If people use checklist cards, don't they still have to hide their "Extra Decks" from their tournament opponents, especially when the "Top 16 Decklists" haven't been released? Wizards says the way to use the checklist cards is like this:
You'll use the checklist card any time it's important to keep the identity of your card secret—in other words, when it's in your library, in your hand, or exiled face down. You'll switch to the double-faced card when the card is on the stack, on the battlefield, in the graveyard, or exiled face up.
So, if people are actually swapping checklist cards with double-sided cards, won't they need Extra Decks? Thus, if your opponent catches your short stack of face-up cards, won't they glean information about your deck? And how will tournament players hide the dang double-sided cards until it is time?
Seriously loving the werewolves. I might go Naya so that I can splash in white Silence style effects (Meaning that I can stop my opponent from playing spells to give a coordinated attack).
Silence is a spell, and casting it would negate the flip mechanic. It says is no spell were cast, so your silence would prevent the trigger.
I personally see the new mechanics as far better than any of the past two blocks. Levellers were horrible tempo losses, and infect was just annoying.
I'm looking forward to rotation, that's for sure. I didn't like Zen block at all due to the overpowered nature of a few specific cards.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
I guess old school players (for the most part) are upset about this whole new rules stuff (flip and fight ect) but as a player who has been in it about a year... i think its pretty awesome. I cant wait to get my hands on some.
Be careful not to say "Change nothing about this game" it would get real old real fast. Maybe contact Wotc or Maro (he gets blamed for everything anyway) and say just start back at alpha and reprint everything up till zen then start over again.
I think the rules for drafting double-faced cards are hilarious. You can do pretty much anything to try and hide the double faced card. lol. I think I'll wear a cape to drafts from now on.
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"Have you ever tried running with a grape suit on? Then you haven't lived!"
-Squee (my friend's nickname, not the goblin.)
If people use checklist cards, don't they still have to hide their "Extra Decks" from their tournament opponents, especially when the "Top 16 Decklists" haven't been released? Wizards says the way to use the checklist cards is like this:
So, if people are actually swapping checklist cards with double-sided cards, won't they need Extra Decks? Thus, if your opponent catches your short stack of face-up cards, won't they glean information about your deck? And how will tournament players hide the dang double-sided cards until it is time?
It will probably be similarly to the same way tokens are currently handled. Just keep the double-sided cards with your sideboard until needed.
okay i'm not really one to jump on the hating a keyword ability based solely on its name, but fight just sounds stupid. i can handle enters the battlefield, i can handle dies, but fight? couldn't they have come up with something more dynamic sounding than what 4th graders do on the playground?
But it's exactly what the creatures do, they fight. I love it, as it's completely flavorful in describing what it does.
I like Morbid. I think that it'll really make combat interesting, as if I swing wildly with my 1/1 into your pile of 3/3s, you have to think about whether or not to block. It will reward good play.
Flashback is one of my favorite old mechanics. I've said it before, I'm glad to see it back.
Transform is one of those mechanics that I think needs to grow on me a bit. I'm opposed to it right now, but that may change. It is interesting to see that Wizards has started exploring "untouchable" design space, in this case card backs. I don't think it'll really be a problem due to the high amount of the checklists available.
Just read the rules article and did not see anything on the casting cost of the transformed side while it is transformed. They only covered that its casting cost while in you deck is x not zero. So is it the same when flipped or seeing as it has none you can blow it up with Ratchet Bomb with n counters on it.
Looks like Silence won't be good for transforming your dudes into vicious beasts, but it will stop them from turning back for another turn if you play it right.
on "Fight"-much like "dies", it's likely to save space on cards. They won't be printing the reminder text on every one, I'd imagine, so cards that do this will actually have room for other stuff on them. It wasn't particularly wordy before, as abilities go, but something tells me they're gunning to make this green's take on removal. So, if it can fit easily on any card, all the better.
As for the transformers (more than meets the eye! Transformers! Monsters in disguise!), no one's brought up the real wrinkle on this one--How are the guys behind Octagon and MWS going to get this to work in their games!?
I don't care how good or bad, or boring or fun. I get to play WEREWOLF TRIBAL!!! I've waited years for this, you punks aren't going to ruin this for me.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
So, if people are actually swapping checklist cards with double-sided cards, won't they need Extra Decks? Thus, if your opponent catches your short stack of face-up cards, won't they glean information about your deck? And how will tournament players hide the dang double-sided cards until it is time?
Like the other guy said, you can keep the flip cards hidden with your sideboard and only bring them out when you play the checklist card.
I'm telling you though, I imagine what will end up happening in constructed events is people will proxy the back of the card (or if they have 8 copies of the card that works too) and use sleeves for the "real" card and put that in the deck. Then when the trigger happens and you flip it, that's when you bring the proxied back of the card... rather than physically taking the card out of it's sleeve and flipping it.
But I don't know these things well enough to be certain.
Most of your doesn't fight list looks like it will get errata, to me. Take Cyclops Gladiator and Durkwood Tracker for example, to use theoretical new errata:
Whenever Cyclops Gladiator attacks, you may have it fight target creature defending player controls.
^ This is functionally the same as before, except previously you chose whether to do the damage (and retaliation). The damage is still done to each object at the same time.
1G, T: If Durkwood Tracker is on the battlefield, it fights target attacking creature.
Ditto here.
You might be right about your doesn't fight list, though, now that I'm rereading the "similar but not identical" statement. It doesn't seem to me that the two I mentioned would not have the errata, though.
If people use checklist cards, don't they still have to hide their "Extra Decks" from their tournament opponents, especially when the "Top 16 Decklists" haven't been released? Wizards says the way to use the checklist cards is like this:
So, if people are actually swapping checklist cards with double-sided cards, won't they need Extra Decks? Thus, if your opponent catches your short stack of face-up cards, won't they glean information about your deck? And how will tournament players hide the dang double-sided cards until it is time?
Whenever I actually run into a situation where I need to use extra cards (i.e.: tokens) that aren't a part of the sideboard I usually stick them into penny sleeves and keep them next to the sideboard inside the deck box. If an opponent asks to see them, you aren't required to tell them anything. If he calls the judge on you, tell him that they are separate from the legal sideboard and are merely extra cards used to represent things in the same way that tokens are.
Then inform your opponent that he made a very rude gesture and it hurt your feelings.
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Even if the author is silenced, the performance is stopped, the story will not end.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Just read the rules article and did not see anything on the casting cost of the transformed side while it is transformed. They only covered that its casting cost while in you deck is x not zero. So is it the same when flipped or seeing as it has none you can blow it up with Ratchet Bomb with n counters on it.
Casting cost is the same as the original non-flipped side.
I hate flips, and I will not play them in a constructed deck I hate them so much. It's too bad I really thought day/night would be cool.
Casual Modern UG Werewolves with Aether Vial shenanigans and fun instants of that sort for the opponent's turn. Now I kinda want to see what the rest of the tribe has
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Just read the rules article and did not see anything on the casting cost of the transformed side while it is transformed. They only covered that its casting cost while in you deck is x not zero. So is it the same when flipped or seeing as it has none you can blow it up with Ratchet Bomb with n counters on it.
That's without taking any possible rule changes that are likely to happen with a new release. Usually they make the rules changes with new set releases to clarify the intention of the mechanic.
The flipped card might have it's CMC stay the same as the original card.
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Legacy Decks
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
"Fight" makes me very very sad. I can live with dies but... Fight?... I don't know... Sounds like a dumb version of Magic. It's not like we're not smart enough to read trough 3 lines of text. Or at least get a solution that does not look like it was thought up two seconds before the deadline.
I think you're missing the point of keywords. Wizards could replace every keyword with it's reminder text, under the assumption that the consumer is "smart" enough to read it all, but that would be an awful idea. Fight is easily understood, intuitive, and saves space the textbox and the players' mind. It does everything a keyword should do.
My friend and I have concluded that it will cause significant wear and tear to cards to keep having to pull them out of the sleeve and flip them over (when they're on the battlefield), especially with Werewolves that can flip as often as every turn.
The best solution we came up with is to play with a Checklist card in your library and keep the actual card in a transparent sleeve that can be flipped without removing it from the sleeve.
IMO, this is a cool idea flavorfully but will be extremely annoying to play with.
Like the other guy said, you can keep the flip cards hidden with your sideboard and only bring them out when you play the checklist card.
I'm telling you though, I imagine what will end up happening in constructed events is people will proxy the back of the card (or if they have 8 copies of the card that works too) and use sleeves for the "real" card and put that in the deck. Then when the trigger happens and you flip it, that's when you bring the proxied back of the card... rather than physically taking the card out of it's sleeve and flipping it.
No. NO! You NEVER put extra cards with your deck/sideboard. You should have exactly 60(+) + 15 format legal cards in your deck box. You also NEVER mix extra cards from outside the game into the play area. Any Magic playing card in the play area should be from your maindeck + sideboard.
wow this doublesided flip thing looks fun as! This set is going to play so well. The cards scream flavor. I can't wait to get some hands on time with them.
Flip thing seems well thought out. Personally I'll just run them in clear cases, solves alot of problems and allows me to mess with there mind a bit. Can, not, wait!
okay, garruk is the exception
So, if people are actually swapping checklist cards with double-sided cards, won't they need Extra Decks? Thus, if your opponent catches your short stack of face-up cards, won't they glean information about your deck? And how will tournament players hide the dang double-sided cards until it is time?
