Why is vial still legal? Why is BBE legal? Goyf? They banned lots of cards, which really stopped lots of decks.
Dredge is dead unless Traitor's Clutch and Bonehoards can get there. Faeries have lost the best card in the deck. How come those storm cards ar still around?
The perfect background music for the modern PT would have to be Yakety Sax. The zaniness will be endless.
Tarmogoyf just jumped by $15 on SCG. Shock lands at $40?? That's crazy..thank god I bought em back when they changed the format for like $15a playset because people were dumping them.
Well, this is kind of a let down in terms of the banned list... Guess I'll just keep playing EDH.
I'm pretty confused about Ancestral Visions, I mean it's a good card but it's pretty dead late game and only truly good on the first few turns so I doubt it would have been that much of a beating.
I think they went a bit too far with that banned list.
I agree with the Hypergenesis and Glimpse of Nature bannings, Hypergenesis was broken and elves with glimpse was too good(while elves without glimpse is simply good). Stoneforge Mystic is another banning which was probably justified, practically every deck outside of combo was running 4 and it's just as powerful in Modern as it is in Legacy(read "very powerful").
That said I think the rest of the bannings were probably a bit over the top. Having both Golgari Grave-Troll and Dread Return banned for dredge is unnecessary, they should have just banned return and unbanned the Troll. Having both Scapeshift and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle banned is also too much, simply banning Scapeshift would have made Valakut decks fair. Banning Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Ancestral Visions and Mental Misstep for blue also goes to far, simply getting rid of Jace 2.0 would have down powered any blue control deck to a decent level. And banning Bitterblossom to deal with a faerie deck which might or might not be strong is also pretty questionable.
To me the biggest surprise is that with all these over bannings based on power levels in Legacy, AEther Vial(long time legacy superstar) still isn't on the list(particularly since by banning Mental Misstep they made playing vial decks even more tempting).
whats the point of banning cards from dredge and affinity? most (all?) hate for the decks are legal in this format and both decks don't even dominate that format.
Awesome that the format is finally official. However the banned list remains painful. Hopefully after a year of data and a new crop of decks, cards that were part of the obvious archetypes will get unbanned.
whats the point of banning cards from dredge and affinity? most (all?) hate for the decks are legal in this format and both decks don't even dominate that format.
It was explicitly stated. Dredge kills turn 3, and both decks are annoying because they create a lottery of sorts - don't sideboard for them, dodge them in tournaments, and win. Or don't dodge them, and lose.
As a player attending PT Philly. I am highly pissed off about this change. They announced it 3 weeks before the Pro Tour. I've spent hours testing Extended even though the format is terriblle. Now I have to go out and buy all new cards which I don't have the money for. I don't think I will be attending my 1st Pro Tour anymore and I will quite possibly never attend a WotC sponsored event ever again.
As a player attending PT Philly. I am highly pissed off about this change. They announced it 3 weeks before the Pro Tour. I've spent hours testing Extended even though the format is terriblle. Now I have to go out and buy all new cards which I don't have the money for. I don't think I will be attending my 1st Pro Tour anymore and I will quite possibly never attend a WotC sponsored event ever again.
You've never played a game with an active jitte have you... in any format ever
It's an artifact than can be removed. It wasn't ban worthy in the past extended (before the change) format. If I remember Zoo (the premiere aggro deck) didn't always run it. I could understand if Stoneforge was still legal but it isn't.
How does testing with proxies help when you need cards to play in the Pro Tour.
Because you don't need to buy cards - any cards - until very shortly before a tournament? If you've already decided on a deck for the Pro Tour, you're well ahead of the curve; if you've already bought the cards for said deck, that's unfortunate, but I doubt you're in a majority here.
Regardless of whether or not you think the extensive banlist is good/bad, at least you can say the format will still be better than extended. C'mon people, be real.
The cards added to this banned list are absolutely ridiculous. Glimpse of Nature and Dread Return? Are you serious? They don't pay attention legacy and/or old extended at all. Elves and dredge become powerful when decks stop preparing for them. Then they come back roaring for 2 weeks, and then everyone sides for them again. Mental Misstep has absolutely no reason to be on the list ESPECIALLY WITH VIAL UNBANNED. What were they thinking? Ancestral Visions. Really? This card is in no way, shape, or form banworthy.
