How can you say lightning bolt is not warping the format around it? It single handedly dicates what creatures can be played, there is next to no red deck without this one card and the same is true for Tarmogoyf.
Cryptic command is completely different and is certainly not influencing what cards you play or do you see "cannot be countered" spells being played in large ammounts? But if you are a creature looking for a spot in a modern deck, you better make sure you either cost one mana, or have 4 toughness.
there is next to no white deck without path to exile. there is next to no black deck without inquisition or thoughtseize. there is next to no blue deck without serum visions. i don't see your point. bolt is a staple of the format, but it isn't overpowered. tarmogoyf is not influencing the cards people play maindeck. its a vanilla creature that is bigger than average for its mana cost at the end of the day. it gets chumped all day long and any amount of grave hate shrinks it to an irrelevant size. plus with reality shift its pretty much a non issue now for any blue deck.
all my examples are staples of the format. bolt and goyf are on that list too. but these cards don't warp the format. they are staples, that's it.
TC and DTT were obviously going away. I'm surprised that WotC didn't give Pod 3 more months, however, to see how it went in a less busted format.
I am very, very, very glad I picked up Dark Confidants while they were pushed out of consideration by TC. On MTGO, I picked up a playset of foil ones for about $20 each when it was the third best low mana card draw option, now it's back to being the best one.
On Modern more generally - at least on MTGO, there's a lot of evidence that prices are going up and thus people expect Modern to be more popular after these changes.
Well, for starters: There are next to no mono-white decks. If you consider Pod or Zoo as white, they didn't play path. And thoughtseize was more a sideboard card.
But even if you insist that these are the same (which they are not): They do not warp the format. Nobody is changing their deck because of the cards you mentioned. But goyf and especially bolt do that, alot more than Pod.
About goyf: This card is so OP, decks that should have no reason to play green creatures are just splashing for it. "Tarmo-Twin" or that "no affinity" Tarmo-affinity deck. That's just retarded and even Delverdecks used him for some time...
i feel like i am not going to convince you otherwise so enjoy living in fear of a vanilla creature that isn't going to get banned because it isn't that powerful. let me know when UR twin and affinity cease to exist in favor of those same decks with green splashes for goyf though.
Goyf truly is oppressive in that for its efficiency, it makes it silly to even consider playing other creatures if you can play Goyf. That doesn't equal broken or even necessarily OP, but it's sure as hell boring. The price tag doesn't help either.
Personally I think banning Pod was probably correct, but I don't like the idea of a mono-goyf creature format, either.
i agree with you completely. i don't mean to come off as a fan of goyf. it's a stupid magic card that is a bit too good at what it does and costs a fortune because of that. it obsoletes all other green 2 drops except for maybe scooze (which fights against goyf). however, i will say again that reality shift existing makes goyf a lot less scary for decks playing blue and not playing white for path, so i don't really care about it.
WotC stopped the watchlist many years ago they haven't had a watchlist for quite a long time. Go ahead and look for such a watchlist on the mothership because there isn't one. I can't even find much of anything via google concerning watchlists the only thing I found was kamigawa block constructed stuff on the watchlist like tallowisp and genju of the fields/very archaic stuff.
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There isnt any data that shows Goyf becoming a menace to a format. all these bans take in consideration tournament turn outs, grand prix wins, etc raw tangible data that wizards uses to makes these decisions. for anyone screaming that goyf is a problem for any format i ask to show where the problem is other than it costing $40000000000 (imo) , i ask that people stop iterating all these play scenarios and lightning bolt gimicks and stick to the data.
Well, all the pros and people actually good at Magic are glad for Birthing Pod's exit from Modern. Go figure I come here and see people that apparently haven't been watching tournament results for the last two years.
Goyf is a perfect example for a card that crawled its way up in value and simply never got down again.
Is it "worth" its money ? Well no and yes. But people dont really care, as you can quite easily sell it and buy it at any time.
Its a super efficient creature made for constructed with fetchlands, and it will perform for as long as the format has all the strong options to fill a graveyard quickly.
But in the end, we allways had some creature in magic that was the best at what it needed to do.
Then something better got printed, and the wheel keeps rolling.
Its value is highly inflated, and that also prevents WotC from really reprinting it in a meaningfull way to reduce its price. Anyone that currently has a playset will be very sad, so they just dont take the risk, there are enough goyfs, they are just quite an investment and WotC likes to have value in magic, it makes people even more excited if they really put money in the game.
*The alternative would be to reprint the card for cheap and in high quantity, which would easily flush its price down the toilet. The "players" would be happy, but any collector and especially "investors" (people that like the value they have) , will be highly disappointed, NOT WORTH IT.
Goyf is a perfect example for a card that crawled its way up in value and simply never got down again.
Is it "worth" its money ? Well no and yes. But people dont really care, as you can quite easily sell it and buy it at any time.
Its a super efficient creature made for constructed with fetchlands, and it will perform for as long as the format has all the strong options to fill a graveyard quickly.
But in the end, we allways had some creature in magic that was the best at what it needed to do.
Then something better got printed, and the wheel keeps rolling.
Its value is highly inflated, and that also prevents WotC from really reprinting it in a meaningfull way to reduce its price. Anyone that currently has a playset will be very sad, so they just dont take the risk, there are enough goyfs, they are just quite an investment and WotC likes to have value in magic, it makes people even more excited if they really put money in the game.
*The alternative would be to reprint the card for cheap and in high quantity, which would easily flush its price down the toilet. The "players" would be happy, but any collector and especially "investors" (people that like the value they have) , will be highly disappointed, NOT WORTH IT.
Reserved List is exactly the counter argument for this.
Goyf is a perfect example for a card that crawled its way up in value and simply never got down again.
Is it "worth" its money ? Well no and yes. But people dont really care, as you can quite easily sell it and buy it at any time.
Its a super efficient creature made for constructed with fetchlands, and it will perform for as long as the format has all the strong options to fill a graveyard quickly.
But in the end, we allways had some creature in magic that was the best at what it needed to do.
Then something better got printed, and the wheel keeps rolling.
Its value is highly inflated, and that also prevents WotC from really reprinting it in a meaningfull way to reduce its price. Anyone that currently has a playset will be very sad, so they just dont take the risk, there are enough goyfs, they are just quite an investment and WotC likes to have value in magic, it makes people even more excited if they really put money in the game.
*The alternative would be to reprint the card for cheap and in high quantity, which would easily flush its price down the toilet. The "players" would be happy, but any collector and especially "investors" (people that like the value they have) , will be highly disappointed, NOT WORTH IT.
'Investors' got crushed hard on Polluted Delta, and the game was better for it. Time for the same with Goyf, IMO.
I'm curious as to what would happen if they unbanned everything and let it fly. Could be interesting.
Pod I could give or take honestly, although it seems like with the power and consistency along with the ability to accumulate massive value, it's a reasonable ban.
TC, it was just a matter of time, it was basically Ancestral Recall. DT, not quite as broken, but I can see why they banned it. While I fully understand why TC is restricted in vintage, I think its hilarious, largely because people thought TC would suck before it came out, and now it's proven too powerful to have unrestricted even in vintage.
I swear I first read it as Wingbonger...something tells me that "As Long as Wingbonger is paired with another creature, both creatures have weed." wouldn't be as good. Seems solid for limited.
Just a little food for thought folks - you CAN still play Chord of Calling with the Melira or Archangel combo, and Gavony Township with persist creatures is still a huge pain in the butt. Just because Affinity hardly ever plays cards with actual Affinity written on them doesn't mean it's a dead deck.
Hahahahaha. Modern. This is why I focus more on Legacy. The only card I am disappointed in is that Treasure Cruise is banned in Legacy, but doesn't annoy me much at all, considering it was either build UR delver, or Sneak & Show lol.
