Wow, banning Dig in Legacy is interesting. Didn't see that coming. Love the Chalice restriction. It shows that Wizards still pays attention to and cares about Vintage, and should release Workshop's stranglehold on the format.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I have played zero games of Vintage since 2004, so I can't comment on those changes. The unbanning of Black Vise is good for Legacy: I'm interested to see what decks will use it. I'm ambivalent about Dig: I feel like it was too prevalent, but Legacy is full of powerful cards and Dig was a fun, skill-testing card.
There were no changes for Modern. This is probably a good thing. I would put Lantern cards like Ensnaring Bridge on the watch list (which is unofficial and often unmentioned), but we don't have the data to justify an outright ban at the moment. The only other option was unbans: notably Sword of the Meek. Sword needs to be tested first before we can release it into the public. I'm guessing that Wizards either did so and found the results to argue against unbanning it, or they have yet to do so.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I remember when both were spoiled and people said they won't see play.
Oh dear god.
From the standpoint of standard and limited both cards were so so. What really broke them both were eternal formats with more fetchlands, cheap removal, cheap cantrips that allowed them to just take off.
I do remember the hesitancy as to how good they would be. Its always easier to look at a card after seeing its playtesting results and give a verdict. I am glad that wizards is still willing to test the envelop some though. These cards did take a while to get restricted / banned in vintage legacy so that tells me that they were allowing them time to show that they deserved to be banned which I think is a good thing.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
They really missed the point, and picked the wrong cards to achieve their aims.
In legacy brainstorm is the problem, and will be the problem until they eventually but the bullet and ban it. The top 8's with 32 brainstorms are the issue, not the 10-ish DTTs.
In Vintage, Lodestone is the real offender. It's true that you can use artifact mana to get out from under Lodestone or Sphere, so Chalice on zero is a huge play to back that up. But Lodestone providing both disruption and a 4 turn clock is the main issue. Workshops has top decking issues because of the lack of draw spells, and can flounder around with no way to close the game, that's what golem gives them by combining those things into one card.
Knowing how much LSV loves Workshop decks, he's going to be very happy about that Chalice of the Void restriction. I think I remember him saying that if he had one thing to change with the Vintage B&R list it would be to restrict Chalice.
I should point out for non-Vintage players who've seized on the "format for people to play their Moxen" comment, that the comment is rather silly and has nothing to do with the banning. Nobody was ever going to replace their Moxen with Simian Spirit Guides just to play around Chalice, there are too many other incentives to play the Moxen. Also, all the Chalice decks play 5 Moxen themselves, and Shops is using a $2000 set of 21 year old lands, so this wasn't like some budget upstart deck was being killed to benefit rich kid decks. Whoever wrote the reasoning section seemed to have no idea what the real basis for the decision actually was.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/september-28-2015-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-09-28
-Dig Through Time is banned in Legacy
-Black Vise is unbanned in Legacy
-Chalice of the Void is restricted in Vintage
-Dig Through Time is restricted in Vintage
-Thirst for Knowledge is unrestricted in Vintage
We'll leave this thread open for discussion, but if things go south we'll close it down.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Huh...
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
huh? you guess? what a strange thing to say.
Well, there was Treasure Cruise.
Nope.
Treasure Cruise was first
Modern
WUBRG
You can use it in commander too for what its worth.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
There were no changes for Modern. This is probably a good thing. I would put Lantern cards like Ensnaring Bridge on the watch list (which is unofficial and often unmentioned), but we don't have the data to justify an outright ban at the moment. The only other option was unbans: notably Sword of the Meek. Sword needs to be tested first before we can release it into the public. I'm guessing that Wizards either did so and found the results to argue against unbanning it, or they have yet to do so.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
thats my cube
From the standpoint of standard and limited both cards were so so. What really broke them both were eternal formats with more fetchlands, cheap removal, cheap cantrips that allowed them to just take off.
I do remember the hesitancy as to how good they would be. Its always easier to look at a card after seeing its playtesting results and give a verdict. I am glad that wizards is still willing to test the envelop some though. These cards did take a while to get restricted / banned in vintage legacy so that tells me that they were allowing them time to show that they deserved to be banned which I think is a good thing.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Really now? That's just elitist...
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
In legacy brainstorm is the problem, and will be the problem until they eventually but the bullet and ban it. The top 8's with 32 brainstorms are the issue, not the 10-ish DTTs.
In Vintage, Lodestone is the real offender. It's true that you can use artifact mana to get out from under Lodestone or Sphere, so Chalice on zero is a huge play to back that up. But Lodestone providing both disruption and a 4 turn clock is the main issue. Workshops has top decking issues because of the lack of draw spells, and can flounder around with no way to close the game, that's what golem gives them by combining those things into one card.
I know the players trying to make Lantern work in Legacy, and Black Vice could be a big player here. Yay.
And the Vintage bannings are lol.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
They will be super cheap for my Commander decks.
how will these changes affect the formats?
Not everyone underestimated DTT at first-
I bought 10 foils @ $5 each
I guess not all gambles fail the "usual" way.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW