I guess the important thing is not so much the high value cards, but how many chaff we're gonna get. If the amount of chaff was similar to Twenty and Annihilation I think it's better to get the singles.
That's always the MSRP for FTV sets. It might as well say "nudge nudge wink wink" because everyone knows that it's really going to sell for about $100 in LGS.
You mean like Annihilation, which you could buy for MSRP on EBay from day 1 (and still can)?
That one is the exception, not the rule, and you know it.
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
I'd rather this only have one high value card (either Avacyn or Iona), one mid value card (Akroma/Gisela/Baneslayer) and 13 $2+ cards. Than it be Avacyn, Linvala and 13 pieces of crap like Angelic Armaments, Serra's Boon etc.
It's still gonna be 50+ shekels in my country because that's how they rub, but I'd rather these inflated products at least look good in your collection binder.
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
It depends on what cards are in the set, of course, but I think you're severely underestimating the angel collectors out there. Just look at FTV: Dragons. The most expensive dragon in that set (pre-FTV printing) was Kokusho. I believe he was commanding around $20 at the time. All of the other dragons except maybe Niv Mizzet were near junk-status in terms of value, but it still sold for at least $100 right off the bat. The most expensive card in the set now is Nicol Bolas at $50. He's a downright terrible card and normal TSP and Chronicles copies are available for under a buck. I would imagine the FTV version only commands such a high price because 1: It's the only "accurate" artistic depiction of him on his creature card 2. the only accurate depiction of his new design on his creature card that's available in foil 3. because at least one card has to prop up the value of such an expensive set.
But even Bolas and Kokusho (who are only supported by casual play, fans of the characters and the occasional EDH deck) can't compare in terms of power or playability to the likes of Avacyn, Iona, and Linvala. If any of those three are in the set you can guarantee it'll go for more than $35.
The thing about FTV: Annihilation is that it was doomed from the start just based on the premise. As splashy as board sweepers are, they just aren't the most exciting cards to make a set around. The one everybody expected..the one that definitely would have sold the set, Damnation was excluded (for reasons we suspect but have yet to confirm) so what did that leave us with? A Wrath of God with art that most people dislike? An obscure, better Earthquake that only appeals to a handful of EDH players and some cube people? A card that was only commanding a huge price due to the fact that it's a marginally-playable card that was printed like 20 years ago in a rare set?
You just can't compare board sweepers (half of which were just pseudo-board sweepers) to the likes of angels.
msun: Knives scoop ice cream.
Highroller: No they don't, knives don't scoop. Spoons scoop.
msun: Well, knives SHOULD scoop icecream.
Highroller: We have spoons that do it. Moreover, the shape of a knife that would scoop ice cream would make it horrible for performing the functions of a knife.
msun: Highroller, you bring up spoons as though they were the utensil used for scooping ice cream.
My kingdom for a foil Entreat the Angels. Whatever else there is to say about MTG angels, they have some pretty spectacular art.
(As someone that's loathe to buy singles online for illogical reasons, I'm just hoping this has some fun, relatively cheap cards that just don't happen to be sitting around LGSes available for purchase: stuff like Entreat, Luminarch Ascension, and Sigil of the Empty Throne. None of which are actually Angels. Huh. ...Avacyn would be pretty awesome, too, though, because like any number of other people, I have an EDH deck that contains White.)
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There's been FTVs I've looked at and thought 'oh, that could be awesome'. Annihilation was one until the card list got spoiled.
This one gets a big 'meh'.
My kingdom for an 'FTV: Trolling' with cards that annoy people in games - Winter Orb, Stasis, Sinkhole, some counter (eh, Mana Drain is not on the reserved list...) and, of course, Leveler or Chimney Imp as the ultimate two cards for trolling people that opened them in packs.
Add sphere effects, Sensei's Stalling Top, and you probably have a good selling product too.
Don't forget the Dimensional Breach or Goblin Game for the most annoying spells to resolve in a game. (Sadly, the cards that are more annoying again, like Sharazad, are reserved).
The FTV: 20 cards I got were warped more than Mirrodin foils in the package.
Both of my "budget" Jaces came with that chipping you mentioned straight out of the box.
And yeah, the übershine on the FTV foils is a big miss with me.
It's a shame really, as I am the target audience for this
(EDH deck pimper).
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
They don't just look bad in comparison, they also warp more and (crucially) tend to chip at the edges far easier than normal foils.
I thought it was just me. A lot of my FTV cards are chipped. I assumed the extra FTV dragons singles I picked up in a trade were worn because the guy had been playing them without sleeves or something, but I've had a few FTV singles I bought from online stores get that way. The PSD cards (at least the Slivers ones) also seemed to be extra fragile.
