Just curious, where have you seen the average foil rare/mythic per box at higher than 1.5? I had thought it was only around 1 per box which is what I've seen for the 4 I've opened...exactly one in each box so far.
Pretty cool that after the 10 boxes you opened, the overall average was still above what they are selling for even considering the dip in value on the cards. That is pretty impressive and I'm not sure you can say the same about any other set available at the moment or upon release (besides perhaps Modern Masters 1). The key I think because of that gamble aspect and high variance is that you may not be able to just open one pack or you will most likely lose, but you need to open enough product to hit those big ticket items and get that value.
Now that all the dust has settled I have to wonder what Wizards thinks about MM2. While the initial rage of the community has fallen there does seem to be a general agreement of disappointment, you have to wonder if they don't feel the same on some of the points players have made.
Coming from a guy that already has his playset, no. Snapcaster does not belong at mythic under any circumstances. WotC already is showing a terrible track record in printing to the demand of this format, and bs like mythic upgrades (Bitterblossom? Seriously?) isn't helping any.
Coming from a guy that already has his playset, no. Snapcaster does not belong at mythic under any circumstances. WotC already is showing a terrible track record in printing to the demand of this format, and bs like mythic upgrades (Bitterblossom? Seriously?) isn't helping any.
These sets are designed for draft, which means Bitterblossom being a mythic was an extremely easy call to make. Nothing would ruin the limited format more than Bitterblossom showing up twice as often as it does now.
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There were no mythics in Morningtide. If there were, Bitterblossom may well have been among them. It was printed at the highest rarity level available at the time. An R->M 'upgrade' of a top-tier rare from a no-Mythics set isn't really an upgrade so much as a normalization.
There were no mythics in Morningtide. If there were, Bitterblossom may well have been among them. It was printed at the highest rarity level available at the time. An R->M 'upgrade' of a top-tier rare from a no-Mythics set isn't really an upgrade so much as a normalization.
Could not disagree with you more. 2 cmc 4-of staples do not belong at mythic, never have, and we as a community just accepted that it happens sometimes (read: often). I was actually playing when they introduced mythic and swore they'd never do stuff like that.
As far as breaking limited, well yeah, but that's the problem with modern masters. It wants to give us reprints AND be a draft set, and this one in particular failed at both pretty bad, in my opinion. I want reprints. I don't care if it feels like a cube draft or it's totally warped because it's top-heavy with good bombs. I want to take what I open and go play Modern, not draft a Modern-like set. If I do (and unfortunately the pros were very much of the same mindset going into the GPs), it's because I have to, or because it's a one-off fun thing to try, like Conspiracy, and then you take your staples from it and pretend the set never existed.
There were no mythics in Morningtide. If there were, Bitterblossom may well have been among them. It was printed at the highest rarity level available at the time. An R->M 'upgrade' of a top-tier rare from a no-Mythics set isn't really an upgrade so much as a normalization.
Could not disagree with you more. 2 cmc 4-of staples do not belong at mythic, never have, and we as a community just accepted that it happens sometimes (read: often). I was actually playing when they introduced mythic and swore they'd never do stuff like that.
As far as breaking limited, well yeah, but that's the problem with modern masters. It wants to give us reprints AND be a draft set, and this one in particular failed at both pretty bad, in my opinion. I want reprints. I don't care if it feels like a cube draft or it's totally warped because it's top-heavy with good bombs. I want to take what I open and go play Modern, not draft a Modern-like set. If I do (and unfortunately the pros were very much of the same mindset going into the GPs), it's because I have to, or because it's a one-off fun thing to try, like Conspiracy, and then you take your staples from it and pretend the set never existed.
Wizards must LOVE that so many people give them the pass on Mythics with the reason "for limited". The real reason behind Mythics is more pack sales for those scarce constructed staples. But the limited players come out of the wood work to defend them. And considering the idea behind modern masters was to get reprints out, in a form that could be played for limited, why does it have to feel just slightly better than a standard limited environment.
For 250% of the cost of standard sets, let it be a unique, power-filled, "cube feeling" draft. It would have been great if they just did the set with the "classic" R/U/C rarity levels. Limited existed back in those days, they could easily give us a taste of that in these sets. But of course that would mean less packs cracked for Goyfs, Bobs, Cliques, etc, so it will never happen...
Agreed.
There is an *extremely* unsettling speculation trend for Modern staples going on.
People are taking advantage of WotC's conservative reprinting approach.
If they don't get more aggressive with reprints,
people will just buy Modern staples instead of stocks,
as they are guaranteed to appreciate as long as people and even companies
buy them up and corner the market.
Just look at Ancient Stirrings-
it's a (very good) Common from just a few years ago,
but there are only a handful of them for sale on eBay-
someone out there has hundreds of them
Hopefully it gets a reprint in Origins or Zendikar II.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Melek, Izzet Paragon Oona, Queen of the Fae Bruna, Light of Alabaster Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Rhys the Redeemed Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord Sen Triplets The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
There were no mythics in Morningtide. If there were, Bitterblossom may well have been among them. It was printed at the highest rarity level available at the time. An R->M 'upgrade' of a top-tier rare from a no-Mythics set isn't really an upgrade so much as a normalization.
Could not disagree with you more. 2 cmc 4-of staples do not belong at mythic, never have, and we as a community just accepted that it happens sometimes (read: often). I was actually playing when they introduced mythic and swore they'd never do stuff like that.
As far as breaking limited, well yeah, but that's the problem with modern masters. It wants to give us reprints AND be a draft set, and this one in particular failed at both pretty bad, in my opinion. I want reprints. I don't care if it feels like a cube draft or it's totally warped because it's top-heavy with good bombs. I want to take what I open and go play Modern, not draft a Modern-like set. If I do (and unfortunately the pros were very much of the same mindset going into the GPs), it's because I have to, or because it's a one-off fun thing to try, like Conspiracy, and then you take your staples from it and pretend the set never existed.
Wizards must LOVE that so many people give them the pass on Mythics with the reason "for limited". The real reason behind Mythics is more pack sales for those scarce constructed staples. But the limited players come out of the wood work to defend them. And considering the idea behind modern masters was to get reprints out, in a form that could be played for limited, why does it have to feel just slightly better than a standard limited environment.
For 250% of the cost of standard sets, let it be a unique, power-filled, "cube feeling" draft. It would have been great if they just did the set with the "classic" R/U/C rarity levels. Limited existed back in those days, they could easily give us a taste of that in these sets. But of course that would mean less packs cracked for Goyfs, Bobs, Cliques, etc, so it will never happen...
I would bet if they got rid of the mythic rarity for a set like this, it would increase sales since the goyf lotto would be easier to win.
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RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
That packaging was shameful. I have so many pack damaged cards from MM15. Not misprints, ******* damage, usually on the back left. I was going to send them in to WOTC but then I heard that if they're out of a certain card, they'll just replace it with any card of that rarity. So my foil Kozilek or foil Iona could be replaced with....foil comet storm.
Now that all the dust has settled I have to wonder what Wizards thinks about MM2. While the initial rage of the community has fallen there does seem to be a general agreement of disappointment, you have to wonder if they don't feel the same on some of the points players have made.
I don't think they give a rat's ass. They sold a ton of dead trees with minimal investment for a lot of profit. All the criticism can be shrugged away as long as people are throwing money at them, which they are.
I wish I had pricing data for modern decks. If the prices are creeping up at the rate they seem to be creeping up, then MM15 is going to be the least of the problems the format is going to face.
That's a pretty naive view. Just because they made money in the short term does not mean that this was a good thing for them. They pissed off a lot of their players, and those players are now highly likely to spend less on magic. Saying that a company which relies heavily on the good will of their player base can release a terrible product and not care so long as it sells for the first week is ludicrous. MM2 has damaged WOTC's reputation (though certainly not irrevocably or unreasonably), and this will hurt them as a company. Your argument is about as good as someone pointing to snow and saying 'see, there's no such thing as climate change!'.
There were no mythics in Morningtide. If there were, Bitterblossom may well have been among them. It was printed at the highest rarity level available at the time. An R->M 'upgrade' of a top-tier rare from a no-Mythics set isn't really an upgrade so much as a normalization.
Could not disagree with you more. 2 cmc 4-of staples do not belong at mythic, never have, and we as a community just accepted that it happens sometimes (read: often). I was actually playing when they introduced mythic and swore they'd never do stuff like that.
As far as breaking limited, well yeah, but that's the problem with modern masters. It wants to give us reprints AND be a draft set, and this one in particular failed at both pretty bad, in my opinion. I want reprints. I don't care if it feels like a cube draft or it's totally warped because it's top-heavy with good bombs. I want to take what I open and go play Modern, not draft a Modern-like set. If I do (and unfortunately the pros were very much of the same mindset going into the GPs), it's because I have to, or because it's a one-off fun thing to try, like Conspiracy, and then you take your staples from it and pretend the set never existed.
Well, if you were actually playing, your memory's off. They said they wouldn't print stuff like Char or Mutavault at mythic. They never said they wouldn't make any 4-ofs mythic. If they never made any chase mythics, then they wouldn't feel very mythic, now would they?
