However, again, this doesn't justify why shocks don't get new symbols. The mythic land is not a regular mythic, either. IE it's printed on the same sheet as the shocks and presumably the gates. IOW the shocks and the mythic only appear on the land sheet. So they don't affect the rest of the cards anyway. Saying the shocks are a part of DGM is more of a formality since they already don't mingle with other rares.
It doesn't matter if the shocks have DGM or RTR/Gatecrash symbols for the purpose of taking up slots. All these lands are taking up basic land slots which is a different sheet anyway. It's just like basic lands in any set from Alara onward, the checklists they put on the basic land sheet, the 16th purple timeshifted card, or the double faced card sheet from last block. They're a bonus. If the shocks had gotten DGM set symbols, the set would just be 10 cards bigger than it is now.
I apologize for my vague wording - I said "slots" at one point and "spots" everytime else, but what I meant each time was "spots in the set", not "slots in a booster". A small set has a limited amount of space, and DGM in particular as it has to build upon no fewer than 10 different "themes" that were spread across the past two sets (both of which were large).
As to what you said about the set "just being 10 cards bigger", its not simply that. It would be ten rares bigger. Granted, I am not certain how big of an impact that has, but remember that they are working with a small set here. Sure, there is a little bit of wiggle room in how many cards of each rarity they can put in the set, but how much of that wiggle room is allocated to rares? Not working on the inside, I can only speculate, but I imagine not a lot. And if they wanted to take advantage of that wiggle room, would they rather use it just to put the expansion symbol on a 10-card cycle of rares that are already in the block, and they they have an alternative plan for getting into the boosters, instead of using it to make new cards that flesh out the set and help give it its own identity?
It doesn't matter if the shocks have DGM or RTR/Gatecrash symbols for the purpose of taking up slots. All these lands are taking up basic land slots which is a different sheet anyway. It's just like basic lands in any set from Alara onward, the checklists they put on the basic land sheet, the 16th purple timeshifted card, or the double faced card sheet from last block. They're a bonus. If the shocks had gotten DGM set symbols, the set would just be 10 cards bigger than it is now.
Thank you- I was under the impression this was just for the DGM prerelease packs,
but the fact that the "land" slot in *every* DGM booster will be something special is actually pretty awesome!
I'm glad you pointed that out.
And here I was, wondering how well DGM would sell without Shocks
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
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Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
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The normal rares/mythics in a set have to be in numbers that fit right on the rare sheet for the 1 to 8 ratio. The shocklands aren't on the rare sheet, though. They're on a seperate sheet that's gates, shocks, and the mythic land. They could do anything they want with that and could have crammed, say, 121 extra into the set like they did with the Timeshifted sheet. Instead, they decided to load it full of guildgates and the occasional non-guild gate land.
Thank you- I was under the impression this was just for the DGM prerelease packs,
but the fact that the "land" slot in *every* DGM booster will be something special is actually pretty awesome!
I'm glad you pointed that out.
And here I was, wondering how well DGM would sell without Shocks
I wouldn't say special is the right word. There's 25 basic lands and only 10 guildgates. Even if they have new art, if you buy a box or two of Dragon's Maze, you'll have a ton of them. In 2 boxes, you'll have 72 packs with, say, 4 shocklands and maybe one of the mythic. I'm sure it'll be something for limited, though.
If it doesn't matter, then why would they have cards with different symbols than the rest? There has to be a reason they would exclude a subset of cards from the official set list.
As to what you said about the set "just being 10 cards bigger", its not simply that. It would be ten rares bigger. Granted, I am not certain how big of an impact that has, but remember that they are working with a small set here. Sure, there is a little bit of wiggle room in how many cards of each rarity they can put in the set, but how much of that wiggle room is allocated to rares? Not working on the inside, I can only speculate, but I imagine not a lot. And if they wanted to take advantage of that wiggle room, would they rather use it just to put the expansion symbol on a 10-card cycle of rares that are already in the block, and they they have an alternative plan for getting into the boosters, instead of using it to make new cards that flesh out the set and help give it its own identity?
Whether they officially admit it or not, the set does have 10 extra rares! When you buy a pack of DGM, you have a higher chance of getting 2 rares than other sets. Just because those cards are not in the set list, they end up in the packs regardless of how many cards they count as officially in the set. I repeat, the rares are not counted against the normal rares, they do not replace other rares. They are extra, bonuses.