Interesting, my own experience is the complete opposite of that.
I think it really depends on the humidity in your area. My FTV annihiliation foils came out of the box warped. Over time my regular foils warp if left outside of sleeves, but I also live in Southern Texas, which is like super humid. My FTV foils even warp in sleeve unless they're double sleeved.
I honestly think these sets would sell a lot better if they were normal foils. After having some EDH staples from the FTV: Legends set rot in my trade binder for a while, I've heard too many people say that they don't like them, and those interested just wanted any foil because they were foiling their deck or cube and just wanted to tick the foil checkbox. I think 95% of people fall into one of these two categories:
I actually like the FTV foils. They looked ugly to me at first when I opened my first FTV box (Exiled), then got used to them and like them a lot. I like how you can tell straightaway that it's from an FTV set and not just another pack foil.
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
It depends on what cards are in the set, of course, but I think you're severely underestimating the angel collectors out there. Just look at FTV: Dragons. The most expensive dragon in that set (pre-FTV printing) was Kokusho. I believe he was commanding around $20 at the time. All of the other dragons except maybe Niv Mizzet were near junk-status in terms of value, but it still sold for at least $100 right off the bat. The most expensive card in the set now is Nicol Bolas at $50. He's a downright terrible card and normal TSP and Chronicles copies are available for under a buck. I would imagine the FTV version only commands such a high price because 1: It's the only "accurate" artistic depiction of him on his creature card 2. the only accurate depiction of his new design on his creature card that's available in foil 3. because at least one card has to prop up the value of such an expensive set.
But even Bolas and Kokusho (who are only supported by casual play, fans of the characters and the occasional EDH deck) can't compare in terms of power or playability to the likes of Avacyn, Iona, and Linvala. If any of those three are in the set you can guarantee it'll go for more than $35.
The thing about FTV: Annihilation is that it was doomed from the start just based on the premise. As splashy as board sweepers are, they just aren't the most exciting cards to make a set around. The one everybody expected..the one that definitely would have sold the set, Damnation was excluded (for reasons we suspect but have yet to confirm) so what did that leave us with? A Wrath of God with art that most people dislike? An obscure, better Earthquake that only appeals to a handful of EDH players and some cube people? A card that was only commanding a huge price due to the fact that it's a marginally-playable card that was printed like 20 years ago in a rare set?
You just can't compare board sweepers (half of which were just pseudo-board sweepers) to the likes of angels.
From my own personal stance, I believe this post is on point. Angels, like Dragons, are iconic, casual favourites and highly collectible, and I'm unless the set is particularly terrible, I'm getting this set because I like angels. I want a foil Twilight Shepherd, Admonition Angel, Angelic Skirmisher etc etc, not just the Modern/Legacy staples.
Edit: I guess this a good parallel to when people complain that there isn't enough value in DD or Event Deck sets.
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
Avacyn, Linvala and Iona seem a bit much to me. Isn't that like 100+ in value?
Isn't JTMS near 100 in value? My issue with the lists everybody is putting out is that they are so heavily white centered. Granted angels are more often than not, white, but I would be shocked if 9 out of the 15 cards are white only cards.
I suppose, I just don't see this being 15 of the most expensive angels. When I see those 3 listed with Baneslayer, Sublime and Gisela I'm a little worried people may be setting themselves up for disappointment by making wish lists than reasonable lists. Those all could very well be in here, but I doubt you'll also get 13 Angels worth $10+ alongside the big 3. Some slots should be about flavor not just value.
I will agree Twilight Shepherd is probably the new art, but I hope not, because I love the original art on that card. I'd love if Starlit Angel is one of them too so it is finally in the new border.
I agree, seeing all the big money angels won't happen. I'm just trying to figure out how they could do this set without having it be overly white. Most lists I have seen are too monochromatic.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
Which kind of proves my point. Even with two ~$100 cards, you could still get the most recent FTV for MSRP. They are trying to keep prices closer to MSRP than $100.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
It's also the most recent, and tends to show that they have changed both the Design/Development and the distribution. Angels is much more likely to be $35 than $100.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
It's still gonna be 50+ shekels in my country because that's how they rub, but I'd rather these inflated products at least look good in your collection binder.
It depends on what cards are in the set, of course, but I think you're severely underestimating the angel collectors out there. Just look at FTV: Dragons. The most expensive dragon in that set (pre-FTV printing) was Kokusho. I believe he was commanding around $20 at the time. All of the other dragons except maybe Niv Mizzet were near junk-status in terms of value, but it still sold for at least $100 right off the bat. The most expensive card in the set now is Nicol Bolas at $50. He's a downright terrible card and normal TSP and Chronicles copies are available for under a buck. I would imagine the FTV version only commands such a high price because 1: It's the only "accurate" artistic depiction of him on his creature card 2. the only accurate depiction of his new design on his creature card that's available in foil 3. because at least one card has to prop up the value of such an expensive set.
But even Bolas and Kokusho (who are only supported by casual play, fans of the characters and the occasional EDH deck) can't compare in terms of power or playability to the likes of Avacyn, Iona, and Linvala. If any of those three are in the set you can guarantee it'll go for more than $35.
The thing about FTV: Annihilation is that it was doomed from the start just based on the premise. As splashy as board sweepers are, they just aren't the most exciting cards to make a set around. The one everybody expected..the one that definitely would have sold the set, Damnation was excluded (for reasons we suspect but have yet to confirm) so what did that leave us with? A Wrath of God with art that most people dislike? An obscure, better Earthquake that only appeals to a handful of EDH players and some cube people? A card that was only commanding a huge price due to the fact that it's a marginally-playable card that was printed like 20 years ago in a rare set?
You just can't compare board sweepers (half of which were just pseudo-board sweepers) to the likes of angels.
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
Wish these would be normal foils, or not at all.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I would love this too, but have it be called:
FTV: Denied!
(As someone that's loathe to buy singles online for illogical reasons, I'm just hoping this has some fun, relatively cheap cards that just don't happen to be sitting around LGSes available for purchase: stuff like Entreat, Luminarch Ascension, and Sigil of the Empty Throne. None of which are actually Angels. Huh. ...Avacyn would be pretty awesome, too, though, because like any number of other people, I have an EDH deck that contains White.)
This one gets a big 'meh'.
My kingdom for an 'FTV: Trolling' with cards that annoy people in games - Winter Orb, Stasis, Sinkhole, some counter (eh, Mana Drain is not on the reserved list...) and, of course, Leveler or Chimney Imp as the ultimate two cards for trolling people that opened them in packs.
Add sphere effects, Sensei's Stalling Top, and you probably have a good selling product too.
Don't forget the Dimensional Breach or Goblin Game for the most annoying spells to resolve in a game. (Sadly, the cards that are more annoying again, like Sharazad, are reserved).
The FTV: 20 cards I got were warped more than Mirrodin foils in the package.
Both of my "budget" Jaces came with that chipping you mentioned straight out of the box.
And yeah, the übershine on the FTV foils is a big miss with me.
It's a shame really, as I am the target audience for this
(EDH deck pimper).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I thought it was just me. A lot of my FTV cards are chipped. I assumed the extra FTV dragons singles I picked up in a trade were worn because the guy had been playing them without sleeves or something, but I've had a few FTV singles I bought from online stores get that way. The PSD cards (at least the Slivers ones) also seemed to be extra fragile.
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
I think it really depends on the humidity in your area. My FTV annihiliation foils came out of the box warped. Over time my regular foils warp if left outside of sleeves, but I also live in Southern Texas, which is like super humid. My FTV foils even warp in sleeve unless they're double sleeved.
Regular foil > FTV foil > non-foil
Regular foil > non-foil > FTV foil
FTV: putting the "suggested" in "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price".
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Edit: I guess this a good parallel to when people complain that there isn't enough value in DD or Event Deck sets.
I am super excited for this product regardless of what Angels end up in this... I will also likely buy like a case... Cuz I collect all the angels...
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Same here, I do not care what Angels are in it, I am buying it, and making sure I make out money from gifts to get this also.
Commander Decks:
WRadiant, ArchangelW
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
GUPrime Speaker ZeganaGU
WUBZur the EnchanterWUB
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveBG
WBTeysa, Envoy of GhostsWB
BIname, Death AspectB
GFreyalise, Llanowar's FuryG
WGSigarda, Host of HeronsWG
WURNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR
This was my first thought exactly as well. The pic screams Twilight Shepherd for some reason
You should look at what Rolling Earthquake and Burning of Xinye cost when they were announced as being in Annihilation
Looks about right 2-4 mythic + Serra + 2 dollars rares + 2-4 junk cards.
I agree, seeing all the big money angels won't happen. I'm just trying to figure out how they could do this set without having it be overly white. Most lists I have seen are too monochromatic.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Akroma, Angel of Fury (New Art ala DvD White Akroma)
Angelic Destiny
Desolation Angel
Exalted Angel (New Art)
Iona Shield of Emeria
Maelstrom Archangel
Platinum Angel
Restoration Angel
Reya Dawnbringer
Serra Angel (New Art)
Stoic Angel
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Twilight Shepherd (New Art)
Voice of All (New Art)
Which kind of proves my point. Even with two ~$100 cards, you could still get the most recent FTV for MSRP. They are trying to keep prices closer to MSRP than $100.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||