It's a shame this isn't the place for such things, I've already dreamt up a r/b (not hybrid, it'd be a bit too pietastic then) Tibalt that wouldn't suck.
So, now that the deck lists for this set have been confirmed, I have mixed feelings about this set. While it is not as exciting as some sets in this series have been, it thankfully is not as major a disappointment as was Venser versus Koth.
I shall purchase several individual cards for their new artwork, including mortify, death grasp, and blightning. I do find it to be regrettable that the original artwork and flavor text of death grasp were not preserved, as they depicted and referenced the most epic storyline in M:tG, but the new artwork was also very impressive. I agree with an earlier user that if the promo artwork for lingering souls was used for this set, than the promo artwork for hellspark elemental should have been used, as well.
I also am disappointed that there are so few multicolroed cards in each deck of this set, especially considering that one of the two planeswalkers in it is multicolored, himself. It also would have been great if unmake had featured new artwork, as well, since it has had only one normal printing (not including the textless player rewards version), and I have four copies in a deck of mine, two with each artwork, so having another new artwork would add greater diversity to my deck's artwork.
Also, why does Sorin's deck have evolving wilds? That card seems to be rather out-of-place in a deck that does not seem to care very much about lands, especially considering that Tibalt's deck does not have it. I believe that it would have been better to have Orzhov Basilica to balance Tibalt's Rakdos Carnarium, in place of evolving wilds, and that tainted peak would have been better instead of Akoum Refuge, to balance Sorin's tainted field. Does anyone else here agree with that?
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I also was disappointed that Sorin wasn't incorporated into Death's Grasp or at least the flavor quote. However, Tibalt's new ones are really great, and I'm looking forward to a red/black Tibalt in the future.
I think the decision not to use Sorin in the art for Death's Grasp is to distinguish it from Sorin's Vengeance, a card with a similar mechanical identity which would likely have had a much closer creative feel as well if it was given Sorin art and flavor text. Of course, this begs the question of whether it is a waste to use alternate art on a card that you feel should not feature the planeswalker. Given the end result (that is, my favorite art in this Duel Decks), I personally would say no. But it is a legitimate complaint that none of Sorin's alt arts feature him.
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
I see people complaining that Sorin isn't in any of his decks art. When did they spoil all the art for both decks? I know they spoiled a few in the article but if you hover over say, Blightning in the composed decklist it will still show the old art. Basically what I'm getting at is the art we've seen is the art they wanted to show us, who knows how much new art we're getting? The set isn't coming out until the 15th anyway.
I see people complaining that Sorin isn't in any of his decks art. When did they spoil all the art for both decks? I know they spoiled a few in the article but if you hover over say, Blightning in the composed decklist it will still show the old art. Basically what I'm getting at is the art we've seen is the art they wanted to show us, who knows how much new art we're getting? The set isn't coming out until the 15th anyway.
Actually, they do show all of the alt-arts in the article (heck, for Blightning there's a picture of the card itself and a larger pic of the art).
For Ajani vs Nicol Bolas : 6 alt art card
For Venser vs Koth : 7 alt art card
For Izzet vs Golgari : 12 alt art card
For Sorin vs Tibalt : 7 alt art card ???
Why IvG have so many alt artwork? 2 of them are split card so total 14 new artwork been seen in IvG. I thought the number of alternate artwork card is fixed?
I also am disappointed that there are so few multicolroed cards in each deck of this set, especially considering that one of the two planeswalkers in it is multicolored, himself. It also would have been great if unmake had featured new artwork, as well, since it has had only one normal printing (not including the textless player rewards version), and I have four copies in a deck of mine, two with each artwork, so having another new artwork would add greater diversity to my deck's artwork.
Also, why does Sorin's deck have evolving wilds? That card seems to be rather out-of-place in a deck that does not seem to care very much about lands, especially considering that Tibalt's deck does not have it. I believe that it would have been better to have Orzhov Basilica to balance Tibalt's Rakdos Carnarium, in place of evolving wilds, and that tainted peak would have been better instead of Akoum Refuge, to balance Sorin's tainted field. Does anyone else here agree with that?
Well alot of the time the duel decks even though multi-colored like venser or ajani or bolas have more mono colored cards in. Maybe wizards think its easyer for newbies. Also maybe the flavor or power dont really fit in with the overall theme of the planeswalker.
