They've worded Sage's ability specifcally to prevent going infinite with Vorel. Good save.
How did they prevent it?
Not prevent but make it vastly harder. Sage removes all of the counters on him so Vorel or Gilder-Bairn have nothing to work with. Removing the counters is part of the cost so you can't juggle stuff on the stack, either.
The answer to that problem is to just stack 20 counters on him, and remove them all at the same time. If you can't win with four extra turns you're doing EDH wrong.
I think I'm coming down on the side of this being an easily playable 5-mana PW.
Those + abilities are scary, he doesn't immediately defend himself but he starts out with a nice amount of loyalty and he demands an immediate answer. Those counters and creature/PW card draws are going to get out of hand.
Even if you can somehow deal with all the creatures he's throwing counters on or digging for, if the game goes long, how do you win when your opponent goes to 100+ life.
I also enjoy how well he cooperates with Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Elspeth brings the dudes, Ajani trains 'em, every turn you get a nice little army. Cool flavor.
To take it even deeper, you play Ajani on T5 and +1 to find Elspeth.
Vorel + New Ajani + Sage of Hours is an infinite combo, however.
Edit: Hey, neat, no one else posted that already. To be clear: with Ajani and Vorel in play, cast Sage of Hours. +1 Ajani putting all three counters on Sage. Double to 6 with Vorel. Remove all 6 for an extra turn. Repeat for infinite turns in Standard.
I'm not saying it's good, but I'll guarantee we'll see some janky homebrews doing it at FNM.
Ajani - Finally we get a WG planeswalker (it was the only color pair without one). 5cc is pretty high for him to prove playable though, so what about his abilities.
+1 for the Wurmskin Forger 187 ability, not bad, not exactly worth 5 mana though.
+1 for a aura/creature/planeswalker only Impulse, solid ability, consistent card advantage in the right deck.
-8 for 100 life, a powerful ability which if activated should put you permanently out of kill range against many decks.
So it's got card advantage (on a positive ability), an ultimate that will often win the game (in this case by usually giving you a huge amount of time to find whatever you need) but it lacks one of the most important abilities in any planeswalker - the ability to protect itself. Without such an ability I doubt it'll make much of an impact on standard. It's an unfortunate case of it being very good when you're ahead but amounting to 3GW gain 5 life and dig 4 cards for an aura/creature/planeswalker. Admittedly only the WR Ajani previously had an ability which could protect itself and all 3 Ajani's have seen some play but the 4cc Ajani gave itself some form of protection by giving mass vigilance and the 3cc Ajani was cheap enough to get by without a protection ability and GW Ajani has none of those advantages.
I want to like him I really do but beyond being awesome in limited and in casual formats it's just a bit lacking (and it could have easily been 4cc without being all that much better).
The other cards don't impressive me much, Gnarled Scarhide was the best of that cycle by far and we already knew it, the Sage is cute and it's a surprisingly aggro creature for mono U but I doubt it'll be viable. The lands are nice though and i'm really digging the art one the GB one.
Sage of Hours could be pretty hilarious in The Mimeoplasm-
It wouldn't be too hard to make one that will let you take 3-4 extra turns immediately.
Add in Illusionist's Bracers for more fun
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
They've worded Sage's ability specifcally to prevent going infinite with Vorel. Good save.
How did they prevent it?
Not prevent but make it vastly harder. Sage removes all of the counters on him so Vorel or Gilder-Bairn have nothing to work with. Removing the counters is part of the cost so you can't juggle stuff on the stack, either.
The answer to that problem is to just stack 20 counters on him, and remove them all at the same time. If you can't win with four extra turns you're doing EDH wrong.
In Standard, it isn't that easy to get 20 counters on it.
I also enjoy how well he cooperates with Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Elspeth brings the dudes, Ajani trains 'em, every turn you get a nice little army. Cool flavor.
To take it even deeper, you play Ajani on T5 and +1 to find Elspeth.
And since Ajani is searching for Elspeth in the story...
Vorel + New Ajani + Sage of Hours is an infinite combo, however.
Edit: Hey, neat, no one else posted that already. To be clear: with Ajani and Vorel in play, cast Sage of Hours. +1 Ajani putting all three counters on Sage. Double to 6 with Vorel. Remove all 6 for an extra turn. Repeat for infinite turns in Standard.
I'm not saying it's good, but I'll guarantee we'll see some janky homebrews doing it at FNM.
I don't care what ya'll say (as usual, since the negativity on this site is WELL documented)
Sage of Hours + Vorel may not be infinite, but any +1/+1 counters effects (Give/Take, Oath of the Ancient Wood, etc) can start to create a lot of extra turns really quickly. Zegana or Mistcutter Hydra or Kalonian Hydra to finish with all your extra turns, and you have a rocking FNM deck.
While I expect a lot of hate since according to this site every deck is always mono-black with 17 Hero's Downfalls in hand at all times, I think it's a damn fun mythic.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Vorel + New Ajani + Sage of Hours is an infinite combo, however.
Edit: Hey, neat, no one else posted that already. To be clear: with Ajani and Vorel in play, cast Sage of Hours. +1 Ajani putting all three counters on Sage. Double to 6 with Vorel. Remove all 6 for an extra turn. Repeat for infinite turns in Standard.
I'm not saying it's good, but I'll guarantee we'll see some janky homebrews doing it at FNM.
I'm not impressed with ajani. His ultimate simply doesn't advance you towards a winning board state, especially as on curve he'd have to sacrifice himself in the process, so its yet another turn delayed if you want to cement your position. So you're essentially riding a 5 cmc PW who either draws you a card or buffs a creature. Considering precedent, thats not all that great and its terribly slow, but in a format this slow who knows.
Vorel + New Ajani + Sage of Hours is an infinite combo, however.
Edit: Hey, neat, no one else posted that already. To be clear: with Ajani and Vorel in play, cast Sage of Hours. +1 Ajani putting all three counters on Sage. Double to 6 with Vorel. Remove all 6 for an extra turn. Repeat for infinite turns in Standard.
I'm not saying it's good, but I'll guarantee we'll see some janky homebrews doing it at FNM.
At that point it gets too clunky. What we really need in Standard right now for this to work is a good 1-2 mana library manipullation spell that draws a card.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
So... I think I see Selesnya/Naya Monsters on the horizon. Between Domri, Xenawalker, the new Ajani, and big Garruk that is some serious card advantage on the horizon for that type of deck and plenty of creatures to throw in it. New Ajani could also help push G/W/x auras, though it would be a slower build. Too bad it's not any enchantment that he can grab as well.
This version of Ajani is pure fun. I think they nailed the mentor of heroes thing very well, as you can't slap him into any deck and expect him to do well. He needs buddies to work with.
The Warhound will be a pretty solid pick for aggro drafting. Pretty cheap bestow, especially on the irritating 1/1s with evasion.
Interesting how they are bringing out 'negative' effect bestow cards, could lead to interesting choices in limited. The nautilus could be a long winded form of U removal.
msun: Knives scoop ice cream.
Highroller: No they don't, knives don't scoop. Spoons scoop.
msun: Well, knives SHOULD scoop icecream.
Highroller: We have spoons that do it. Moreover, the shape of a knife that would scoop ice cream would make it horrible for performing the functions of a knife.
msun: Highroller, you bring up spoons as though they were the utensil used for scooping ice cream.
im pretty sure we can find enough to bounce Ephara's Enlightenment back to your hand enough every turn to have unlimited turns. Also blue / white has some great cards.. I want it
The answer to that problem is to just stack 20 counters on him, and remove them all at the same time. If you can't win with four extra turns you're doing EDH wrong.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Those + abilities are scary, he doesn't immediately defend himself but he starts out with a nice amount of loyalty and he demands an immediate answer. Those counters and creature/PW card draws are going to get out of hand.
Even if you can somehow deal with all the creatures he's throwing counters on or digging for, if the game goes long, how do you win when your opponent goes to 100+ life.
To take it even deeper, you play Ajani on T5 and +1 to find Elspeth.
Edit: Hey, neat, no one else posted that already. To be clear: with Ajani and Vorel in play, cast Sage of Hours. +1 Ajani putting all three counters on Sage. Double to 6 with Vorel. Remove all 6 for an extra turn. Repeat for infinite turns in Standard.
I'm not saying it's good, but I'll guarantee we'll see some janky homebrews doing it at FNM.
So it's got card advantage (on a positive ability), an ultimate that will often win the game (in this case by usually giving you a huge amount of time to find whatever you need) but it lacks one of the most important abilities in any planeswalker - the ability to protect itself. Without such an ability I doubt it'll make much of an impact on standard. It's an unfortunate case of it being very good when you're ahead but amounting to 3GW gain 5 life and dig 4 cards for an aura/creature/planeswalker. Admittedly only the WR Ajani previously had an ability which could protect itself and all 3 Ajani's have seen some play but the 4cc Ajani gave itself some form of protection by giving mass vigilance and the 3cc Ajani was cheap enough to get by without a protection ability and GW Ajani has none of those advantages.
I want to like him I really do but beyond being awesome in limited and in casual formats it's just a bit lacking (and it could have easily been 4cc without being all that much better).
The other cards don't impressive me much, Gnarled Scarhide was the best of that cycle by far and we already knew it, the Sage is cute and it's a surprisingly aggro creature for mono U but I doubt it'll be viable. The lands are nice though and i'm really digging the art one the GB one.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
It wouldn't be too hard to make one that will let you take 3-4 extra turns immediately.
Add in Illusionist's Bracers for more fun
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
In Standard, it isn't that easy to get 20 counters on it.
And since Ajani is searching for Elspeth in the story...
That actually might be worth some testing.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
Sage of Hours + Vorel may not be infinite, but any +1/+1 counters effects (Give/Take, Oath of the Ancient Wood, etc) can start to create a lot of extra turns really quickly. Zegana or Mistcutter Hydra or Kalonian Hydra to finish with all your extra turns, and you have a rocking FNM deck.
While I expect a lot of hate since according to this site every deck is always mono-black with 17 Hero's Downfalls in hand at all times, I think it's a damn fun mythic.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Corpsejack Menace
Can i add him into the equation as well ?
At that point it gets too clunky. What we really need in Standard right now for this to work is a good 1-2 mana library manipullation spell that draws a card.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Ajani + Kalonian Hydra
Ajani + Vorel
Ajani + Corpsejack Menace
Ajani + Krasis Incubation + 7 mana
Krasis Incubation + Primeval Bounty + 7 mana
Edit: Krasis Incubation + Corpsejack Menace
Death's Presence + Ooze Flux + Scourge of Skola Vale + something to get Scourge started
Death's Presence + Ooze Flux + any sac outlet + ten +1/+1 counters amongst creatures you control (maybe Evolve is involved)
Krasis Incubation + 14 mana
---
Any other I missed? Oath of the Ancient Wood + Krasis Incubation is this close, but comes up 1 counter short.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Interesting how they are bringing out 'negative' effect bestow cards, could lead to interesting choices in limited. The nautilus could be a long winded form of U removal.
Ajani - nice!
Thread | Draft
Ephara's Enlightenment + Elspeth, Sun's Champion + Brimaz, King of Oreskos + God-Favored General + Heliod, God of the Sun
I think thats a 2 colour variant
im pretty sure we can find enough to bounce Ephara's Enlightenment back to your hand enough every turn to have unlimited turns. Also blue / white has some great cards.. I want it