As someone who watches rather than plays will legacy burn takes out 4 Lava Spike and puts in 4 Black Vise?
It seems to me it will do more than 3 damage over the time its in play.
I'm also willing to admit the later in the game it gets the worse it will be.
The reason you don't restrict lodestone over chalice of the void is because if you restrict lodestone workshops as an archetype becomes way too weak. Turn 1 lodestone, while insanely good, wasn't as consistent as turn 1 chalice + sphere or something else to just shut down opposing moxen, mana crypts, lotus, etc. etc. and chalice can just make a game completely lopsided on the play where someone starts out with, say, 3 zero drops and chalice @ zero happens before they cast them same with chalice at 1.
Super glad about dig. Just further proves that they won't ban brainstorm though.
Thirst unrestriction was long overdue, as soon as dack fayden was printed they could have unrestricted it as dack practically invalidates it.
Dig restricted in vintage is unsurprising. It was by far the best there in that format because when you flip over 7 cards and get 2 busted restricted cards with dig it was absurd or it just pulled you way too far ahead. DTT is just as broken as cruise in vintage if not better and cruise was restricted there during FRF prerelease.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Well there goes the value of the rare I pulled most of in Khans, even with the standard season picking up I feel that values will still go down because of legacy and vintage players dumping their copies.
Well there goes the value of the rare I pulled most of in Khans, even with the standard season picking up I feel that values will still go down because of legacy and vintage players dumping their copies.
the market is way more saturated with DTT than Vintage and legacy players.
I'm not sure if Wizards is daft or what but I believe Brainstorm is the bigger "problem" than dig. Ask any Legacy experts you know of and they may tell you that our little U spell has been running away with it for eternity. lol
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
How is DTT banned in legacy? It does absolutely nothing broken in that format at all. Still, so strange that I find it really anemic in standard, especially since I find myself wanting more than 2 cards at times, whereas in the eternal it seems to be banned. Even when ti doesn't do anything broken. It's just the only draw spell that can see play since legacy stops usually at 3 or 4 mana.
How is DTT banned in legacy? It does absolutely nothing broken in that format at all. Still, so strange that I find it really anemic in standard, especially since I find myself wanting more than 2 cards at times, whereas in the eternal it seems to be banned. Even when ti doesn't do anything broken. It's just the only draw spell that can see play since legacy stops usually at 3 or 4 mana.
You must not play legacy. Most players new it was coming, even expected it months ago.
How is DTT banned in legacy? It does absolutely nothing broken in that format at all. Still, so strange that I find it really anemic in standard, especially since I find myself wanting more than 2 cards at times, whereas in the eternal it seems to be banned. Even when ti doesn't do anything broken. It's just the only draw spell that can see play since legacy stops usually at 3 or 4 mana.
You must not play legacy. Most players new it was coming, even expected it months ago.
I have played legacy, and I know its not that powerful, it's literally just only playable because it can cost 2.
How is DTT banned in legacy? It does absolutely nothing broken in that format at all. Still, so strange that I find it really anemic in standard, especially since I find myself wanting more than 2 cards at times, whereas in the eternal it seems to be banned. Even when ti doesn't do anything broken. It's just the only draw spell that can see play since legacy stops usually at 3 or 4 mana.
You must not play legacy. Most players new it was coming, even expected it months ago.
I have played legacy, and I know its not that powerful, it's literally just only playable because it can cost 2.
Have you read the card Impulse? Now compare it to DTT, which in Legacy is almost always cast for two after turn 3. It's obvious why it was banned. Not to mention, that it was often cast for free with Omniscience. Or let you fill your hand up after ripping it off the top.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
I'm not sure if Wizards is daft or what but I believe Brainstorm is the bigger "problem" than dig. Ask any Legacy experts you know of and they may tell you that our little U spell has been running away with it for eternity. lol
If you banned brainstorm, legacy would just be called "Old land modern"
If you banned brainstorm, legacy would just be called "Old land modern" that also happens to have force of will and ponder and misdirection and tendrils and black vise and show and tell and exhume and goblin warchief and wastelands and Gaea's cradle and ...