If it doesn't matter, then why would they have cards with different symbols than the rest? There has to be a reason they would exclude a subset of cards from the official set list.
If there is a reason, I guarantee that neither you nor I know it. They may well have wanted to reprint the guildgates so that the flavor texts no longer say "The guilds of Ravnica will destroy each other." Maybe they felt like being arbitrary. Who can say?
Whether they officially admit it or not, the set does have 10 extra rares! When you buy a pack of DGM, you have a higher chance of getting 2 rares than other sets. Just because those cards are not in the set list, they end up in the packs regardless of how many cards they count as officially in the set. I repeat, the rares are not counted against the normal rares, they do not replace other rares. They are extra, bonuses.
*sigh* YES, I am well aware of the fact that they do not replace rares in boosters, as I have already said. Also, I am aware that they would not do so even if they were printed with the DGM symbol, as they would be printed on a different sheet anyway. The fact remains that they are rare cards that were printed in the last two sets. Granted, now that I think about it, it is a little odd that the Gates are given separate printings, as they, too, would be on the sheet usually used for Basics, but as I said earlier, new arts for the Gates is fun for casual and budget players who might want variance in the art of their Gates, and as somebody mentioned earlier, it would allow them to change the flavor text so that it no longer has the "The guilds of Ravnica will destroy each other" secret message (I'm guessing the new message will be "Just kidding!").
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
It would be interesting to see if it was something like having 10 gates in hand rather than in play. It's really hard to get 10 lands in the first place let alone ones that come into play tapped and are non basic without any other types.
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My love of lands knows no bounds.
Currently playing: GCasual 8-post R Casual Land Destruction UBRWG Legacy Dredge WGB Modern Melira Pod RUG EDH
I know it's unlikely but what if it turns all basic lands you control into gates in addition to their other types, as opposed to tutoring them. Like I said, highly unlikely, but would raise it to mythical status for me.
this seems unreasonable in draft, that's 11 picks(this plus 10 gates), leaving you with 32 picks(43-11). that's a lot to ask of those 32 picks, especially considering you will have to use good picks on gates just so you reach 10 of them.
a lot of cards are unreasonable for draft. ever cracked open your first pack in a Zen/WWK draft to see an Eye of Ugin staring back at you? if so, i hope you didn't try to make it work...
it should really go without saying by now that not every card is designed for every player and/or format, and crazy mythic alt-win cons are no exception.
It would be interesting to see if it was something like having 10 gates in hand rather than in play. It's really hard to get 10 lands in the first place let alone ones that come into play tapped and are non basic without any other types.
Here's a better idea: what if it let you play Gates as though they had Flash?
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
Here's a better idea: what if it let you play Gates as though they had Flash?
Gates aren't spells so that won't work. There is a reason they've never allowed someone to directly play a land on their opponents turn, the rules would be too awkward to put on a single card. Now having a tap ability that allows you to place a gate card from your hand onto the battlefield would be fine.
A mythic that just has a win condition with all 10 gates would be really boring, I hope they don't waste a mythic land opportunity on that. Worse yet if it was actually competitive games would turn into land search vs land destruction, not caring about the board at all.
Ah, it seems the "win the game" subtheme set is upon us. We already have the dragon that wins on five artifacts and the blue white dude that wins the game for no damage. Then there's the simic dude who likes his name a lot. Then there's the other blue win mechanisms in M13 (battle of wits) and Innistrad (that mad scientist dude that wins when you're milled out.)
Then there's Door to Nothingness also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this may be the largest collection of "you win" cards in standard period.
Primal Surge deck got another win condition. As for me, I love alternate wincons, really.
And more Shocklands is pretty good. They will become cheaper for a while, i think.
Dragon's Maze shocks would actually be worth less. They're as rare as a small set rare. RTR and Gatecrash shocks are as rare as a big set rare. Considering Dragon's Maze has shocks, it'll probably break Dark Ascension's record as the best selling small set, ever.
The size of the set doesnt matter, since the Shocks are not printed on the same sheet as other cards. Whether it's a small or big set, the chances of opening a shock in DGM remains constant, which is only half the rate of RTR/GTC. So if you're thinking of buying more DGM for the shocks because it's a small set, you're doing it wrong.
