I so wanted to make a Werewolf deck, but this is going to be really difficult. I don't like how your opponent can screw you over. A lot of the people I play against tend to overextend anyway, meaning they'll almost ALWAYS be casting two spells a turn. I really hope there's a werewolf that restricts your opponent to one spell a turn.
Concerns about Double-faced cards aside, I'm troubled that there isn't a single mechanic in the article that actually does anything new. They're all super flavorful, and perhaps the combination will feel new, but each individual idea feels quite stale.
Double-Faced is pretty much exactly the same technology as flip cards, just with a splashier implementation and a removal of the no-unflipping restriction.
Curse is a subtype used only for reference by other cards, a little bit like Arcane.
Flashback is reprinted, so far with no new tricks up its sleeve.
Morbid is an ability word for a fairly straightforward trigger.
Fight is also just a new word for an idea that already existed.
It looks to me like my inner fantasy nerd is going to be super happy, but my inner strategy game nerd won't have much new to chew on. Again, it's tough to make judgments without playing the environment as a whole, but I'm not seeing the meaty goodness here. Is anyone else?
Quite interesting IMO. I can't wait to get my hands on a foil double sided card; it's like 2 foils in one oh yeah no matter what side you look at lol.
Thank god for the checklists though. It would be ridiculous to require sleeves in drafts; the outrage over it would be huge.
As for keeping track of how many spells are played a turn, it really isn't that difficult if you actually, you know, pay attention to what's going on. At least I do that during games of magic; I care when my opponent plays a card.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
There's two really big qualms I have with flip cards.
1.) The ability to cheat is quite easy now. Let's say I'm playing 4 copies of Mayor of Avabruck, in my deck as check lists. But I personally only own one or two copies of him, outside of a deck check there's no way to prove that I'm not cheating if I'm keeping my extra cards hidden.
2.) For any major tournament, States, PTQs, ect. Everyone is going to have to have deck checks for using flipped cards. This will eat so much of the events time it's ridiculous! While I think the mechanic is neat and interesting, I think we would have been better off with two separate cards and a side deck that contains the transformed versions of the cards.
For Tournament play, I'll be staying as far away from these as possible.
No. NO! You NEVER put extra cards with your deck/sideboard. You should have exactly 60(+) + 15 format legal cards in your deck box. You also NEVER mix extra cards from outside the game into the play area. Any Magic playing card in the play area should be from your maindeck + sideboard.
Why not?
Think about it... if the card is a proxy... and it's only the back side of the card. You aren't going to confuse that with the rest of your sideboard cards. And you can't "cheat" and throw in these proxies when you are sideboarding because you can't actually play the back side of the card because it has no mana cost.
The proxied backs of these cards function exactly like tokens in this sense. And would you not hide tokens under your sideboard (or in your deck box... whatever) if you wanted to keep that information away from your opponent. Before these flip cards came about for example, if you had 3/3 beast tokens... you don't want your opponent knowing you are playing green so you have to hide them somehow. Hide the proxies the same way.
My question is... how the hell do you expect to transform? Both players not play... ANYTHING? When does that ever happen unless your mana screwed or just have nothing to play? Or hell anything instant just ruining your day at your end step to prevent the transformation? Is this why Grand Abolisher got printed? Guaranteed transformation?
Transforming back will be annoying as hell with the amount of crap people fling at each other or just simply play stuff! I am already not a fan of how the transform mechanic works. Hopefully there will be a card that will make turning day into night much easier.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Def going to include Morbid cards (oooh, that sounds so wonderful) into my gluttony deck. So much sacing going on it will almost guarantee that it will go off with it's morbid ability (oooh, again, sounds so good)
Fight is a new name for an mechanic that has been around for over a decade. It's been around longer than Yugioh.
I haven't been playing the game for too long, but the "two creatures deal damage to each other" has been a major deterrent from Yu-Gi-Oh to me in my earlier years. Seeing it in Magic just makes me a bit leery, but apparently it isn't new. That does ease a lot of my apprehensions towards it
There's two really big qualms I have with flip cards.
