okay wizards did not think these miracle cards through, 5 damage for 1 mana? It's a instant and super super super easy to set up that scenario. Blue red burn anyone? All of these miracle are going to prove to be toooo powerful and be banned outright
To be fair, ALL miracle cards are an "instant" in the sense that they can be played in your draw step. Also, this card is not ban-worthy.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the actual video of the PAX panel reveals a lot more info that what just the text chat showed, ie, stuff like the names of the other two legendary angels and the explanation of revenants.
I'm looking at it here. A bit poor quality, but beggars can't be choosers.
I´m really excited about the soulbound mechanic, thinking about what it could do for birthing pod
by the way:
would a soulbound creature that gives undying work?
What do you mean by work?
If you had a creature that gave undying to another creature it was paired with then when they paired creature died it would come back with a counter yes.
How does miracle work with drawing more than one card at the end of your opponents turn (let's call it esper charm for simplicities sake)? Do you have to draw each card 1 at a time then miracle happens if it were the first card drawn, then you cast it, and then you draw the second card off of esper charm?
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Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the great banner.
How does miracle work with drawing more than one card at the end of your opponents turn (let's call it esper charm for simplicities sake)? Do you have to draw each card 1 at a time then miracle happens if it were the first card drawn, then you cast it, and then you draw the second card off of esper charm?
You reveal the miracle when you draw it, then keeping it revealed you finish resolving the draw spell. When that spell resolves, the miracle trigger goes on the stack and then it works the same as any other spell.
I really dont like this mechanic, how can i be sure my opponent just drew his miracle spell ? it's so easy to draw a card then switch it in your hand and have that stupid look
"oh i just drew a miracle spell, here i cast it"
For what may be the billionth time, I will explain this again:
If you draw a card and put it into your hand, you have missed your opportunity to cast a miracle.
No one has a problem with Delver of Secret's transform trigger. This works exactly the same way.
Except the Delver's trigger doesn't involve a draw. You reveal, transform, move to draw step, then draw. Miracle has two abilities, the first one says "As you draw ~, you may reveal it." The second one says "When you reveal ~, you may cast it for it's Miracle cost"
Because you reveal the card as a Part of drawing it, if it hit's your hand it's too late to reveal. Also, because the second ability is a trigger it can be responded to with instant-speed discard effects, Stifle effects, Mana Shorting, and Stopping ewe from casting spells.
When the trigger resolves, the spell may be cast for it's Miracle cost During the resolution of the trigger only. Because there's no duration of the trigger, the allowance only lets it get cast during the resolution of the ability, much like Cascade, if you elect not to cast it you will not get another chance unless in this case you put it back on top of your library for another turn.
Also, because the reveal and trigger are seperate, if the board position changes in such a way that you don't want to cast the spell for it's Miracle cost, you can elect not to. The casting is optional.
So here's how Miracle works:
1. Look at the card you 'are drawing' and decide if you want/are able to reveal* it from it's Miracle ability.
2. Miracle Triggers if you choose to reveal it.
3. Both players may cast spells/abilities while the trigger is on the stack, when they are ready they pass priority in succession
4. Miracle resolves giving you the one time opportunity to cast the spell.
*The card is revealed as long as the trigger from the Miracle is on the stack and the card is in your hand. If the ability leaves the stack or the card moves to another zone, the card isn't revealed anymore.
On Sigarda, Host of Herons, I just have to say THANK YOU for giving me another answer to the annoying as heck Gravepact and Eldrazi decks in Casual play.
Except the Delver's trigger doesn't involve a draw. You reveal, transform, move to draw step, then draw. Miracle has two abilities, the first one says "As you draw ~, you may reveal it." The second one says "When you reveal ~, you may cast it for it's Miracle cost"
Where on earth are you getting this? The explanation of how the ability works in the mechanics article doesn't mean it's two abilities. If it worked like this, you could Miracle the card any time you revealed it for any reason.
As I said, this works, functionally, like the Delver trigger. You look at the card you would draw before putting it in your hand, choose whether or not to reveal it (and in Miracle's case, cast it), and then continue as normal. Obviously Miracle is more complex than Delver--I was only comparing the two because everyone seems to think people will cheat Miracles when a card that's been in every format for six months has no problem.
Miracle bears a close resemblance to Madness. Both represent a static ability and a linked triggered ability. The current draft of the ability, available here, reads as follows.Your comparison with the Delver trigger is not accurate.
