I've been testing against Zoo, and I'll say that any sort of control deck really suffers from the loss of Misstep. I honestly have a hard time imagining control being able to put up any kind of reasonable fight with this ban list.
You have been slightly misinformed. Control does not suffer from the loss of Mental Misstep. Every deck suffers from the loss of Mental Misstep.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
You guys do realize that when Legacy was born, it had a massive ban list too, right?
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
You guys do realize that when Legacy was born, it had a massive ban list too, right?
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
Unfortunately from the majority response on here, Wizards is creating a sour environment before one even is attempted to be made by the player base.
You guys do realize that when Legacy was born, it had a massive ban list too, right?
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
If they didn't want the playerbase to have a sour experience they wouldn't have made this change less than a month before the event.
Plus, there's no guarantee that a big ban list will mean a better first impression. There's a good chance they've banned things which would have helped keep whatever ends up being the dominant deck in check.
Unfortunately from the majority response on here, Wizards is creating a sour environment before one even is attempted to be made by the player base.
We've already made an investment - see Overextended's popularity (and even Modern's) as an unofficial format. Don't be so quick to declare this format a dud.
You guys do realize that when Legacy was born, it had a massive ban list too, right?
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
These are my thoughts exactly. The best way to kill a format is to make one's first impression with it - at a Pro Tour, no less - extremely negative. I couldn't imagine the tumult if we saw the first Modern Pro Tour dominated by Caw Blade, or at least UW/x Mystic.
If they didn't want the playerbase to have a sour experience they wouldn't have made this change less than a month before the event.
Plus, there's no guarantee that a big ban list will mean a better first impression. There's a good chance they've banned things which would have helped keep whatever ends up being the dominant deck in check.
As callow as this sounds - I suspect Wizards is much more willing to please the average player base instead of the relatively few players who are competing at Pro Tour Philadelphia. And besides, I suspect a lot of players - especially the ones on the gravy train and who are used to playing in these events - will welcome the chance to play something other than a Mystic control deck. Especially considering that a very large number of them had to play the much maligned White Weenie deck in Nagoya.
Not happy with the ban list because i planned on playing many of those cards...
Happy with them because i think it will be a very diverse format
they banned hypergenesis, dredge, affinity, dark depths, combo elves, stone blade, valakut, thopter foundry for the sake of having a diverse format? looks to me they banned the diverse format.
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
I understand why they went with a very conservative banned list. Still, I was grinning from ear to ear when I clicked on the article and that faded as many of the cards I was excited about were checked off one by one. Here's hoping Zoo has its way with early events.
Unfortunately from the majority response on here, Wizards is creating a sour environment before one even is attempted to be made by the player base.
I wouldn't take the initial gut reactions of MTGS members too seriously. 95% of posts of the first 10 pages in every Rumor Mill thread can be put into two categories:
1) "OMG THIS IS AWESOME"
2) "OMG THIS SUCKS IM QUITTING"
After seeing this announcement, I fully expected a rash of postings inspired by the relatively large ban list that didn't contain much thought besides outrage. I also fully expect that many of the people that have made and will make such posts will change their tones at some point in the near-future, either after a solid metagame at the PT or, inevitably, WotC makes changes to the ban list (and I fully expect any changes they make to be greeted by the same two types of posts I mentioned above).
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they banned hypergenesis, dredge, affinity, dark depths, combo elves, stone blade, valakut, thopter foundry for the sake of having a diverse format? looks to me they banned the diverse format.
There are two goals:
1) diversity
2) slow down the format
Some number of those decks would be very competitive without a banned list, but the fundamental turn in this format would be turn 3 (or perhaps, turn 2 under Hypergenesis). A format that can consistently manage a turn 3 kill is called Legacy; and besides, we don't have Force of Will here to put a stranglehold on the broken things that very fast combo decks can do.
Banning Jace and Stoneforge in Modern seems like a pretty good indication that both of those cards will get the axe in Extended, which will be relevant for GP San Diego.
These are my thoughts exactly. The best way to kill a format is to make one's first impression with it - at a Pro Tour, no less - extremely negative. I couldn't imagine the tumult if we saw the first Modern Pro Tour dominated by Caw Blade, or at least UW/x Mystic.
The flaw with this theory is that there's no guarantee that this big ban list will make a fairer format than a smaller list.
Banning Jace and Stoneforge in Modern seems like a pretty good indication that both of those cards will get the axe in Extended, which will be relevant for GP San Diego.
What makes you think GP San Diego will stay Extended?
We've already made an investment - see Overextended's popularity (and even Modern's) as an unofficial format. Don't be so quick to declare this format a dud.
Im not gonna call this format a dud. Im actually still looking forward to modern with a little fan girl attitude. Im just very much demeaned because the two decks I planned on fielding is done.
The flaw with this theory is that there's no guarantee that this big ban list will make a fairer format than a smaller list.
I'd doubt that this ban list will make the format less fair. Given the choice of a short ban list and a moderate chance at a broken format, and a long ban list with very little to no chance at a broken format, I'll take the latter every time. A broken format at its first event - at a Pro Tour - would just be a death knell.
Aether Vial
Ancient Den
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Stoneforge Mystic
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
I'm sorry, but with only one playable free counterspell in the format (MM), there is nothing broken about control in this format. Jace is a 4cmc sorcery speed spell that is game breaking if it resolves. There are many spells that fit that bill.
Dredge is fine without Golgari and I can deal with Thopter/Sword.
I'd doubt that this ban list will make the format less fair. Given the choice of a short ban list and a moderate chance at a broken format, and a long ban list with very little to no chance at a broken format, I'll take the latter every time.