Fixed that quote for you. I for one could very much live without brainstorm.
If you banned brainstorm, legacy would just be called "Old land modern" that also happens to have force of will and ponder and misdirection and tendrils and black vise and show and tell and exhume and goblin warchief and wastelands and Gaea's cradle and ...
Fixed that quote for you. I for one could very much live without brainstorm.
Yes,standardis a creature durdle fest, there is almost no other competitive strategies to play. And yes the non creature spells do generally suck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
If you banned brainstorm, legacy would just be called "Old land modern" that also happens to have force of will and ponder and misdirection and tendrils and black vise and show and tell and exhume and goblin warchief and wastelands and Gaea's cradle and ...
Fixed that quote for you. I for one could very much live without brainstorm.
Why in the hell would you get rid of brainstorm? Legacy is the place for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
I don't play legacy, but I find it interesting that people are calling for the banning of Brainstorm. I still remember when Brainstorm was restricted in Vintage and a lot of people quit playing the format and moved on to legacy since you could still play 4 copies of BS there.
Locally the Vintage scene dried up after that and only up until recently did people start to play the format again around me. So even though I don't play legacy, I would hope they don't ban it because I could see the same thing happen there.
As for Black Vise coming off the list, I think that's a good choice. I've seen people talk about this for awhile now and it seemed that everyone was in agreement that it was safe for legacy now. It will be nice to see if the card is still powerful enough to find a home in some decks, while still not being to powerful for the format.
I'm also pumped that Thirst for Knowledge is unrestricted again. I think they restricted to many blue draw spells around the time Brainstorm got restricted and they should consider taking more off the list; like Ponder.
I play Maverick and the only other Legacy player in my area plays Omni-Tell so I am SUPER okay with Dig being banned.
Black Vise being unbanned sounds like music to my ears but they may have awakened a sleeping giant. It still only sounds SB worthy since it does almost nothing against aggro strats. Can't wait till I see Shardless players not cast their Ancestral Visions in the face of a Black Vise. So juicy. Nearly all decks are gonna have to devote quite a few slots to Black Vise because Legacy seems to be all about how many times you can cast Brainstorm in a single game. I can't wait till they ban Brainstorm.
Also, what is it about Brainstorm just simply deserving play in Legacy? Somehow people have this idea that the nature of Legacy is Brainstorm. I can say that the nature of Legacy is Delver of Secrets but that doesn't make me any more right than someone else who thinks it's Goblin Lackey.
I play Maverick and the only other Legacy player in my area plays Omni-Tell so I am SUPER okay with Dig being banned.
Black Vise being unbanned sounds like music to my ears but they may have awakened a sleeping giant. It still only sounds SB worthy since it does almost nothing against aggro strats. Can't wait till I see Shardless players not cast their Ancestral Visions in the face of a Black Vise. So juicy. Nearly all decks are gonna have to devote quite a few slots to Black Vise because Legacy seems to be all about how many times you can cast Brainstorm in a single game. I can't wait till they ban Brainstorm.
Also, what is it about Brainstorm just simply deserving play in Legacy? Somehow people have this idea that the nature of Legacy is Brainstorm. I can say that the nature of Legacy is Delver of Secrets but that doesn't make me any more right than someone else who thinks it's Goblin Lackey.
The reason they don't touch Brainstorm in Legacy even though it is certainly the most powerful card left is that it is the most powerful card left. It is also a card that requires tremendous amounts of thought and can be played improperly lots of times. A lot of the older cards that got banned (not so much DTT) did not require that level of thought and were the most powerful card in the format at the time (Treasure Cruise). People like the idea of playing with an extremely powerful card, but that still requires you to have brains to play. It's not just I'll pay U and remove these 7 cards to draw three. I do believe that DTT took the bullet for Brainstorm in this case, but that is going to continue to happen in the future. If any other blue card gets printed that puts Brainstorm decks over the top, they will ban the new card and let Brainstorm survive because it is a powerful skill testing card.