Now onto the cards that are borderline: I'll start with Jace, the Mind Sculptor. This could go either way. He sees play in every format. He's very good. However, the reason he dominated standard is because wizards decided to create an extremely slow, cost heavy standard season. Baneslayer was outclassed by the titans. That shouldn't have happened. Before Jace was banned, standard was basically a "win before turn 4 or you lose" format. It rips up extended because there are less answers to it in the format. Hell, even before he dominated, he was maybe a 3 of in some decks during zen/alara standard. Stoneforge and caw broke him. I think he will come off the list with time.
Stoneforge Mystic is a scary card. But I don't know if she'll be very dominating. She's extremely good in a lot of decks, but at the same time, many decks just try to shoehorn her in where she doesn't belong. I play 4 in my Big Zoo to fetch SoFF and SoFI, but I also play bloodbraid elf. She does not fit into 1drop zoo. Her interaction with Batterskull is quite broken, but decks in legacy using that interaction do not dominate as much as Mr. Forescythe would want you to believe. Modern has significantly more efficient artifact hate like Ancient Grudge to deal with Batterskull. Hell, it even has Trickbind to stifle stoneforge's search/the germ trigger. And you can't respond to that one. We'll wait and see, and I think she is a card they may pull off the list early to test. Maybe I'm just butthurt that I wanted to use her though...
Bitterblossom is another iffy card. I think that Stoneforge and BB cannot exist in the same format together outside of legacy, since the tokens can just pick up the equipment. I think one will eventually come off the list. Fae is good, but it never really dominated old extended, which I think most people are forgetting to use as a reference point. I'm talking Mirroden/Zen/M10. It was ok but it didn't dominate. If Stoneforge remains banned, I could see this coming off.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle Another iffy one, and I think this one should stay banned. Scapeshift was on the upswing in old extended, and aggro decks have a very hard time dealing with this deck.
Now for cards that I agree with: Hypergenesis Does anyone really need me to explain why this card should be banned? Turn 2 kills really suck when you can do nothing against them, and even then the deck could assemble a turn 1 kill with a god hand. I'm glad for it to be gone.
Cards that can come off: Chrome Mox. Not really sure what the reason was for banning this except maybe landing a turn 1 stoneforge really sucks for the other person. Its not as good here as it is in legacy because decks can't Hymn you on turn 1. Turn 1 Dark Confidant are good though. Perhaps maybe too good. Maybe I'm missing the reason this was banned.
Umezawa's Jitte With stoneforge gone, this card could come off. It wasn't hurting old extended and was a nice control element for aggressive decks. Sometimes aggro battles come down to who Jitt's first, but otherwise not that bad considering the new format will be aggro vs aggro in 90 percent of games.
BONUS SECTION: WHY ISN'T THIS FREAKING BANNED?!
Aether Vial. Are you guys serious? This card was banned in old extended because it was deemed to powerful. Now you make aggro decks the only decks viable and give them their best tool to fight control ALL while banning Mental Misstep? Big mistake. Ban it. Never let it see the light of day unless you decide to bring other stuff (namely MM) off the list.
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we'll see how it goes.
now its basically just a blue swarm aggro deck. the bannings mean the format will be skrewed towards aggro, and every aggro deck will trounce folk
Dredge is dead unless Traitor's Clutch and Bonehoards can get there. Faeries have lost the best card in the deck. How come those storm cards ar still around?
The perfect background music for the modern PT would have to be Yakety Sax. The zaniness will be endless.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
You've never played a game with an active jitte have you... in any format ever
I love this ban list, limits the more powerful cards, i am a bit surprised shackles wasn't banned.
I love misstep being banned, should be banned in legacy as well, terrible format warping pile that it is.
—Dr. Cox, Scrubs
I'm pretty confused about Ancestral Visions, I mean it's a good card but it's pretty dead late game and only truly good on the first few turns so I doubt it would have been that much of a beating.
now that stoneforge is banned, why isnt jitte unbanned?
I agree with the Hypergenesis and Glimpse of Nature bannings, Hypergenesis was broken and elves with glimpse was too good(while elves without glimpse is simply good). Stoneforge Mystic is another banning which was probably justified, practically every deck outside of combo was running 4 and it's just as powerful in Modern as it is in Legacy(read "very powerful").
That said I think the rest of the bannings were probably a bit over the top. Having both Golgari Grave-Troll and Dread Return banned for dredge is unnecessary, they should have just banned return and unbanned the Troll. Having both Scapeshift and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle banned is also too much, simply banning Scapeshift would have made Valakut decks fair. Banning Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Ancestral Visions and Mental Misstep for blue also goes to far, simply getting rid of Jace 2.0 would have down powered any blue control deck to a decent level. And banning Bitterblossom to deal with a faerie deck which might or might not be strong is also pretty questionable.
To me the biggest surprise is that with all these over bannings based on power levels in Legacy, AEther Vial(long time legacy superstar) still isn't on the list(particularly since by banning Mental Misstep they made playing vial decks even more tempting).
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It's good in a format of aggro mirrors, but control decks in Eternal formats tend not to worry too much about an active Jitte. Ditto combo decks.
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Scapeshift isn't banned.
I was looking so much to this format.....not anymore.
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Seeing JTMS and SFM banned is aggravating though. Modern has the tools to keep Stoneblade variants in check.
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Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
It was explicitly stated. Dredge kills turn 3, and both decks are annoying because they create a lottery of sorts - don't sideboard for them, dodge them in tournaments, and win. Or don't dodge them, and lose.
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You haven't played 12-post have you?
I heard that testing with proxies is a good idea.
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It's an artifact than can be removed. It wasn't ban worthy in the past extended (before the change) format. If I remember Zoo (the premiere aggro deck) didn't always run it. I could understand if Stoneforge was still legal but it isn't.
How does proxies help when you need the cards to play in the Pro Tour.
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Because you don't need to buy cards - any cards - until very shortly before a tournament? If you've already decided on a deck for the Pro Tour, you're well ahead of the curve; if you've already bought the cards for said deck, that's unfortunate, but I doubt you're in a majority here.
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The format is a joke.
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Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
Now onto the cards that are borderline: I'll start with Jace, the Mind Sculptor. This could go either way. He sees play in every format. He's very good. However, the reason he dominated standard is because wizards decided to create an extremely slow, cost heavy standard season. Baneslayer was outclassed by the titans. That shouldn't have happened. Before Jace was banned, standard was basically a "win before turn 4 or you lose" format. It rips up extended because there are less answers to it in the format. Hell, even before he dominated, he was maybe a 3 of in some decks during zen/alara standard. Stoneforge and caw broke him. I think he will come off the list with time.
Stoneforge Mystic is a scary card. But I don't know if she'll be very dominating. She's extremely good in a lot of decks, but at the same time, many decks just try to shoehorn her in where she doesn't belong. I play 4 in my Big Zoo to fetch SoFF and SoFI, but I also play bloodbraid elf. She does not fit into 1drop zoo. Her interaction with Batterskull is quite broken, but decks in legacy using that interaction do not dominate as much as Mr. Forescythe would want you to believe. Modern has significantly more efficient artifact hate like Ancient Grudge to deal with Batterskull. Hell, it even has Trickbind to stifle stoneforge's search/the germ trigger. And you can't respond to that one. We'll wait and see, and I think she is a card they may pull off the list early to test. Maybe I'm just butthurt that I wanted to use her though...
Bitterblossom is another iffy card. I think that Stoneforge and BB cannot exist in the same format together outside of legacy, since the tokens can just pick up the equipment. I think one will eventually come off the list. Fae is good, but it never really dominated old extended, which I think most people are forgetting to use as a reference point. I'm talking Mirroden/Zen/M10. It was ok but it didn't dominate. If Stoneforge remains banned, I could see this coming off.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle Another iffy one, and I think this one should stay banned. Scapeshift was on the upswing in old extended, and aggro decks have a very hard time dealing with this deck.
Now for cards that I agree with: Hypergenesis Does anyone really need me to explain why this card should be banned? Turn 2 kills really suck when you can do nothing against them, and even then the deck could assemble a turn 1 kill with a god hand. I'm glad for it to be gone.
Cards that can come off: Chrome Mox. Not really sure what the reason was for banning this except maybe landing a turn 1 stoneforge really sucks for the other person. Its not as good here as it is in legacy because decks can't Hymn you on turn 1. Turn 1 Dark Confidant are good though. Perhaps maybe too good. Maybe I'm missing the reason this was banned.
Umezawa's Jitte With stoneforge gone, this card could come off. It wasn't hurting old extended and was a nice control element for aggressive decks. Sometimes aggro battles come down to who Jitt's first, but otherwise not that bad considering the new format will be aggro vs aggro in 90 percent of games.
BONUS SECTION: WHY ISN'T THIS FREAKING BANNED?!
Aether Vial. Are you guys serious? This card was banned in old extended because it was deemed to powerful. Now you make aggro decks the only decks viable and give them their best tool to fight control ALL while banning Mental Misstep? Big mistake. Ban it. Never let it see the light of day unless you decide to bring other stuff (namely MM) off the list.