Sure, but what makes you think that's the choice we have here? How do you know the longer list doesn't mean the same or even a greater chance of a broken format?
I think the ban list has some garbage choices, but I look forward to playing Merfolk!
that wouldn't be a good idea, since the deck wont have free land destruction (wasteland) and it would be missing all of its free counters (mental misstep, daze, force of will).
merfolk had better matchups against control and combo which the banned list weakened, but left aggro untouched (zoo).
Happy with them because i think it will be a very diverse format
Standard:
UControlW
RBig RedR
EDH:
UWGRafiq, the ManyUWG
GRWMayael the AnimaGRW
You have been slightly misinformed. Control does not suffer from the loss of Mental Misstep. Every deck suffers from the loss of Mental Misstep.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Count me in the minority for this, but I'm kinda glad that they started with a large ban list to play it safe. First impressions are important. The last thing I want to see is a sour experience from the playerbase after playing Modern for the first time.
Except the decks that suffer from Mental Misstep's existence? Like, say, the decks that rely on Wild Nacatl beats?
And if those decks stop suffering? What's this, they now have better match ups against decks that used Mental Misstep to beat them?
This is just basic logic, friend.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Unfortunately from the majority response on here, Wizards is creating a sour environment before one even is attempted to be made by the player base.
Thanks to Rivenor for the awesome Signature!
Trades
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Yep every banned/restricted card in Vintage was banned in Legacy. It was a fun time.
Junk is still fine too.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
If they didn't want the playerbase to have a sour experience they wouldn't have made this change less than a month before the event.
Plus, there's no guarantee that a big ban list will mean a better first impression. There's a good chance they've banned things which would have helped keep whatever ends up being the dominant deck in check.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
We've already made an investment - see Overextended's popularity (and even Modern's) as an unofficial format. Don't be so quick to declare this format a dud.
These are my thoughts exactly. The best way to kill a format is to make one's first impression with it - at a Pro Tour, no less - extremely negative. I couldn't imagine the tumult if we saw the first Modern Pro Tour dominated by Caw Blade, or at least UW/x Mystic.
As callow as this sounds - I suspect Wizards is much more willing to please the average player base instead of the relatively few players who are competing at Pro Tour Philadelphia. And besides, I suspect a lot of players - especially the ones on the gravy train and who are used to playing in these events - will welcome the chance to play something other than a Mystic control deck. Especially considering that a very large number of them had to play the much maligned White Weenie deck in Nagoya.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
they banned hypergenesis, dredge, affinity, dark depths, combo elves, stone blade, valakut, thopter foundry for the sake of having a diverse format? looks to me they banned the diverse format.
…( `\(o),,_/` ¯ : o : : : o `-, …. Beyond the hard times from now
have/want: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/80-quattros-trade-thread
I understand why they went with a very conservative banned list. Still, I was grinning from ear to ear when I clicked on the article and that faded as many of the cards I was excited about were checked off one by one. Here's hoping Zoo has its way with early events.
I wouldn't take the initial gut reactions of MTGS members too seriously. 95% of posts of the first 10 pages in every Rumor Mill thread can be put into two categories:
1) "OMG THIS IS AWESOME"
2) "OMG THIS SUCKS IM QUITTING"
After seeing this announcement, I fully expected a rash of postings inspired by the relatively large ban list that didn't contain much thought besides outrage. I also fully expect that many of the people that have made and will make such posts will change their tones at some point in the near-future, either after a solid metagame at the PT or, inevitably, WotC makes changes to the ban list (and I fully expect any changes they make to be greeted by the same two types of posts I mentioned above).
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
twitter
There are two goals:
1) diversity
2) slow down the format
Some number of those decks would be very competitive without a banned list, but the fundamental turn in this format would be turn 3 (or perhaps, turn 2 under Hypergenesis). A format that can consistently manage a turn 3 kill is called Legacy; and besides, we don't have Force of Will here to put a stranglehold on the broken things that very fast combo decks can do.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1959
The flaw with this theory is that there's no guarantee that this big ban list will make a fairer format than a smaller list.
What makes you think GP San Diego will stay Extended?
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Im not gonna call this format a dud. Im actually still looking forward to modern with a little fan girl attitude. Im just very much demeaned because the two decks I planned on fielding is done.
Thanks to Rivenor for the awesome Signature!
Trades
"You'll Never Walk Alone"
I'd doubt that this ban list will make the format less fair. Given the choice of a short ban list and a moderate chance at a broken format, and a long ban list with very little to no chance at a broken format, I'll take the latter every time. A broken format at its first event - at a Pro Tour - would just be a death knell.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Aether Vial
Ancient Den
Dark Depths
Glimpse of Nature
Golgari Grave-Troll
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Seat of the Synod
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Stoneforge Mystic
Tree of Tales
Vault of Whispers
I'm sorry, but with only one playable free counterspell in the format (MM), there is nothing broken about control in this format. Jace is a 4cmc sorcery speed spell that is game breaking if it resolves. There are many spells that fit that bill.
Dredge is fine without Golgari and I can deal with Thopter/Sword.
Will be interesting to see how merfolk fairs without the control component it exhibits in Legacy.
Sure, but what makes you think that's the choice we have here? How do you know the longer list doesn't mean the same or even a greater chance of a broken format?
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
It won't.
that wouldn't be a good idea, since the deck wont have free land destruction (wasteland) and it would be missing all of its free counters (mental misstep, daze, force of will).
merfolk had better matchups against control and combo which the banned list weakened, but left aggro untouched (zoo).
…( `\(o),,_/` ¯ : o : : : o `-, …. Beyond the hard times from now
have/want: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/80-quattros-trade-thread
Zooooo