As I was saying in the modern forum: they did just say they considered modern stale and tried to remove it from the highest level of play, they got some huge feedback to reintroduce it and they went with the least impactful action IMHO.
Ktk block I don't know if it'll make things better, surely helps but still disappointed. Also legacy could use some fresh unbans just to throw the format a bone, I understand it doesn't make them money, the cards aren't usually targeted at older formats, but man maybe some banlist change there would've been nice.
Probably most players don't want legacy to be changed but I enjoy both mdoern and legacy banlist updates when there's action, not when it's so damn boring <.<
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Vintage nostalgic, WUB Fish control/aggro addicted.
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
Here is the thing about Modern, most higher level players hate the format because 1)It is stale, and 2) The sideboard cards are so powerful that it makes the games super swingy and high variance.
They need to do something to make the format fun again or it is going to get worse quickly.
Allied fetchlands will mix things up enough for now in Modern. (At least I'm confident that's what Wizards thinks.)
January would be the perfect time to toss in some curveballs before the major Modern events in the first part of the year, so that's when we'll see anything get unbanned (nothing is likely to get banned then).
No surprises here. January, though, it should be time to take GGT and possibly AV off the Modern list to shake things up a bit.
After testing Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, I believe Ancestral Vision can be unbanned with little to no impact on Modern. Treasure Cruise is like AV if it got hit by graveyard hate but was a good topdeck instead of a terrible one, was more resistant to Remand, couldn't be Inquisition of Kozileked, didn't have to a 4-of you don't want to see late-game, and let you spend Turn 1 on worthy things like Bolt and IoK instead of twiddling your thumbs suspending AV.
I am fitting the blue Delve twins in midrange, combo, tempo, aggro, and control. They're scary versatile, especially compared to AV, and I predict they'll make a huge impact on Modern. I'm scared that they'll get banned.
No surprises here. January, though, it should be time to take GGT and possibly AV off the Modern list to shake things up a bit.
After testing Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, I believe Ancestral Vision can be unbanned with little to no impact on Modern. Treasure Cruise is like AV if it got hit by graveyard hate but was a good topdeck instead of a terrible one, was more resistant to Remand, couldn't be Inquisition of Kozileked, didn't have to a 4-of you don't want to see late-game, and let you spend Turn 1 on worthy things like Bolt and IoK instead of twiddling your thumbs suspending AV.
I am fitting the blue Delve twins in midrange, combo, tempo, aggro, and control. They're scary versatile, especially compared to AV, and I predict they'll make a huge impact on Modern. I'm scared that they'll get banned.
Dig Through Time is a house in RUG twin and gives it a nice little go button to complement its midrange game.
I doubt that Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time could draw you 3 cards on turn 5 like Ancestral Vision for 0 mana on that turn. At the very least, even if your graveyard was full enough to delve the 6 or 7 cards, you would still have to spend mana to cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. After you cast the first one, you need more cards in your graveyard to efficiently cast another copy. If you get two copies of either early on, the second copy is probably useless. If you have 2 or more copies of AV, you will suspend them so that you can draw 3 extra cards on successive turns. See the difference. AV is way too good to be unbanned.
I doubt that Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time could draw you 3 cards on turn 5 like Ancestral Vision for 0 mana on that turn. At the very least, even if your graveyard was full enough to delve the 6 or 7 cards, you would still have to spend mana to cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. After you cast the first one, you need more cards in your graveyard to efficiently cast another copy. If you get two copies of either early on, the second copy is probably useless. If you have 2 or more copies of AV, you will suspend them so that you can draw 3 extra cards on successive turns. See the difference. AV is way too good to be unbanned.
You should try testing the cards and see if you feel the same way. Going through a 50 game gauntlet in Legacy and another 20 in modern has proven to me how absurdly easy it is to chain 2-3 together for 1-2 mana for TC. DTT is probably safe but is incredible too. TC is definitely replacing AV in a lot of Legacy deck building and prep because you can just hardcast whenever.
I doubt that Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time could draw you 3 cards on turn 5 like Ancestral Vision for 0 mana on that turn. At the very least, even if your graveyard was full enough to delve the 6 or 7 cards, you would still have to spend mana to cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. After you cast the first one, you need more cards in your graveyard to efficiently cast another copy. If you get two copies of either early on, the second copy is probably useless. If you have 2 or more copies of AV, you will suspend them so that you can draw 3 extra cards on successive turns. See the difference. AV is way too good to be unbanned.
I've found that chaining Delve draw spells is surprisingly easy, even in Snapcaster Mage decks. (I prefer Dig Through Time in Tiago decks, though.) Build your deck well and each Treasure Cruise draws 2-2.5 cards' worth of Delve on average.
