On whether that will actually happen, I'm not sure, but I do want to see Modern Event Decks being available at big box stores. That way, card shops won't get to unilaterally decide how much they want to charge.
I think they should sell event decks at big box stores. That being said, however, I don't think a $75 event deck would be sold at such stores b/c it would be easily stolen.
With regard to the content, I think there will be 1-2 money rares (>$25) with Marsh Flats being one of them. More than that would cause the event deck to be sold for >MSRP and upset players. But, some value has to be in the deck for it to be worth MSRP.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Not intro packs usually, but thats because of the pack inside.
Most Duel Decks/Event decks end up with money cards equal to the MRSP, if not more. However, eventually those cards start to drop and it ends up the value cards in the decks equal the MSRP.
From the Vault products had cards with value greater than their MSRP. I think we can safely assume the same for these event decks. And we can probably assume stores will increase the prices of these decks accordingly.
On another note, it seems that everyone assumes that these decks must have a fetchland in them. I think that would be a bad idea. Instead, I hope Wizards just puts high value spells and deck staples in these decks and reprints fetchlands in the fall expansion. That way, the fetchland demand is realistically met and the cost of the modern event decks will not skyrocket above their MSRP.
The flip side is they could put a fethcland or 2 in and announce right then that the reprint is in the fall core set. How would people handle that?
The key here is that the have not said "Limited Print Run" which is what keeps shops charging more after the inital release. There is also only one deck. So if a store buys 6 and sells out they can just buy more. Sure expect a big run on these at first, but it will wear off. Now don't expect $200 of goodies but $100 of stuff, by prices from 6 months ago, and you will be right.
From the Vault products had cards with value greater than their MSRP. I think we can safely assume the same for these event decks. And we can probably assume stores will increase the prices of these decks accordingly.
On another note, it seems that everyone assumes that these decks must have a fetchland in them. I think that would be a bad idea. Instead, I hope Wizards just puts high value spells and deck staples in these decks and reprints fetchlands in the fall expansion. That way, the fetchland demand is realistically met and the cost of the modern event decks will not skyrocket above their MSRP.
I'd definitely prefer to see Fetid Heath and Isolated Chapel in the deck if we're getting fetches in the fall set. It will probably look something like:
@Celestial: The premise of my post is that the value cards probably won't be worth >$75. I didn't think I had to make that any clearer.
Sorry, I prolly missed that. Even so, if a product that costs $75 of which the cards inside are not worth $75, then I don't see people buying it. I mean, if the value of cards inside are equal to its MSRP, then it is the equivalent of you going to CardKingdom or TCGplayer and individually buying all of its cards, including a lot of the commons and uncommons which you may not even want.
I like how so many people on these forums assume that if they themselves won't buy a product, it means that the product will be a massive failure.
Consider this: Intro packs exist. A preconstructed deck is worth more than the sum of its cards' value for a lot of people; some aren't heavily into deck building from scratch, and like the idea of getting a ready-to-play deck out of the box. And this might come as a shock for you, but some people don't add up the dollars and cents, don't check the value of every single card in the set before they buy these boxed products. This deck will sit at the top-end of that specific target market. If you're simply looking to get your hands on modern staples for less than what they're worth, this product isn't meant for you.
There's also the upsell factor. That's where I'm at. If it sells for MSRP and contains some cards I want that are almost worth the value (say, $65 after the decrease that this product leads to), I might very well be willing to pay the extra $10 or so to get the rest of the cards, the tokens, the spindown, the box and the sleeves*. If it contains one Marsh Flats, an Elspeth, a Hero, a few Paths/Inquisitions and maybe another rare B/W dual or two, I'm already there.
*rofl as if they won't be hideously ugly as always
There's also card shops charging $150 if the cards inside are worth $150.
It really bugs me when a shop starts to raise prices like that. I OWN a game shop and I charge MSRP on all new sealed product. I see these special releases as a perk for players that love the game and it seems wrong to try and get extra $ out of something that I see as a reward.
The thing with charging the fullest extent of the value inside is that, if the Modern Event Deck actually is worth $150 in value and LGS charge that much, card shops should consider, are consumers going to want all 75 cards in there? Chances are, you already have the basic lands, and am not going to be interested in a lot of the commons and uncommons and even some of the rares, so the value of the actual cards you want inside the product would be more around $80-$100, in which case it would actually be cheaper just to buy them individually. That is why I see this product failing. Either it does not have enough value to justify the $75 MSRP, or it has too much value and card shops will simply jack up the price. Either way, I don't see this product doing well. It's a lose-lose for consumers, and Wizards won't be making that much money if this product doesn't sell.
