Eh, I don't think Kruphix is going to see play in Sphinx's Revelation decks. Kruphix augments the power of Revelation (and Syncopate, I guess), but it doesn't really do enough on its own to warrant inclusion.
Besides, you don't need to run a 5-mana enchantment in order to make Sphinx's Revelation better. It's already a damn good card by itself.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
This block really has been a bit too EDH focused, not complaining about kruphix in general, but they seem to be using the commander sets to cater to legacy (TNN, scavenging ooze) and the standard sets for EDH, that doesn't sit right with me. I don't play edh really, and this block hasn't printed much of anything good for older formats, and even standard has felt janky since innistrad rotated out.
At this point I'm just waiting for the next block... Or 2, I am a pretty sad magic player atm.
This block really has been a bit too EDH focused, not complaining about kruphix in general, but they seem to be using the commander sets to cater to legacy (TNN, scavenging ooze) and the standard sets for EDH, that doesn't sit right with me. I don't play edh really, and this block hasn't printed much of anything good for older formats, and even standard has felt janky since innistrad rotated out.
At this point I'm just waiting for the next block... Or 2, I am a pretty sad magic player atm.
Consider the fact that its not just Standard and EDH, its actually: Standard, Modern, EDH, Cube, Limited (Draft), Limited (Sealed), Legacy, and Vintage.
Whenever they release new sets they have to keep in mind EIGHT different formats. Even Standard has to take a back seat to Limited (Sealed or Draft) since the set must be balanced for that to begin with.
Wow, such hostility, and totally unwarranted as the person you are replying to wasn't hostile to you. Violence is what lesser people have to resort when they feel attacked and they recognise their own arguments weak enough not to be validated without some good ol' intimidation.
Now, if you can calm down enough to understand that being told you're wrong is not a personal attack, here's some thinking material:
-First you advise me to learn to build decks with the available cards, implying that just because I'm dissatisfied with Kuphrix I must be incapable of building decks and I need some kind of superpowerful card to do the work for me. This is not true, and as the poster you're attacking pointed, it's poor reading comprehension. I didn't complain about being unable to build UG without a playable good, but rather not being able to use a GOD in my favourite colours. The word "cool" I used, as opposed to "powerful" should have hinted you of that. I can still build a good UG deck (in fact, I have a competitive UBG deck). I was just lamenting I don't get to use a cool splashy card for it, like RW and UR just got with their gods.
-True, there might be a chance that in a year, the new standard format will have some key cards that will allow Kuphrix to be actually useful (though Sphynx's Revelation the card that currently benefits most from him, will have rotated). Maybe a deck heavy in permission that is happy to pass the turn without touching mana, and then storing it at the end of the opponent's turn if nothing needed to be countered. Still, that means that you want to play Kuphrix with counterspelling mana open, because he is, and let me stress this the only god who by definition does nothing at all if he's removed the turn after you cast it. Other gods may require you to play creatures or spend mana in order to get a benefit right away, but at least, the chance of it happening is there. Kuphrix was just a waste of mana if he gets dealt with. And trust me, in a format where 60% of the board plays Detention Sphere and the other 40% is going to start sideboarding Flush Into the Aether and Revoke Existence to deal with an enchantment-heavy format, gods meeting their demise the turn after they're cast will be a common occurrence. Moreover, he needs a couple turns of you not doing much to finally do something actually remarkable. I don't see the cards supporting that deck existing right now and who knows if they'll exist in the next year's standard, but statistically speaking, is unlikely, as very few cards useless towards the end of one standard cycle become good when the new one rolls in. The cards to fully exploit him exist in older formats and Commander provides a framework that fully encourages the type of play he was created for. Even if at some point he becomes Standard playable, he was clearly designed for Commander.
-You aggressively imply that we're knee-jerking, but I actually have given a lot of thought to the matter. Have you? Or you just reacted to the chance of bashing some "whining noobs"? If you have, please share with us about the incredible usefulness of Kuphrix in the current format. You mention that many control decks will love it. Exactly how many control decks in standard play UG? Have you tried UG or Bant and found them truly "very playable" as you say and welcoming of a card like Kuphrix? I have. As I said, it's my favourite colour combination and I've been trying to make it work for long. The best I've got is a tier-3 deck that became tier-2 thanks to Kiora, but that's it... and that deck doesn't want nor need Kuphrix. I'm pretty sure that many, many other people have been trying to make those colours work too, to no avail, even having the arguably second best charm. Have you seen any deck with those colours in any top-8, nay, top 16 of any tournament? The only one that comes to mind is that UBG one with lots of defenders and Phenax, which plays green only for the acceleration and that top-8'd in a big tournament exactly once, as far as I know.
-You'll have to show me the quote (apparently repeated many times, according to you) that they don't design with formats in mind. They DO. It's absolutely transparent when they design a card for Legacy, Modern or Commander in a Standard product. Ken Nagle LOVES Commander and he repeatedly has stated to create this or that card with Commander in mind.
-Your very first argument that Wizards catering only to standard players would cut some of their profit from players of other formats was a good argument! You could have left it at that instead of getting all worked out and start speaking out of your arse. nevertheless, my initial complaint was that these Commander-oriented cards should be left out of cycles NOT because I want every card in a cycle to be powerful as you said in your last paragraph, but because players will feel left out. Why do other colour pairs get standard-oriented gods and ours doesn't? It's like watching your siblings opening thoughtful presents that they love and then you opening some stuff that you don't care for but your uncle likes. It's that feeling of betrayal what I'm talking about, not power level. Phenax is not great but you can tell it was created with this post-RtR format in mind.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Eh, I don't think Kruphix is going to see play in Sphinx's Revelation decks. Kruphix augments the power of Revelation (and Syncopate, I guess), but it doesn't really do enough on its own to warrant inclusion.
Besides, you don't need to run a 5-mana enchantment in order to make Sphinx's Revelation better. It's already a damn good card by itself.
Okay. I apologize for being hostile that was pretty douchey of me. I understand where you're coming from. My favorite color is blue and the lack of instant speed card draw and decent cheap counter spells in standard upset me. But that's just the way it is sometimes. You do understand that it's almost near impossible to balance the power level between cards especially in cycles. Yeah it does suck that kruphix is a disappointment to some people but I'm sure with a bit of creativity and ingenuity a competitive deck could be made. Heck simic flash is actually not a bad deck. sorry again. and sorry to mysnomer too
Okay. I apologize for being hostile that was pretty douchey of me. I understand where you're coming from. My favorite color is blue and the lack of instant speed card draw and decent cheap counter spells in standard upset me. But that's just the way it is sometimes. You do understand that it's almost near impossible to balance the power level between cards especially in cycles. Yeah it does suck that kruphix is a disappointment to some people but I'm sure with a bit of creativity and ingenuity a competitive deck could be made. Heck simic flash is actually not a bad deck. sorry again. and sorry to mysnomer too
What .. if you are struggling to find drawing cards with blue you are doing it wrong
all of those cards are.... really bad. I was thinking more along the lines of another think twice. As for counters i meant something that hits everything and aren't situational like a mana leak or counterspell. Instead we're stuck using divination and dissolve as options in control. Maybe i was spoiled by innistrad block and expected more. oh well
Okay. I apologize for being hostile that was pretty douchey of me. I understand where you're coming from. My favorite color is blue and the lack of instant speed card draw and decent cheap counter spells in standard upset me. But that's just the way it is sometimes. You do understand that it's almost near impossible to balance the power level between cards especially in cycles. Yeah it does suck that kruphix is a disappointment to some people but I'm sure with a bit of creativity and ingenuity a competitive deck could be made. Heck simic flash is actually not a bad deck. sorry again. and sorry to mysnomer too
What .. if you are struggling to find drawing cards with blue you are doing it wrong
Maybe im missing something but cheap counter spells and draw seems good for blue
Other than Dispel, Swan Song, Negate, Annul, and Judge's Familiar, those counterspells are horrible, and very narrow and even they can't answer creatures.
all of those cards are.... really bad. I was thinking more along the lines of another think twice. As for counters i meant something that hits everything and aren't situational like a mana leak or counterspell. Instead we're stuck using divination and dissolve as options in control. Maybe i was spoiled by innistrad block and expected more. oh well
I dont think counterspell has been legal in standard for 10 yrs + now. I doubt this will change. Mana Leak might be back
Okay. I apologize for being hostile that was pretty douchey of me. I understand where you're coming from. My favorite color is blue and the lack of instant speed card draw and decent cheap counter spells in standard upset me. But that's just the way it is sometimes. You do understand that it's almost near impossible to balance the power level between cards especially in cycles. Yeah it does suck that kruphix is a disappointment to some people but I'm sure with a bit of creativity and ingenuity a competitive deck could be made. Heck simic flash is actually not a bad deck. sorry again. and sorry to mysnomer too
I identify as a Johnny. I love obtuse combos, but I like it when those combos do something, or have some sort of built in resilience. Reading Kruphix, I see "if unused mana would empty from your pool" and I'm thinking, Cool, some sort of one-sided upwelling, maybe I can break-"colorless". O-oh, ok then, erm, well, I guess X spells? Except Sphinx is already one of the best cards in standard, even when you cast it for as little as 5. I just keep thinking, what would I play this in? What deck do I want to establish a hard lock and then sit around doing as little as possible for 3 to 4 turns while building up my mana. Then I look over at Keranos*, and he may be tier 2 or 3, but you can slam him and Mogis into a UBR control deck and they will do something. I know Rosewater says "restriction breeds creativity," but there's "restriction," and then there's "hamstrung." I don't feel creatively challenged by Kruphix, I feel like going back and working on that Phenax mill deck I was concepting, or praying at the altar of Pharika for her to have some competitive edge. Also, if it's true what someone said, about the colorless thing being to make it easier to keep track of, that feels a little insulting; like they want a card for you to wrap your brain around, but not too much thinking. IMO, the only way to "break" Kruphix is to get him out early, like turn 2 or 3 early, and without all this overextending on mana dorks stuff. So when they reveal "Nyxforge Mystic" or whatevs, I'll happily eat my words with a side of humility**.
Thanks for saying this more calmly and comprehensively than I could.
*Though Keranos has his own problems of not synergizing with instant speed draw, but at least he synergizes with scry, which is more than I can say for Kruphix.
**Haha, I did a thing there. >_> Please don't hurt me.
I wish that when Wizards wants to create cards like this, about which everyone agrees is "clearly designed for EDH" they didn't do it with cards belonging to cycles. You get to see other people getting super cool cards for their favourite colour pairs, and when it comes to find the one for YOUR favourite colour pair, it turns out that it's unplayable in the format that you play and you can't help to feel a bit betrayed.
Aren't we, standard players a huge majority when compared to commander players? Commander players already get a product catered specifically for them every year, full of cool, exclusive cards that modern or standard players cannot legally touch. Why cannot we have "expert" sets be exclusive to us, then?
The UG god is ludicrously good in EDH. In contrast, the RW god is just bad everywhere, maybe mediocre in Standard.
Maybe you guys should stop calling them "my colors." The game has five of them. If you don't like what's being offered in one or two, you can always play the others.
Also, if you have both Kruphix and Omnath, you keep green mana and everything else turns colorless. Omnath is not a replacement effect, and that's not how the interaction of multiple replacement effects works, Rakath.
Other than Dispel, Swan Song, Negate, Annul, and Judge's Familiar, those counterspells are horrible, and very narrow and even they can't answer creatures.
In other words ½ the number quoted。In other words it’s 50/50。Good OR bad。
It's all good. And look! That Dictate of Karametra is one of the key cards that I said standard was lacking to make Kuphrix work. I may yet have to reconsider my judgement.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I think ppl are forgetting kruphix does have some decent application into building up a big blow out spell like sphinx revelation in standard or even some sort of genesis wave decks in modern (maybe mono green with nykthos?)
the card is interesting enough for deck builder across the board to try to built off it and I would not be surprise if stuff like sphinx's revelation or entreat the angels... etc.
Kruphix is whatever as expected. But I am SUPER excited for spite of mogis, this makes u/r counter burn at least possible now ( i goldfished it for awhile, and it can generally do like 5-10 damage!)
I think ppl are forgetting kruphix does have some decent application into building up a big blow out spell like sphinx revelation in standard or even some sort of genesis wave decks in modern (maybe mono green with nykthos?)
the card is interesting enough for deck builder across the board to try to built off it and I would not be surprise if stuff like sphinx's revelation or entreat the angels... etc.
I, for one, am particularly interested in at least attempting the concept of building up massive Mind Grinds, if only for the fun of winning a few games here and there with it.
In the rulebook for Theros sets they probably forgot to mention that Minor Gods shall see ... only minor competitive play. That's why they are worse than the original ones
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have divined your fate. You shall find your nemesis, a catastrophic clash. Devastation, misery for all, the unleashing of horrible curses and ferocious powers. Ruin, such ruin that I dream each night of blessed peace, assured that the universe is in balance once more...
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Besides, you don't need to run a 5-mana enchantment in order to make Sphinx's Revelation better. It's already a damn good card by itself.
At this point I'm just waiting for the next block... Or 2, I am a pretty sad magic player atm.
Consider the fact that its not just Standard and EDH, its actually: Standard, Modern, EDH, Cube, Limited (Draft), Limited (Sealed), Legacy, and Vintage.
Whenever they release new sets they have to keep in mind EIGHT different formats. Even Standard has to take a back seat to Limited (Sealed or Draft) since the set must be balanced for that to begin with.
Now, if you can calm down enough to understand that being told you're wrong is not a personal attack, here's some thinking material:
-First you advise me to learn to build decks with the available cards, implying that just because I'm dissatisfied with Kuphrix I must be incapable of building decks and I need some kind of superpowerful card to do the work for me. This is not true, and as the poster you're attacking pointed, it's poor reading comprehension. I didn't complain about being unable to build UG without a playable good, but rather not being able to use a GOD in my favourite colours. The word "cool" I used, as opposed to "powerful" should have hinted you of that. I can still build a good UG deck (in fact, I have a competitive UBG deck). I was just lamenting I don't get to use a cool splashy card for it, like RW and UR just got with their gods.
-True, there might be a chance that in a year, the new standard format will have some key cards that will allow Kuphrix to be actually useful (though Sphynx's Revelation the card that currently benefits most from him, will have rotated). Maybe a deck heavy in permission that is happy to pass the turn without touching mana, and then storing it at the end of the opponent's turn if nothing needed to be countered. Still, that means that you want to play Kuphrix with counterspelling mana open, because he is, and let me stress this the only god who by definition does nothing at all if he's removed the turn after you cast it. Other gods may require you to play creatures or spend mana in order to get a benefit right away, but at least, the chance of it happening is there. Kuphrix was just a waste of mana if he gets dealt with. And trust me, in a format where 60% of the board plays Detention Sphere and the other 40% is going to start sideboarding Flush Into the Aether and Revoke Existence to deal with an enchantment-heavy format, gods meeting their demise the turn after they're cast will be a common occurrence. Moreover, he needs a couple turns of you not doing much to finally do something actually remarkable. I don't see the cards supporting that deck existing right now and who knows if they'll exist in the next year's standard, but statistically speaking, is unlikely, as very few cards useless towards the end of one standard cycle become good when the new one rolls in. The cards to fully exploit him exist in older formats and Commander provides a framework that fully encourages the type of play he was created for. Even if at some point he becomes Standard playable, he was clearly designed for Commander.
-You aggressively imply that we're knee-jerking, but I actually have given a lot of thought to the matter. Have you? Or you just reacted to the chance of bashing some "whining noobs"? If you have, please share with us about the incredible usefulness of Kuphrix in the current format. You mention that many control decks will love it. Exactly how many control decks in standard play UG? Have you tried UG or Bant and found them truly "very playable" as you say and welcoming of a card like Kuphrix? I have. As I said, it's my favourite colour combination and I've been trying to make it work for long. The best I've got is a tier-3 deck that became tier-2 thanks to Kiora, but that's it... and that deck doesn't want nor need Kuphrix. I'm pretty sure that many, many other people have been trying to make those colours work too, to no avail, even having the arguably second best charm. Have you seen any deck with those colours in any top-8, nay, top 16 of any tournament? The only one that comes to mind is that UBG one with lots of defenders and Phenax, which plays green only for the acceleration and that top-8'd in a big tournament exactly once, as far as I know.
-You'll have to show me the quote (apparently repeated many times, according to you) that they don't design with formats in mind. They DO. It's absolutely transparent when they design a card for Legacy, Modern or Commander in a Standard product. Ken Nagle LOVES Commander and he repeatedly has stated to create this or that card with Commander in mind.
-Your very first argument that Wizards catering only to standard players would cut some of their profit from players of other formats was a good argument! You could have left it at that instead of getting all worked out and start speaking out of your arse. nevertheless, my initial complaint was that these Commander-oriented cards should be left out of cycles NOT because I want every card in a cycle to be powerful as you said in your last paragraph, but because players will feel left out. Why do other colour pairs get standard-oriented gods and ours doesn't? It's like watching your siblings opening thoughtful presents that they love and then you opening some stuff that you don't care for but your uncle likes. It's that feeling of betrayal what I'm talking about, not power level. Phenax is not great but you can tell it was created with this post-RtR format in mind.
He offers mana efficiency.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
What .. if you are struggling to find drawing cards with blue you are doing it wrong
Quicken
Inspiration
Scatter Arc - counter and draw
Opportunity
draw 1,2,4 missing draw 3 for 5 mana
cheap counter spells
Annul
Dispel
Judge's Familiar - great great card
Swan Song
Essence Scatter
Negate
Nullify
Spell Rupture
Stymied Hopes
Thassa's Rebuff
Maybe im missing something but cheap counter spells and draw seems good for blue
Other than Dispel, Swan Song, Negate, Annul, and Judge's Familiar, those counterspells are horrible, and very narrow and even they can't answer creatures.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I dont think counterspell has been legal in standard for 10 yrs + now. I doubt this will change. Mana Leak might be back
I identify as a Johnny. I love obtuse combos, but I like it when those combos do something, or have some sort of built in resilience. Reading Kruphix, I see "if unused mana would empty from your pool" and I'm thinking, Cool, some sort of one-sided upwelling, maybe I can break- "colorless". O-oh, ok then, erm, well, I guess X spells? Except Sphinx is already one of the best cards in standard, even when you cast it for as little as 5. I just keep thinking, what would I play this in? What deck do I want to establish a hard lock and then sit around doing as little as possible for 3 to 4 turns while building up my mana. Then I look over at Keranos*, and he may be tier 2 or 3, but you can slam him and Mogis into a UBR control deck and they will do something. I know Rosewater says "restriction breeds creativity," but there's "restriction," and then there's "hamstrung." I don't feel creatively challenged by Kruphix, I feel like going back and working on that Phenax mill deck I was concepting, or praying at the altar of Pharika for her to have some competitive edge. Also, if it's true what someone said, about the colorless thing being to make it easier to keep track of, that feels a little insulting; like they want a card for you to wrap your brain around, but not too much thinking. IMO, the only way to "break" Kruphix is to get him out early, like turn 2 or 3 early, and without all this overextending on mana dorks stuff. So when they reveal "Nyxforge Mystic" or whatevs, I'll happily eat my words with a side of humility**.
Thanks for saying this more calmly and comprehensively than I could.
*Though Keranos has his own problems of not synergizing with instant speed draw, but at least he synergizes with scry, which is more than I can say for Kruphix.
**Haha, I did a thing there. >_> Please don't hurt me.
The UG god is ludicrously good in EDH. In contrast, the RW god is just bad everywhere, maybe mediocre in Standard.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Also, if you have both Kruphix and Omnath, you keep green mana and everything else turns colorless. Omnath is not a replacement effect, and that's not how the interaction of multiple replacement effects works, Rakath.
Standard: W/R Aggro
In other words ½ the number quoted。In other words it’s 50/50。Good OR bad。
the card is interesting enough for deck builder across the board to try to built off it and I would not be surprise if stuff like sphinx's revelation or entreat the angels... etc.
I, for one, am particularly interested in at least attempting the concept of building up massive Mind Grinds, if only for the fun of winning a few games here and there with it.