I've cast 1-mana Treasure Cruises on Turn 2. One was in a deck I semi-built around Delve (very high cantrip count, removal that can always be cast--they're called burn, disruption that cantrips, high fetchland count, Thought Scour, Gitaxian Probe). The others were from a Jeskai Ascendancy deck that I think will be a Modern contender. I often chain together Treasure Cruises in the Ascendancy deck on the same combo turn.
Modern is super popular, as indicated by the outcry against removing it from the pro tour, the massive numbers that play in modern GPs, the demand for fetchland reprints. Some American pros seemed to dislike it because they can't just pick the best deck and top8. Meanwhile, normal people who specialise in modern and spend a lot of time practising and tweaking their deck do very well, like Patrick Dickmann.
I was hoping that they would unban something after accusing the format of being stale a few months ago, but they probably think they allied fetchlands are enough of a change for the time being. I suppose that's fair; they'll probably have more impact than unbanning one of the unassuming cards on the list. There's no reason they couldn't have done both, though.
Legacy and Modern are too well balanced. its stagnating in my opinion. This isnt a good thing btw. format boogeymans is what drives a format. pro players will disagree of course because it cuts that spiky competitive edge
of course modern would seem stale if you continue to netdeck the same thing every tournament you go to. there are plenty of decks and ideas that can win against the tier 1 decks. also, many people (even pros, who obviously are the end all be all of opinions on modern /sarcasm) have admitted, sideboard cards are very powerful in modern and can swing games, so what is to say that a rogue deck can't do well with a properly constructed sideboard? take shouta's tezzeret deck for example. way out of left field and its a good deck that can do well in a large tournament setting. innovative decks are arguably better imo since the opponent has no idea what you're playing game 1 or how to play against you optimally, whereas if you're playing jund or pod most people know exactly what you're doing after your first 2 land drops.
TLDR if you think modern is stale i think you are incredibly lazy and uncreative and you should take a chance and design something new and exciting.
on topic, i think they could unbar some things in modern, but NOT JTMS or BBE as was alluded to on a recent episode of magic TV on the CFB youtube channel. unban grave troll, there is so much hate that everyone has in their sideboard anyways, i don't think a graveyard strategy could be that oppressive given what people already commonly use.
Legacy and Modern will be the opposite of stale this KTK season. Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are very powerful cards from my testing and will barge their way into all sorts of decks. They're slightly slow, so aggro may make a comeback...but I've been testing a consistent and sometimes brutally fast Modern Jeskai Ascendancy "Storm" combo deck that often combos off through one piece of hate, and that'll crush aggro despite also playing Treasure Cruise.
It'll be a very interesting Pro Tour Khans of Tarkir. In compensation for not changing the ban list, they released and virtually unbanned the new and improved Ancestral Vision 2.0 called Treasure Cruise. I believe Ascendancy Storm will be the breakout deck of the tournament, but Twin may remain on top.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
of course modern would seem stale if you continue to netdeck the same thing every tournament you go to. there are plenty of decks and ideas that can win against the tier 1 decks. also, many people (even pros, who obviously are the end all be all of opinions on modern /sarcasm) have admitted, sideboard cards are very powerful in modern and can swing games, so what is to say that a rogue deck can't do well with a properly constructed sideboard? take shouta's tezzeret deck for example. way out of left field and its a good deck that can do well in a large tournament setting. innovative decks are arguably better imo since the opponent has no idea what you're playing game 1 or how to play against you optimally, whereas if you're playing jund or pod most people know exactly what you're doing after your first 2 land drops.
TLDR if you think modern is stale i think you are incredibly lazy and uncreative and you should take a chance and design something new and exciting.
on topic, i think they could unbar some things in modern, but NOT JTMS or BBE as was alluded to on a recent episode of magic TV on the CFB youtube channel. unban grave troll, there is so much hate that everyone has in their sideboard anyways, i don't think a graveyard strategy could be that oppressive given what people already commonly use.
PV had a very similar attitude when he talked about PT Born of the Gods:
This tournament was the epitome of all I hate, and have always hated, about Modern. It doesn’t matter how tuned your deck is or how much better you play, if you are playing Affinity and they draw turn two Stony Silence you are going to lose, and the same is true for a number of other decks.
Basically, the same kind of "I can't run a overtly powerful deck and mow down the field because I can afford to spend weeks testing" attitude that LSV and Efro gave off. An arrogance of "the format sucks because it doesn't allow our skill to be shown." And saddens me because I respect them, but the format sucks because it's balanced? That's how formats should be.
of course modern would seem stale if you continue to netdeck the same thing every tournament you go to. there are plenty of decks and ideas that can win against the tier 1 decks. also, many people (even pros, who obviously are the end all be all of opinions on modern /sarcasm) have admitted, sideboard cards are very powerful in modern and can swing games, so what is to say that a rogue deck can't do well with a properly constructed sideboard? take shouta's tezzeret deck for example. way out of left field and its a good deck that can do well in a large tournament setting. innovative decks are arguably better imo since the opponent has no idea what you're playing game 1 or how to play against you optimally, whereas if you're playing jund or pod most people know exactly what you're doing after your first 2 land drops.
TLDR if you think modern is stale i think you are incredibly lazy and uncreative and you should take a chance and design something new and exciting.
on topic, i think they could unbar some things in modern, but NOT JTMS or BBE as was alluded to on a recent episode of magic TV on the CFB youtube channel. unban grave troll, there is so much hate that everyone has in their sideboard anyways, i don't think a graveyard strategy could be that oppressive given what people already commonly use.
PV had a very similar attitude when he talked about PT Born of the Gods:
This tournament was the epitome of all I hate, and have always hated, about Modern. It doesn’t matter how tuned your deck is or how much better you play, if you are playing Affinity and they draw turn two Stony Silence you are going to lose, and the same is true for a number of other decks.
Basically, the same kind of "I can't run a overtly powerful deck and mow down the field because I can afford to spend weeks testing" attitude that LSV and Efro gave off. An arrogance of "the format sucks because it doesn't allow our skill to be shown." And saddens me because I respect them, but the format sucks because it's balanced? That's how formats should be.
I think you miss the point here. Drawing 1 card and beating an entire deck is pretty miserable and mindless. Especially when your on a synergistic deck thats very draw dependent to do anything at all. You already have that bad factor against you, but also having the fact that your opponent can play 1 single card make you lose the game, well do we really need to explain how stupid that is?
It's the price you pay for playing a high-powered deck with a narrow focus, though. Silver bullets exist, but they don't define the format. There are a ton of deck options that don't get hated out that easily. Playing Affinity and complaining about Stony Silence is like playing Belcher in Legacy and complaining about Force of Will. It's not "miserable" or "mindless." It's just the nature of playing a deck that skews toward an extreme.
It's the price you pay for playing a high-powered deck with a narrow focus, though. Silver bullets exist, but they don't define the format. There are a ton of deck options that don't get hated out that easily. Playing Affinity and complaining about Stony Silence is like playing Belcher in Legacy and complaining about Force of Will. It's not "miserable" or "mindless." It's just the nature of playing a deck that skews toward an extreme.
Affinity isnt Belcher though. Its not a deck that has one single goal, which is to kill you on turn 1 with one single card. Affinity can have some good starts, but what aggressive deck doesnt? Its just a very strong aggressive deck, but getting hosed by 1 single card is pretty unfair.
Problem about trying to play anything synergistic in modern is that you get easily wrecked by single cards like this, which is not really a good thing. Someone should not be able to cast one single card and destroy an entire deck. I can see why the pros think this is "skilless" since it is. Your adding 1 card to your deck, casting it, and basically winning the game. There isnt any decision to be made other than putting the 1 card in your deck. I dont see where you can get a skillful game unless you just dont play X deck due to 1 card basically forcing you to scoop.
Posters saying bans/unbans should happen to shake up a format is by far the stupidest phrase I've ever read. Perhaps topping the phrase, "more better." Sit there and think about all of the little intricacies of that statement, then come back.
Players and WotC need to realize that with older formats, change doesn't happen in an instant. It takes months, such is the case with having large card pools.
As far as Modern being a stale format to the pros, and not featuring new cards from sets simply just means what I've read from jimjemasak and shodai said: "we can't run down the field with the best deck, because there is none."
And it is funny reading a lot of the comments about Modern suffering, because you can replace the word 'Modern' with 'Legacy' in every one of them and see the same light Legacy players have been seeing.
I see all of this whining about Affinity and it reminds me of Dredge in Legacy. Dredge also tends to get crushed by hate cards (though not nearly as bad as Modern Affinity), and when Dredge starts putting up results, people pack more hate in their sideboards. Dredge fades, people start taking out their hate, then it makes a resurgence.
And yet there's really no evidence that such a cycle is happening with a deck like modern Affinity. Rather than play something else for a while (or pack more answers), folks are just complaining. =/
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/september-22-2014-dci-banned-restricted-list-announcement-2014-09-22
Discuss!
Ktk block I don't know if it'll make things better, surely helps but still disappointed. Also legacy could use some fresh unbans just to throw the format a bone, I understand it doesn't make them money, the cards aren't usually targeted at older formats, but man maybe some banlist change there would've been nice.
Probably most players don't want legacy to be changed but I enjoy both mdoern and legacy banlist updates when there's action, not when it's so damn boring <.<
Legacy:RUG Temur Delver
Modern: ??? undecided.
They need to do something to make the format fun again or it is going to get worse quickly.
January would be the perfect time to toss in some curveballs before the major Modern events in the first part of the year, so that's when we'll see anything get unbanned (nothing is likely to get banned then).
After testing Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, I believe Ancestral Vision can be unbanned with little to no impact on Modern. Treasure Cruise is like AV if it got hit by graveyard hate but was a good topdeck instead of a terrible one, was more resistant to Remand, couldn't be Inquisition of Kozileked, didn't have to a 4-of you don't want to see late-game, and let you spend Turn 1 on worthy things like Bolt and IoK instead of twiddling your thumbs suspending AV.
I am fitting the blue Delve twins in midrange, combo, tempo, aggro, and control. They're scary versatile, especially compared to AV, and I predict they'll make a huge impact on Modern. I'm scared that they'll get banned.
Dig Through Time is a house in RUG twin and gives it a nice little go button to complement its midrange game.
That sounds like a pretty awful deck to play honestly.
You should try testing the cards and see if you feel the same way. Going through a 50 game gauntlet in Legacy and another 20 in modern has proven to me how absurdly easy it is to chain 2-3 together for 1-2 mana for TC. DTT is probably safe but is incredible too. TC is definitely replacing AV in a lot of Legacy deck building and prep because you can just hardcast whenever.
I've found that chaining Delve draw spells is surprisingly easy, even in Snapcaster Mage decks. (I prefer Dig Through Time in Tiago decks, though.) Build your deck well and each Treasure Cruise draws 2-2.5 cards' worth of Delve on average.
I've cast 1-mana Treasure Cruises on Turn 2. One was in a deck I semi-built around Delve (very high cantrip count, removal that can always be cast--they're called burn, disruption that cantrips, high fetchland count, Thought Scour, Gitaxian Probe). The others were from a Jeskai Ascendancy deck that I think will be a Modern contender. I often chain together Treasure Cruises in the Ascendancy deck on the same combo turn.
TLDR if you think modern is stale i think you are incredibly lazy and uncreative and you should take a chance and design something new and exciting.
on topic, i think they could unbar some things in modern, but NOT JTMS or BBE as was alluded to on a recent episode of magic TV on the CFB youtube channel. unban grave troll, there is so much hate that everyone has in their sideboard anyways, i don't think a graveyard strategy could be that oppressive given what people already commonly use.
It'll be a very interesting Pro Tour Khans of Tarkir. In compensation for not changing the ban list, they released and virtually unbanned the new and improved Ancestral Vision 2.0 called Treasure Cruise. I believe Ascendancy Storm will be the breakout deck of the tournament, but Twin may remain on top.
You mean like Living End?
PV had a very similar attitude when he talked about PT Born of the Gods:
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/pvs-playhouse-pro-tour-born-of-the-gods/
Basically, the same kind of "I can't run a overtly powerful deck and mow down the field because I can afford to spend weeks testing" attitude that LSV and Efro gave off. An arrogance of "the format sucks because it doesn't allow our skill to be shown." And saddens me because I respect them, but the format sucks because it's balanced? That's how formats should be.
I think you miss the point here. Drawing 1 card and beating an entire deck is pretty miserable and mindless. Especially when your on a synergistic deck thats very draw dependent to do anything at all. You already have that bad factor against you, but also having the fact that your opponent can play 1 single card make you lose the game, well do we really need to explain how stupid that is?
Affinity isnt Belcher though. Its not a deck that has one single goal, which is to kill you on turn 1 with one single card. Affinity can have some good starts, but what aggressive deck doesnt? Its just a very strong aggressive deck, but getting hosed by 1 single card is pretty unfair.
Problem about trying to play anything synergistic in modern is that you get easily wrecked by single cards like this, which is not really a good thing. Someone should not be able to cast one single card and destroy an entire deck. I can see why the pros think this is "skilless" since it is. Your adding 1 card to your deck, casting it, and basically winning the game. There isnt any decision to be made other than putting the 1 card in your deck. I dont see where you can get a skillful game unless you just dont play X deck due to 1 card basically forcing you to scoop.
Players and WotC need to realize that with older formats, change doesn't happen in an instant. It takes months, such is the case with having large card pools.
As far as Modern being a stale format to the pros, and not featuring new cards from sets simply just means what I've read from jimjemasak and shodai said: "we can't run down the field with the best deck, because there is none."
And it is funny reading a lot of the comments about Modern suffering, because you can replace the word 'Modern' with 'Legacy' in every one of them and see the same light Legacy players have been seeing.
And yet there's really no evidence that such a cycle is happening with a deck like modern Affinity. Rather than play something else for a while (or pack more answers), folks are just complaining. =/