Silence is a spell, and casting it would negate the flip mechanic. It says is no spell were cast, so your silence would prevent the trigger.
I personally see the new mechanics as far better than any of the past two blocks. Levellers were horrible tempo losses, and infect was just annoying.
I'm looking forward to rotation, that's for sure. I didn't like Zen block at all due to the overpowered nature of a few specific cards.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Be careful not to say "Change nothing about this game" it would get real old real fast. Maybe contact Wotc or Maro (he gets blamed for everything anyway) and say just start back at alpha and reprint everything up till zen then start over again.
-Squee (my friend's nickname, not the goblin.)
Favorite EDH Decks:
RBG Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
W Kemba, Kha Regent
R Kiki-Jiki, Mirror-Breaker
Emmara Tandris
It will probably be similarly to the same way tokens are currently handled. Just keep the double-sided cards with your sideboard until needed.
But it's exactly what the creatures do, they fight. I love it, as it's completely flavorful in describing what it does.
I like Morbid. I think that it'll really make combat interesting, as if I swing wildly with my 1/1 into your pile of 3/3s, you have to think about whether or not to block. It will reward good play.
Flashback is one of my favorite old mechanics. I've said it before, I'm glad to see it back.
Transform is one of those mechanics that I think needs to grow on me a bit. I'm opposed to it right now, but that may change. It is interesting to see that Wizards has started exploring "untouchable" design space, in this case card backs. I don't think it'll really be a problem due to the high amount of the checklists available.
As for the transformers (more than meets the eye! Transformers! Monsters in disguise!), no one's brought up the real wrinkle on this one--How are the guys behind Octagon and MWS going to get this to work in their games!?
Sig and Avatar by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Shop!
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Morph.
Just...
[disapproval]
Oh, and 'fight'.
In other news, I really think Auras should be their own card type.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Like the other guy said, you can keep the flip cards hidden with your sideboard and only bring them out when you play the checklist card.
I'm telling you though, I imagine what will end up happening in constructed events is people will proxy the back of the card (or if they have 8 copies of the card that works too) and use sleeves for the "real" card and put that in the deck. Then when the trigger happens and you flip it, that's when you bring the proxied back of the card... rather than physically taking the card out of it's sleeve and flipping it.
Whenever Cyclops Gladiator attacks, you may have it fight target creature defending player controls.
^ This is functionally the same as before, except previously you chose whether to do the damage (and retaliation). The damage is still done to each object at the same time.
1G, T: If Durkwood Tracker is on the battlefield, it fights target attacking creature.
Ditto here.
You might be right about your doesn't fight list, though, now that I'm rereading the "similar but not identical" statement. It doesn't seem to me that the two I mentioned would not have the errata, though.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Whenever I actually run into a situation where I need to use extra cards (i.e.: tokens) that aren't a part of the sideboard I usually stick them into penny sleeves and keep them next to the sideboard inside the deck box. If an opponent asks to see them, you aren't required to tell them anything. If he calls the judge on you, tell him that they are separate from the legal sideboard and are merely extra cards used to represent things in the same way that tokens are.
Then inform your opponent that he made a very rude gesture and it hurt your feelings.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Casting cost is the same as the original non-flipped side.
I hate flips, and I will not play them in a constructed deck I hate them so much. It's too bad I really thought day/night would be cool.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
That's without taking any possible rule changes that are likely to happen with a new release. Usually they make the rules changes with new set releases to clarify the intention of the mechanic.
The flipped card might have it's CMC stay the same as the original card.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
I think you're missing the point of keywords. Wizards could replace every keyword with it's reminder text, under the assumption that the consumer is "smart" enough to read it all, but that would be an awful idea. Fight is easily understood, intuitive, and saves space the textbox and the players' mind. It does everything a keyword should do.
The best solution we came up with is to play with a Checklist card in your library and keep the actual card in a transparent sleeve that can be flipped without removing it from the sleeve.
IMO, this is a cool idea flavorfully but will be extremely annoying to play with.
No. NO! You NEVER put extra cards with your deck/sideboard. You should have exactly 60(+) + 15 format legal cards in your deck box. You also NEVER mix extra cards from outside the game into the play area. Any Magic playing card in the play area should be from your maindeck + sideboard.
Flip thing seems well thought out. Personally I'll just run them in clear cases, solves alot of problems and allows me to mess with there mind a bit. Can, not, wait!
Oh.
You're right.
Oh well, still prevents my wolfies from going into humie mode.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Thanks for giving us cards we can't actually play, Wizards.