Fail.
Wasn't Iona and/or Avacyn reprinted recently? Why no Linvala or Maelstrom Archangel?
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Well it's $35 msrp. You either buy it for that or it's not worth it at all. There are no cards in here that have any value to me at all. I'm sure that is the same for most of the player base. This product caters to a specific part of the magic angel only audience which is a low number of people. Don't let your LGS over charge you.
... I hope that you're being sarcastic. Angels are one of the most popular creature types by far. People who do not play Magic will collect MTG angel cards.
Fail.
Wasn't Iona and/or Avacyn reprinted recently? Why no Linvala or Maelstrom Archangel?
Iona was reprinted recently, Avacyn was not. Yes, it's really weird that they put Iona in two products in a row. No Linvala because then it would be "FTV: Linvala plus some other stuff". If you want Linvala to be more available, FTV is not the place to reprint it - it won't really do anything to the price. She'll get a reprint at some point (although honestly, with WOTC's track record, it will probably be a judge promo next year). I had also wanted to see Maelstrom Archangel, but we can't get everything. Last year's FTV was a fail. This year they released a solid, middle-of-the-road set. It's not dripping with value, but it's not worthless either.
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Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
People complaining that Wizards didn't put a Benjamin in a box and then that stores didn't sell all the value it did include for an MSRP of $39.95. What else is new?
This is a fantastic FTV. Did they put in everything I'd hoped for? No and that's fine. If you can pick this up for 65$ or less you're getting a solid deal for this set.
Other than not including Linvala, Angel of Despair, or any of the Avacyn trio (Bruna, Sigarda, Gisela) they hit all the most important ones.
When people complain about this set I want to shake them and ask them what is wrong with them. Did they not see FTV annihilation in all of its awfulness? This for me is the best FTV since Realms.
Started buying the FtV series a few years back with Realms, and I have to agree. This is the best product in this line that Wizards has released in years. I have been happy enough with some of the products (Legends, Twenty) and disappointed with others (Annihilation), but I haven't been as excited to get my hands on one of these as I am for this Angels one (and I am not even a fan of the tribe; white's my least favorite color). Hell, I pre-ordered two since I managed to find one at MSRP and one only slightly above. I get that not every set can be worth it for every player, but overall I think they totally nailed it with this one. People were expecting way more jank than we got, and the fact that there are still good angels worthy of reprints merely speaks to the strength of the tribe and not what should have been in this product.
You said that $75 wasn't a fair price - something that the store determines. If the store actually sells them at $75 then it is a fair price.
Of course I think $75 is way too much for something that has absolutely no value to me, but it's still a fair price based on what makes a price fair or not (my opinion has no bearing on the fairness in the market).
We really just need to stop using terms like "fair" when dealing with market processes.
You said that $75 wasn't a fair price - something that the store determines. If the store actually sells them at $75 then it is a fair price.
Of course I think $75 is way too much for something that has absolutely no value to me, but it's still a fair price based on what makes a price fair or not (my opinion has no bearing on the fairness in the market).
We really just need to stop using terms like "fair" when dealing with market processes.
Don't you know? "Fair" means "what I feel like paying for it". Charging more than that is "gouging".
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If the Vikings were around today, they would probably be amazed at how much glow-in-the-dark stuff we have, and how we take it for granted.
You can only set prices so high so long as people are willing to pay for it. To me this set is worth $60. $70 is my max. Anything higher is a rip. Others might disagree. Others might agree. Who knows, maybe I'll get it for less. It's like selling it on eBay or Craiglist. You may think it's worth a lot, but do others share the same mindset?
When people complain about this set I want to shake them and ask them what is wrong with them. Did they not see FTV annihilation in all of its awfulness? This for me is the best FTV since Realms.
It definitely is the best FTV since Realms
I "complain" about this set mostly because I already have the good angels present in it, I don't care for foils and the alternate art is unexciting (not a big fan of Iona's or both Akroma's new arts, Iridescent Angel is pretty bad same goes for Exalted Angel and Serra Angel)
It's a good product for collectors but in terms of play value it isn't that great for me
Which is fine, I am sure plenty of players will want this and be happy with it but this FTV was a bit of a letdown for me; however a lot of it is because I'm an avid angel fan (I never, ever trade or sell them away)
I think it's a high quality product and I am escpailly excited to finally own that Serra Angel art.
But I'm really tired of paying 3x - 4x or more MSRP for these things. It's agonizing when these products turn out good. But what can WOTC do? It's just how it is.
I think it's a high quality product and I am escpailly excited to finally own that Serra Angel art.
But I'm really tired of paying 3x - 4x or more MSRP for these things. It's agonizing when these products turn out good. But what can WOTC do? It's just how it is.
They can flood the market with these to get you your MSRP Angels. Loading big box stores would do it. But that's not what these products are for.
Sidenote: You should be able to buy singles for cheap enough.
I look at these prices as a result of various cost-related factors, including labor, purchase and maintenance of equipment (including computers, printers, telecommunications), purchase of supplies for cards, dice, packaging, and other physical materials (including but not necessarily limited to cardboard, ink, foiling, plastic, and dye), marketing, distribution costs (including vehicles and containers), record keeping, and maintenance of copyrights, trademarks, and patents.
Then there's the fact executives do deserve to get paid for their work too since without somebody managing and organizing everything, a lot of the employees would pull apart sooner or later. And if employees did gather to make decisions (much like creative, design, development, and marketing do when creating and preparing to sell the game), they would effectively constitute their own board of directors, making them the executives. Making a game like this on such a large scale is neither cheap nor easy. As with any company, large amounts of money have to move to make things happen.
And the fact of the matter is, no-one is forcing anyone to buy this stuff or to not buy this stuff. As long as you have the final say on what you get to spend your money on, it's a fair market as far as I'm concerned. That said, short supplies and price gouging do make things difficult for customers with less money alotted for personal luxuries, which is why ideally we should encourage the spread of good financial education to help bring the lower incomes up. That, and curb inflation by not debasing currencies. And revise the tax system to be far less confusing and punishing towards middle income residents and families.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Europe the pack price wise is allmost MSRP (50 bucks you get them easily pretty much anywhere), so thats no concern anymore since they print and give out quite alot of them to stores (especially high level stores get more than enough right now, which wasnt the case for the first bunch FTV , neither are they as high value as the first).
The dissappointment is justified as this is THE FTV-Angels and we wont get another of these (Angel themed) for quite a while.
So any promo angel missing probably means you wont see them in a long long time.
I guess it's a matter of opinion then. This set has a total of two playable angels for me(which I already own), while FTV annihilation had tons of cards that I would readily use. Also, there was absolutely no reason to include cards that were recently reprinted instead of Linvala or Maelstrom. So, boo.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I think it's a high quality product and I am escpailly excited to finally own that Serra Angel art.
But I'm really tired of paying 3x - 4x or more MSRP for these things. It's agonizing when these products turn out good. But what can WOTC do? It's just how it is.
They can flood the market with these to get you your MSRP Angels. Loading big box stores would do it. But that's not what these products are for.
Sidenote: You should be able to buy singles for cheap enough.
Funny thing, that. I just checked on Magiccardmarket, and if I were to buy each single from this set loose from the cheapest seller (So excluding the 9 different sending costs), I'd be out of 74 euros. Alternately, I could buy the entire box for 50-60 euros, so...
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Funny thing, that. I just checked on Magiccardmarket, and if I were to buy each single from this set loose from the cheapest seller (So excluding the 9 different sending costs), I'd be out of 74 euros. Alternately, I could buy the entire box for 50-60 euros, so...
Well yeah. That's always how it is. But Serra Angels are normally very cheap and the Serra Angel in the FtV shouldn't be too bad.
True, it's going for around 2 dollars now, keeping only Archangel of Strife and Lightning Angel beneath it. But it's moreso aimed to those who'd think that buying all the singles will be cheaper vs buying the box.
And 3-4x MSRP is still a weird thing to claim when it doesn't even break 2x, and when you consider that it only has a MSRP because it's supposed to - I'm sure WOTC would rather say "Guys, just make up your own price on this thing" with this, but hey, laws and all...
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Since we're on the topic of MSRP. I noticed that one of the shops in Montreal has pre-orders at 120 dollars (holy cow!). I'm not sure who will be buying this at those prices. Usually all the shops fall in line at around the same price give or take 10 dollars. I know that they all call each other to find out what they are pricing it at.
Maybe they're secretly collaborating which price to set it at. I'm not at all worried TBH. eBay still exists, although people on eBay are not much better.
I was so happy that we got the list on monday, at the same time I was pissed because they didn't show us the dice
I couldn't find a picture on the internet, so I too would be happy if someone has one
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
Yeah, I'm really quite excited for this. I imagine some sort of nacre finish.
Augustin, Rasputin, Bruna, Brago, Ojutai
Wasn't Iona and/or Avacyn reprinted recently? Why no Linvala or Maelstrom Archangel?
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Yeah, it is. The old art is completely badass.
... I hope that you're being sarcastic. Angels are one of the most popular creature types by far. People who do not play Magic will collect MTG angel cards.
Iona was reprinted recently, Avacyn was not. Yes, it's really weird that they put Iona in two products in a row. No Linvala because then it would be "FTV: Linvala plus some other stuff". If you want Linvala to be more available, FTV is not the place to reprint it - it won't really do anything to the price. She'll get a reprint at some point (although honestly, with WOTC's track record, it will probably be a judge promo next year). I had also wanted to see Maelstrom Archangel, but we can't get everything. Last year's FTV was a fail. This year they released a solid, middle-of-the-road set. It's not dripping with value, but it's not worthless either.
Started buying the FtV series a few years back with Realms, and I have to agree. This is the best product in this line that Wizards has released in years. I have been happy enough with some of the products (Legends, Twenty) and disappointed with others (Annihilation), but I haven't been as excited to get my hands on one of these as I am for this Angels one (and I am not even a fan of the tribe; white's my least favorite color). Hell, I pre-ordered two since I managed to find one at MSRP and one only slightly above. I get that not every set can be worth it for every player, but overall I think they totally nailed it with this one. People were expecting way more jank than we got, and the fact that there are still good angels worthy of reprints merely speaks to the strength of the tribe and not what should have been in this product.
We really just need to stop using terms like "fair" when dealing with market processes.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Or using the definition that my 6 year old uses.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Don't you know? "Fair" means "what I feel like paying for it". Charging more than that is "gouging".
Lymphoma Cancer Survivor!
It definitely is the best FTV since Realms
I "complain" about this set mostly because I already have the good angels present in it, I don't care for foils and the alternate art is unexciting (not a big fan of Iona's or both Akroma's new arts, Iridescent Angel is pretty bad same goes for Exalted Angel and Serra Angel)
It's a good product for collectors but in terms of play value it isn't that great for me
Which is fine, I am sure plenty of players will want this and be happy with it but this FTV was a bit of a letdown for me; however a lot of it is because I'm an avid angel fan (I never, ever trade or sell them away)
Considering the average quality of posts on this site this sounds like wishful thinking more than anything!
But I'm really tired of paying 3x - 4x or more MSRP for these things. It's agonizing when these products turn out good. But what can WOTC do? It's just how it is.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
They can flood the market with these to get you your MSRP Angels. Loading big box stores would do it. But that's not what these products are for.
Sidenote: You should be able to buy singles for cheap enough.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Then there's the fact executives do deserve to get paid for their work too since without somebody managing and organizing everything, a lot of the employees would pull apart sooner or later. And if employees did gather to make decisions (much like creative, design, development, and marketing do when creating and preparing to sell the game), they would effectively constitute their own board of directors, making them the executives. Making a game like this on such a large scale is neither cheap nor easy. As with any company, large amounts of money have to move to make things happen.
And the fact of the matter is, no-one is forcing anyone to buy this stuff or to not buy this stuff. As long as you have the final say on what you get to spend your money on, it's a fair market as far as I'm concerned. That said, short supplies and price gouging do make things difficult for customers with less money alotted for personal luxuries, which is why ideally we should encourage the spread of good financial education to help bring the lower incomes up. That, and curb inflation by not debasing currencies. And revise the tax system to be far less confusing and punishing towards middle income residents and families.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
The dissappointment is justified as this is THE FTV-Angels and we wont get another of these (Angel themed) for quite a while.
So any promo angel missing probably means you wont see them in a long long time.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
It's good art but it doesn't look great with the modern border imo.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Funny thing, that. I just checked on Magiccardmarket, and if I were to buy each single from this set loose from the cheapest seller (So excluding the 9 different sending costs), I'd be out of 74 euros. Alternately, I could buy the entire box for 50-60 euros, so...
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Well yeah. That's always how it is. But Serra Angels are normally very cheap and the Serra Angel in the FtV shouldn't be too bad.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
And 3-4x MSRP is still a weird thing to claim when it doesn't even break 2x, and when you consider that it only has a MSRP because it's supposed to - I'm sure WOTC would rather say "Guys, just make up your own price on this thing" with this, but hey, laws and all...
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Sounds just like United States gas stations! Oh wait.
The LGS I'm going to hasn't disclosed a price, which I find odd.
Lymphoma Cancer Survivor!
Lymphoma Cancer Survivor!