
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
I used him as a 1-of and 2-of in Jund and actually gained an edge often, especially against controlling decks or against the mirror because they ran out of gas a bit late game, whereas I could drop a huge dragon.
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