It depends on the size of the tourney. We had 20-odd people, so the TO gave out the contents, realized that they had enough to do it again, and did so. The remaining cards and dice will probably be sold, I guess, or more likely given out as promotions for whatever.
If there are 54 or more people in the prerelease, then all contents should be given out, for free, to the players.
But I wouldn't automatically jump on TOs who're selling theirs, because they may have had a small prerelease.
Ours was kinda small, and our TO got 2 Helvaults. I asked if he was going to do another tourney and crack the second. He said "no i'll probably sell it on ebay because they go for $200. Or I'll open it later and sell everything". I thought that was pretty ****ty. Everyone ther could have easily gotten 3-4 oversized promos -.-
Ours was kinda small, and our TO got 2 Helvaults. I asked if he was going to do another tourney and crack the second. He said "no i'll probably sell it on ebay because they go for $200. Or I'll open it later and sell everything". I thought that was pretty ****ty. Everyone ther could have easily gotten 3-4 oversized promos -.-
Isn't that against Wizards policy? I'm pretty sure selling left over promotional materials is the kind of stuff that gets a store seriously banned from everything sanctioned. It's disgusting to me that anyone even thinks in these terms.
Its not random in the sense that only Advanced WPN stores have a chance of getting a "premium helvault." Core WPN stores can do little if their helvaults are guaranteed trash. I am positive that there would be negative feedback from Core organizers if they made this information public before the hyping of the helvault and the encouragement to "PreRegister to reserve your seat!"
Where was this communicated I don't remember hearing that only certain levels of stores could get the good helvaults where did you hear this?
Where was this communicated I don't remember hearing that only certain levels of stores could get the good helvaults where did you hear this?
I asked Helene Bergeot this on twitter and she confirmed random Adavanced level stores received the premium Helvault. I went to two prereleases, one had foil tokens etc, one had plain
I asked Helene Bergeot this on twitter and she confirmed random Adavanced level stores received the premium Helvault. I went to two prereleases, one had foil tokens etc, one had plain
Ahh ok. I'm pretty sure my LGS is just Core so guess zero chance of awesomeness for me. Oh well. How do you find out if your LGS is Core or Advanced? I'm pretty sure ours is just core.
Good way to stop wizards giving out more free stuff. I wish people would would stop acting so entitled and look at the bigger picture - if wizards continue running great promotions like this everyone will benefit from them, not necessarily today or tomorrow but at some point in future.
The free stuff, is a gimmick to get us to come to an event and spend more money.
People act like they are giving out free stuff out of the goodness of their hearts(dispite the fact the fact that they have been cutting promo's left and right)
Most people rather get rewards for being a good customer and involved in the community rather than choosing the right store for a per-release
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Advanced stores can comfortably hold 4 events or more with their product and/or are able to support more than 2 boosters a player prize support (with the latest set).
The ones around my area can do BOTH @_@. (They hold 4+ events and support what seems a minimum 4 booster per player prize pool @_@)
Some of my prerelease events I go to seem like they are a step above advanced. ><
I was expecting the cardboard Helvault to contain more booster packs, but what it actually contained were twenty-sided dice with Avacyn's symbol in place of the number 20, angel and demon token cards, and oversized versions of Avacyn, Bruna, Gisela, Sigarda, and Griselbrand. I was immensely disappointed by that, as I had been very much hoping to obtain Gisela and Sigarda from booster packs there (when the players at the store where I attended the pre-release were opening our booster packs, a player obtained Sigarda, but would not trade her), but the oversized versions are useless to me. Why would WotC do something such as that? Are not oversized cards more expensive to print than normal-sized cards?
That certainly did not detract from my overall enjoyment of the event, but I do wish that WotC had placed more valuable and more useful cards in the Helvault, and if they have a similar promotion in the future, they shall give out better prizes.
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damn you wizards. All this free stuff you gave me is terrible. And damn you for giving others free stuff. What kind of company are you? I mean giving out FREE STUFF - how dumb is that idea?
Good way to stop wizards giving out more free stuff. I wish people would would stop acting so entitled and look at the bigger picture - if wizards continue running great promotions like this everyone will benefit from them, not necessarily today or tomorrow but at some point in future.