1.) The ability to cheat is quite easy now. Let's say I'm playing 4 copies of Mayor of Avabruck, in my deck as check lists. But I personally only own one or two copies of him, outside of a deck check there's no way to prove that I'm not cheating if I'm keeping my extra cards hidden.
You would just have to prove you have the real copies of the cards if someone asks for proof.
Honestly, for constructed I think most people will use sleeves anyway so it's a moot point. The checklists would be used for limited because not everyone brings their own sleeves for that.
Fight is a new name for an mechanic that has been around for over a decade. It's been around longer than Yugioh.
I doubt its older than Yugioh after all Yugioh was played in ancient Egypt
Also I have really mixed feelings about this flip card thing. I really like the idea of cards that have two different modes but I really don't like how they're executing it. It just seems overly complex to play with and that it will screw with casual players
As much as I like the fight mechanic, I feel there is an inherent problem in the word choice when fighting something does not result in combat damage.
I agree. I always felt like there must be an elegant solution out there that allows things like flying and first strike to be relevant to creature-on-creature combat. My ground-pounder should not be able to pick a fight with your Squadron Hawk, no matter how much I want it to.
So, I opened this up because I was looking at the spoiler and was confused by the differing card faces and the little sun and moon symbols. So I look at the first few pictures and I'm like "Oh, so they're like split cards but creatures" Then actually read the checklist thing and suddenly shat a brick of confusion.
That said...why didn't they just do this with a split-card like thing? I mean, the whole transform thing is wordy in itself but....UGHH.
I was really liking the flavor of everything but this is by far the most awkward thing they could have done with the set.
And yes, having very specific tokens that you'd have to collect or even separate cards for each transformation to force you to trade like mad and such would be less awkward than this.
Also...Sideboarding man! I could have what *looks* like a 30-card sideboard because I have 15 flip cards with 15 corresponding checklist card things...and then...ugh. I guess it wouldn't have to look like that depending on where I put my flip cards and such...but this is just going to lead to so many awkward situations. I hope i'm just sorely misunderstanding how the whole thing works.
There's two really big qualms I have with flip cards.
1.) The ability to cheat is quite easy now. Let's say I'm playing 4 copies of Mayor of Avabruck, in my deck as check lists. But I personally only own one or two copies of him, outside of a deck check there's no way to prove that I'm not cheating if I'm keeping my extra cards hidden.
2.) For any major tournament, States, PTQs, ect. Everyone is going to have to have deck checks for using flipped cards. This will eat so much of the events time it's ridiculous! While I think the mechanic is neat and interesting, I think we would have been better off with two separate cards and a side deck that contains the transformed versions of the cards.
For Tournament play, I'll be staying as far away from these as possible.
Cheaters are gonna cheat that is not news. It would be as easy to include a 5th card on your deck since you never would need to show you opponent your deck unless he has extraction effect which are very few. Also you can cheat with sleight of hand with most blue scry cards.
Also proxies are not cheating since they wont change the skill necessary to play the deck (if having less copies of a card was not cheating you can then say having cash to play for 4 jace the mindscultor is cheating as well). The above is my humble opinion.
I agree. I always felt like there must be an elegant solution out there that allows things like flying and first strike to be relevant to creature-on-creature combat. My Runeclaw Bear should not be able to pick a fight with your Squadron Hawk.
why not? have you never been attacked by birds when you walk by their nests? I could attempt to punch them as they sweep to peck me i choose not to.
Been thinking about it for a bit. These will suffer from the browbeat effect, which means they will be fairly powerful on each side. I'd bet the soiled ones are some of the weakest.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
The back face's characteristics matter only if the card is on the battlefield and its back face is showing. Otherwise, only the front face's characteristics count. (For example, Gatstaf Shepherd's converted mana cost when it's in your deck is 2, not zero.)
This seems to indicate that for purposes of deck construction in Commander, only the Day side of a transform card matters for determining color identity. It'll be interesting to see if the Rules Committee agrees with that reading or if they do the unintuitive thing.
Been thinking about it for a bit. These will suffer from the browbeat effect, which means they will be fairly powerful on each side. I'd bet the soiled ones are some of the weakest.
Browbeat isn't overlooked because it has two powerful abilities, it's overlooked because it's up to your opponent to choose which part of Browbeat goes off, meaning that if your opponent is halfway competent it will never do what you want it to do. Most of these transform cards that we've seen build in a degree of control over when and how they transform. You want to make your werewolves transform? Cast two spells. You want them to go back to being werewolves? Don't cast anything. Easy as that.
There's two really big qualms I have with flip cards.
1.) The ability to cheat is quite easy now. Let's say I'm playing 4 copies of Mayor of Avabruck, in my deck as check lists. But I personally only own one or two copies of him, outside of a deck check there's no way to prove that I'm not cheating if I'm keeping my extra cards hidden.
2.) For any major tournament, States, PTQs, ect. Everyone is going to have to have deck checks for using flipped cards. This will eat so much of the events time it's ridiculous! While I think the mechanic is neat and interesting, I think we would have been better off with two separate cards and a side deck that contains the transformed versions of the cards.
For Tournament play, I'll be staying as far away from these as possible.
You say that now, but there's a chance that the next Jace the Mind Sculptor is printed on the back of a magic card.
I also have a feeling that you'll have to reveal your set-aside cards, which is kind of a disadvantage for playing with checklists.
I haven't been playing the game for too long, but the "two creatures deal damage to each other" has been a major deterrent from Yu-Gi-Oh to me in my earlier years. Seeing it in Magic just makes me a bit leery, but apparently it isn't new. That does ease a lot of my apprehensions towards it
You mean like TrackerArena, a card printed almost a decade before Yugioh was created?
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I doubt its older than Yugioh after all Yugioh was played in ancient Egypt
Also I have really mixed feelings about this flip card thing. I really like the idea of cards that have two different modes but I really don't like how they're executing it. It just seems overly complex to play with and that it will screw with casual players
Magic is from before the oceans drank atlantis and the rise of the sons of areus, so it was a bit earlier. But the real issue with the 'two sided cards' is the lack of mechanic difference between them and the flip cards of kamigawa
My question is... how the hell do you expect to transform? Both players not play... ANYTHING? When does that ever happen unless your mana screwed or just have nothing to play? Or hell anything instant just ruining your day at your end step to prevent the transformation? Is this why Grand Abolisher got printed? Guaranteed transformation?
Transforming back will be annoying as hell with the amount of crap people fling at each other or just simply play stuff! I am already not a fan of how the transform mechanic works. Hopefully there will be a card that will make turning day into night much easier.
It triggers during both upkeeps. So if no one plays a spell during either turn, it flips next turn. If two spells are played then if flips back.
Trades
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
Double-Faced is pretty much exactly the same technology as flip cards, just with a splashier implementation and a removal of the no-unflipping restriction.
Curse is a subtype used only for reference by other cards, a little bit like Arcane.
Flashback is reprinted, so far with no new tricks up its sleeve.
Morbid is an ability word for a fairly straightforward trigger.
Fight is also just a new word for an idea that already existed.
It looks to me like my inner fantasy nerd is going to be super happy, but my inner strategy game nerd won't have much new to chew on. Again, it's tough to make judgments without playing the environment as a whole, but I'm not seeing the meaty goodness here. Is anyone else?
Fight is a new name for an mechanic that has been around for over a decade. It's been around longer than Yugioh.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
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Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Thank god for the checklists though. It would be ridiculous to require sleeves in drafts; the outrage over it would be huge.
As for keeping track of how many spells are played a turn, it really isn't that difficult if you actually, you know, pay attention to what's going on. At least I do that during games of magic; I care when my opponent plays a card.
Currently Playing:
Retired
1.) The ability to cheat is quite easy now. Let's say I'm playing 4 copies of Mayor of Avabruck, in my deck as check lists. But I personally only own one or two copies of him, outside of a deck check there's no way to prove that I'm not cheating if I'm keeping my extra cards hidden.
2.) For any major tournament, States, PTQs, ect. Everyone is going to have to have deck checks for using flipped cards. This will eat so much of the events time it's ridiculous! While I think the mechanic is neat and interesting, I think we would have been better off with two separate cards and a side deck that contains the transformed versions of the cards.
For Tournament play, I'll be staying as far away from these as possible.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Why not?
Think about it... if the card is a proxy... and it's only the back side of the card. You aren't going to confuse that with the rest of your sideboard cards. And you can't "cheat" and throw in these proxies when you are sideboarding because you can't actually play the back side of the card because it has no mana cost.
The proxied backs of these cards function exactly like tokens in this sense. And would you not hide tokens under your sideboard (or in your deck box... whatever) if you wanted to keep that information away from your opponent. Before these flip cards came about for example, if you had 3/3 beast tokens... you don't want your opponent knowing you are playing green so you have to hide them somehow. Hide the proxies the same way.
Transforming back will be annoying as hell with the amount of crap people fling at each other or just simply play stuff! I am already not a fan of how the transform mechanic works. Hopefully there will be a card that will make turning day into night much easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Type 2
GW Populate
EDH
WB Teysa
WU Isperia
I haven't been playing the game for too long, but the "two creatures deal damage to each other" has been a major deterrent from Yu-Gi-Oh to me in my earlier years. Seeing it in Magic just makes me a bit leery, but apparently it isn't new. That does ease a lot of my apprehensions towards it
You would just have to prove you have the real copies of the cards if someone asks for proof.
Honestly, for constructed I think most people will use sleeves anyway so it's a moot point. The checklists would be used for limited because not everyone brings their own sleeves for that.
I doubt its older than Yugioh after all Yugioh was played in ancient Egypt
Also I have really mixed feelings about this flip card thing. I really like the idea of cards that have two different modes but I really don't like how they're executing it. It just seems overly complex to play with and that it will screw with casual players
I totally called it! Garruk's a mutha-flippin' planeswalker!
I demand atonement! Mods here closed peoples threads left and right citing some trustworthy "source" from some new post-er.
HAH!
I'll probably get infracted for this but I just wanted to put it put there. We were right.
I know I wasn't only one who thought it would be Garruk.
I agree. I always felt like there must be an elegant solution out there that allows things like flying and first strike to be relevant to creature-on-creature combat. My ground-pounder should not be able to pick a fight with your Squadron Hawk, no matter how much I want it to.
That said...why didn't they just do this with a split-card like thing? I mean, the whole transform thing is wordy in itself but....UGHH.
I was really liking the flavor of everything but this is by far the most awkward thing they could have done with the set.
And yes, having very specific tokens that you'd have to collect or even separate cards for each transformation to force you to trade like mad and such would be less awkward than this.
Also...Sideboarding man! I could have what *looks* like a 30-card sideboard because I have 15 flip cards with 15 corresponding checklist card things...and then...ugh. I guess it wouldn't have to look like that depending on where I put my flip cards and such...but this is just going to lead to so many awkward situations. I hope i'm just sorely misunderstanding how the whole thing works.
Cheaters are gonna cheat that is not news. It would be as easy to include a 5th card on your deck since you never would need to show you opponent your deck unless he has extraction effect which are very few. Also you can cheat with sleight of hand with most blue scry cards.
Also proxies are not cheating since they wont change the skill necessary to play the deck (if having less copies of a card was not cheating you can then say having cash to play for 4 jace the mindscultor is cheating as well). The above is my humble opinion.
why not? have you never been attacked by birds when you walk by their nests? I could attempt to punch them as they sweep to peck me i choose not to.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Browbeat isn't overlooked because it has two powerful abilities, it's overlooked because it's up to your opponent to choose which part of Browbeat goes off, meaning that if your opponent is halfway competent it will never do what you want it to do. Most of these transform cards that we've seen build in a degree of control over when and how they transform. You want to make your werewolves transform? Cast two spells. You want them to go back to being werewolves? Don't cast anything. Easy as that.
You say that now, but there's a chance that the next Jace the Mind Sculptor is printed on the back of a magic card.
I also have a feeling that you'll have to reveal your set-aside cards, which is kind of a disadvantage for playing with checklists.
You mean like
TrackerArena, a card printed almost a decade before Yugioh was created?Magic is from before the oceans drank atlantis and the rise of the sons of areus, so it was a bit earlier. But the real issue with the 'two sided cards' is the lack of mechanic difference between them and the flip cards of kamigawa
It triggers during both upkeeps. So if no one plays a spell during either turn, it flips next turn. If two spells are played then if flips back.