Also, 2 of the 3 PW duel decks have tied into the block following (JVC for zen, EVT for Mirrodin) garruk v liliana was the outlier but still will matter to the story. basically, they won't do a duel deck unless they want to make a story around the walkers fighting sooner or later.
(THUS IMO Bolas v. X would be the next most logical choice.)
Not meaning to nitpick, but JvC was released just after the Shards of Alara release. GvL was released just after Zendikar's release. And EvT was release before Scars of Mirrodin. They have been pushing back the autumn DD release each time.
JvC coincided with the JvC comic "Fuel for the Fire", GvL was supposed to predate the cancelled Chain Veil novel, EvT was released to coincide with the return to Mirrodin.
The EvG theme decks were released to coincide with Lorwyn's tribal nature, DvD had no specific tie-ins to any set/story, PvC was the preamble to get us ready for the Phyrexians on Mirrodin, so one would hope that KvD has some form of a tie in rather than being like the DvD set.
Completely independently, I keep wondering why people say there is no dragon lord? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund exists and was released specifically for a dragon rich environment, Jund, and functions as the closest thing to a lord that dragons have (without pump effects). He is also mythic and would easily fit the foil mythic spot in this deck without Wizards having to promote an older rare. Why do people want the Hellkite Overlord instead of a legendary creature?
Also, the conversation in this thread isn't about future Duel Decks... According to the current pattern, none of the theme decks have planeswalkers in them. Next autumn will most likely see another Planeswalker vs. Planeswalker duel deck but Wizards may change their strategy by that point in time so there is no point speculating this early. Goldmane is overdue an alternate art printing but that isn't enough to go on just yet.
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"You said you wanted to cast what?! Counter that!"
Completely independently, I keep wondering why people say there is no dragon lord? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund exists and was released specifically for a dragon rich environment, Jund, and functions as the closest thing to a lord that dragons have (without pump effects). He is also mythic and would easily fit the foil mythic spot in this deck without Wizards having to promote an older rare. Why do people want the Hellkite Overlord instead of a legendary creature?
Completely independently, I keep wondering why people say there is no dragon lord? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund exists and was released specifically for a dragon rich environment, Jund, and functions as the closest thing to a lord that dragons have (without pump effects). He is also mythic and would easily fit the foil mythic spot in this deck without Wizards having to promote an older rare. Why do people want the Hellkite Overlord instead of a legendary creature?
8/8 flying trample haste WITH fire breathing and regeneration is much stronger than giving all your dragons haste plus legendary doesn't really mean much.
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Thank-You! I'm not saying it's B.S. but I'll wait until I see the spoiler to buy into it.
If it is real I doubt it could be good enough to be worth the price. "Duel Decks: Phyrexia vs. The Coalition" still isn't worth the $20 investment and I doubt it will ever be.
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>implying they didn't reprint reserved cards in FTV: Artifacts.
As foils, they were allowed to print foils of reserved list cards because foils didn't exist back then. But that was the last time they would print foils of reserved list items. Now there is no RL printing whatsoever.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think Baneslayer Angel is the most likely suspect to be the Knights deck Mythic?
It's a good selling point, it's thematic, it helps out Knights in the air, still killable with burn spells.
DvD had Akroma, Angel of Wrath who had Protection from almost everything in the Demonic deck, and it was still printed.
EvT had Elspeth, Knight Errant which was very valuable in T2 and was about $30 on the secondary market at the time the decks where announced.
Phyrexia v The Coalition had Urza's Rage as the Mythic in The Coalition deck. Baneslayer arguably has a stronger connection to a knights deck then Urza's Rage does to The Coalition, thematically.
So based on past behaviors, and wanting to make the decks sell to veterans as well as people wanting good, premade decks, I think Baneslayer is so far the most likely suspect for the Knights Mythic, feel free to rip my post apart
They could also go G/W with the Knights, which invalidates my post entierly
Phyrexia v The Coalition had Urza's Rage as the Mythic in The Coalition deck. Baneslayer arguably has a stronger connection to a knights deck then Urza's Rage does to The Coalition, thematically.
So, the effective leader of the Coalition casting a massive fire spell through the use of his powersuit that was created to fight the Phyrexians...has no thematic tie to the Coalition fighting Phyrexia?
EvT was based on Elspeth, and AvD has the greatest angel of all time in it. CvP was about Urza leading the Coalition in the war against Yawgmoth.
The angel has nothing to do with any knights whatsoever, and the only tie she has to the set at all is that she hoses one of the decks.
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Wait, why does baneslayer even seem slightly possible? Its the single stupidest card they could put in the deck. Rage was pretty darned relevant to PVC (learn your magic history if you think otherwise).
But baneslayer... just no.
When you play it, the dragon deck will have practically no chance of winning, unless they throw in siegegang commander (in EVG, very unlikely) or destructive force or any number of otherwise useless (since bsa would be the only relevant flyer) cards like combust in the deck.
I mean, "HEY I can kill all your 5 power or less dragons without problems, gain 5 life while doing so and infinitely block your 6+ power dragons! LOLOL"
Admittedly, akroma did the same thing in DVD, but black still had reiver demon to kill her/win them the game after. And enough sac effects that you could reliably have one in hand.
Even then, white still stomped black, yes.
But still.
Just no.
Southern Paladin is enough hosing action (if they decide to do a hoser.) BSA would be plain broken.
Besides, I don't get how an angel is thematically sensical. She's an angel. They are knights. There is no relation beyond both being white and wanting to kill dragons.
shadowboy
Wait, why does baneslayer even seem slightly possible?
It dosen't at all,but every time a new nonPW DD is announced a good chunk of people start spewing out their wish and a small hand full start talking about what actually has a chance to be in the deck.
Multicolor is out because out of all of them only one is multicolor and that was a story driven while KvsD isn't.
Anything with protection is pretty much out since it makes it one sided and less interactive.Akroma was an exception due to iconicness.
They will upgrade a previous Knight to mythic.Wizards isn't going to look at their card pool their card and say...Damn we only have two mythic knights guess we have to pick one.If Lord of the Pit dosen't make you thing they have the balls to do it,your wrong.
So i agree with Cruible of Fire yet im suprised im the first to mention its buddy Dragon Roost.I mean sure its terrible play wise but it poops flying sky terrors for chaos sake.
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Okay, hold on, why in the name of Yawgmoth would they have Baneslayer ANGEL as the Mythic? Isn't this KNIGHTS versus Dragons? They seem to be going with a chivalrous and old sword-and-sorcery vibe with this duel deck, almost to the point of a low fantasy feel, similar to Conan and the old movie Dragonslayer. I don't think Wizards is dumb enough to go out of theme just to print an iconic mythic. Then again, this is Wizards we're talking about. But I really hope they just find a very iconic and mythic-quality Knight out there. Anybody got ideas as to who it could be?
Just looked up all them Knights out there, and I'ma call it right now: Rafiq of the Many
It dosen't at all,but every time a new nonPW DD is announced a good chunk of people start spewing out their wish and a small hand full start talking about what actually has a chance to be in the deck.
Multicolor is out because out of all of them only one is multicolor and that was a story driven while KvsD isn't.
Anything with protection is pretty much out since it makes it one sided and less interactive.Akroma was an exception due to iconicness.
They will upgrade a previous Knight to mythic.Wizards isn't going to look at their card pool their card and say...Damn we only have two mythic knights guess we have to pick one.If Lord of the Pit dosen't make you thing they have the balls to do it,your wrong.
So i agree with Cruible of Fire yet im suprised im the first to mention its buddy Dragon Roost.I mean sure its terrible play wise but it poops flying sky terrors for chaos sake.
I was discussing that possibility with my friends. Thought I posted it here, guess not. (dragon roost)
Sadly I think it will be in, not crucible however. Since most dragons are rare I think they'll put in more dragons.
I think: Shivan Dragon, To be jerks Ancient Hellkite, and... IDK what else, they're all so appealing. Scourge of Kher Ridges kind of feels like a hoser, so I think its kinda unlikely (hay, pay 4 to blow up all your stuff every turn!) although it could justify a mythic paladin en-vec/some other red hoser night since it can still thrash them. Still, doubtful.
Dragon tyrant seems too complex for a duel deck, newbs don't like upkeep cost, so i doubt it'll be in either.
:/ Gah, I'm too tired to think.
Completely independently, I keep wondering why people say there is no dragon lord? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund exists and was released specifically for a dragon rich environment, Jund, and functions as the closest thing to a lord that dragons have (without pump effects). He is also mythic and would easily fit the foil mythic spot in this deck without Wizards having to promote an older rare. Why do people want the Hellkite Overlord instead of a legendary creature?
It's pretty easy to forget about Karrthus because he sucks. Even if you can get past the fact that his control ability is irrelevant, giving your dragons haste is a joke. It doesn't provide ANY benefit to any dragons that are already on your side of the table, and how many dragons are you planning on casting AFTER a seven-mana one? He is a complete failure as a dragon "lord" and Bladewing the Risen looks downright playable by comparison.
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Zirilan of the Claw (potentially really awesome, a solid old-school Dragon-love card, but also potentially really abusable)
Great calls on the rest of the knights and dragons, but Zirilan is on the reserved list... Pity because it would be nice to see it with the new ORacle creature type of Viashino Shaman...
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Great calls on the rest of the knights and dragons, but Zirilan is on the reserved list... Pity because it would be nice to see it with the new ORacle creature type of Viashino Shaman...
