That's what I said. 184 cards in OGW 10 mythic 35 rare 60 uncommon 70 common equals 175 there are 9 cards leftover from what you're saying Same Stoddard reported those 9 are most like commons and when he said there are an extra 10 commons he was probably rounding up from 9.
I took Journey into Nyx as the default for commons (60 commons of 165 cards), you are taking Fate Reforged as the default (70 commons of 185 cards)
If you're right, maybe it could be a print sheet of 77 x 1 + 2 x 22 = 121
I seriously doubt that. they have been very resistant to using C1/C2 structures for a long time now. The reason FR had 70 was because 10 of the commons were on a different sheet.
That's what I said. 184 cards in OGW 10 mythic 35 rare 60 uncommon 70 common equals 175 there are 9 cards leftover from what you're saying Same Stoddard reported those 9 are most like commons and when he said there are an extra 10 commons he was probably rounding up from 9.
I took Journey into Nyx as the default for commons (60 commons of 165 cards), you are taking Fate Reforged as the default (70 commons of 185 cards)
If you're right, maybe it could be a print sheet of 77 x 1 + 2 x 22 = 121
I know they said that OGW was a little bigger as a result of the switch from 3 sets to to 2 but I don't kno9w if they confirmed if that's the new normal though for small sets
I'm talking about <> as a cost. That will be like hybrid, pulled out as needed, but not 'common'.
Yes it's deciduous not evergreen. I expect to see it in Artifact themed sets like if/when we go to Kaladesh potentially Vryn given the Mage Ring Network
I don't think they make this change if they don't at the very least have an inkling of when they are going to use it again.
I have to say this was well done by the Marketing department. Leak it really early See if the concept is grokable with no info at all, see that a lot of people get what they are trying to do, but it's not universal. Spoil it at the World cup 3 weeks before official spoilers so they have enough time to explain it to everyone especially those who don't go looking for spoilers. I expect Mirrorpool and/or the expedition lands will be spoiled in the next two days
re: Why was the colorless mana symbol added in OGW and not BFZ?
That was a subject of huge debate. I was on the BFZ side but my side did not win out. The winning argument said that introducing before it was mechanically relevant would confuse even more players than having them mix in limited. It also made the splash when it was supposed to be the focus.
Well it sounds like they certainly had some problems with the development of this block, and BFZ got the shaft in more ways then were obvious when it was spoiled and people started comparing it to homelands. On one hand, a serious disconnect between the sets of your block (in a non-intended way) is a big turd of design, but on the other hand, maybe cutting loose with everything from BFZ and approaching OGW as totally new will take some of the sour aftertaste away, because there wasn't anything in BFZ worth salvaging. Gives OGW a better shot to be unique and impactful and leave players with better impressions.
I know they said that OGW was a little bigger as a result of the switch from 3 sets to to 2 but I don't kno9w if they confirmed if that's the new normal though for small sets
Colorless basically just becomes a 5th "color" when they want that's 100% backwards compatable. Hybrid can't be evergreen because it has very limited design space unlike colorless which can do anything.
Colorless matters isn't a tool that can be used too often. It has far too much mana support for that to happen.
Why not? We already have 2 colorless matters cards and they certainly aren't the cutting edge of power. There shouldn't be any problem unless they print stronger stuff than what they'd print with colored mana. Colorless basically just becomes a 5th "color" when they want that's 100% backwards compatable. Hybrid can't be evergreen because it has very limited design space unlike colorless which can do anything.
Colorless has vast design space, but narrow developmental space. As I said, colorless has the best mana support of any other mana types, better than green even. It doesn't have to surpass other colors in card quality to be busted. It doesn't even have to be on even footing. With cards like Mutavault, Sol Ring, and even Temple of the False God, any deficiencies that a colorless card would run into could be easily remedied by its awesome mana support. An OK colorless 2-drop is a rock awesome 1-drop with Ancient Tomb, for instance. That same card could be adjusted as a 3-drop, but it would then likely be too weak in other formats without all the ridiculously powerful colorless mana production like Limited and Standard. R&D could also easily just reserve the powerful colorless cards to 7+ mana, but that just severely hampers design space. How many times can design make a colorless card that's on par or just a bit below Karn, Liberated, though still noticeable? Or Dev can say screw it, let Modern and Eternal formats fend for themselves, and make all the wowtastic (or even just decent) colorless cards they want with only Standard and Limited in their mind. The prospect of a Colorless Control deck or a Colorless Zoo deck in these older formats may sound exciting initially, but that is a recipe for metagame staleness. Why play any other mana types when Colorless has so much untapped mana sources that either far more efficient in mana production or do more than just let you play cards? To put it shortly, all the colorless mana support we've had up until now is developmentally constraining for colorless matters to show up regularly.
I really doubt legacy and vintage are much of a concern and modern doesn't really have nutso colorless mana. I mean look at what happened when they tried to make a nod to legacy/vintage. A large chunk of them have either been unplayable or banned. I'm pretty sure they'd just axe fast colorless mana in legacy before they'd hamper future cards due to a few op mistakes from the distant past. Of course, I highly doubt colorless zoo would be all that problematic. Goblins and Affinity are faster than normal aggro and don't see much play because they still fold to combo.
Probably already mentioned but can anyone briefly describe why the new Wastes card is being printed. Why not just use an original 5 basic land for colorless. I'm not seeing the advantage of ever using this card and i don't see it affecting anything in eternal.
Because a traditional basic land cannot satisfy a {C} cost.
And if you are playing Commander using a colorless commander, you cannot use any of the normal basic lands. And you get rekt by nonbasic land hate. Now - those players can play some Wastes and be happy.
Other than that... well... it probably won't affect any constructed format other than a colorless-commander deck.
Probably already mentioned but can anyone briefly describe why the new Wastes card is being printed. Why not just use an original 5 basic land for colorless. I'm not seeing the advantage of ever using this card and i don't see it affecting anything in eternal.
Well, this was all mentioned before, but the main reason why a colorless basic is needed is Commander. People who want to play colorless Commanders cannot use any normal basic lands, they can't use most of fetch effects like Terramorphic Expanse or Armillary Sphere and they are unfairly penalized by nonbasic land hate. Wastes resolves this problem.
Someone quote me on this: The Waste tapping for a diamond colorless provides one of any color to cast a colorless spell. Like snow, but can be used as any color for the new colored colorless cards.
Mate I think you got it wrong. MaRo said, and the new spoiler reprints confirm <> is one unit of colorless.
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We need a minimum of at least 2 Colorless mana, and 8 of anything else?
Try to think of the <> symbol like any other colored mana symbol. You can only pay <> with something that generated <>, but you can pay 8 with 8 mana of any kind. You can pay <> mana on <> costs, or <> mana on 1 costs. So you need 2 colorless mana and 8 mana of any color or colorless
Try to think of the <> symbol like any other colored mana symbol. You can only pay <> with something that generated <>, but you can pay 8 with 8 mana of any kind. You can pay <> mana on <> costs, or <> mana on 1 costs. So you need 2 colorless mana and 8 mana of any color or colorless
This is why I don't really like this mechanic. They've basically just said "Ok, Kozilek and his buddies cost purple mana, and all cards that produced colorless receive errata to produce purple mana instead." It's clunky, explaining the mechanic to novice players is going to be a nightmare, and it doesn't feel like a "colorless matters" mechanic at all.
Why would it confuse novices? Colorless is basically just a color now except for a few corner cases where being a "color" matters. Just don't introduce them to color matters cards first thing and you should be fine. It's the most elegant way to do purple because it has almost 23 years worth of cards to back it up just like every other color.
I really doubt legacy and vintage are much of a concern and modern doesn't really have nutso colorless mana. I mean look at what happened when they tried to make a nod to legacy/vintage. A large chunk of them have either been unplayable or banned. I'm pretty sure they'd just axe fast colorless mana in legacy before they'd hamper future cards due to a few op mistakes from the distant past. Of course, I highly doubt colorless zoo would be all that problematic. Goblins and Affinity are faster than normal aggro and don't see much play because they still fold to combo.
You really underestimate how much more powerful colorless lands are compared to colored ones. There's no such thing as a White Tectonic Edge or a Black Mutavault that comes in untapped or a Green Zoetic Cavern, and for good reason. Colorlessness is meant to be a tradeoff for utility. By treating colorless as a 6th color, that tradeoff is nonexistent. One "color" merely gets a higher quality land base than any other color could get. This bring up another problem, even if you plan to balance colorlessness around their superior mana base, how do you do that? Paying for <> comes with some commitment, so <> cards should be stronger than stuff like Stonework Puma and Bronze Sable. However, because colorless producing lands are so good, these cards also must be weaker than colored cards. Stronger than artifacts but weaker than colored cards. That is a thin line that the Magic dev team has to work with. Compound that with all the other balancing concerns with adding another color, such as draft strategies, cross color synergy, adequate mana bases, card cycles, and rarity splitting.