In terms of lanes sorins deck does care alot about color alot of the cards have 2 color casting in them like vampire nighthawk or fiend hunter. There is still a focus on black however the majority of cards require more black than white so thats most likely why tainted fields got put in since keeping a swamp and it means you have access to all the colors you need. Same goes for tibalt his deck has very little of black in it so tainted peak would of been a waste. Sure I would of prefered to maybe have seen a vivid marsh or a vivid peak in these decks but its not a trainwreck.
Im happy wizards sees tibalt as more black than red.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Why not have Sorin standing around 3 dead vampires wearing his uniforms, the art depicts him summoning their spirits. The flavor text could be:
"Rise and serve your master once more, tell me who has been foolish enough to slay my house servants."
Or something of the like.
That would definitely be very awesome, in my mind.
Also, while it is good to have another printing of vampire nighthawk, to keep its availability high and its price low, I do wish that this printing used the promo artwork, since I prefer that artwork over the normal artwork, and the promo version is now difficult to obtain and, thus, expensive.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I was under the impression that they were used to "promote" certain things.
Also these decks are some value. 2 5$ uncommons, a 10$ standard rare... 20$ standard mythic... a 7$ starter rare... plus there's more cards that you get to actually play with for entertainment value?
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DCI MAGIC RULES ADVISOR
(not really an accomplishment, but I've seen other people here with it in their sig)
After reading the decklists for these decks a second time, I realize that Tibalt's decks does not include any cards with the madness mechanic; why is that? It does include cards with flashback, which do negate the drawback of his first ability, but madness would have been absolutely perfect to use with his first ability, so the lack of any cards with that mechanic seems to be a major oversight/design flaw to me. What does everyone else say about that?
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
After reading the decklists for these decks a second time, I realize that Tibalt's decks does not include any cards with the madness mechanic; why is that? It does include cards with flashback, which do negate the drawback of his first ability, but madness would have been absolutely perfect to use with his first ability, so the lack of any cards with that mechanic seems to be a major oversight/design flaw to me. What does everyone else say about that?
You are 1000% right. I would have wanted a reckless wurm.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
After reading the decklists for these decks a second time, I realize that Tibalt's decks does not include any cards with the madness mechanic; why is that? It does include cards with flashback, which do negate the drawback of his first ability, but madness would have been absolutely perfect to use with his first ability, so the lack of any cards with that mechanic seems to be a major oversight/design flaw to me. What does everyone else say about that?
because as is, madness would only be of any value in combination with Tibalt. stuff like Fiery Temper, Grave Scrabbler, and Psychotic Haze are all fine and dandy with Tibalt on the field, but in the games in which you don't draw him (statistically the majority, seeing as he's a one-of in 60 cards), they are pretty underwhelming. they probably wanted to focus on including more cards that were worth drawing on their own that also happen to play well with Tibalt rather than force the deck to work with the madness mechanic.
Edit: on second glance, i realized i overlooked Mad Prophet and Faithless Looting, but that's still 3 cards in 60 that synergize with madness. still not the best odds. i imagine they initially tested a deck with madness cards but came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth the effort of bending the deck in that direction as opposed to simply making a flavorful deck that could be aggressive/resilient enough to win against Sorin.
simply making a flavorful deck that could be aggressive/resilient enough to win against Sorin.
I still feel that's severely debatable. There are a few cards, but if you showed me this deck without any context of who Tibalt is "torture and pain" aren't the conclusion I would reach.
I still feel that's severely debatable. There are a few cards, but if you showed me this deck without any context of who Tibalt is "torture and pain" aren't the conclusion I would reach.
while i tend to agree with you, if you read Trick Jarrett's feature article on the mothership about the decks, they seem to think they did a fantastic job.
: /
I still feel that's severely debatable. There are a few cards, but if you showed me this deck without any context of who Tibalt is "torture and pain" aren't the conclusion I would reach.
Blightning is probably the major key that highlight suffering and pain. Sure not all the cards are going to give off the feeling but Tibalts deck has alot more flavour to it than sorins spirit/human/vampire deck.
while i tend to agree with you, if you read Trick Jarrett's feature article on the mothership about the decks, they seem to think they did a fantastic job.
: /
O.o but they did do a fantastic job. Good cards both in terms of money and casual play. Not sure how the decks play against each other but that only matters for like a day to me. Sure they could of changed a few cards but that is always the case with what ever duel deck they doing. The saying dont look a gifted horse in the mouth seems very suitable for this.
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
After reading the decklists for these decks a second time, I realize that Tibalt's decks does not include any cards with the madness mechanic; why is that? It does include cards with flashback, which do negate the drawback of his first ability, but madness would have been absolutely perfect to use with his first ability, so the lack of any cards with that mechanic seems to be a major oversight/design flaw to me. What does everyone else say about that?
It wouldn't be Wizard's job if they did a RB Madness deck WITH Madness. It's like Venser's deck all over again: A lot of ETB blink triggers, that triggers more ETB blink triggers instead of triggers that could be helpful, and the deck doesn't have ANY Soul Sisters or any card that could be blinked in early game for value.
Edit: By the way, I don't even know how to describe how Venser's deck play, since I was interested on buying it before seeing the lists. But, really, if the game was a contest to see ETB blink triggers, this deck would be Tier 1. But I can't describe it. Is it a tap-out control thing (with big costed counterspells)? Is it midrange?
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(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Nothing. All I want is Heroes vs. Monsters spoilers.
After reading the decklists for these decks a second time, I realize that Tibalt's decks does not include any cards with the madness mechanic; why is that? It does include cards with flashback, which do negate the drawback of his first ability, but madness would have been absolutely perfect to use with his first ability, so the lack of any cards with that mechanic seems to be a major oversight/design flaw to me. What does everyone else say about that?
I personally would have put Fiery Temper and Library of Leng in Tibalt's deck if I had designed it. Both seem like a good fit.
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"If you ever write anything like that again...don't sign it." -Mark Lowry
Currently playing: Modern: RDW, developing B/G Infect G/W Midrange EDH: Working on Momir Vig and five color Cromat
Blightning is probably the major key that highlight suffering and pain. Sure not all the cards are going to give off the feeling but Tibalts deck has alot more flavour to it than sorins spirit/human/vampire deck.
Browbeat could vaguely be made into a torture card, but it wasn't (seriously what IS that doing?), Breaking Point practically SCREAMED to have new art featuring Tibalt but they didn't, Sulfuric Vortex and Lavaborn Muse have nothing to do with torture, and Skirsdag Cultist isn't even the right thing for Tibalt since he was a skabaren and not a Griselbrand worshiper.
Terminate could have used new art too, though I understand why they didn't.
I just realized that WotC missed a golden opportunity to put Rackling in Tibalt's deck instead of, or along with, Lavaborn Muse. A creature version of a classic torture device isn't merely right up Tibalt's alley, it practically is Tibalt's alley.
I just realized that WotC missed a golden opportunity to put Rackling in Tibalt's deck instead of, or along with, Lavaborn Muse. A creature version of a classic torture device isn't merely right up Tibalt's alley, it practically is Tibalt's alley.
I guess we could point out certainly 300 cards that they could be on decks. Specially Tibalt's. But I won't lie to you: I loved Sorin's list. It might not have them big bombs as Path to Exile (that turned out as a card that the drawback was far more powerful for Koth than modern decks), Isochron Scepter, but, the list is so well made, that I liked it at the point that I'll try to forget the mistakes. I don't want to shut the haters, far from it: I still wanted two Lingering Souls instead of one in Sorin's, but, I think they should make less reprint mistakes on expert sets. Everyone would absolutely LOVE Lightning Helix, Coiling Oracle, Culling Sun etcetera.
I once heard that Mirrodin Pure vs. New Phyrexia was designed by players, and I'm sure they could put some more effort on that and make players design more often, even if, for starters, be at MTGO.
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(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Nothing. All I want is Heroes vs. Monsters spoilers.
I just realized that WotC missed a golden opportunity to put Rackling in Tibalt's deck instead of, or along with, Lavaborn Muse. A creature version of a classic torture device isn't merely right up Tibalt's alley, it practically is Tibalt's alley.
Personally I threw a Stuffy Doll into my Tibalt deck.
I can't believe they missed the chance to put a The Rack into Tibalt. It annoys me that there was only one printing of the DotP art. Next to impossible to find.