The comparison with the Delver trigger is not meant to be based on actual rules interactions; it's based on how the ability works 99% of the time in actual play.
Delver:
Upkeep: Look at top card. If instant or sorcery, reveal (if you want). Delver transforms. Put it in your hand as part of the draw step.
Miracle:
Draw: Look at top card. If miracle, reveal (if you want). Cast for miracle cost or put it in your hand.
Obviously the mechanics of the abilities do not work in identical ways. This does not change the fact that THE WAY PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME, Miracle does not represent a greater cheat risk than Delver does.
It sounds like people are either being deliberately thick, or are genuinely stupid. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so stop messing with Serpos, Merestil and Squillis. You get his point.
It's apparent that it ends up being the same sort of interaction as pertains to the argument of "People are going to cheat with these!"
Actually I can imagine people trying to cheat the other way as well.
You get your card for the turn and look at it. I happens to be a miracle card, meaning you go to play it announcing that you have it. You go to tap your mana and play the spell, but oops, you just touched your miracle card with the rest of your cards in hand. Now no one can tell whether you're cheating or not. Judges are called and words are exchanged. If you win you gain a huge tempo swing on your opponent dealing 5 damage for one mana, or taking an extra turn. If you lose you waste a draw getting an unplayable spell.
Miracle definitely seems swing-y to me and I'm sure that rules lawyers as well as cheats will be out in force.
Well, yeah, it does actually. I can't imagine a situation where you would draw an instant/sorcery and then NOT want to transform Delver. Whereas I can imagine plenty of situations where you wouldn't want to cast a Miracle when you draw it.
Still, saying all that, it's already been stated repeatedly that the easiest ruling is to show it before it goes into your hand if you want to Miracast it.
It's not "the easiest ruling." It's how you actually have to do it. Once the card goes into your hand it is impossible to determine whether or not manipulation has occurred.
Unfortunately the nutters have made a Time Walk 2.0 with Temporal Mastery and Vampiric Tutor and Brainstorm or any other Deck rigging card. Though in T2 it isn't that broken but it's going to be overpowered in draft. Since u are running 40 cards, it's very easy to run into a Miracle card. Happy drafting around Miracles. :D:D:D
Vampiric Tutor? What are you worried about with Vampiric Tutor, Vintage or Commander? Don't forget about Mystical Tutor!
I really dont like this mechanic, how can i be sure my opponent just drew his miracle spell ? it's so easy to draw a card then switch it in your hand and have that stupid look
"oh i just drew a miracle spell, here i cast it"
he doesnt have until hand to draw it, he has to reveal it before he puts it in with the rest of his hand and cast it right then on his draw steps ending
if he puts in his hand with the rest, it is too late, he cant miracle cast it even if he claims it is card he drew, he missed revealing it AS he drew it and therefore missed the trigger, there is no problem with this starting cheating, your opponent failed to get his trigger
Actually I can imagine people trying to cheat the other way as well.
You get your card for the turn and look at it. I happens to be a miracle card, meaning you go to play it announcing that you have it. You go to tap your mana and play the spell, but oops, you just touched your miracle card with the rest of your cards in hand. Now no one can tell whether you're cheating or not. Judges are called and words are exchanged. If you win you gain a huge tempo swing on your opponent dealing 5 damage for one mana, or taking an extra turn. If you lose you waste a draw getting an unplayable spell.
Miracle definitely seems swing-y to me and I'm sure that rules lawyers as well as cheats will be out in force.
What? If you're concerned about players cheating or lying to judges, that's something that could happen at any point. Miracle itself isn't to blame.
Actually I can imagine people trying to cheat the other way as well.
You get your card for the turn and look at it. I happens to be a miracle card, meaning you go to play it announcing that you have it. You go to tap your mana and play the spell, but oops, you just touched your miracle card with the rest of your cards in hand. Now no one can tell whether you're cheating or not. Judges are called and words are exchanged. If you win you gain a huge tempo swing on your opponent dealing 5 damage for one mana, or taking an extra turn. If you lose you waste a draw getting an unplayable spell.
Miracle definitely seems swing-y to me and I'm sure that rules lawyers as well as cheats will be out in force.
