Too add to my original rant, if were paying 360+ dollars per box (most likely much higher in retail) and were not even getting tarmogoyfs and bobs then whats even the point of it all?
two cards. TWO CARDS. calm down. you will be getting value from these packs. you're over reacting and you've only seen two cards.
So should we expect one of these every two years? And should we expect a price increase every year? It wouldn't be that big of a deal if they were actually going to sell for MSRP.
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Very recently a local LGS had a Modern Masters draft costing $75 a person to play. They had to turn people away.
$10 a pack and $40 drafts are going to do just fine.
You say that as if these MM2 packs will be sold at MSRP at most places. That wasn't true of MM1 I doubt that will be true of MM2 unless they really bump up the print run.
MM packs were $12-$15 by me loose. Drafts were $35 with 1 pack per player of MM added to the prize pool.
If the card selection is anywhere near what it was for MM for this product, I expect packs to be between $20-$25 loose and drafts to be at the $40 mark.
The key is the card selection. If there is little to no way people can break even or make a few bucks, dont expect it to sell well. But as long as there are a handful of high dollar cards, people will play the lottery.
Although it has been confirmed to be limited print run, printing two more language versions does increase the supply.
However, Nate Price said it was more than MM1's, but we don't know if it included the two other languages (total supply run). I'm still not sold on this statement.
It better be a value product. Nobody likes opening Auriok Salvagers at $10 a pop....
So is there any reasonable and grounded in fact and not speculation reason that people think MM increases the price of cards? Do not site current prices. There is 0 proof that the increase in price was anything but natural increase in demand/stores pushing the upper limit on what people will pay.
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So is there any reasonable and grounded in fact and not speculation reason that people think MM increases the price of cards? Do not site current prices. There is 0 proof that the increase in price was anything but natural increase in demand/stores pushing the upper limit on what people will pay.
If you look at graphs of pricing when MM came out (something I dont have at the moment) it shows a slight dip in pricing for the higher priced cards and then a steady increase in price in a very short time, like 2-4 weeks. Example Goyf dipped to the $90 range about a week after MM was released and was well on its way to $200 with in the next few weeks. Bob dipped to the $35-$40 range with the release of MM and then was a solid $60-$70 card before MM was out of print. Cryptic dipped to the $30-$35 range before shooting up to the $50 range. V.Clique dipped to the $30 range then shot up to the $50 range.
The thinking is the reprints make the cards more wanted so increasing the demand at the same time not really effecting the supply. This is especially true of the mythics.
As with MM, MM2015 will not be printed enough to affect prices very much. If demand for Modern cards stays high, players and speculators will simply buy up the supply that MM2015 will add to the secondary market.
We need to see the full card list and then calculate what the expected value (EV) of opening a random pack is, based on card prices at that point. If the EV is calculated at something like $5, then I expect players to think very hard before buying packs.
Can't say I like where this is going. 8$ MSRP was already high enough. Now we're getting 10$ a pack, and it's still a limited run. Eesh. And I thought MM1 got out of hand. Oh well, I'll pass. I feel like I'm already dumping way too much money into little pieces of cardboard. I'm not about to go nuts and spend 350 bones on a booster box.
Can't say I like where this is going. 8$ MSRP was already high enough. Now we're getting 10$ a pack, and it's still a limited run. Eesh. And I thought MM1 got out of hand. Oh well, I'll pass. I feel like I'm already dumping way too much money into little pieces of cardboard. I'm not about to go nuts and spend 350 bones on a booster box.
Yeah, at those prices, maybe I'll just go buy a video game console.
The Higher MSRP is just Wizards trying to take a little more of the pot as they already saw that MM was selling for $15-$20 a pack. It is greed pure and simple, which I am fine with as greed just as strong as a motivator as anything else. I feel it will be Wizards greed that will finally be the death or the reserve list. If this is the price we have to pay for that to happen so be it.
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The Higher MSRP is just Wizards trying to take a little more of the pot as they already saw that MM was selling for $15-$20 a pack. It is greed pure and simple, which I am fine with as greed just as strong as a motivator as anything else. I feel it will be Wizards greed that will finally be the death or the reserve list. If this is the price we have to pay for that to happen so be it.
I dont understand how the prices of MM boosters affects the reserve list for Legacy but ok. Overall i do agree with you in the sense that the 10 dollar per pack is deceptive, wouldn't be surprised if it hit 25 ish for retail per pack, the box prices are going to be ludicrous.
I think overall everyone has known for a while that the booster pack lottery is basically a trap no matter how u look at it, in the case of MM2 I think its going to be even more the case, if I'm paying 20 bucks for a booster and get something like an etched champion, while its not a bad card by any means, im still going to feel like an idiot. At least with normal boosters its just 3 bucks so even if you brick its not the end of the world but this is kinda messed up.
$10 seems pretty fair for such a high-valued set. My only concern is about LGS actually selling them for that price. It all depends on availability (I hope at least this they learned from MM1) and the money cards the set has.
Wizards could make de MRSP to be $0.50, but packs would still be sold for $10+
Also, what are they realistically going to add from Kamigawa block? Jitte is banned and pretty much everything else is bunk. (Hoping for Twincast with sick new art though for sure)
Mythic dragon reprint confirmed!
Probably Goryos Vengeance and flames of the blood hand too.
- It is important to note packs will be $9.99 MSRP compared to $6.99 for the original Modern Masters.
- Also they called this version "Modern Masters 2015". This kind of makes me think they're going to be using it gain value off the more expensive cards in the secondary market year after year. They may add new stuff to it from newer sets each year, but long term it seems like they're setting it up to basically sell sets off the most expensive cards from year to year to gain value they don't typically get through the secondary market.
*EDIT* I'm saying it seems like cards like Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant, Vendillion Clique, Cryptic Command etc all get reprints. If they're charging $10, there is going to need to be more value than just the $50 cards from the new sets.
As a side, I'm curious if they'll reprint Jace the Mind Sculptor or Umezuwa's Jitte even though they're banned in modern right now. Still could be a way to push cards out that are played in Legacy.
This is crazy. I may sit this one out.
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two cards. TWO CARDS. calm down. you will be getting value from these packs. you're over reacting and you've only seen two cards.
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There are no basic lands at all. It has a guaranteed foil in every pack in place of the basic, just like MM1.
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MM packs were $12-$15 by me loose. Drafts were $35 with 1 pack per player of MM added to the prize pool.
If the card selection is anywhere near what it was for MM for this product, I expect packs to be between $20-$25 loose and drafts to be at the $40 mark.
The key is the card selection. If there is little to no way people can break even or make a few bucks, dont expect it to sell well. But as long as there are a handful of high dollar cards, people will play the lottery.
However, Nate Price said it was more than MM1's, but we don't know if it included the two other languages (total supply run). I'm still not sold on this statement.
It better be a value product. Nobody likes opening Auriok Salvagers at $10 a pop....
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
If you look at graphs of pricing when MM came out (something I dont have at the moment) it shows a slight dip in pricing for the higher priced cards and then a steady increase in price in a very short time, like 2-4 weeks. Example Goyf dipped to the $90 range about a week after MM was released and was well on its way to $200 with in the next few weeks. Bob dipped to the $35-$40 range with the release of MM and then was a solid $60-$70 card before MM was out of print. Cryptic dipped to the $30-$35 range before shooting up to the $50 range. V.Clique dipped to the $30 range then shot up to the $50 range.
The thinking is the reprints make the cards more wanted so increasing the demand at the same time not really effecting the supply. This is especially true of the mythics.
We need to see the full card list and then calculate what the expected value (EV) of opening a random pack is, based on card prices at that point. If the EV is calculated at something like $5, then I expect players to think very hard before buying packs.
Yeah, at those prices, maybe I'll just go buy a video game console.
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
GBW Melira Pod
GB Rock
GR Tron
UR Storm
UR Delver
UR Twin
RUG Twin
UWR Twin
UWR Kiki Control
UWR Control
UWR Midrange
URWB Affinity
GRW Zoo
R Burn
I dont understand how the prices of MM boosters affects the reserve list for Legacy but ok. Overall i do agree with you in the sense that the 10 dollar per pack is deceptive, wouldn't be surprised if it hit 25 ish for retail per pack, the box prices are going to be ludicrous.
Its totally a 1. It is clearly a single vertical line. Emrakul is 001/249.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Wizards could make de MRSP to be $0.50, but packs would still be sold for $10+
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Probably Goryos Vengeance and flames of the blood hand too.
- Also they called this version "Modern Masters 2015". This kind of makes me think they're going to be using it gain value off the more expensive cards in the secondary market year after year. They may add new stuff to it from newer sets each year, but long term it seems like they're setting it up to basically sell sets off the most expensive cards from year to year to gain value they don't typically get through the secondary market.
*EDIT* I'm saying it seems like cards like Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant, Vendillion Clique, Cryptic Command etc all get reprints. If they're charging $10, there is going to need to be more value than just the $50 cards from the new sets.
As a side, I'm curious if they'll reprint Jace the Mind Sculptor or Umezuwa's Jitte even though they're banned in modern right now. Still could be a way to push cards out that are played in Legacy.