I'm going to quote something someone else said in another thread:
The Helvault was not a "bonus;" it was a promise sold to players as part of the prerelease. I, for one, was on the fence as to whether I would even go, but the promise of Helvault goodies pushed me over the line, as it did for many others.
Consider this scenario. Your parents task you and your sibling each with a job to complete. If done well, you are each promised an awesome reward. You both accomplish your tasks equally well. Your parents hand you a candy bar as your "awesome prize." Your sibling, OTOH, is handed a $100 bill. How would this make you feel?
and oversized versions of Avacyn, Bruna, Gisela, Sigarda, and Griselbrand. I was immensely disappointed by that, as I had been very much hoping to obtain Gisela and Sigarda from booster packs there ... but the oversized versions are useless to me. Why would WotC do something such as that? Are not oversized cards more expensive to print than normal-sized cards?
They don't give out Mythics as promos any more. The Over-Sized of course doesn't count. They are useful for the popular Commander format.
To be frank that quote and explanation is a joke. Comparing the helavaults rewards to payment given for a task completed is just strictly wrong. Everyone seems to be saying that they wouldn't have gone if they'd known the contents were so bad or that they were on the fence about going - the helavault wasn't for you, it wasn't designed to make more people go, it was designed so that the people that do go have a better time. It was a customer reward for the loyal customers as a thank you, not a freerole to whichever freerollers can be bothered to get out of bed.
If it wasn't designed to make people go why did they advertise it?
Of course it is a customer reward, you paid to get it's contents.
Wizards is a company, not your grandma giving away cookies.
the helavault wasn't for you, it wasn't designed to make more people go, it was designed so that the people that do go have a better time. It was a customer reward for the loyal customers as a thank you, not a freerole to whichever freerollers can be bothered to get out of bed.
Uh, no. It was designed specifically as a marketing tool to bring more customers for the prerelease event, and in that it was successful. Unfortunately, not only did they not follow through with with their promises by filling the vaults with junk (was putting a promo that people can actually put in a deck too much?), but some advanced stores just randomly get 5 grand worth of stuff to hand out to the players just for choosing the right store.
How is that a reward for loyalty? Because I chose to support a smaller LGS (which ended up with 60+ players, they had to split it into two flights to keep the rounds down), I get no shot at the better rewards?
When I read the spoiler about the Hellvault contents, it was at about the lowest point of what I had expected. Nothing close to what would make me say "wow", but I wasn't really expecting much.
I decided to wait though, and see how my wife reacted to them; she's a relatively new player compared to my years of obsession experience. She thought the giant angles were kind of cool, though didn't understand what you would use them for, didn't care much about the tokens, but absolutely loves the dice.
You paid to enter the prerelease. The Helvault did not replace other prizes.
It definitely added a new level of excitement and fun to the prerelease
No, he paid to enter a tournament with a helvault prize. The fact that previous tournaments did or did not have additional prizes does not factor into this decision. And the fact that this string of tournaments had unequal prize distribution, and there is no way of knowing which tournament had that prize distribution is the reason people were upset.
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It was a customer reward for the loyal customers as a thank you
What? How could this possibly be the case when the Helvault was available to anyone who signed up, whether they've been playing since Alpha or since that morning? The only tangible connection the promotion has to loyalty is in requiring you to show up after paying the preregistration fee.
This was not a customer reward in any way, shape, or form.
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No, he paid to enter a tournament with a helvault prize. The fact that previous tournaments did or did not have additional prizes does not factor into this decision. And the fact that this string of tournaments had unequal prize distribution, and there is no way of knowing which tournament had that prize distribution is the reason people were upset.
All tournaments have unequal prize distribution. Because most prizes are booster packs. I got 3rd at my local shop at pulled nothing of value from any of my packs. Another player didn't even break top 8 and pulled a Tamiyo from his only pack.
Even prizes with set pools seem to have random assignments. When I staffed Anime Expo back in 2010, Wizards gave us full-art Mutavaults for top 4 (in addition to other swag). In 2011 we got foil Kor Skyfishers...zzz...
But I see how that's completely different since its two different tournaments during two different years...
But the point still stands: Wizards tends to just ship out whatever extras they have on hand for events like this...they aren't putting *too* much mental energy on this. Otherwise we probably would have seen something like alt art Halo Hunters...(Why isn't he in this set?)
Otherwise we probably would have seen something like alt art Halo Hunters...(Why isn't he in this set?)
I think the biggest reason most people are annoyed is that they didn't even at least do that. They've basically given $100 cards to some people, and everyone else got nothing of use, not even a crappy promo card to put into their binder. You either mised out and went to a lucky advanced store and walked away with a sweet judge foil and some first-ever foil tokens, or you got a box of absolute junk. There was no inbetween, and no way of knowing that you could have attended a different store to get better stuff. That's why most people are peeved about it.
Your baseball analogy from the other thread sums it up pretty well. It's like the League advertising that every person that goes to a game this weekend gets a cool prize, and when everyone shows up it's a flimsy piece of cardboard that says "I <3 Baseball" on it; only to find out that in the next stadium over, everyone got an engraved "I <3 Baseball" plaque and a signed baseball bat. Funnily enough, people will feel ripped off in a situation like that, especially those that went out of their way to attend a game they wouldn't usually go to because of the marketing ploy.
The part that bothers me the most about this is that the prize support was stacked against smaller stores. You can be unlucky and not get anything and that is crappy, but life. But getting set up to lose makes small town players feel unappreciated in their hobby.
What is next? Are they going to start supplying high-grossing top tier stores with special booster boxes that have more foils? Laugh at the ridiculousness of that statement, but this is a baby step in that direction.
WotC has been doing a lot of stuff wrong lately. They want our honest feedback, give it to them. You guys berating people for being upset and disappointed are the ones being petty. People are allowed to feel however they want to about a promotion and provide whatever feedback they want. They feel it was a bad promo? They are entitled to feel that way. You think it was a great promo and WotC should do more like it? You are entitled to feel that way too. And both of you are more than welcome to provide feedback here and to WotC about it. But stop trying to tell people how they should feel and insulting them, it is childish and I am shocked this slapfight has been allowed to continue.
By the way, I went to a PR at an Advanced WPN store.
sanddunesurfer asked: reddit is abuzz with the stories of shops that got judge promos on top of the regular helvault contents. I can't help but have a negative reaction (obv just cuz I wish I had gotten a $100 promo just for competing). Not that I didn't have fun. But now my fun seems less. Any idea of marketing's logic behind the decision to do this?
We didn’t have the resources to put that stuff in every Helvault so we thought it would be fun to have it randomly in some Helvaults. Magic is all about variance in what you open so it felt like it would be a cool way to spice things up.
I’ve gotten plenty of feedback of players upset that some people got stuff they didn’t. How do you all feel? Would you rather have some people randomly get different stuff or have everyone get the same stuff meaning no one gets the extra goodies?" this is what maro said on his tumblr page. I felt like I didn't get my money's worth since I had to pay 5 bucks more for the prerelease and didn't have a premimum helvault. There are full foil helvaults I don't know why they couldn't have distributed the foils so at least each helvault got something . Instead of the few getting all foil stuff. Idk what hessaying about variance because this supposedly only was availble to advance stores and stores below just got the regular helvault least with the zendikar thing it was completely random and not based on a stores status.
the funny thing is i dont think advance store matters or not.
the store that has been support wotc for as long as i can remember.. didnt get the good helvault(this store has been opened at the very least since i was 9ish and im now 24.)
and the store that most real magic players in my area despise thats been around for maybe 1-2 years, got the good 1.
the funny thing is i dont think advance store matters or not.
the store that has been support wotc for as long as i can remember.. didnt get the good helvault(this store has been opened at the very least since i was 9ish and im now 24.)
and the store that most real magic players in my area despise thats been around for maybe 1-2 years, got the good 1.
I wouldn't be as disappointed that some stores got premium Helvaults if the basic Helvault had actually had something useful in it. If the basic Helvault had something like foil Restoration Angels or foil Angel of Jubilations and the Premium Helvault had Judge Promo cards I mean yeah it's a kick in the pants someone else is getting $100 cards for free and you're not, but at least you'd be getting something theoretically useable and able to be traded.