I think we got Viashino Shaman in Alara, that or Ravnica. But yeah, good calls, I think Hunted Dragon is a shoe-in for the deck, he just fits too well not to not be in there. I just want to know who the mythic dragon and knight will be. I almost want to think the Mythic for dragons will be worldgorger, but what escapes me is the knight mythic. Gotta be an old updated card, please wizards, don't give us Rafiq.
EDIT: Also, White versus Balck-Red would make sense. Bladewing the Risen, perhaps?
I'd almost rather see Lost Order of Jarkeld with new, non-terribad art, but what are the odds of something other than a pumpknight from that long ago coming back?
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Great calls on the rest of the knights and dragons, but Zirilan is on the reserved list... Pity because it would be nice to see it with the new ORacle creature type of Viashino Shaman...
Ah, I didn't know that about Zirilan, too bad indeed. Glad I have a copy for the silly Dragon EDH I want to build.
As for the mythic slot, it's hard to tell, a few knights stick out as potentially mythic, while a multitude of dragons do the same. We can say with some certainty that some cards won't be in it, Baneslayer Angel for example won't be in the Knight deck as the Mythic, even if it fits the theme. Perhaps it will be Paladin en-Vec or Kinsbale Cavalier but both of those don't seem "flashy" enough when compared to some of the Dragons at red's disposal.
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Well, he is crazy...
Not meaning to nitpick, but JvC was released just after the Shards of Alara release. GvL was released just after Zendikar's release. And EvT was release before Scars of Mirrodin. They have been pushing back the autumn DD release each time.
JvC coincided with the JvC comic "Fuel for the Fire", GvL was supposed to predate the cancelled Chain Veil novel, EvT was released to coincide with the return to Mirrodin.
The EvG theme decks were released to coincide with Lorwyn's tribal nature, DvD had no specific tie-ins to any set/story, PvC was the preamble to get us ready for the Phyrexians on Mirrodin, so one would hope that KvD has some form of a tie in rather than being like the DvD set.
Completely independently, I keep wondering why people say there is no dragon lord? Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund exists and was released specifically for a dragon rich environment, Jund, and functions as the closest thing to a lord that dragons have (without pump effects). He is also mythic and would easily fit the foil mythic spot in this deck without Wizards having to promote an older rare. Why do people want the Hellkite Overlord instead of a legendary creature?
Also, the conversation in this thread isn't about future Duel Decks... According to the current pattern, none of the theme decks have planeswalkers in them. Next autumn will most likely see another Planeswalker vs. Planeswalker duel deck but Wizards may change their strategy by that point in time so there is no point speculating this early. Goldmane is overdue an alternate art printing but that isn't enough to go on just yet.
"You said you wanted to cast what?! Counter that!"
Don't forget Bladewing the Risen.
8/8 flying trample haste WITH fire breathing and regeneration is much stronger than giving all your dragons haste plus legendary doesn't really mean much.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
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Thank-You! I'm not saying it's B.S. but I'll wait until I see the spoiler to buy into it.
If it is real I doubt it could be good enough to be worth the price. "Duel Decks: Phyrexia vs. The Coalition" still isn't worth the $20 investment and I doubt it will ever be.
>implying they didn't reprint reserved cards in FTV: Artifacts.
As foils, they were allowed to print foils of reserved list cards because foils didn't exist back then. But that was the last time they would print foils of reserved list items. Now there is no RL printing whatsoever.
It's a good selling point, it's thematic, it helps out Knights in the air, still killable with burn spells.
DvD had Akroma, Angel of Wrath who had Protection from almost everything in the Demonic deck, and it was still printed.
EvT had Elspeth, Knight Errant which was very valuable in T2 and was about $30 on the secondary market at the time the decks where announced.
Phyrexia v The Coalition had Urza's Rage as the Mythic in The Coalition deck. Baneslayer arguably has a stronger connection to a knights deck then Urza's Rage does to The Coalition, thematically.
So based on past behaviors, and wanting to make the decks sell to veterans as well as people wanting good, premade decks, I think Baneslayer is so far the most likely suspect for the Knights Mythic, feel free to rip my post apart
They could also go G/W with the Knights, which invalidates my post entierly
So, the effective leader of the Coalition casting a massive fire spell through the use of his powersuit that was created to fight the Phyrexians...has no thematic tie to the Coalition fighting Phyrexia?
EvT was based on Elspeth, and AvD has the greatest angel of all time in it. CvP was about Urza leading the Coalition in the war against Yawgmoth.
The angel has nothing to do with any knights whatsoever, and the only tie she has to the set at all is that she hoses one of the decks.
But baneslayer... just no.
When you play it, the dragon deck will have practically no chance of winning, unless they throw in siegegang commander (in EVG, very unlikely) or destructive force or any number of otherwise useless (since bsa would be the only relevant flyer) cards like combust in the deck.
I mean, "HEY I can kill all your 5 power or less dragons without problems, gain 5 life while doing so and infinitely block your 6+ power dragons! LOLOL"
Admittedly, akroma did the same thing in DVD, but black still had reiver demon to kill her/win them the game after. And enough sac effects that you could reliably have one in hand.
Even then, white still stomped black, yes.
But still.
Just no.
Southern Paladin is enough hosing action (if they decide to do a hoser.) BSA would be plain broken.
Besides, I don't get how an angel is thematically sensical. She's an angel. They are knights. There is no relation beyond both being white and wanting to kill dragons.
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It dosen't at all,but every time a new nonPW DD is announced a good chunk of people start spewing out their wish and a small hand full start talking about what actually has a chance to be in the deck.
Multicolor is out because out of all of them only one is multicolor and that was a story driven while KvsD isn't.
Anything with protection is pretty much out since it makes it one sided and less interactive.Akroma was an exception due to iconicness.
They will upgrade a previous Knight to mythic.Wizards isn't going to look at their card pool their card and say...Damn we only have two mythic knights guess we have to pick one.If Lord of the Pit dosen't make you thing they have the balls to do it,your wrong.
So i agree with Cruible of Fire yet im suprised im the first to mention its buddy Dragon Roost.I mean sure its terrible play wise but it poops flying sky terrors for chaos sake.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Just looked up all them Knights out there, and I'ma call it right now: Rafiq of the Many
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I was discussing that possibility with my friends. Thought I posted it here, guess not. (dragon roost)
Sadly I think it will be in, not crucible however. Since most dragons are rare I think they'll put in more dragons.
I think: Shivan Dragon, To be jerks Ancient Hellkite, and... IDK what else, they're all so appealing. Scourge of Kher Ridges kind of feels like a hoser, so I think its kinda unlikely (hay, pay 4 to blow up all your stuff every turn!) although it could justify a mythic paladin en-vec/some other red hoser night since it can still thrash them. Still, doubtful.
Dragon tyrant seems too complex for a duel deck, newbs don't like upkeep cost, so i doubt it'll be in either.
:/ Gah, I'm too tired to think.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
It's pretty easy to forget about Karrthus because he sucks. Even if you can get past the fact that his control ability is irrelevant, giving your dragons haste is a joke. It doesn't provide ANY benefit to any dragons that are already on your side of the table, and how many dragons are you planning on casting AFTER a seven-mana one? He is a complete failure as a dragon "lord" and Bladewing the Risen looks downright playable by comparison.
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---
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As for a guess what will be in the decks, I'd think:
Knights
Kinsbale Cavalier (tribal)
Knight Exemplar (tribal)
Zhalfirin Commander (tribal)
Lightwielder Paladin (weak, but could be alright against a probably mono-red Dragon deck)
Southern Paladin (The probably stronger version of Lightwielder)
Pentarch Paladin (This would be better than Lightwielder or Southern Paladin, we'll probably get one of these "Hate Cards", but more than one would be nice.)
Silver Knight
Dragons
Crucible of Fire (tribal)
Dragonspeaker Shaman (solid card for an all-Dragon deck)
Zirilan of the Claw (potentially really awesome, a solid old-school Dragon-love card, but also potentially really abusable)
Kilnmouth Dragon (tribal equivalent to Lightwielder/Southern/Pentarch Paladin)
Hunted Dragon (epically appropriate)
Great calls on the rest of the knights and dragons, but Zirilan is on the reserved list... Pity because it would be nice to see it with the new ORacle creature type of Viashino Shaman...
"You said you wanted to cast what?! Counter that!"
I think we got Viashino Shaman in Alara, that or Ravnica. But yeah, good calls, I think Hunted Dragon is a shoe-in for the deck, he just fits too well not to not be in there. I just want to know who the mythic dragon and knight will be. I almost want to think the Mythic for dragons will be worldgorger, but what escapes me is the knight mythic. Gotta be an old updated card, please wizards, don't give us Rafiq.
EDIT: Also, White versus Balck-Red would make sense. Bladewing the Risen, perhaps?
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I'd almost rather see Lost Order of Jarkeld with new, non-terribad art, but what are the odds of something other than a pumpknight from that long ago coming back?
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Ah, I didn't know that about Zirilan, too bad indeed. Glad I have a copy for the silly Dragon EDH I want to build.
As for the mythic slot, it's hard to tell, a few knights stick out as potentially mythic, while a multitude of dragons do the same. We can say with some certainty that some cards won't be in it, Baneslayer Angel for example won't be in the Knight deck as the Mythic, even if it fits the theme. Perhaps it will be Paladin en-Vec or Kinsbale Cavalier but both of those don't seem "flashy" enough when compared to some of the Dragons at red's disposal.