It seems to me it will do more than 3 damage over the time its in play.
I'm also willing to admit the later in the game it gets the worse it will be.
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW
Super glad about dig. Just further proves that they won't ban brainstorm though.
Thirst unrestriction was long overdue, as soon as dack fayden was printed they could have unrestricted it as dack practically invalidates it.
Dig restricted in vintage is unsurprising. It was by far the best there in that format because when you flip over 7 cards and get 2 busted restricted cards with dig it was absurd or it just pulled you way too far ahead. DTT is just as broken as cruise in vintage if not better and cruise was restricted there during FRF prerelease.
Currently Playing:
Retired
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Surprised to see Black Vise come off, but it will be interesting to see how it changes things.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
You must not play legacy. Most players new it was coming, even expected it months ago.
I have played legacy, and I know its not that powerful, it's literally just only playable because it can cost 2.
If you banned brainstorm, legacy would just be called "Old land modern"
Fixed that quote for you. I for one could very much live without brainstorm.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Yeah, that's what I said, old land modern.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Why in the hell would you get rid of brainstorm? Legacy is the place for it.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
https://www.facebook.com/clymer.hammitt/media_set?set=a.356235817917819.1073741833.100005942112103&type=3
OTHER ORIGINAL COMIC UNRELATED TO MAGIC: 5Head©
https://www.facebook.com/clymer.hammitt/media_set?set=a.110946379113432.1073741826.100005942112103&type=3
If you enjoy these, feel free to add me as a friend and get notified when new comics are loaded
But it's restricted there
Locally the Vintage scene dried up after that and only up until recently did people start to play the format again around me. So even though I don't play legacy, I would hope they don't ban it because I could see the same thing happen there.
As for Black Vise coming off the list, I think that's a good choice. I've seen people talk about this for awhile now and it seemed that everyone was in agreement that it was safe for legacy now. It will be nice to see if the card is still powerful enough to find a home in some decks, while still not being to powerful for the format.
I'm also pumped that Thirst for Knowledge is unrestricted again. I think they restricted to many blue draw spells around the time Brainstorm got restricted and they should consider taking more off the list; like Ponder.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Black Vise being unbanned sounds like music to my ears but they may have awakened a sleeping giant. It still only sounds SB worthy since it does almost nothing against aggro strats. Can't wait till I see Shardless players not cast their Ancestral Visions in the face of a Black Vise. So juicy. Nearly all decks are gonna have to devote quite a few slots to Black Vise because Legacy seems to be all about how many times you can cast Brainstorm in a single game. I can't wait till they ban Brainstorm.
Also, what is it about Brainstorm just simply deserving play in Legacy? Somehow people have this idea that the nature of Legacy is Brainstorm. I can say that the nature of Legacy is Delver of Secrets but that doesn't make me any more right than someone else who thinks it's Goblin Lackey.
I'm genuinely surprised that Brainstorm isn't banned right with DTT, but I'll take it. My newly built Shardless BUG deck just got so much better.
The reason they don't touch Brainstorm in Legacy even though it is certainly the most powerful card left is that it is the most powerful card left. It is also a card that requires tremendous amounts of thought and can be played improperly lots of times. A lot of the older cards that got banned (not so much DTT) did not require that level of thought and were the most powerful card in the format at the time (Treasure Cruise). People like the idea of playing with an extremely powerful card, but that still requires you to have brains to play. It's not just I'll pay U and remove these 7 cards to draw three. I do believe that DTT took the bullet for Brainstorm in this case, but that is going to continue to happen in the future. If any other blue card gets printed that puts Brainstorm decks over the top, they will ban the new card and let Brainstorm survive because it is a powerful skill testing card.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!