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I think it is sad that Modern is suffering because (a) Wizards is too lazy to do any testing what-so-ever for modern and (b) "removal and counterspells are scary" so we don't anything meaningful out of new sets except for creatures and misjudged mistakes (TC).
Well, all the pros and people actually good at Magic are glad for Birthing Pod's exit from Modern. Go figure I come here and see people that apparently haven't been watching tournament results for the last two years.
Cool, thanks for putting us all in our place. Should you find the motivation to descend from your perch far above us and interact with the rabble, you may find that some people who play the game aren't pros or, as you like to call them, "people actually good at Magic" and enjoy particular decks. Said people tend to get upset when they can't play that deck anymore.
In this case, I think the Pod ban wasn't truly necessary. It's a strong deck and one of the best, but it's not unfair or unbeatable. The fact that it can be destroyed by removing one card means the entire archetype gets scrapped, unlike decks such as Jund or Storm that can still soldier on after losing some of their main firepower. Sure, you'll almost always see a Pod deck in the top 8, maybe even 2-3, but in my opinion that just means it's a very solid deck and not !@#%ing Caw-Blade 2.0.
Wizards need to drop the modern archetype entirely if this is their route. They force change-ups in the top deck by banning in the instrumental cards, cards that weren't inherently broken, for the sole purpose of introducing more variety. In standard you get that inherent to a rotating format with fresh card pools rolling in and out, but modern is just getting more and more clumped since extended was replaced. And to make it less stagnant, they're going to unpredictably ax the top decks? This isn't a healthy way to spice up the game. Their only other method of shaking up modern is to print new modern relevant cards, cards with legacy impact from new sets, like.... treasure cruise. Which they just banned. Even dig through time, which wasn't all that busted. So they give us nice new tools to change the meta, then snatch them right back, then try to micromanage the metagame with this hands on approach.
maybe now that they're changing up the standard format and block rotations, they should just think about overhauling how modern works
I will say this much: the however many months that Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time were in Modern made the format infinitely more fun to watch, imho. Did they kill diversity and need to go, yeah? But Modern was sure a lot more exciting with them around, again imho.
Anybody who thinks the pod ban in unreasonable either plays pod or doesnt play modern. That deck was a stranglehold on the format that jund never was. You could build it to beat literally anything if you could call the meta right, and could come back from almost any board state if they could resolve the namesake card.
Don't kid yourself folks, free mana and tutoring in the same card is bonkers. If you're playing a fair deck, having to answer persist creatures, problem artifacts, AND big butted creatures like siege rhino is pretty much undoable unless youre in Abzan colors to begin with which leads you right back to, yep you guessed it, playing pod.
Also, somebody earlier was saying if since they banned pod that they pretty much had to ban goyf....hahahahahaha. Because the deck that could most easily spit goyfs out (pod) really never played them. Get some insight into the format by you know, playing it.
A+++++ ban list update, good job wizards.
EDIT: reading more of the thread, people saying they just banned 'the fun cards' hahahah! straight up stand up comedians in here. Nobody's ever had fun watching somebody activate pod even for the first time, or cast recall. And trust me, I loved casting recall in modern. People need to get real.
I just finished assembling Kiki-Pod, and I didn't get to play a single tournament with it. I'm done paying for this bull***** game. <SNIPPED> Mother****ers...
there is next to no white deck without path to exile. there is next to no black deck without inquisition or thoughtseize. there is next to no blue deck without serum visions. i don't see your point. bolt is a staple of the format, but it isn't overpowered. tarmogoyf is not influencing the cards people play maindeck. its a vanilla creature that is bigger than average for its mana cost at the end of the day. it gets chumped all day long and any amount of grave hate shrinks it to an irrelevant size. plus with reality shift its pretty much a non issue now for any blue deck.
all my examples are staples of the format. bolt and goyf are on that list too. but these cards don't warp the format. they are staples, that's it.
I am very, very, very glad I picked up Dark Confidants while they were pushed out of consideration by TC. On MTGO, I picked up a playset of foil ones for about $20 each when it was the third best low mana card draw option, now it's back to being the best one.
On Modern more generally - at least on MTGO, there's a lot of evidence that prices are going up and thus people expect Modern to be more popular after these changes.
i feel like i am not going to convince you otherwise so enjoy living in fear of a vanilla creature that isn't going to get banned because it isn't that powerful. let me know when UR twin and affinity cease to exist in favor of those same decks with green splashes for goyf though.
Personally I think banning Pod was probably correct, but I don't like the idea of a mono-goyf creature format, either.
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Is it "worth" its money ? Well no and yes. But people dont really care, as you can quite easily sell it and buy it at any time.
Its a super efficient creature made for constructed with fetchlands, and it will perform for as long as the format has all the strong options to fill a graveyard quickly.
But in the end, we allways had some creature in magic that was the best at what it needed to do.
Then something better got printed, and the wheel keeps rolling.
Its value is highly inflated, and that also prevents WotC from really reprinting it in a meaningfull way to reduce its price. Anyone that currently has a playset will be very sad, so they just dont take the risk, there are enough goyfs, they are just quite an investment and WotC likes to have value in magic, it makes people even more excited if they really put money in the game.
*The alternative would be to reprint the card for cheap and in high quantity, which would easily flush its price down the toilet. The "players" would be happy, but any collector and especially "investors" (people that like the value they have) , will be highly disappointed, NOT WORTH IT.
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Reserved List is exactly the counter argument for this.
'Investors' got crushed hard on Polluted Delta, and the game was better for it. Time for the same with Goyf, IMO.
Also sorry that TC has been banned in all relevant formats. I guess I better unload my foils now. Same with Dig Through Time.
Pod I could give or take honestly, although it seems like with the power and consistency along with the ability to accumulate massive value, it's a reasonable ban.
TC, it was just a matter of time, it was basically Ancestral Recall. DT, not quite as broken, but I can see why they banned it. While I fully understand why TC is restricted in vintage, I think its hilarious, largely because people thought TC would suck before it came out, and now it's proven too powerful to have unrestricted even in vintage.
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Cool, thanks for putting us all in our place. Should you find the motivation to descend from your perch far above us and interact with the rabble, you may find that some people who play the game aren't pros or, as you like to call them, "people actually good at Magic" and enjoy particular decks. Said people tend to get upset when they can't play that deck anymore.
In this case, I think the Pod ban wasn't truly necessary. It's a strong deck and one of the best, but it's not unfair or unbeatable. The fact that it can be destroyed by removing one card means the entire archetype gets scrapped, unlike decks such as Jund or Storm that can still soldier on after losing some of their main firepower. Sure, you'll almost always see a Pod deck in the top 8, maybe even 2-3, but in my opinion that just means it's a very solid deck and not !@#%ing Caw-Blade 2.0.
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maybe now that they're changing up the standard format and block rotations, they should just think about overhauling how modern works
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Don't kid yourself folks, free mana and tutoring in the same card is bonkers. If you're playing a fair deck, having to answer persist creatures, problem artifacts, AND big butted creatures like siege rhino is pretty much undoable unless youre in Abzan colors to begin with which leads you right back to, yep you guessed it, playing pod.
Also, somebody earlier was saying if since they banned pod that they pretty much had to ban goyf....hahahahahaha. Because the deck that could most easily spit goyfs out (pod) really never played them. Get some insight into the format by you know, playing it.
A+++++ ban list update, good job wizards.
EDIT: reading more of the thread, people saying they just banned 'the fun cards' hahahah! straight up stand up comedians in here. Nobody's ever had fun watching somebody activate pod even for the first time, or cast recall. And trust me, I loved casting recall in modern. People need to get real.
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