It's not that hard:
You reveal your miracle as you draw it. Then, leave it on the table until your draw is done, then pass priority. If opponent passes priority, then the miracle trigger resolves, and you can cast it for the miracle cost. Don't physically bring the card to your hand until you've looked and decided whether to reveal it.
The main difference with how you play Delver is that your opponent already knows you have a Delver, so they know why you're taking your time looking at the card before you either reveal it or bring it to your hand. In the case of miracles, looking at your first card drawn slower than normal can reveal that you're playing with miracles in your deck (unless you're bluffing).
I think if you practice you can make the motion fluid enough and it will eventually become natural. And if you're drawing multiple times, you shouldn't pull multiple cards simultaneously in a tournament anyway, because that also can be a source of cheating (5 card Brainstorm, anyone?). If you do, and the first one was a miracle, then I say tough luck.. once you took that 2nd card off the top, even if you hadn't seen the first one, you missed your miracle.
Also this is no doubt why they have a different border: so they're easy to quickly distinguish from other cards in the middle of your draw.
It's not a static ability; the objects affected by the continuous effect generated are set when it begins, as per CR 611.2c. This means that objects entering afterwards aren't affected, so it isn't a combo.
Thanks for clearing that up; looks like Ego Erasure still sucks!
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To be fair, ALL miracle cards are an "instant" in the sense that they can be played in your draw step. Also, this card is not ban-worthy.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I'm looking at it here. A bit poor quality, but beggars can't be choosers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXAd0FvNOo
Sig by Rivenor
Decks (All Budget)
Modern
WSoul SistersW
RGShamansRG
What do you mean by work?
If you had a creature that gave undying to another creature it was paired with then when they paired creature died it would come back with a counter yes.
buddy to soulbond with?
WUR Enduring Ideal RUW
GGG Stompy Crux GGG
-- Elder Dragon Highlander --
UBU
Grimgrin, Zombie HordeUBURWR
Jor Kadeen TronRWRBRU Sedris Beatdown URB
UUU Llawan, Empress of "No" UUU
WBW Vish Kal Tron WBW
GRG Thromok Token GRG
RRR Zo-Zu, Hater of Everything RRR
But it's: Soulbond.
Just think bond - as in two creatures are bonding together.
Weak argument, but still I assume that's why it's being used so much.
That or people just can't read. Hm.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
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You reveal the miracle when you draw it, then keeping it revealed you finish resolving the draw spell. When that spell resolves, the miracle trigger goes on the stack and then it works the same as any other spell.
I really dont like this mechanic, how can i be sure my opponent just drew his miracle spell ? it's so easy to draw a card then switch it in your hand and have that stupid look
"oh i just drew a miracle spell, here i cast it"
If you draw a card and put it into your hand, you have missed your opportunity to cast a miracle.
No one has a problem with Delver of Secret's transform trigger. This works exactly the same way.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Except the Delver's trigger doesn't involve a draw. You reveal, transform, move to draw step, then draw. Miracle has two abilities, the first one says "As you draw ~, you may reveal it." The second one says "When you reveal ~, you may cast it for it's Miracle cost"
Because you reveal the card as a Part of drawing it, if it hit's your hand it's too late to reveal. Also, because the second ability is a trigger it can be responded to with instant-speed discard effects, Stifle effects, Mana Shorting, and Stopping ewe from casting spells.
When the trigger resolves, the spell may be cast for it's Miracle cost During the resolution of the trigger only. Because there's no duration of the trigger, the allowance only lets it get cast during the resolution of the ability, much like Cascade, if you elect not to cast it you will not get another chance unless in this case you put it back on top of your library for another turn.
Also, because the reveal and trigger are seperate, if the board position changes in such a way that you don't want to cast the spell for it's Miracle cost, you can elect not to. The casting is optional.
So here's how Miracle works:
1. Look at the card you 'are drawing' and decide if you want/are able to reveal* it from it's Miracle ability.
2. Miracle Triggers if you choose to reveal it.
3. Both players may cast spells/abilities while the trigger is on the stack, when they are ready they pass priority in succession
4. Miracle resolves giving you the one time opportunity to cast the spell.
*The card is revealed as long as the trigger from the Miracle is on the stack and the card is in your hand. If the ability leaves the stack or the card moves to another zone, the card isn't revealed anymore.