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It's a shame this isn't the place for such things, I've already dreamt up a r/b (not hybrid, it'd be a bit too pietastic then) Tibalt that wouldn't suck.
I shall purchase several individual cards for their new artwork, including mortify, death grasp, and blightning. I do find it to be regrettable that the original artwork and flavor text of death grasp were not preserved, as they depicted and referenced the most epic storyline in M:tG, but the new artwork was also very impressive. I agree with an earlier user that if the promo artwork for lingering souls was used for this set, than the promo artwork for hellspark elemental should have been used, as well.
I also am disappointed that there are so few multicolroed cards in each deck of this set, especially considering that one of the two planeswalkers in it is multicolored, himself. It also would have been great if unmake had featured new artwork, as well, since it has had only one normal printing (not including the textless player rewards version), and I have four copies in a deck of mine, two with each artwork, so having another new artwork would add greater diversity to my deck's artwork.
Also, why does Sorin's deck have evolving wilds? That card seems to be rather out-of-place in a deck that does not seem to care very much about lands, especially considering that Tibalt's deck does not have it. I believe that it would have been better to have Orzhov Basilica to balance Tibalt's Rakdos Carnarium, in place of evolving wilds, and that tainted peak would have been better instead of Akoum Refuge, to balance Sorin's tainted field. Does anyone else here agree with that?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
I think the decision not to use Sorin in the art for Death's Grasp is to distinguish it from Sorin's Vengeance, a card with a similar mechanical identity which would likely have had a much closer creative feel as well if it was given Sorin art and flavor text. Of course, this begs the question of whether it is a waste to use alternate art on a card that you feel should not feature the planeswalker. Given the end result (that is, my favorite art in this Duel Decks), I personally would say no. But it is a legitimate complaint that none of Sorin's alt arts feature him.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Actually, they do show all of the alt-arts in the article (heck, for Blightning there's a picture of the card itself and a larger pic of the art).
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/237b
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
For Venser vs Koth : 7 alt art card
For Izzet vs Golgari : 12 alt art card
For Sorin vs Tibalt : 7 alt art card ???
Why IvG have so many alt artwork? 2 of them are split card so total 14 new artwork been seen in IvG. I thought the number of alternate artwork card is fixed?
Well alot of the time the duel decks even though multi-colored like venser or ajani or bolas have more mono colored cards in. Maybe wizards think its easyer for newbies. Also maybe the flavor or power dont really fit in with the overall theme of the planeswalker.
In terms of lanes sorins deck does care alot about color alot of the cards have 2 color casting in them like vampire nighthawk or fiend hunter. There is still a focus on black however the majority of cards require more black than white so thats most likely why tainted fields got put in since keeping a swamp and it means you have access to all the colors you need. Same goes for tibalt his deck has very little of black in it so tainted peak would of been a waste. Sure I would of prefered to maybe have seen a vivid marsh or a vivid peak in these decks but its not a trainwreck.
Im happy wizards sees tibalt as more black than red.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
Why not have Sorin standing around 3 dead vampires wearing his uniforms, the art depicts him summoning their spirits. The flavor text could be:
"Rise and serve your master once more, tell me who has been foolish enough to slay my house servants."
Or something of the like.
That would definitely be very awesome, in my mind.
Also, while it is good to have another printing of vampire nighthawk, to keep its availability high and its price low, I do wish that this printing used the promo artwork, since I prefer that artwork over the normal artwork, and the promo version is now difficult to obtain and, thus, expensive.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
That's rather the point of promos, no?
Lingering Souls uses the promo artwork.
I was under the impression that they were used to "promote" certain things.
Also these decks are some value. 2 5$ uncommons, a 10$ standard rare... 20$ standard mythic... a 7$ starter rare... plus there's more cards that you get to actually play with for entertainment value?
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
You are 1000% right. I would have wanted a reckless wurm.
Feel free to tell me yours!
because as is, madness would only be of any value in combination with Tibalt. stuff like Fiery Temper, Grave Scrabbler, and Psychotic Haze are all fine and dandy with Tibalt on the field, but in the games in which you don't draw him (statistically the majority, seeing as he's a one-of in 60 cards), they are pretty underwhelming. they probably wanted to focus on including more cards that were worth drawing on their own that also happen to play well with Tibalt rather than force the deck to work with the madness mechanic.
Edit: on second glance, i realized i overlooked Mad Prophet and Faithless Looting, but that's still 3 cards in 60 that synergize with madness. still not the best odds. i imagine they initially tested a deck with madness cards but came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth the effort of bending the deck in that direction as opposed to simply making a flavorful deck that could be aggressive/resilient enough to win against Sorin.
I still feel that's severely debatable. There are a few cards, but if you showed me this deck without any context of who Tibalt is "torture and pain" aren't the conclusion I would reach.
while i tend to agree with you, if you read Trick Jarrett's feature article on the mothership about the decks, they seem to think they did a fantastic job.
: /
Blightning, Breaking point, browbeat, Sulfic Vortex, Terminate, Lavaborn Muse, Skirsdag Cultist, Strangling Soot, Devils play.
Blightning is probably the major key that highlight suffering and pain. Sure not all the cards are going to give off the feeling but Tibalts deck has alot more flavour to it than sorins spirit/human/vampire deck.
O.o but they did do a fantastic job. Good cards both in terms of money and casual play. Not sure how the decks play against each other but that only matters for like a day to me. Sure they could of changed a few cards but that is always the case with what ever duel deck they doing. The saying dont look a gifted horse in the mouth seems very suitable for this.
Decks used- GGarruk vs LilianaB, WElsepth vs TezzeretU, WGKnights vs DragonsR
WGRAjani vs BolasRUB, WUVenser vs KothR, RUIzzet vs GolgariGB.
WBSorin vs TibaltBR, WRHeros vs Monsters RG
Want to see other duel decks I made ? Check out my Blog ! Feel free to post advice or give topics for me to make duel decks out of. Check out the Theros Block Planeswalker Theme Duel Decks Elspeth, Xenagos, Ashok, Kiora, Ajani
"Hi folks, here is a piece of rubbish we made, we knew it was rubbish but we made it anyway just to wind you up. Suck it loyal customers"
It wouldn't be Wizard's job if they did a RB Madness deck WITH Madness. It's like Venser's deck all over again: A lot of ETB blink triggers, that triggers more ETB blink triggers instead of triggers that could be helpful, and the deck doesn't have ANY Soul Sisters or any card that could be blinked in early game for value.
Edit: By the way, I don't even know how to describe how Venser's deck play, since I was interested on buying it before seeing the lists. But, really, if the game was a contest to see ETB blink triggers, this deck would be Tier 1. But I can't describe it. Is it a tap-out control thing (with big costed counterspells)? Is it midrange?
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
I personally would have put Fiery Temper and
Library of Leng in Tibalt's deck if I had designed it. Both seem like a good fit.
Currently playing:
Modern: RDW, developing B/G Infect
G/W Midrange
EDH: Working on Momir Vig and five color Cromat
Browbeat could vaguely be made into a torture card, but it wasn't (seriously what IS that doing?), Breaking Point practically SCREAMED to have new art featuring Tibalt but they didn't, Sulfuric Vortex and Lavaborn Muse have nothing to do with torture, and Skirsdag Cultist isn't even the right thing for Tibalt since he was a skabaren and not a Griselbrand worshiper.
Terminate could have used new art too, though I understand why they didn't.
I guess we could point out certainly 300 cards that they could be on decks. Specially Tibalt's. But I won't lie to you: I loved Sorin's list. It might not have them big bombs as Path to Exile (that turned out as a card that the drawback was far more powerful for Koth than modern decks), Isochron Scepter, but, the list is so well made, that I liked it at the point that I'll try to forget the mistakes. I don't want to shut the haters, far from it: I still wanted two Lingering Souls instead of one in Sorin's, but, I think they should make less reprint mistakes on expert sets. Everyone would absolutely LOVE Lightning Helix, Coiling Oracle, Culling Sun etcetera.
I once heard that Mirrodin Pure vs. New Phyrexia was designed by players, and I'm sure they could put some more effort on that and make players design more often, even if, for starters, be at MTGO.
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Personally I threw a Stuffy Doll into my Tibalt deck.
I can't believe they missed the chance to put a The Rack into Tibalt. It annoys me that there was only one printing of the DotP art. Next to impossible to find.