There's another significant issue with colorlessness, and that's with story. How would the creative team justify colorless matters in Innistrad? In an Egyptian plane? In Shandalar? They could try to fit the Eldrazi or Ugin in these or come up with a new meaning for colorlessness, but that gets repetitive and likely hamfisted. So what if Ugin built a toolshed in a Norse plane or if Emrakrul took a brief pitstop at Dominaria some time ago? Also, by turning colorlessness into a regularity, it diminishes the mystery of the meaning of colorlessness in the Magic world.
That's because they're NOT making costs a common thing. All colorless-mana-producers are being changed to but as a COST will be a once-in-a-while thing.
Like how hybrid only gets to come out to play every other year or so (Rav 1.0, FUT, Shadowmoor, Rav 2.0, ALR, FRF)
The design space is a tightrope, as you said, shinquickman. They'll only let it out to play in a world where it makes sense.
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I seriously doubt that. they have been very resistant to using C1/C2 structures for a long time now. The reason FR had 70 was because 10 of the commons were on a different sheet.
If there is any kind of colorless mana generating creature or artifact, it will show as producing "<>" or "<><>" instead of "1" or "2".
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Spoiler EditorI know they said that OGW was a little bigger as a result of the switch from 3 sets to to 2 but I don't kno9w if they confirmed if that's the new normal though for small sets
Yes it's deciduous not evergreen. I expect to see it in Artifact themed sets like if/when we go to Kaladesh potentially Vryn given the Mage Ring Network
I don't think they make this change if they don't at the very least have an inkling of when they are going to use it again.
I have to say this was well done by the Marketing department. Leak it really early See if the concept is grokable with no info at all, see that a lot of people get what they are trying to do, but it's not universal. Spoil it at the World cup 3 weeks before official spoilers so they have enough time to explain it to everyone especially those who don't go looking for spoilers. I expect Mirrorpool and/or the expedition lands will be spoiled in the next two days
Well it sounds like they certainly had some problems with the development of this block, and BFZ got the shaft in more ways then were obvious when it was spoiled and people started comparing it to homelands. On one hand, a serious disconnect between the sets of your block (in a non-intended way) is a big turd of design, but on the other hand, maybe cutting loose with everything from BFZ and approaching OGW as totally new will take some of the sour aftertaste away, because there wasn't anything in BFZ worth salvaging. Gives OGW a better shot to be unique and impactful and leave players with better impressions.
Yes, Rosewater did
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/128588372698/in-this-new-bba-world-is-184-the-new-default
And if you are playing Commander using a colorless commander, you cannot use any of the normal basic lands. And you get rekt by nonbasic land hate. Now - those players can play some Wastes and be happy.
Other than that... well... it probably won't affect any constructed format other than a colorless-commander deck.
Well, this was all mentioned before, but the main reason why a colorless basic is needed is Commander. People who want to play colorless Commanders cannot use any normal basic lands, they can't use most of fetch effects like Terramorphic Expanse or Armillary Sphere and they are unfairly penalized by nonbasic land hate. Wastes resolves this problem.
Art is life itself.
We need a minimum of at least 2 Colorless mana, and 8 of anything else?
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
2 colorless, and 8 of anything (colored or colorless).
Try to think of the <> symbol like any other colored mana symbol. You can only pay <> with something that generated <>, but you can pay 8 with 8 mana of any kind. You can pay <> mana on <> costs, or <> mana on 1 costs. So you need 2 colorless mana and 8 mana of any color or colorless
So I can use Urza lands to cast him provided I find 3 more mana somewhere?
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
This is why I don't really like this mechanic. They've basically just said "Ok, Kozilek and his buddies cost purple mana, and all cards that produced colorless receive errata to produce purple mana instead." It's clunky, explaining the mechanic to novice players is going to be a nightmare, and it doesn't feel like a "colorless matters" mechanic at all.
There's another significant issue with colorlessness, and that's with story. How would the creative team justify colorless matters in Innistrad? In an Egyptian plane? In Shandalar? They could try to fit the Eldrazi or Ugin in these or come up with a new meaning for colorlessness, but that gets repetitive and likely hamfisted. So what if Ugin built a toolshed in a Norse plane or if Emrakrul took a brief pitstop at Dominaria some time ago? Also, by turning colorlessness into a regularity, it diminishes the mystery of the meaning of colorlessness in the Magic world.
Like how hybrid only gets to come out to play every other year or so (Rav 1.0, FUT, Shadowmoor, Rav 2.0, ALR, FRF)
The design space is a tightrope, as you said, shinquickman. They'll only let it out to play in a world where it makes sense.