[c=Black Lotus]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[c=Black Lotus|Alpha]Lotus[/c]=Lotus
[mana]WUBRGS-TQ-1-2-12-XY[/mana]=WUBRGS-TQ----XY
[mana]{WU}{UB}{BR}{RG}{GW}{WB}{BG}{GU}{UR}{RW}{2W}{2U}{2B}{2R}{2G}[/mana]=(W/U)(U/B)(B/R)(R/G)(G/W)(W/B)(B/G)(G/U)(U/R)(R/W)(2/W)(2/U)(2/B)(2/R)(2/G)
Triggered Ability-Whenever/When/At ..., (effect)
Replacement Effect-If/As ..., (effect)
Artist: //gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&artist=[%22Daniel%20Ljunggren%22">"]Daniel Ljunggren
Where on earth are you getting this? The explanation of how the ability works in the mechanics article doesn't mean it's two abilities. If it worked like this, you could Miracle the card any time you revealed it for any reason.
As I said, this works, functionally, like the Delver trigger. You look at the card you would draw before putting it in your hand, choose whether or not to reveal it (and in Miracle's case, cast it), and then continue as normal. Obviously Miracle is more complex than Delver--I was only comparing the two because everyone seems to think people will cheat Miracles when a card that's been in every format for six months has no problem.
Standard: W/R Aggro
The comparison with the Delver trigger is not meant to be based on actual rules interactions; it's based on how the ability works 99% of the time in actual play.
Delver:
Upkeep: Look at top card. If instant or sorcery, reveal (if you want). Delver transforms. Put it in your hand as part of the draw step.
Miracle:
Draw: Look at top card. If miracle, reveal (if you want). Cast for miracle cost or put it in your hand.
Obviously the mechanics of the abilities do not work in identical ways. This does not change the fact that THE WAY PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME, Miracle does not represent a greater cheat risk than Delver does.
Standard: W/R Aggro
It's apparent that it ends up being the same sort of interaction as pertains to the argument of "People are going to cheat with these!"
You get your card for the turn and look at it. I happens to be a miracle card, meaning you go to play it announcing that you have it. You go to tap your mana and play the spell, but oops, you just touched your miracle card with the rest of your cards in hand. Now no one can tell whether you're cheating or not. Judges are called and words are exchanged. If you win you gain a huge tempo swing on your opponent dealing 5 damage for one mana, or taking an extra turn. If you lose you waste a draw getting an unplayable spell.
Miracle definitely seems swing-y to me and I'm sure that rules lawyers as well as cheats will be out in force.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
If you can't imagine a situation where you might not transform Delver, you must have missed one of the most important sideboard cards in Standard right now.
It's not "the easiest ruling." It's how you actually have to do it. Once the card goes into your hand it is impossible to determine whether or not manipulation has occurred.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Do you mean as in two creatures who are bound together?
Vampiric Tutor? What are you worried about with Vampiric Tutor, Vintage or Commander? Don't forget about Mystical Tutor!
he doesnt have until hand to draw it, he has to reveal it before he puts it in with the rest of his hand and cast it right then on his draw steps ending
if he puts in his hand with the rest, it is too late, he cant miracle cast it even if he claims it is card he drew, he missed revealing it AS he drew it and therefore missed the trigger, there is no problem with this starting cheating, your opponent failed to get his trigger
What? If you're concerned about players cheating or lying to judges, that's something that could happen at any point. Miracle itself isn't to blame.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
It's not that hard:
You reveal your miracle as you draw it. Then, leave it on the table until your draw is done, then pass priority. If opponent passes priority, then the miracle trigger resolves, and you can cast it for the miracle cost. Don't physically bring the card to your hand until you've looked and decided whether to reveal it.
The main difference with how you play Delver is that your opponent already knows you have a Delver, so they know why you're taking your time looking at the card before you either reveal it or bring it to your hand. In the case of miracles, looking at your first card drawn slower than normal can reveal that you're playing with miracles in your deck (unless you're bluffing).
I think if you practice you can make the motion fluid enough and it will eventually become natural. And if you're drawing multiple times, you shouldn't pull multiple cards simultaneously in a tournament anyway, because that also can be a source of cheating (5 card Brainstorm, anyone?). If you do, and the first one was a miracle, then I say tough luck.. once you took that 2nd card off the top, even if you hadn't seen the first one, you missed your miracle.
Also this is no doubt why they have a different border: so they're easy to quickly distinguish from other cards in the middle of your draw.