Instead the basic Helvault had complete jank. Even the dice, which I was originally happy about, feels like it's made out of cheap plastic compared to the other Spindowns that come in Fat Packs that feel weighty and solid. I'm a little afraid if I tried to roll my Helvault die it would fracture. All-in-all I am absurdly disappointed. I've already Slice and Dice'd my oversized Blossom into a pseudo-full-art card for an EDH deck. It's sad that I had to actively improve upon the prizes they gave us to make them useful. Wizards: I am disappoint.
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Ours was kinda small, and our TO got 2 Helvaults. I asked if he was going to do another tourney and crack the second. He said "no i'll probably sell it on ebay because they go for $200. Or I'll open it later and sell everything". I thought that was pretty ****ty. Everyone ther could have easily gotten 3-4 oversized promos -.-
Isn't that against Wizards policy? I'm pretty sure selling left over promotional materials is the kind of stuff that gets a store seriously banned from everything sanctioned. It's disgusting to me that anyone even thinks in these terms.
Where was this communicated I don't remember hearing that only certain levels of stores could get the good helvaults where did you hear this?
I asked Helene Bergeot this on twitter and she confirmed random Adavanced level stores received the premium Helvault. I went to two prereleases, one had foil tokens etc, one had plain
Ahh ok. I'm pretty sure my LGS is just Core so guess zero chance of awesomeness for me. Oh well. How do you find out if your LGS is Core or Advanced? I'm pretty sure ours is just core.
1. Because they market it as the helvualt having awsome things, not some helvualt having awesome things
2. By making some helvualts lame it allows shady store owners to take all the good cards and pretended like they got a good one.
3. If they do future things like this the randomness will encourage store owners to peek and see if they got a good one to keep/drum up attendance.
The free stuff, is a gimmick to get us to come to an event and spend more money.
People act like they are giving out free stuff out of the goodness of their hearts(dispite the fact the fact that they have been cutting promo's left and right)
Most people rather get rewards for being a good customer and involved in the community rather than choosing the right store for a per-release
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
The ones around my area can do BOTH @_@. (They hold 4+ events and support what seems a minimum 4 booster per player prize pool @_@)
Some of my prerelease events I go to seem like they are a step above advanced. ><
That certainly did not detract from my overall enjoyment of the event, but I do wish that WotC had placed more valuable and more useful cards in the Helvault, and if they have a similar promotion in the future, they shall give out better prizes.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
i can't do the same thing here. maximum of prereleases is 2 and it takes two whole days.
And your point is?
I'm going to quote something someone else said in another thread:
They don't give out Mythics as promos any more. The Over-Sized of course doesn't count. They are useful for the popular Commander format.
If it wasn't designed to make people go why did they advertise it?
Of course it is a customer reward, you paid to get it's contents.
Wizards is a company, not your grandma giving away cookies.
You paid to enter the prerelease. The Helvault did not replace other prizes.
It definitely added a new level of excitement and fun to the prerelease
Uh, no. It was designed specifically as a marketing tool to bring more customers for the prerelease event, and in that it was successful. Unfortunately, not only did they not follow through with with their promises by filling the vaults with junk (was putting a promo that people can actually put in a deck too much?), but some advanced stores just randomly get 5 grand worth of stuff to hand out to the players just for choosing the right store.
How is that a reward for loyalty? Because I chose to support a smaller LGS (which ended up with 60+ players, they had to split it into two flights to keep the rounds down), I get no shot at the better rewards?
I decided to wait though, and see how my wife reacted to them; she's a relatively new player compared to my years of
obsessionexperience. She thought the giant angles were kind of cool, though didn't understand what you would use them for, didn't care much about the tokens, but absolutely loves the dice.No, he paid to enter a tournament with a helvault prize. The fact that previous tournaments did or did not have additional prizes does not factor into this decision. And the fact that this string of tournaments had unequal prize distribution, and there is no way of knowing which tournament had that prize distribution is the reason people were upset.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
This was not a customer reward in any way, shape, or form.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
All tournaments have unequal prize distribution. Because most prizes are booster packs. I got 3rd at my local shop at pulled nothing of value from any of my packs. Another player didn't even break top 8 and pulled a Tamiyo from his only pack.