Well then, you sir or madam are the exception to a well established economy.
I wish that WOTC has some way to enforce MSRP on sealed products, but it just does not happen with non random merch. This is not really unique to any given product line, and usually the only way people avoid this is wide availability of the bundles. I really wish WOTC would print the MSRP in giant numbers on the front of the package to make resellers look crooked.
I mean even videogame console bundles that offer strong deals for the dollar sometimes go above MSRP if they become scarce and start traveling towards being actual price. 2 years ago I remember a PS3 bundle for something like 200 bucks that came with 3 good games, and that was available for MSRP for about a day until they ran out and then you could not find them for less than the price of a console and those 3 games.
And yes this may not be a limited product in that they can reprint it, but time is also money. The faster they sell, the longer the reprints take, and the more the value of the cards fluctuate the less likely you are to see reprint sets happen or the value be there. Commander 2 was pretty vastly underprinted, got another print run, and the true name deck is still inflated past MSRP.
The thing with charging the fullest extent of the value inside is that, if the Modern Event Deck actually is worth $150 in value and LGS charge that much, card shops should consider, are consumers going to want all 75 cards in there? Chances are, you already have the basic lands, and am not going to be interested in a lot of the commons and uncommons and even some of the rares, so the value of the actual cards you want inside the product would be more around $80-$100, in which case it would actually be cheaper just to buy them individually. That is why I see this product failing. Either it does not have enough value to justify the $75 MSRP, or it has too much value and card shops will simply jack up the price. Either way, I don't see this product doing well. It's a lose-lose for consumers, and Wizards won't be making that much money if this product doesn't sell.
If the cards in the event deck have a pre-release market value of $150, they will quickly drop in value as they are being reprinted in a wide release product. Some speculators might buy them out at $75 from the stores that sell them at that price, but they will need to flip them within weeks because after 2-3 weeks, the market value of the cards will be pretty close to $75. Anyone with half a brain will know this, so you won't see speculators buying up the MSRP products, and if stores refuse to lower their price to the new market price after a couple of weeks, they will have products sitting on their shelves that they paid a pretty large amount for too (what they pay is based upon MSRP), so stores will want to move the products.
This all changes if the overall product is worth something like $300, but anything around $200 or less and the product should be an overall success, as the market will sort itself out within a couple of weeks.
I specifically asked three of the card shops in my area about whether they will sell Modern Event Decks for MSRP, and all three dodged the question.
Well, duh. Of course they did. Why would they answer that without knowing the contents? If the cards have a market value of $350, they would be stupid to sell it for MSRP.
I specifically asked three of the card shops in my area about whether they will sell Modern Event Decks for MSRP, and all three dodged the question.
Well, duh. Of course they did. Why would they answer that without knowing the contents? If the cards have a market value of $350, they would be stupid to sell it for MSRP.
Exactly, that is what I have been saying. If the value of the cards in this product exceed MSRP, the card shops will simply jack up the price and new players looking to get into Modern, the demographic that this product is targeting, will not buy this product.
I specifically asked three of the card shops in my area about whether they will sell Modern Event Decks for MSRP, and all three dodged the question.
Well, duh. Of course they did. Why would they answer that without knowing the contents? If the cards have a market value of $350, they would be stupid to sell it for MSRP.
Exactly, that is what I have been saying. If the value of the cards in this product exceed MSRP, the card shops will simply jack up the price and new players looking to get into Modern, the demographic that this product is targeting, will not buy this product.
No, it's the extent that the cards exceed MSRP is the problem. Again, if the value is under $200, the value of the cards will drop fast enough that there will be no money to be made selling at over MSRP after a 2 week period, and everyone will know that, so selling at significantly higher than the MSRP in the first two weeks is stupid. You seem to think that if the cards have a pre-release value of $200 they will have a value of $200 indefinitely, which is 100% false. However, the more it is worth overall, the more people hoard them for the purpose of reselling, and the less there are in the market total, meaning the individual card prices will drop less.
TL;DR: it's a matter of how much the market value is, not a simple is it worth more than MSRP or not.
It would be quiet charitable if were sold at the listed MSRP. If it rises to high in cost, then I might as well buy the cards separate from this product.
It would be quiet charitable if were sold at the listed MSRP. If it rises to high in cost, then I might as well buy the cards separate from this product.
- Gentlemen_Minotaur
Thank you. That was a one of the main points of what I was trying to say.
It would be quiet charitable if were sold at the listed MSRP. If it rises to high in cost, then I might as well buy the cards separate from this product.
- Gentlemen_Minotaur
Thank you. That was a one of the main points of what I was trying to say.
You are welcome.
After all it makes perfect sense from a businessman's view. Since this product is not limited, and it will most assuredly make a temporary dent on the market prices of the individual cards due to more availability of the product. Which means that hypothetically the price of the event deck should barely increase at all to maintain the most sales. If the price sky rockets to high then it make people just decide to buy the cheaper singletons than the actual product, which means that wizards of the coast and any local game store would be hurting a small amount financially. Unlike Modern Masters which is of limited quantity, this is not, means becoming more available to larger amount of consumers which means the supply and demand is not tipped to far in either direction if it were a hypothetical scale.
To sum up my point: If a local game store sold this for astronomically higher price it would be extremely foolish from a business standpoint.
While this isn't as cool as pod or something, BW tokens is fine. It has enough removal and disruption to not fold to combo and cards like Lingering Souls have been very good against zoo and affinity throughout their history, not to mention new threats like [CARD]Phyrexian Obliterator[CARD] or the snapbolt combo that has shown up recently.
Obviously there will not be four thoughtseizes, but I'd love the deck to be very similar (fewever fetches and shocks too). I think the standout card, especially in a format where pod is T1 is Aven Mindcensor. I'm excited for this and I hope I can get it at msrp.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
Hope they overvalue it, because they are available in infinite quantities on MTGO. Even if Paper players get shafted by the LGS you've still increased the supply of cards. Even if they get sold as singles the prices will go down a little for a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I specifically asked three of the card shops in my area about whether they will sell Modern Event Decks for MSRP, and all three dodged the question.
Well, duh. Of course they did. Why would they answer that without knowing the contents? If the cards have a market value of $350, they would be stupid to sell it for MSRP.
Why would they? Maybe because the contents dont change the wholesale cost that the store pays to distributors? Strping the deck for its contents only works if the decks are limited in quantity. Unlimited availabilty will lead to price equilibrium.
I think the standout card, especially in a format where pod is T1 is Aven Mindcensor.
Great observation, I second that. It's an incredibly meta-relevant card, and it desperately needs a reprint with a card frame that doesn't make my eyes itch and art that doesn't look like it should hang on the fridge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
With regard to the content, I think there will be 1-2 money rares (>$25) with Marsh Flats being one of them. More than that would cause the event deck to be sold for >MSRP and upset players. But, some value has to be in the deck for it to be worth MSRP.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
They aren't in the business of printing products that won't sell.
If they put $75 or less in cards in there, it won't sell,
and they know that.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Most Duel Decks/Event decks end up with money cards equal to the MRSP, if not more. However, eventually those cards start to drop and it ends up the value cards in the decks equal the MSRP.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
On another note, it seems that everyone assumes that these decks must have a fetchland in them. I think that would be a bad idea. Instead, I hope Wizards just puts high value spells and deck staples in these decks and reprints fetchlands in the fall expansion. That way, the fetchland demand is realistically met and the cost of the modern event decks will not skyrocket above their MSRP.
0AFFINITY0
RRED DECK WINSR
GELVESG
The key here is that the have not said "Limited Print Run" which is what keeps shops charging more after the inital release. There is also only one deck. So if a store buys 6 and sells out they can just buy more. Sure expect a big run on these at first, but it will wear off. Now don't expect $200 of goodies but $100 of stuff, by prices from 6 months ago, and you will be right.
I'd definitely prefer to see Fetid Heath and Isolated Chapel in the deck if we're getting fetches in the fall set. It will probably look something like:
1x Fetid Heath
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Windbrisk Heights
4x Orzhov guildgate
11x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures:
3x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Auriok Champion
1x Hero of Bladehold
Enchantments:
1x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue
1x Bitterblossom
3x Path to Exile
4x Raise the alarm
2x Smother
3x Zealous Persecution
Sorceries:
4x Spectral Procession
4x Lingering Souls
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalkers:
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
4x Doom Blade
3x Disenchant
2x Rootborn Defenses
3x Relic of Progenitus
Sorry, I prolly missed that. Even so, if a product that costs $75 of which the cards inside are not worth $75, then I don't see people buying it. I mean, if the value of cards inside are equal to its MSRP, then it is the equivalent of you going to CardKingdom or TCGplayer and individually buying all of its cards, including a lot of the commons and uncommons which you may not even want.
It really bugs me when a shop starts to raise prices like that. I OWN a game shop and I charge MSRP on all new sealed product. I see these special releases as a perk for players that love the game and it seems wrong to try and get extra $ out of something that I see as a reward.
I wish that WOTC has some way to enforce MSRP on sealed products, but it just does not happen with non random merch. This is not really unique to any given product line, and usually the only way people avoid this is wide availability of the bundles. I really wish WOTC would print the MSRP in giant numbers on the front of the package to make resellers look crooked.
I mean even videogame console bundles that offer strong deals for the dollar sometimes go above MSRP if they become scarce and start traveling towards being actual price. 2 years ago I remember a PS3 bundle for something like 200 bucks that came with 3 good games, and that was available for MSRP for about a day until they ran out and then you could not find them for less than the price of a console and those 3 games.
And yes this may not be a limited product in that they can reprint it, but time is also money. The faster they sell, the longer the reprints take, and the more the value of the cards fluctuate the less likely you are to see reprint sets happen or the value be there. Commander 2 was pretty vastly underprinted, got another print run, and the true name deck is still inflated past MSRP.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
If the cards in the event deck have a pre-release market value of $150, they will quickly drop in value as they are being reprinted in a wide release product. Some speculators might buy them out at $75 from the stores that sell them at that price, but they will need to flip them within weeks because after 2-3 weeks, the market value of the cards will be pretty close to $75. Anyone with half a brain will know this, so you won't see speculators buying up the MSRP products, and if stores refuse to lower their price to the new market price after a couple of weeks, they will have products sitting on their shelves that they paid a pretty large amount for too (what they pay is based upon MSRP), so stores will want to move the products.
This all changes if the overall product is worth something like $300, but anything around $200 or less and the product should be an overall success, as the market will sort itself out within a couple of weeks.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Well, duh. Of course they did. Why would they answer that without knowing the contents? If the cards have a market value of $350, they would be stupid to sell it for MSRP.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Exactly, that is what I have been saying. If the value of the cards in this product exceed MSRP, the card shops will simply jack up the price and new players looking to get into Modern, the demographic that this product is targeting, will not buy this product.
No, it's the extent that the cards exceed MSRP is the problem. Again, if the value is under $200, the value of the cards will drop fast enough that there will be no money to be made selling at over MSRP after a 2 week period, and everyone will know that, so selling at significantly higher than the MSRP in the first two weeks is stupid. You seem to think that if the cards have a pre-release value of $200 they will have a value of $200 indefinitely, which is 100% false. However, the more it is worth overall, the more people hoard them for the purpose of reselling, and the less there are in the market total, meaning the individual card prices will drop less.
TL;DR: it's a matter of how much the market value is, not a simple is it worth more than MSRP or not.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
- Gentlemen_Minotaur
Thank you. That was a one of the main points of what I was trying to say.
You are welcome.
After all it makes perfect sense from a businessman's view. Since this product is not limited, and it will most assuredly make a temporary dent on the market prices of the individual cards due to more availability of the product. Which means that hypothetically the price of the event deck should barely increase at all to maintain the most sales. If the price sky rockets to high then it make people just decide to buy the cheaper singletons than the actual product, which means that wizards of the coast and any local game store would be hurting a small amount financially. Unlike Modern Masters which is of limited quantity, this is not, means becoming more available to larger amount of consumers which means the supply and demand is not tipped to far in either direction if it were a hypothetical scale.
To sum up my point: If a local game store sold this for astronomically higher price it would be extremely foolish from a business standpoint.
- Gentlemen_Minotaur
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Hero of Bladehold
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
3 Path to Exile
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Spectral Procession
4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Fetid Heath
4 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Windbrisk Heights
3 Auriok Champion
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Duress
1 Path to Exile
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Rule of Law
3 Stony Silence
Obviously there will not be four thoughtseizes, but I'd love the deck to be very similar (fewever fetches and shocks too). I think the standout card, especially in a format where pod is T1 is Aven Mindcensor. I'm excited for this and I hope I can get it at msrp.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
Why would they? Maybe because the contents dont change the wholesale cost that the store pays to distributors? Strping the deck for its contents only works if the decks are limited in quantity. Unlimited availabilty will lead to price equilibrium.
Great observation, I second that. It's an incredibly meta-relevant card, and it desperately needs a reprint with a card frame that doesn't make my eyes itch and art that doesn't look like it should hang on the fridge.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'