It seems like WG still needs to stay within the Horror genre, so "Cat" people don't really fit IMO. My vote is for clerics to represent overly zealous religious types looking to rid the world of horror but becoming part of the horror themselves.
Edit: my money is on Clerics and that we'll get a GW Van Helsing type legendary creature. Maybe even a reprint of Undead Slayer
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Actually, now that I think of it, the clerics could work if they were like witches or something.
I think the cleric idea works in the horror genre because much like modern religious folk who mean well, do far more harm than good. They become part of the horror despite good intentions. I suppose one must wrestle with the fact that GW is typically the "good" color pair so how can "good" still work into the horror setting? I see clerics that go on inquisitions, witch hunts, holier-than-thou attitudes, elitism, and the like fitting very well into the horror genre. To quote a brilliant physicist: bad people will do bad things, good people will do good things, but for good people to do bad things it takes religion.
I think the GW tribe will be clerics, there will be a legendary GW Van Helsing character and the focus will be cards like Undead Slayer and blazing torch
Well, assuming WOTC will do something to represent the transformation aspect of werewolves, i doubt they'd utilize such a mechanic, or ability style, on one tribe.
So it's possible that the missing tribes (though we now know that GW is ghosts) may also center around transformation.
They could have Flashback for Vamps and Zombies to cover BRandUB, Threshold for Werewolves (they transform when the reach Threshold) and Ghosts/Spirits/Illusions (power up when more souls are around) to cover GRandWU. No idea if GW would fit in one of the two of if one of the GW or WU tribes would have some Graveyard hate... GW could have something like "GW: remove a creature from a graveyard, target creature gets +4/+4 until the end of turn"... which could fit for a "cleric" type tribe.
Having some Graveyard hate would be effective against both mechanics... taking away Flashback targets from one and preventing the other from reaching Threshold.
Innistrad sounds like it will be Ravnica-related or a total callback to Ravnica. I think I'd heard that elsewhere, from a more credible source than fan speculation, but I can't recall where now. The return of the keyword "Bloodthirst" further hints at this fact. It would also make sense since they are bringing back Garfield for this.
If that's the case, I'd say it's fairly likely we can expect enemy-color dual lands.
Also, "Innistrad" sounds very much like the name of a prison. The name "Horror Lurks Within" sounds like it entails the opening of a prison. What it sounds like is that there's some object within the prison that needs to be found (or somebody,) and that to get to that object means bypassing the hordes of "bloodthirsty" prisoners. We might be getting some creatures who are less sane and more brutal, and likely that they will be quite hostile after being locked away for so long. (EDIT: On second thought, it sounds like a hostile takeover of a prison by the gothic prisoners. Note the bars on the window in the spoiler image.)
The one thing that punches holes in my theory is that WotC are essentially offering tribute sets twice in a row. We got Mirrodin after seeing the return of Scry, and now we'll likely see Ravnica (meaning enemy-color creatures) after seeing the return of Bloodthirst.
Just realized that when MaRo made this article, when he talked about "circus World" he was really talking about Innistrad. maybe some clues as to what surprises might be in the set, or am I reaching?
I keep joking with Magic brand about designing a circus world, so I'll use that as my example (mostly because I'm pretty sure circus world will never be seeing the light of day—probably as it should be, by the way)
- Mark Rosewater, in the article you linked to.
I have no idea what could have possibly made you think Innistrad was a circus world. It's horror themed. I guess circuses can be kind of creepy, but the idea is supposed to be classic horror. Not to mention, he used circus as an example specifically because it will probably never be done.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
The only connection would be the basic concept of top-down worldbuilding, which is pretty natural considering the article is all about how to do good worldbuilding.
The large fall set in 2011 is "Shake." It began because we had a world we wanted to visit. Brady Dommermuth (Magic Creative Director, a.k.a. the head of the creative team) and I talked about what the world would be like years before the design team was even assembled. We had a concept for a world very much based on flavor and Brady and I bounced back and forth ideas about what kind of world it would be.
When my design team (myself, Jenna Helland, Graeme Hopkins, Tom LaPille and some random guy named Richard Garfield) sat down for the first time, I explained that our design goal was to create cards and mechanics that matched the flavor of the world. This is known as "top-down design." The goal of the designers is to match the feel of the world.
My point was that in taking a look at the approach MaRo took with circus world, you might be able to gleam some clues about how they approached Innistrad and what more we can expect. like the "heavy tribal" theme he mentioned, which manifests in Innistrad as the Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies, etc. If you just replace all the stuff he said about circuses with stuff about Castlevania-land, then you'll get where I'm going with that.
I tried looking through the info but couldn't find any info so sorry if this is a repost. Does anyone know why this is such a large set (264 not 249). Where are the extra cards going to fall in the Rareity Scale?
My point was that in taking a look at the approach MaRo took with circus world, you might be able to gleam some clues about how they approached Innistrad and what more we can expect. like the "heavy tribal" theme he mentioned, which manifests in Innistrad as the Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies, etc. If you just replace all the stuff he said about circuses with stuff about Castlevania-land, then you'll get where I'm going with that.
That doesn't tell us anything new... we've been hearing about how strongly top-down Innistrad's design is since before New Phyrexia was released.
And we've been explicitly told that the tribal themes in Innistrad are not "heavy," quite the opposite. They are present but not so strongly that you're forced to play into it, as in Lorwyn. Tribal themes are shared with a graveyard theme in this block.
The stuff you get for "circus world" won't necessarily translate into "horror world." Just because the circus setting's flavor leads to certain kinds of things doesn't mean the horror setting will lead to those same things. It's a different starting point, and will have a different end point.
Personally I would have preferred heavier tribal themes like in Lorwyn as I've found it to be an easier set to get newer players into and I also found it alot of fun to play as well.
Then again I also want hybrid to be evergreen and for there to be lots of multicolor cards so perhaps I'm not the best person to argue for tribal.
Chances are with the extra cards they'll be more basic lands because apparently thats important for some reason like with Besieged and New Phyrexia. I get why they did it for those two sets but that doesn't mean I agree with it.
Personally I would have preferred heavier tribal themes like in Lorwyn as I've found it to be an easier set to get newer players into and I also found it alot of fun to play as well.
Then again I also want hybrid to be evergreen and for there to be lots of multicolor cards so perhaps I'm not the best person to argue for tribal.
Chances are with the extra cards they'll be more basic lands because apparently thats important for some reason like with Besieged and New Phyrexia. I get why they did it for those two sets but that doesn't mean I agree with it.
The extra basics in MBS and NPH were for the purpose of showing how Mirrodin changed over time during the war and conversion into New Phyrexia. The lands in the first set change over time into the lands in the last set.
Those had extra slots for basic lands because small sets normally don't have any basics. Extra basic lands in a large expansion makes no sense because it already has 20 basics. The extra cards in ISD will certainly be normal cards, rarities still unknown. They could simply be increasing the "baseline" set size for large expansions, because they felt the trimmed down size used since Alara has been too restricting.
I'm hoping for a new version of Brothers Yamazaki in Innistrad. Just as a nod to the main characters of Supernatural (I mean this block and that series do seem to have a major overlap in themes and monsters!) They could even include an artifact that does something similar to Stoneforge Mystic to represent Metallicar. I mean they did it with Angel so why not Supernatural too?
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Doug beyer said at the end of his article today that next week
he will give a taste of the concept art and a bit of the planeswalkers guide to innistrad.
I'm excited!
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Who thinks the shocklands would make a lot of sense in Innistrad. Just think of the names:
Hallowed Fountain - Hallowed, or holy, relating to the religious aspect of the set
Watery Grave - Again the graveyard theme shines through with the name of this card
Temple Garden - A temple of worship perhaps
Godless Shrine - Perfect name for all of those cultist based cards revealed so far
Blood Crypt - If there is a better name for a vampire land, I don't know what it would be
Sacred Foundry - Sacred pretty much means holy, another spiritual theme
Overgrown Tomb - The word tomb, relating to a place where the dead lie
Stomping Ground - Less obvious, but it could simply be where the werewolves (RG tribe) hunt
Steam Vents - This one is a little odd, but Innistrad could have steam powered cities like in ravnica, especially if it is based off of the 19th century
Breeding Pool - The least obvious one, but I'm sure wizards would find a way to use it
What is the perfect enemy of monsters and horrors? Why, the church of course. And many of these lands have a religious-based name to them. In addition, the art depicts a city, much like Ravnica, or Innistrad!!!
Reprinting these lands now would be an excellent idea for wizards as it will draw tons of more people into the format and decrease price of the most expensive land cycle
Reprinting these lands now would be an excellent idea for wizards as it will draw tons of more people into the format and decrease price of the most expensive land cycle
Outside of the original Duals right? I'd say if, and it's a big IF they reprint the Ravnica Duals then it'd be in the revisit to Ravnica not in Innistrad
Edit- Not to mention but our Tribes are all Allied color so there's no need for Enemy colored duals.
Who thinks the shocklands would make a lot of sense in Innistrad. Just think of the names:
Hallowed Fountain - Hallowed, or holy, relating to the religious aspect of the set
Watery Grave - Again the graveyard theme shines through with the name of this card
Temple Garden - A temple of worship perhaps
Godless Shrine - Perfect name for all of those cultist based cards revealed so far
Blood Crypt - If there is a better name for a vampire land, I don't know what it would be
Sacred Foundry - Sacred pretty much means holy, another spiritual theme
Overgrown Tomb - The word tomb, relating to a place where the dead lie
Stomping Ground - Less obvious, but it could simply be where the werewolves (RG tribe) hunt
Steam Vents - This one is a little odd, but Innistrad could have steam powered cities like in ravnica, especially if it is based off of the 19th century
Breeding Pool - The least obvious one, but I'm sure wizards would find a way to use it
I agree that it could make sense,
and would definitely be a huge draw for experienced players.
Steam vents: Geyser/old faithful
Breeding pool: where the Dr.Frankensteins leave their confections to mature
Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden, Godless shrine, hallowed fountain:
All white based and use the human religion
Overgrown tomb, Watery grave, Blood crypt:
All black based and use the vast graveyards
Stomping Ground: Here there be monsters (this name fits on any plane)
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Edit: my money is on Clerics and that we'll get a GW Van Helsing type legendary creature. Maybe even a reprint of Undead Slayer
That would be great. And maybe even Blazing Torch or something.
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Old Custom Set: Imminence over Marycion
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I think the cleric idea works in the horror genre because much like modern religious folk who mean well, do far more harm than good. They become part of the horror despite good intentions. I suppose one must wrestle with the fact that GW is typically the "good" color pair so how can "good" still work into the horror setting? I see clerics that go on inquisitions, witch hunts, holier-than-thou attitudes, elitism, and the like fitting very well into the horror genre. To quote a brilliant physicist: bad people will do bad things, good people will do good things, but for good people to do bad things it takes religion.
I think the GW tribe will be clerics, there will be a legendary GW Van Helsing character and the focus will be cards like Undead Slayer and blazing torch
So it's possible that the missing tribes (though we now know that GW is ghosts) may also center around transformation.
Who knows?
I was under the impression that UW is ghosts and we don't know the GW tribe yet....
check it out at the bottom of this article: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/twtw/153
Click the pic for more info.
Having some Graveyard hate would be effective against both mechanics... taking away Flashback targets from one and preventing the other from reaching Threshold.
If that's the case, I'd say it's fairly likely we can expect enemy-color dual lands.
Also, "Innistrad" sounds very much like the name of a prison. The name "Horror Lurks Within" sounds like it entails the opening of a prison. What it sounds like is that there's some object within the prison that needs to be found (or somebody,) and that to get to that object means bypassing the hordes of "bloodthirsty" prisoners. We might be getting some creatures who are less sane and more brutal, and likely that they will be quite hostile after being locked away for so long. (EDIT: On second thought, it sounds like a hostile takeover of a prison by the gothic prisoners. Note the bars on the window in the spoiler image.)
The one thing that punches holes in my theory is that WotC are essentially offering tribute sets twice in a row. We got Mirrodin after seeing the return of Scry, and now we'll likely see Ravnica (meaning enemy-color creatures) after seeing the return of Bloodthirst.
Where was the official announcement? Could you link?
I'm apparently a little out of the loop, and I'm coming up with nada googling it.
My question is where it was confirmed that it's a new plane. I can't find anything to that effect, and would like to see it.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/112
Click the pic for more info.
- Mark Rosewater, in the article you linked to.
I have no idea what could have possibly made you think Innistrad was a circus world. It's horror themed. I guess circuses can be kind of creepy, but the idea is supposed to be classic horror. Not to mention, he used circus as an example specifically because it will probably never be done.
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
My point was that in taking a look at the approach MaRo took with circus world, you might be able to gleam some clues about how they approached Innistrad and what more we can expect. like the "heavy tribal" theme he mentioned, which manifests in Innistrad as the Vampires, Werewolves, Zombies, etc. If you just replace all the stuff he said about circuses with stuff about Castlevania-land, then you'll get where I'm going with that.
Click the pic for more info.
That doesn't tell us anything new... we've been hearing about how strongly top-down Innistrad's design is since before New Phyrexia was released.
And we've been explicitly told that the tribal themes in Innistrad are not "heavy," quite the opposite. They are present but not so strongly that you're forced to play into it, as in Lorwyn. Tribal themes are shared with a graveyard theme in this block.
The stuff you get for "circus world" won't necessarily translate into "horror world." Just because the circus setting's flavor leads to certain kinds of things doesn't mean the horror setting will lead to those same things. It's a different starting point, and will have a different end point.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Then again I also want hybrid to be evergreen and for there to be lots of multicolor cards so perhaps I'm not the best person to argue for tribal.
Chances are with the extra cards they'll be more basic lands because apparently thats important for some reason like with Besieged and New Phyrexia. I get why they did it for those two sets but that doesn't mean I agree with it.
The extra basics in MBS and NPH were for the purpose of showing how Mirrodin changed over time during the war and conversion into New Phyrexia. The lands in the first set change over time into the lands in the last set.
Those had extra slots for basic lands because small sets normally don't have any basics. Extra basic lands in a large expansion makes no sense because it already has 20 basics. The extra cards in ISD will certainly be normal cards, rarities still unknown. They could simply be increasing the "baseline" set size for large expansions, because they felt the trimmed down size used since Alara has been too restricting.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
he will give a taste of the concept art and a bit of the planeswalkers guide to innistrad.
I'm excited!
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
Hallowed Fountain - Hallowed, or holy, relating to the religious aspect of the set
Watery Grave - Again the graveyard theme shines through with the name of this card
Temple Garden - A temple of worship perhaps
Godless Shrine - Perfect name for all of those cultist based cards revealed so far
Blood Crypt - If there is a better name for a vampire land, I don't know what it would be
Sacred Foundry - Sacred pretty much means holy, another spiritual theme
Overgrown Tomb - The word tomb, relating to a place where the dead lie
Stomping Ground - Less obvious, but it could simply be where the werewolves (RG tribe) hunt
Steam Vents - This one is a little odd, but Innistrad could have steam powered cities like in ravnica, especially if it is based off of the 19th century
Breeding Pool - The least obvious one, but I'm sure wizards would find a way to use it
What is the perfect enemy of monsters and horrors? Why, the church of course. And many of these lands have a religious-based name to them. In addition, the art depicts a city, much like Ravnica, or Innistrad!!!
Reprinting these lands now would be an excellent idea for wizards as it will draw tons of more people into the format and decrease price of the most expensive land cycle
Outside of the original Duals right? I'd say if, and it's a big IF they reprint the Ravnica Duals then it'd be in the revisit to Ravnica not in Innistrad
Edit- Not to mention but our Tribes are all Allied color so there's no need for Enemy colored duals.
I agree that it could make sense,
and would definitely be a huge draw for experienced players.
Steam vents: Geyser/old faithful
Breeding pool: where the Dr.Frankensteins leave their confections to mature
Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden, Godless shrine, hallowed fountain:
All white based and use the human religion
Overgrown tomb, Watery grave, Blood crypt:
All black based and use the vast graveyards
Stomping Ground: Here there be monsters (this name fits on any plane)
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks