I don't think Pod deserved to be banned. But I do understand their concern about tutors that go directly into play. They only grow stronger with time, and if it wasn't banned this year, it would only become more likely to be banned next year.
RIP Pod, I'll never regret the four beautiful years and many games we won together.
There is a common theme among all three Modern bannings: Cheating mana. Dredge and Phyrexian are both too strong in most cases compared to playing fair.
I look forward to my Skred Red sideboard getting to forget about Pod decks and put in EVEN MORE affinity and Tron hate
Treasure Cruise - was fun while it lasted, but we all saw this coming and it's for the best.
Dig Through Time - I could take it or leave it. I do love me some combo and control deck support.
Birthing Pod - lolwut? You're drunk, WotC. If you play the top deck in Modern, rest assured that it's going to get neutered and that's a when not an if. Let's just all play our one card per turn and make efficient trades on the board, because that's what WotC is going to allow in this game of Hearthstone... I mean MTG.
Think they did a good job with the banlist, although a little surprised Grave-Troll came off. It's one of those cards that can only do unfair things. It's either not going to see play, or it's going to be in some completely broken graveyard combo deck. It's not like anyone is actually going to be casting GGTs.
Also don't understand the restriction of Cruise in Vintage. I wish they would just get over it already and allow blue draw spells back into the format. In a format that you want to do broken things with Yawgmoth's Will, Cruise isn't that over powered. I think it's on a similar power level as Gush.
Yeah I want them to make new and exciting cards, but they have to be responsible.
Printing both TC and DDT in the same expansion and same color shows they are way too much short-sighted.
Also don't understand the restriction of Cruise in Vintage. I wish they would just get over it already and allow blue draw spells back into the format. In a format that you want to do broken things with Yawgmoth's Will, Cruise isn't that over powered. I think it's on a similar power level as Gush.
It's not about making blue bad at drawing cards; it's about diversity. If they unrestrict blue draw engines, then everyone gravitates towards the best one. Back in the day, it was Gush. Everyone played 4 Gush. Then it was Brainstorm. Then it was Thirst. Now it's Treasure Cruise. Blue draw spells get axed when they start making your choice for you and preventing you from having options.
Yeah I want them to make new and exciting cards, but they have to be responsible.
Printing both TC and DDT in the same expansion and same color shows they are way too much short-sighted.
You're absolutely right. we need more bannable cards printed in red
Last weekend's SCG Legacy Open was won by a version of Temur Delver running Kird Ape in place of Nimble Mongoose specifically so it could run Cruise. It was a celestial alignment unlikely to ever happen again after the banning.
Pod was banned? Really? I don't think they've completely killed an archetype in Modern that way before. That is brutal.
Cruise getting banned was probably inevitable but what was DTT hurting?
They killed Eggs and Jund with the ban of 1 card.
Jund was hit with the Punishing Fire ban. Then it came back. Then it was hit with the Bloodbraid Elf ban. Then it came back. Then it was it with the Deathrite Shaman ban. Then it came back. The only reason it is dead now is that Wizards made Junk better.
To paraphrase Mark Twain, "If you think Jund is dead, just a wait a minute."
But as for Pod, I didn't see it coming. I was never planning on building the deck, but I'm speechless. I should be happy that without Cruise my beloved Twin will be back in business, but at what cost?
lol ban goyf and bolt? are you serious? if that were to happen wizards should just erase modern from existence. thats like saying lets ban cryptic command. or bob. or lingering souls. or geist. none of these cards warp the format around them. they are just good magic cards plain and simple. neither goyf nor bolt are as oppressive as you're making them out to be.
Damn! I told everyone I knew that Tc and dig would get banned and even said that pod should get the treatment as well. Was really expecting bloodbraid to come off the list though. Oh well. Now the meta game is a complete mystery for the pro tour! Wonder what kind of surprises will arise?
Bloodbraid will likely never come off the list. It is way to much value in one card. It's very similar to Deathrite Shaman. It does just a little bit too much for what they want Modern to be.
As far as the bans are concerned:
Cruise/Dig in Modern was not at all unexpected, even to someone who only has a vague understanding of Modern. Particularly Cruise. Ancestral Recall is always bonked out, regardless if you have to delve for it or not. Dig likely made combo a bit too consistent as well. Pod I've heard rumblings about, and is a "fair" deck that does horribly unfair things. Meaning that it doesn't combo to instant win, but instead just gets incredible value out of near broken interactions. I'm guessing it was to large a part of the scene, and too difficult to actually hate out for most decks. Similar, but more readily apparent, than Deathite Shaman. Too much value, too much shenanigans you can pull off, and little in the way of actually stopping it from doing its thing. Golgari Grave-Troll unbanning isn't unsurprising either; with not a lot of ways to bring heavy hitte back on the cheap, it's pretty fair. Also lacks some of the integral pieces that makes Dredge in Legacy work. Plenty of hate for the deck also that people already run, and ruins it. I expect a fair number of people to lose game 1 to Dredge lists, but simply crush it post sideboard.
For Legacy: Cruise was certainly dominating pretty hard, even though Legacy could "handle" it. Simply put, Ancestral Recalling easily is not something they want, however. Ancestral Visions is fine, as the only way to "cheat" it is with Cascade, and waiting 4 turns is likely backbreaking a good number of times. Recalling at will is an entirely different story. A lot of games came down to nothing more than who cruised first, and I can see how that wasn't something they wanted. Still, I think Legacy *could* have handled cruise, as the meta game has slowly been adapting to it. But it's understandable as to why they didn't want it around anymore. Worldgorger unbanning is neat; it was banned a long time ago, when legacy was a very different format with different things going on. Its combo is no worse or more difficult to deal with than any number of combo decks that exist now, and likely is more easily dealt with than those others anyway. So yep.
Vintage: I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
Damn! I told everyone I knew that Tc and dig would get banned and even said that pod should get the treatment as well. Was really expecting bloodbraid to come off the list though. Oh well. Now the meta game is a complete mystery for the pro tour! Wonder what kind of surprises will arise?
Bloodbraid will likely never come off the list. It is way to much value in one card. It's very similar to Deathrite Shaman. It does just a little bit too much for what they want Modern to be.
As far as the bans are concerned:
Cruise/Dig in Modern was not at all unexpected, even to someone who only has a vague understanding of Modern. Particularly Cruise. Ancestral Recall is always bonked out, regardless if you have to delve for it or not. Dig likely made combo a bit too consistent as well. Pod I've heard rumblings about, and is a "fair" deck that does horribly unfair things. Meaning that it doesn't combo to instant win, but instead just gets incredible value out of near broken interactions. I'm guessing it was to large a part of the scene, and too difficult to actually hate out for most decks. Similar, but more readily apparent, than Deathite Shaman. Too much value, too much shenanigans you can pull off, and little in the way of actually stopping it from doing its thing. Golgari Grave-Troll unbanning isn't unsurprising either; with not a lot of ways to bring heavy hitte back on the cheap, it's pretty fair. Also lacks some of the integral pieces that makes Dredge in Legacy work. Plenty of hate for the deck also that people already run, and ruins it. I expect a fair number of people to lose game 1 to Dredge lists, but simply crush it post sideboard.
For Legacy: Cruise was certainly dominating pretty hard, even though Legacy could "handle" it. Simply put, Ancestral Recalling easily is not something they want, however. Ancestral Visions is fine, as the only way to "cheat" it is with Cascade, and waiting 4 turns is likely backbreaking a good number of times. Recalling at will is an entirely different story. A lot of games came down to nothing more than who cruised first, and I can see how that wasn't something they wanted. Still, I think Legacy *could* have handled cruise, as the meta game has slowly been adapting to it. But it's understandable as to why they didn't want it around anymore. Worldgorger unbanning is neat; it was banned a long time ago, when legacy was a very different format with different things going on. Its combo is no worse or more difficult to deal with than any number of combo decks that exist now, and likely is more easily dealt with than those others anyway. So yep.
Vintage: I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
Bloodbraid Elf is a Siege Rhino with a worse body and slightly better effect. It is completely fine.
Last weekend's SCG Legacy Open was won by a version of Temur Delver running Kird Ape in place of Nimble Mongoose specifically so it could run Cruise. It was a celestial alignment unlikely to ever happen again after the banning.
I think this is the biggest problem with banning TC in Legacy, and that's that the format has (slowly) been adapting to its presence, as well as taking different avenues of deck building that haven't been explored before. The real problem, I feel, is that a lot of games just come down to who cruises first. And the first cruise feeds then next, which feeds the next, and feeds the fourth. It snowballs pretty hard in the format. So although I think Legacy *can* handle, it does contort the format and play around a single card.
Bloodbraid Elf is a Siege Rhino with a worse body and slightly better effect. It is completely fine.
It likely is, particularly now that Deathrite can't ramp it out early and often (Which from my very limited understanding was part of the problem; even though the two were legal for a short time, the fact that Jund had so much value so quickly really made it difficult). But just from viewing the B&R lists, and seeing logic of bannings, high-value cards are not where they want Modern to be. I think the format could probably handle it, but I wasn't really commenting on what I think about the card, only what Wizards seems to want Modern to be. And I don't see a Modern with Bloodbraid in it in the foreseeable future.
Bloodbraid Elf is a Siege Rhino with a worse body and slightly better effect. It is completely fine.
It likely is, particularly now that Deathrite can't ramp it out early and often (Which from my very limited understanding was part of the problem; even though the two were legal for a short time, the fact that Jund had so much value so quickly really made it difficult). But just from viewing the B&R lists, and seeing logic of bannings, high-value cards are not where they want Modern to be. I think the format could probably handle it, but I wasn't really commenting on what I think about the card, only what Wizards seems to want Modern to be. And I don't see a Modern with Bloodbraid in it in the foreseeable future.
Then there will be an inconsistent banlist until they ban Siege Rhino. Unbanning Bloodbraid Elf seems more likely.
Once again, WotC proves how much their vision of Modern sucks. The first mistake they made with modern was picking it as the new non rotating format instead of overextended. The closer to legacy light the format becomes the better it will be. Banning things for power level is backwards. Every B&R list should start with pulling multiple cards off the list until there is nothing left then let the format shake itself out for a year unless something truly becomes oppresive and impossible to deal with. The next modern masters set should include cards to introduce to the card pool w/o having to put them in standard first such as force of will, brainstorm, hymn to tourach, cabal therapy, price of progress, wasteland, rishidan port, ancient tomb, and swords to plowshares.
I'm pretty tired of modern being a format with a powerlevel less than the old extended that had a smaller card pool to choose from. Every ban just pushes us closer and closer to standard 2.0.
That said, these bans are completely unsurprising considering the established patterns. Anyone who didn't see the pod ban coming wasn't paying attention. People have been calling out Pod as a potential ban for over a year now. I think that the only reason it missed the last round was because WotC wanted to see if TC would keep it down. It didn't, and instead pushed out decks that pod had trouble with, so when TC and DTT got the axe for having too great a share of the metagame, they finally decided to follow through on banning pod. The only surprise to me here is that they didn't choose to test out ancestral visions for the very short time before the next B&R announcement. It is about time the troll came off the list. That card had no business being there even using their philosophies.
Think they did a good job with the banlist, although a little surprised Grave-Troll came off. It's one of those cards that can only do unfair things. It's either not going to see play, or it's going to be in some completely broken graveyard combo deck. It's not like anyone is actually going to be casting GGTs.
Actually, the deck that might want him (dredgevine) should be happy to cast him from time to time. That said, he is unlikely to make much of a splash. Dread return is the best payoff card for dredge and it remains firmly on the banned list, and cabal therapy doesn't exist in modern to protect the yard.
If pod restricts design space, Goyf is even worse. It suffocates any creatures chance to see play, if it is a twodrop meant for beatdown.
I would join you, but there is no chance WotC bans an expensive card.
It is much easier to ban TC, a common everybody can afford, than a 200$ monster now every deck has to play. Yeah: They literally banned every deck that's not playing goyf and isn't a mindless combodeck with no-interaction gameplay.
If they had the balls, they ban Goyf and Bolt and we actually would have had a new format. Now we have less than we had before KtK.
Affinity doesn't play goyf and nothing from it got banned.
I'm surprised that people are actually surprised by the ban of birthing pod. Someone said that it wasn't on the watchlist - and I say - what? It's probably been on the watchlist for the last 2 years, and I'm honestly surprised that it's taken this long to get the axe. Let's not forget that there was more than one pod archtype, there's like 4 or 5 (angel pod, kiki-pod, melira-pod, rhino-pod, and various mixes/hybrids of them together). I suspect that some deck will emerge from the ashes, as I can say from experience that probably half the games I won with the deck were without ever drawing a pod, just a lot of value cards getting it done. At least now I don't have to get angry when my turn 2 pod plan is denied by a bolt to my birds.
While DTT is powerful, I wasn't even aware that it was getting run in any significant numbers in modern. Some people are saying it's preemptive, but I don't really see this ban changing anything. TC getting banned sort of just resets the format a bit, sans pod. I can't be the only one who dabbled with U/R delver before TC was even a thing - the deck had been putting up impressive numbers online for awhile before that card even came out.
I'm a bit surprised by DTT getting banned, the other two not so much. I really thought DTT wasn't seeing all that much play, and that it's existence would keep Tarmo in check.
RIP Pod, I'll never regret the four beautiful years and many games we won together.
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I look forward to my Skred Red sideboard getting to forget about Pod decks and put in EVEN MORE affinity and Tron hate
I don't understand. Do you mean it was really strong because of its match-ups against Pod and Cruise decks...?
Treasure Cruise - was fun while it lasted, but we all saw this coming and it's for the best.
Dig Through Time - I could take it or leave it. I do love me some combo and control deck support.
Birthing Pod - lolwut? You're drunk, WotC. If you play the top deck in Modern, rest assured that it's going to get neutered and that's a when not an if. Let's just all play our one card per turn and make efficient trades on the board, because that's what WotC is going to allow in this game of Hearthstone... I mean MTG.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Also don't understand the restriction of Cruise in Vintage. I wish they would just get over it already and allow blue draw spells back into the format. In a format that you want to do broken things with Yawgmoth's Will, Cruise isn't that over powered. I think it's on a similar power level as Gush.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Printing both TC and DDT in the same expansion and same color shows they are way too much short-sighted.
It's not about making blue bad at drawing cards; it's about diversity. If they unrestrict blue draw engines, then everyone gravitates towards the best one. Back in the day, it was Gush. Everyone played 4 Gush. Then it was Brainstorm. Then it was Thirst. Now it's Treasure Cruise. Blue draw spells get axed when they start making your choice for you and preventing you from having options.
Damn, though, that's a lot of fun cards and well-built decks that just got destroyed. Nobody wants to play Golgari Grave-Troll, either...
To paraphrase Mark Twain, "If you think Jund is dead, just a wait a minute."
But as for Pod, I didn't see it coming. I was never planning on building the deck, but I'm speechless. I should be happy that without Cruise my beloved Twin will be back in business, but at what cost?
Jund
Kiki Chord
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Pauper:
Kuldotha Jeskai
Bloodbraid will likely never come off the list. It is way to much value in one card. It's very similar to Deathrite Shaman. It does just a little bit too much for what they want Modern to be.
As far as the bans are concerned:
Cruise/Dig in Modern was not at all unexpected, even to someone who only has a vague understanding of Modern. Particularly Cruise. Ancestral Recall is always bonked out, regardless if you have to delve for it or not. Dig likely made combo a bit too consistent as well. Pod I've heard rumblings about, and is a "fair" deck that does horribly unfair things. Meaning that it doesn't combo to instant win, but instead just gets incredible value out of near broken interactions. I'm guessing it was to large a part of the scene, and too difficult to actually hate out for most decks. Similar, but more readily apparent, than Deathite Shaman. Too much value, too much shenanigans you can pull off, and little in the way of actually stopping it from doing its thing. Golgari Grave-Troll unbanning isn't unsurprising either; with not a lot of ways to bring heavy hitte back on the cheap, it's pretty fair. Also lacks some of the integral pieces that makes Dredge in Legacy work. Plenty of hate for the deck also that people already run, and ruins it. I expect a fair number of people to lose game 1 to Dredge lists, but simply crush it post sideboard.
For Legacy: Cruise was certainly dominating pretty hard, even though Legacy could "handle" it. Simply put, Ancestral Recalling easily is not something they want, however. Ancestral Visions is fine, as the only way to "cheat" it is with Cascade, and waiting 4 turns is likely backbreaking a good number of times. Recalling at will is an entirely different story. A lot of games came down to nothing more than who cruised first, and I can see how that wasn't something they wanted. Still, I think Legacy *could* have handled cruise, as the meta game has slowly been adapting to it. But it's understandable as to why they didn't want it around anymore. Worldgorger unbanning is neat; it was banned a long time ago, when legacy was a very different format with different things going on. Its combo is no worse or more difficult to deal with than any number of combo decks that exist now, and likely is more easily dealt with than those others anyway. So yep.
Vintage: I don't know, and I don't particularly care.
Bloodbraid Elf is a Siege Rhino with a worse body and slightly better effect. It is completely fine.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think this is the biggest problem with banning TC in Legacy, and that's that the format has (slowly) been adapting to its presence, as well as taking different avenues of deck building that haven't been explored before. The real problem, I feel, is that a lot of games just come down to who cruises first. And the first cruise feeds then next, which feeds the next, and feeds the fourth. It snowballs pretty hard in the format. So although I think Legacy *can* handle, it does contort the format and play around a single card.
It likely is, particularly now that Deathrite can't ramp it out early and often (Which from my very limited understanding was part of the problem; even though the two were legal for a short time, the fact that Jund had so much value so quickly really made it difficult). But just from viewing the B&R lists, and seeing logic of bannings, high-value cards are not where they want Modern to be. I think the format could probably handle it, but I wasn't really commenting on what I think about the card, only what Wizards seems to want Modern to be. And I don't see a Modern with Bloodbraid in it in the foreseeable future.
Then there will be an inconsistent banlist until they ban Siege Rhino. Unbanning Bloodbraid Elf seems more likely.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'm pretty tired of modern being a format with a powerlevel less than the old extended that had a smaller card pool to choose from. Every ban just pushes us closer and closer to standard 2.0.
That said, these bans are completely unsurprising considering the established patterns. Anyone who didn't see the pod ban coming wasn't paying attention. People have been calling out Pod as a potential ban for over a year now. I think that the only reason it missed the last round was because WotC wanted to see if TC would keep it down. It didn't, and instead pushed out decks that pod had trouble with, so when TC and DTT got the axe for having too great a share of the metagame, they finally decided to follow through on banning pod. The only surprise to me here is that they didn't choose to test out ancestral visions for the very short time before the next B&R announcement. It is about time the troll came off the list. That card had no business being there even using their philosophies.
Actually, the deck that might want him (dredgevine) should be happy to cast him from time to time. That said, he is unlikely to make much of a splash. Dread return is the best payoff card for dredge and it remains firmly on the banned list, and cabal therapy doesn't exist in modern to protect the yard.
Affinity doesn't play goyf and nothing from it got banned.
While DTT is powerful, I wasn't even aware that it was getting run in any significant numbers in modern. Some people are saying it's preemptive, but I don't really see this ban changing anything. TC getting banned sort of just resets the format a bit, sans pod. I can't be the only one who dabbled with U/R delver before TC was even a thing - the deck had been putting up impressive numbers online for awhile before that card even came out.
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