The size of the set doesnt matter, since the Shocks are not printed on the same sheet as other cards. Whether it's a small or big set, the chances of opening a shock in DGM remains constant, which is only half the rate of RTR/GTC. So if you're thinking of buying more DGM for the shocks because it's a small set, you're doing it wrong.
Yeah, I found that out later in the day, yesterday. Apparently, they changed the Arcana and I hadn't seen the new information when I said that.
Gates aren't spells so that won't work. There is a reason they've never allowed someone to directly play a land on their opponents turn, the rules would be too awkward to put on a single card. Now having a tap ability that allows you to place a gate card from your hand onto the battlefield would be fine.
A mythic that just has a win condition with all 10 gates would be really boring, I hope they don't waste a mythic land opportunity on that. Worse yet if it was actually competitive games would turn into land search vs land destruction, not caring about the board at all.
Ah, dangit, didn't know Flash only worked on spells. Guess it makes sense in hindsight. But basically the idea I was thinking of was that the Mythic land would allow you to play any number of gates per turn, instead of the usual "one land each turn" restricted. But what you suggested, a tap ability that allows you to place a gate from your hand to your battlefield (Walking Atlas?) would be MUCH less potentially broken.
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
If it's any good it just means Ghost Quarter will become a four of.
But it won't, what means that this won't happen.
Or, atleast, the card won't be that good at the point that gates will be the main thing in constructed formats. I'd honestly hate to see it.
And, then again, all the hate cards talk come again...
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(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Nothing. All I want is Heroes vs. Monsters spoilers.
Ah, dangit, didn't know Flash only worked on spells. Guess it makes sense in hindsight. But basically the idea I was thinking of was that the Mythic land would allow you to play any number of gates per turn, instead of the usual "one land each turn" restricted. But what you suggested, a tap ability that allows you to place a gate from your hand to your battlefield (Walking Atlas?) would be MUCH less potentially broken.
Flash does work on lands. The catch is, you can only play lands on your own turn. There's nothing stopping you from flashing in a land any time during your turn you have priority, though, if it somehow gets flash. It's just one of those "rules we don't expect you to know" things like tokens that are a copy of a nonland nontoken card, spell, or permanent having a mana cost.
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we don't know everything about the mythic's other abilities. it might have the ability to search a land or filter mana or something.
........................
Explain to me why it matters.
I apologize for my vague wording - I said "slots" at one point and "spots" everytime else, but what I meant each time was "spots in the set", not "slots in a booster". A small set has a limited amount of space, and DGM in particular as it has to build upon no fewer than 10 different "themes" that were spread across the past two sets (both of which were large).
As to what you said about the set "just being 10 cards bigger", its not simply that. It would be ten rares bigger. Granted, I am not certain how big of an impact that has, but remember that they are working with a small set here. Sure, there is a little bit of wiggle room in how many cards of each rarity they can put in the set, but how much of that wiggle room is allocated to rares? Not working on the inside, I can only speculate, but I imagine not a lot. And if they wanted to take advantage of that wiggle room, would they rather use it just to put the expansion symbol on a 10-card cycle of rares that are already in the block, and they they have an alternative plan for getting into the boosters, instead of using it to make new cards that flesh out the set and help give it its own identity?
Also, this.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Thank you- I was under the impression this was just for the DGM prerelease packs,
but the fact that the "land" slot in *every* DGM booster will be something special is actually pretty awesome!
I'm glad you pointed that out.
And here I was, wondering how well DGM would sell without Shocks
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I wouldn't say special is the right word. There's 25 basic lands and only 10 guildgates. Even if they have new art, if you buy a box or two of Dragon's Maze, you'll have a ton of them. In 2 boxes, you'll have 72 packs with, say, 4 shocklands and maybe one of the mythic. I'm sure it'll be something for limited, though.
If it doesn't matter, then why would they have cards with different symbols than the rest? There has to be a reason they would exclude a subset of cards from the official set list.
Whether they officially admit it or not, the set does have 10 extra rares! When you buy a pack of DGM, you have a higher chance of getting 2 rares than other sets. Just because those cards are not in the set list, they end up in the packs regardless of how many cards they count as officially in the set. I repeat, the rares are not counted against the normal rares, they do not replace other rares. They are extra, bonuses.
........................
Feel free to tell me yours!
If there is a reason, I guarantee that neither you nor I know it. They may well have wanted to reprint the guildgates so that the flavor texts no longer say "The guilds of Ravnica will destroy each other." Maybe they felt like being arbitrary. Who can say?
*sigh* YES, I am well aware of the fact that they do not replace rares in boosters, as I have already said. Also, I am aware that they would not do so even if they were printed with the DGM symbol, as they would be printed on a different sheet anyway. The fact remains that they are rare cards that were printed in the last two sets. Granted, now that I think about it, it is a little odd that the Gates are given separate printings, as they, too, would be on the sheet usually used for Basics, but as I said earlier, new arts for the Gates is fun for casual and budget players who might want variance in the art of their Gates, and as somebody mentioned earlier, it would allow them to change the flavor text so that it no longer has the "The guilds of Ravnica will destroy each other" secret message (I'm guessing the new message will be "Just kidding!").
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
a lot of cards are unreasonable for draft. ever cracked open your first pack in a Zen/WWK draft to see an Eye of Ugin staring back at you? if so, i hope you didn't try to make it work...
it should really go without saying by now that not every card is designed for every player and/or format, and crazy mythic alt-win cons are no exception.
it's encoded in the flavor text of the guildgates. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=476154 <--this thread discusses it more in-depth.
Here's a better idea: what if it let you play Gates as though they had Flash?
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Gates aren't spells so that won't work. There is a reason they've never allowed someone to directly play a land on their opponents turn, the rules would be too awkward to put on a single card. Now having a tap ability that allows you to place a gate card from your hand onto the battlefield would be fine.
A mythic that just has a win condition with all 10 gates would be really boring, I hope they don't waste a mythic land opportunity on that. Worse yet if it was actually competitive games would turn into land search vs land destruction, not caring about the board at all.
Then there's Door to Nothingness also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this may be the largest collection of "you win" cards in standard period.
Nearest I can think of is back in Odyssey block with the cycle of win cards that battle of wits was a part of in combination with Phage the Untouchable or Coalition Victory in bracketing sets.
Banner by Topher!
And more Shocklands is pretty good. They will become cheaper for a while, i think.
The size of the set doesnt matter, since the Shocks are not printed on the same sheet as other cards. Whether it's a small or big set, the chances of opening a shock in DGM remains constant, which is only half the rate of RTR/GTC. So if you're thinking of buying more DGM for the shocks because it's a small set, you're doing it wrong.
........................
Yeah, I found that out later in the day, yesterday. Apparently, they changed the Arcana and I hadn't seen the new information when I said that.
Ah, dangit, didn't know Flash only worked on spells. Guess it makes sense in hindsight. But basically the idea I was thinking of was that the Mythic land would allow you to play any number of gates per turn, instead of the usual "one land each turn" restricted. But what you suggested, a tap ability that allows you to place a gate from your hand to your battlefield (Walking Atlas?) would be MUCH less potentially broken.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Add to your mana pool
:5mana:, sacrifice Mythic Land; Gain control of target creature with onverted mana cost less than or equal to the number of gates you control.
Legacy Burn
NO Combo Elves
Reanimator
Trades
Burn Primer
:symg:Free Gaea's Cradle:symg:
WUR Enduring Ideal RUW
GGG Stompy Crux GGG
-- Elder Dragon Highlander --
UBU
Grimgrin, Zombie HordeUBURWR
Jor Kadeen TronRWRBRU Sedris Beatdown URB
UUU Llawan, Empress of "No" UUU
WBW Vish Kal Tron WBW
GRG Thromok Token GRG
RRR Zo-Zu, Hater of Everything RRR
But it won't, what means that this won't happen.
Or, atleast, the card won't be that good at the point that gates will be the main thing in constructed formats. I'd honestly hate to see it.
And, then again, all the hate cards talk come again...
(Give your LGS judge a hug. He deserves it.)
Flash does work on lands. The catch is, you can only play lands on your own turn. There's nothing stopping you from flashing in a land any time during your turn you have priority, though, if it somehow gets flash. It's just one of those "rules we don't expect you to know" things like tokens that are a copy of a nonland nontoken card, spell, or permanent having a mana cost.