Even prizes with set pools seem to have random assignments. When I staffed Anime Expo back in 2010, Wizards gave us full-art Mutavaults for top 4 (in addition to other swag). In 2011 we got foil Kor Skyfishers...zzz...
But I see how that's completely different since its two different tournaments during two different years...
But the point still stands: Wizards tends to just ship out whatever extras they have on hand for events like this...they aren't putting *too* much mental energy on this. Otherwise we probably would have seen something like alt art Halo Hunters...(Why isn't he in this set?)
Custom Set: Pokemon: Generation 1
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I think the biggest reason most people are annoyed is that they didn't even at least do that. They've basically given $100 cards to some people, and everyone else got nothing of use, not even a crappy promo card to put into their binder. You either mised out and went to a lucky advanced store and walked away with a sweet judge foil and some first-ever foil tokens, or you got a box of absolute junk. There was no inbetween, and no way of knowing that you could have attended a different store to get better stuff. That's why most people are peeved about it.
Your baseball analogy from the other thread sums it up pretty well. It's like the League advertising that every person that goes to a game this weekend gets a cool prize, and when everyone shows up it's a flimsy piece of cardboard that says "I <3 Baseball" on it; only to find out that in the next stadium over, everyone got an engraved "I <3 Baseball" plaque and a signed baseball bat. Funnily enough, people will feel ripped off in a situation like that, especially those that went out of their way to attend a game they wouldn't usually go to because of the marketing ploy.
What is next? Are they going to start supplying high-grossing top tier stores with special booster boxes that have more foils? Laugh at the ridiculousness of that statement, but this is a baby step in that direction.
WotC has been doing a lot of stuff wrong lately. They want our honest feedback, give it to them. You guys berating people for being upset and disappointed are the ones being petty. People are allowed to feel however they want to about a promotion and provide whatever feedback they want. They feel it was a bad promo? They are entitled to feel that way. You think it was a great promo and WotC should do more like it? You are entitled to feel that way too. And both of you are more than welcome to provide feedback here and to WotC about it. But stop trying to tell people how they should feel and insulting them, it is childish and I am shocked this slapfight has been allowed to continue.
By the way, I went to a PR at an Advanced WPN store.
We didn’t have the resources to put that stuff in every Helvault so we thought it would be fun to have it randomly in some Helvaults. Magic is all about variance in what you open so it felt like it would be a cool way to spice things up.
I’ve gotten plenty of feedback of players upset that some people got stuff they didn’t. How do you all feel? Would you rather have some people randomly get different stuff or have everyone get the same stuff meaning no one gets the extra goodies?" this is what maro said on his tumblr page. I felt like I didn't get my money's worth since I had to pay 5 bucks more for the prerelease and didn't have a premimum helvault. There are full foil helvaults I don't know why they couldn't have distributed the foils so at least each helvault got something . Instead of the few getting all foil stuff. Idk what hessaying about variance because this supposedly only was availble to advance stores and stores below just got the regular helvault least with the zendikar thing it was completely random and not based on a stores status.
Custom Set: Pokemon: Generation 1
My mind numbing DC-10 stack!
Wow, this stinks! Way to screw-up wizards.
the store that has been support wotc for as long as i can remember.. didnt get the good helvault(this store has been opened at the very least since i was 9ish and im now 24.)
and the store that most real magic players in my area despise thats been around for maybe 1-2 years, got the good 1.
http://www.wizards.com/WPN/WhyJoin.aspx#Levels doesn't matter how old ur store is relatively. But how many events you hold etc. determine if your gateway core or an advance store.
Instead the basic Helvault had complete jank. Even the dice, which I was originally happy about, feels like it's made out of cheap plastic compared to the other Spindowns that come in Fat Packs that feel weighty and solid. I'm a little afraid if I tried to roll my Helvault die it would fracture. All-in-all I am absurdly disappointed. I've already Slice and Dice'd my oversized Blossom into a pseudo-full-art card for an EDH deck. It's sad that I had to actively improve upon the prizes they gave us to make them useful. Wizards: I am disappoint.