Other than packaging issues, the set was 2 or 3 good rares and 4-5 good commons/uncommons away from being a success, IMO.
Had they dropped Comet Storm (seriously, that card makes the Limited format worse by existing in the set at all, AND it's feelbad to open from a money perspective) for Batterskull, and dropped 2 of the bad rares for Horizon Canopy and Grove of the Burnwillows, dropped an uncommon for Eternal Witness, another for Lightning Helix, and a common for Serum Visions, the set would have been a home run.
Other than packaging issues, the set was 2 or 3 good rares and 4-5 good commons/uncommons away from being a success, IMO.
Had they dropped Comet Storm (seriously, that card makes the Limited format worse by existing in the set at all, AND it's feelbad to open from a money perspective) for Batterskull, and dropped 2 of the bad rares for Horizon Canopy and Grove of the Burnwillows, dropped an uncommon for Eternal Witness, another for Lightning Helix, and a common for Serum Visions, the set would have been a home run.
Completely agree with you here. Malignus would have been a better mythic than comet storm, and it would have given UR elementals a sweet mythic, but I think Furyborn Hellkite would have been much cooler. I also think Serum Visions would have been fine at uncommon, but agree that Lightning Helix needed a reprint. Having a repirnt of all the future sight lands would have been nice.
And before I forget, drop Surgical Extraction, and put in Damnation! #saltylikefrenchfries
To be honest some of the anecdotal posts are flimsy at best; said cards and their "perceived" value are at where they are due to massive speculation. Do we truly think a card like Karn is worth ~$40?
I'm glad that some of you opened and covered, if not more than covered. Had we not have speculators and giant-gobbling companies, Karn and the like would probably be halved their values. Modern Masters as a product may not be that expensive.
Having said that, totally agree with varyag and empathogen. This "fight" is a losing one.
To be honest some of the anecdotal posts are flimsy at best; said cards and their "perceived" value are at where they are due to massive speculation. Do we truly think a card like Karn is worth ~$40?
I'm glad that some of you opened and covered, if not more than covered. Had we not have speculators and giant-gobbling companies, Karn and the like would probably be halved their values. Modern Masters as a product may not be that expensive.
Having said that, totally agree with varyag and empathogen. This "fight" is a losing one.
Unfortunately mythics like Karn would only lose half its value if Modern Masters was printed like any normal set. As long as it is limited print most cards like Karn will only get a 20%-30% decrease and start climbing back up.
To be honest some of the anecdotal posts are flimsy at best; said cards and their "perceived" value are at where they are due to massive speculation. Do we truly think a card like Karn is worth ~$40?
I'm glad that some of you opened and covered, if not more than covered. Had we not have speculators and giant-gobbling companies, Karn and the like would probably be halved their values. Modern Masters as a product may not be that expensive.
Having said that, totally agree with varyag and empathogen. This "fight" is a losing one.
Unfortunately mythics like Karn would only lose half its value if Modern Masters was printed like any normal set. As long as it is limited print most cards like Karn will only get a 20%-30% decrease and start climbing back up.
Welcome to Modern. The only format in magic where the more that gets reprinted, the more the average deck cost goes up.
I have never felt so bad for new players than I do right now. I thought it couldn't get worse since the spikes after Richmond. I never imagined a world where 5 printings of Path to Exile and another on the way would somehow make an uncommon rise to $10 from 6 a few weeks ago. It's gotten to the point new players are looking at my 3 year old deck like I just broke out Vintage with Power....because it's 'worth' 8 times more than what I bought it for. $12 Probes? $100 Snaps?
For the sake of the format, I truly hope the speculation bubble bursts soon, while we can still get players interested in actually playing.
To be honest some of the anecdotal posts are flimsy at best; said cards and their "perceived" value are at where they are due to massive speculation. Do we truly think a card like Karn is worth ~$40?
I'm glad that some of you opened and covered, if not more than covered. Had we not have speculators and giant-gobbling companies, Karn and the like would probably be halved their values. Modern Masters as a product may not be that expensive.
Having said that, totally agree with varyag and empathogen. This "fight" is a losing one.
Unfortunately mythics like Karn would only lose half its value if Modern Masters was printed like any normal set. As long as it is limited print most cards like Karn will only get a 20%-30% decrease and start climbing back up.
Welcome to Modern. The only format in magic where the more that gets reprinted, the more the average deck cost goes up.
I have never felt so bad for new players than I do right now. I thought it couldn't get worse since the spikes after Richmond. I never imagined a world where 5 printings of Path to Exile and another on the way would somehow make an uncommon rise to $10 from 6 a few weeks ago. It's gotten to the point new players are looking at my 3 year old deck like I just broke out Vintage with Power....because it's 'worth' 8 times more than what I bought it for. $12 Probes? $100 Snaps?
For the sake of the format, I truly hope the speculation bubble bursts soon, while we can still get players interested in actually playing.
Path's price going up isn't surprising. Pretty much everything that is played enough that wasn't printed in MM2 shot up, and in Path's and Vision's case a promo isn't going to bring down its price. If WotC wants the prices to go down on staples then they need to be more active when it comes to reprinting them. Even putting one reprint in something like a Duel Deck, Event Deck (Modern or Standard), Commander, and some normal Standard sets would be enough to help curb some of the prices on some cards until the next MM.
For those that say Wizards isn't at fault, they are as guilty as speculators.
For everytime they make an opinion/statement; for e.g. "Snapcaster is too powerful for Standard", "Goyf is too good, so is Bob", "Path was a mistake", "Liliana would break the format"; we know that these words spell the death of such cards being reprinted in a normal set ever again.
Watering down the Standard format also meant that there was a shift in dynamics. It meant that the pools of previous years would become more and more powerful, which meant that such cards were gonna get more and more expensive. Speculators and large TCG companies are definitely gonna exploit this portion of the field.
For every Thoughseize-level card we get for Standard, I reckon about 5-7 more needy cards that demands for a dip in prices. The reprint policy is definitely too conservative; too little reprints are introduced per Standard block.
Want to sell Standard? Make more modern cards available for Standard. Not just the obligatory Thoughtseize per year. I believe a reasonable amount would be 5-7 cards per Standard block.
The other option, as I've reiterated before, make MM an annual product.
Pretty cool that after the 10 boxes you opened, the overall average was still above what they are selling for even considering the dip in value on the cards. That is pretty impressive and I'm not sure you can say the same about any other set available at the moment or upon release (besides perhaps Modern Masters 1). The key I think because of that gamble aspect and high variance is that you may not be able to just open one pack or you will most likely lose, but you need to open enough product to hit those big ticket items and get that value.
1.) Remove Vendilion Clique, replace with Snapcaster Mage
2.) Remove Dark Confidant, replace with Liliana of the Veil
Coming from a guy that already has his playset, no. Snapcaster does not belong at mythic under any circumstances. WotC already is showing a terrible track record in printing to the demand of this format, and bs like mythic upgrades (Bitterblossom? Seriously?) isn't helping any.
These sets are designed for draft, which means Bitterblossom being a mythic was an extremely easy call to make. Nothing would ruin the limited format more than Bitterblossom showing up twice as often as it does now.
Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded.
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Could not disagree with you more. 2 cmc 4-of staples do not belong at mythic, never have, and we as a community just accepted that it happens sometimes (read: often). I was actually playing when they introduced mythic and swore they'd never do stuff like that.
As far as breaking limited, well yeah, but that's the problem with modern masters. It wants to give us reprints AND be a draft set, and this one in particular failed at both pretty bad, in my opinion. I want reprints. I don't care if it feels like a cube draft or it's totally warped because it's top-heavy with good bombs. I want to take what I open and go play Modern, not draft a Modern-like set. If I do (and unfortunately the pros were very much of the same mindset going into the GPs), it's because I have to, or because it's a one-off fun thing to try, like Conspiracy, and then you take your staples from it and pretend the set never existed.
I just wish Wizards stop caring so much about limited and start printing some "90% good stuff" set. I mean, it'd sell like water.
I secretly ship Ral x Jace... and Nissa x Chandra... :">I would have been happy with about 5% more good stuff, just to make it feel good.
Wizards must LOVE that so many people give them the pass on Mythics with the reason "for limited". The real reason behind Mythics is more pack sales for those scarce constructed staples. But the limited players come out of the wood work to defend them. And considering the idea behind modern masters was to get reprints out, in a form that could be played for limited, why does it have to feel just slightly better than a standard limited environment.
For 250% of the cost of standard sets, let it be a unique, power-filled, "cube feeling" draft. It would have been great if they just did the set with the "classic" R/U/C rarity levels. Limited existed back in those days, they could easily give us a taste of that in these sets. But of course that would mean less packs cracked for Goyfs, Bobs, Cliques, etc, so it will never happen...
Agreed.
There is an *extremely* unsettling speculation trend for Modern staples going on.
People are taking advantage of WotC's conservative reprinting approach.
If they don't get more aggressive with reprints,
people will just buy Modern staples instead of stocks,
as they are guaranteed to appreciate as long as people and even companies
buy them up and corner the market.
Just look at Ancient Stirrings-
it's a (very good) Common from just a few years ago,
but there are only a handful of them for sale on eBay-
someone out there has hundreds of them
Hopefully it gets a reprint in Origins or Zendikar II.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I would bet if they got rid of the mythic rarity for a set like this, it would increase sales since the goyf lotto would be easier to win.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
That's a pretty naive view. Just because they made money in the short term does not mean that this was a good thing for them. They pissed off a lot of their players, and those players are now highly likely to spend less on magic. Saying that a company which relies heavily on the good will of their player base can release a terrible product and not care so long as it sells for the first week is ludicrous. MM2 has damaged WOTC's reputation (though certainly not irrevocably or unreasonably), and this will hurt them as a company. Your argument is about as good as someone pointing to snow and saying 'see, there's no such thing as climate change!'.
between the 3 boxes i've received 11 mythics
2 Mox Opals
2 Ulamogs
1 Dark Confidant
2 Elesh Norns(1 of which is a Foil)
1 Goyf
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Karn (foil)
1 Kiki-Jiki
that averages out for my small sample set to be just above 3.5 mythics per box
and only 1 box had just enough value to cover its cost. the other two boxes were $350-$450 boxes with all the other high value rares
i may be lucky i suppose but i haven't seen the unluckiness that many have referred to except for people buying a few packs here and there
Well, if you were actually playing, your memory's off. They said they wouldn't print stuff like Char or Mutavault at mythic. They never said they wouldn't make any 4-ofs mythic. If they never made any chase mythics, then they wouldn't feel very mythic, now would they?
Had they dropped Comet Storm (seriously, that card makes the Limited format worse by existing in the set at all, AND it's feelbad to open from a money perspective) for Batterskull, and dropped 2 of the bad rares for Horizon Canopy and Grove of the Burnwillows, dropped an uncommon for Eternal Witness, another for Lightning Helix, and a common for Serum Visions, the set would have been a home run.
Completely agree with you here. Malignus would have been a better mythic than comet storm, and it would have given UR elementals a sweet mythic, but I think Furyborn Hellkite would have been much cooler. I also think Serum Visions would have been fine at uncommon, but agree that Lightning Helix needed a reprint. Having a repirnt of all the future sight lands would have been nice.
And before I forget, drop Surgical Extraction, and put in Damnation! #saltylikefrenchfries
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I'm glad that some of you opened and covered, if not more than covered. Had we not have speculators and giant-gobbling companies, Karn and the like would probably be halved their values. Modern Masters as a product may not be that expensive.
Having said that, totally agree with varyag and empathogen. This "fight" is a losing one.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Unfortunately mythics like Karn would only lose half its value if Modern Masters was printed like any normal set. As long as it is limited print most cards like Karn will only get a 20%-30% decrease and start climbing back up.
Welcome to Modern. The only format in magic where the more that gets reprinted, the more the average deck cost goes up.
I have never felt so bad for new players than I do right now. I thought it couldn't get worse since the spikes after Richmond. I never imagined a world where 5 printings of Path to Exile and another on the way would somehow make an uncommon rise to $10 from 6 a few weeks ago. It's gotten to the point new players are looking at my 3 year old deck like I just broke out Vintage with Power....because it's 'worth' 8 times more than what I bought it for. $12 Probes? $100 Snaps?
For the sake of the format, I truly hope the speculation bubble bursts soon, while we can still get players interested in actually playing.
Path's price going up isn't surprising. Pretty much everything that is played enough that wasn't printed in MM2 shot up, and in Path's and Vision's case a promo isn't going to bring down its price. If WotC wants the prices to go down on staples then they need to be more active when it comes to reprinting them. Even putting one reprint in something like a Duel Deck, Event Deck (Modern or Standard), Commander, and some normal Standard sets would be enough to help curb some of the prices on some cards until the next MM.
For everytime they make an opinion/statement; for e.g. "Snapcaster is too powerful for Standard", "Goyf is too good, so is Bob", "Path was a mistake", "Liliana would break the format"; we know that these words spell the death of such cards being reprinted in a normal set ever again.
Watering down the Standard format also meant that there was a shift in dynamics. It meant that the pools of previous years would become more and more powerful, which meant that such cards were gonna get more and more expensive. Speculators and large TCG companies are definitely gonna exploit this portion of the field.
For every Thoughseize-level card we get for Standard, I reckon about 5-7 more needy cards that demands for a dip in prices. The reprint policy is definitely too conservative; too little reprints are introduced per Standard block.
Want to sell Standard? Make more modern cards available for Standard. Not just the obligatory Thoughtseize per year. I believe a reasonable amount would be 5-7 cards per Standard block.
The other option, as I've reiterated before, make MM an annual product.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG