Yeah, this is looking like preorder cancellation apocalypse.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I really really hate the way the internet becomes so salty, but this is the time to be as loudly salty as possible. We've been complaining from day one about expensive packs with valueless cards in them. Wizards actively and purposefully has refused to listen. It's like they're trying to kill the masters product because they want to return to core sets.
It's not like there aren't solutions.
The obvious solution: carefully curate the set so that it is guaranteed to contain a satisfactory minimum value.
The right solution: reduce cost of packs to 6 dollars.
The clever solution: Take a hint from Unhinged, and include bonuses. For example, a foil land with randomized art from the last decade in every pack.
The disturbing thing is not them making the mistake, it's them repeatedly making the same mistake despite the fact the the community is vocally of one mind on the matter. I don't want masters sets to die, because I really like when a reprint destroys the value of an overpriced card. It seems likely that this is the last masters set.
You should read Gavin Verhey's article from around a week ago about the future of Masters sets. I have never seen a more clear indication of a company simply not getting it than what his article spelled out.
Basically...
1) Iconic Masters was actually great, and we're all stupid for not liking it.
2) The reason it was a sales disaster was because of the way the spoilers came out from Hascon months in advance. No other reasons. These are not the droids you're looking for.
3) R&D has been taken over by a bunch of draft nerds, and creating a draft format they enjoy is all they really care about.
Not only does Wizards completely fail to understand why IMA bombed, and why M25 is extremely likely to bomb as well at this point, but they have doubled down on the mentality that has directly caused it.
I basically quit playing constructed Magic several years ago because, IMO, Standard has been dog feces since BFZ was released. I actually hated Theros block too, but Khans kept me going. Between the constant banhammers and terrible set design, I'm definitely glad I spared my wallet the money I used to pump into the game.
Eh, the main problem with Iconic Masters was the commons/uncommon had terrible value.
M25 at least has decent chaft. In Iconic masters the "filler" wasn't even good.
I really really hate the way the internet becomes so salty, but this is the time to be as loudly salty as possible. We've been complaining from day one about expensive packs with valueless cards in them. Wizards actively and purposefully has refused to listen. It's like they're trying to kill the masters product because they want to return to core sets.
It's not like there aren't solutions.
The obvious solution: carefully curate the set so that it is guaranteed to contain a satisfactory minimum value.
The right solution: reduce cost of packs to 6 dollars.
The clever solution: Take a hint from Unhinged, and include bonuses. For example, a foil land with randomized art from the last decade in every pack.
The disturbing thing is not them making the mistake, it's them repeatedly making the same mistake despite the fact the the community is vocally of one mind on the matter. I don't want masters sets to die, because I really like when a reprint destroys the value of an overpriced card. It seems likely that this is the last masters set.
You should read Gavin Verhey's article from around a week ago about the future of Masters sets. I have never seen a more clear indication of a company simply not getting it than what his article spelled out.
Basically...
1) Iconic Masters was actually great, and we're all stupid for not liking it.
2) The reason it was a sales disaster was because of the way the spoilers came out from Hascon months in advance. No other reasons. These are not the droids you're looking for.
3) R&D has been taken over by a bunch of draft nerds, and creating a draft format they enjoy is all they really care about.
Not only does Wizards completely fail to understand why IMA bombed, and why M25 is extremely likely to bomb as well at this point, but they have doubled down on the mentality that has directly caused it.
I basically quit playing constructed Magic several years ago because, IMO, Standard has been dog feces since BFZ was released. I actually hated Theros block too, but Khans kept me going. Between the constant banhammers and terrible set design, I'm definitely glad I spared my wallet the money I used to pump into the game.
The silver lining about this set is that when it tanks in value, and people open it to see that 'value rare' has dropped 40% I can slip in and trade for it or buy it up on the cheap.
Imagine opening your box and finding your mythic is Tree of Redemption. Haha. Sad.
Not as bad as opening up original MMA and only finding dragons
Yeah but you had...
Cryptic Command, Pact of Negation, Doubling Season, Aether Vial, Engineered Explosives, Arcbound Ravager, Chalice of the Void, Tooth and Nail, Kira, and Blinkmoth Nexus held on for pack value, which at the time was 6.99$ MSRP
And... Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Lava Spike, Eternal Witness, and Spell Snare, which even weeks after their printing maintained a 3-7$ price tag.
So while a box was around 160 to 180, you could recoup your investment pretty easy, and the set also provided TONS of playable cards.
Why am I getting the sinking feeling we are going to see something like Angelic Destiny or Sublime Archangel in the white mythic slot. Tree of Redemption for green? This set might be worth the same amount as iconic masters in a few months time.
The final white mythic is a virtual lock to be an Elspeth (probably Knight-Errant, but I wouldn't rule out Sun's Champion either).
Every masters set has had two planeswalkers except IMA, which had none. I'm sure this set will have two as well.
Good point, there is a lot of token gen in white, Elspeth make sense.
Colt47 was just about on the money on this one. Turns out the white mythic is the original white version of Akroma.
Imagine opening your box and finding your mythic is Tree of Redemption. Haha. Sad.
Not as bad as opening up original MMA and only finding dragons
Yeah but you had...
Cryptic Command, Pact of Negation, Doubling Season, Aether Vial, Engineered Explosives, Arcbound Ravager, Chalice of the Void, Tooth and Nail, Kira, and Blinkmoth Nexus held on for pack value, which at the time was 6.99$ MSRP
And... Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Lava Spike, Eternal Witness, and Spell Snare, which even weeks after their printing maintained a 3-7$ price tag.
So while a box was around 160 to 180, you could recoup your investment pretty easy, and the set also provided TONS of playable cards.
That's also why pack prices are 10$ starting...
MMA was never sold for 6.99. Prices spiked to 15$ in the first month
That's also why M25 is better due to better uncommons/commons.
I just calculated the EV of a box, as they stand right now. I used MTG Goldfish's method of calculating. I came up with an EV of $311.19. Even taking Jace out of the equation, I get $285. Now I know the prices for cards will go down a bit more, but I think an EV of $200+ might stick.
Imagine opening your box and finding your mythic is Tree of Redemption. Haha. Sad.
Not as bad as opening up original MMA and only finding dragons
Yeah but you had...
Cryptic Command, Pact of Negation, Doubling Season, Aether Vial, Engineered Explosives, Arcbound Ravager, Chalice of the Void, Tooth and Nail, Kira, and Blinkmoth Nexus held on for pack value, which at the time was 6.99$ MSRP
And... Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Lava Spike, Eternal Witness, and Spell Snare, which even weeks after their printing maintained a 3-7$ price tag.
So while a box was around 160 to 180, you could recoup your investment pretty easy, and the set also provided TONS of playable cards.
That's also why pack prices are 10$ starting...
MMA was never sold for 6.99. Prices spiked to 15$ in the first week.
That's also why M25 is better due to better uncommons/commons.
So according to MTGGoldfish which has price trends only as far back as to 2015
Around the time of Magic Origins it was selling for 350$ a box on average.
24 x 15 as you so claimed, would be 360 a box, ten dollars higher than the earliest listed price on MTGGoldfish, and two years after the print run was over.
So either you're recalling things incorrectly, recalling them at a different time frame, or over-inflating the actual cost of the packs at the time to try and make your point.
In either case, you are summarily wrong.
Also with a bit of research I found that Modern Masters drafts averaged between 25$ and 30$
Imagine opening your box and finding your mythic is Tree of Redemption. Haha. Sad.
Not as bad as opening up original MMA and only finding dragons
Yeah but you had...
Cryptic Command, Pact of Negation, Doubling Season, Aether Vial, Engineered Explosives, Arcbound Ravager, Chalice of the Void, Tooth and Nail, Kira, and Blinkmoth Nexus held on for pack value, which at the time was 6.99$ MSRP
And... Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Lava Spike, Eternal Witness, and Spell Snare, which even weeks after their printing maintained a 3-7$ price tag.
So while a box was around 160 to 180, you could recoup your investment pretty easy, and the set also provided TONS of playable cards.
That's also why pack prices are 10$ starting...
MMA was never sold for 6.99. Prices spiked to 15$ in the first week.
That's also why M25 is better due to better uncommons/commons.
So according to MTGGoldfish which has price trends only as far back as to 2015
Around the time of Magic Origins it was selling for 350$ a box on average.
24 x 15 as you so claimed, would be 360 a box, ten dollars higher than the earliest listed price on MTGGoldfish, and two years after the print run was over.
So either you're recalling things incorrectly, recalling them at a different time frame, or over-inflating the actual cost of the packs at the time to try and make your point.
In either case, you are summarily wrong.
Also with a bit of research I found that Modern Masters drafts averaged between 25$ and 30$
Given that the go-to Prize Support is 5$ per person for store credit, packs at the time sold between 7$ to 8.50$
Thanks for playing though.
1) You didn't figure in sales tax.
2) Your secondary link was misleading. It includes only events in the first couple of weeks of set release. Price didn't start going up until after the first month. (People realized not enough printing to meet demand). It was then that 15$ became the norm.
EDIT: I had a typo. Meant the first month. I was being over dramatic to prove a point.
Regardless: The retail was less then 10$ So the sale price was already on a massive upward projectory in the first few weeks and continued to sore until it settled at about the 15$ mark.
2) Your secondary link was misleading. It includes only events in the first couple of weeks of set release. Price didn't start going up until after the first month. (People realized not enough printing to meet demand). It was then that 15$ became the norm.
EDIT: I had a typo. Meant the first month. I was being over dramatic to prove a point.
Sales tax, at a generous 10% is... 27.50 / 33.00$, still at MSRP (MSRP doesn't include sales tax either but good try!)
Also, cute 'edit' I provide evidence of the first week as you claim to the contrary andddd now it's after the first month? Uh-uh.
You want to make a claim that they were 15$ a pack to draft with between July and October? Bring evidence. Otherwise I've made my point and my case.
The Pack EV on Modern Masters 2013 was higher and had a better return per dollar spent than this set, even with a Dragon in your box.
A lot of the pack/box ev of MM1 came up on its tremendous uncommons and even commons. Kitchen Finks, Path to Exile, Manamorphose, Street Wraith, Eternal Witness, Spell Snare, Lava Spike... we don't know yet what value those slots will hold in this set, we've seen a minority of uncommons and commons.
2) Your secondary link was misleading. It includes only events in the first couple of weeks of set release. Price didn't start going up until after the first month. (People realized not enough printing to meet demand). It was then that 15$ became the norm.
EDIT: I had a typo. Meant the first month. I was being over dramatic to prove a point.
Sales tax, at a generous 10% is... 27.50 / 33.00$, still at MSRP (MSRP doesn't include sales tax either but good try!)
Also, cute 'edit' I provide evidence of the first week as you claim to the contrary andddd now it's after the first month? Uh-uh.
You want to make a claim that they were 15$ a pack to draft with between July and October? Bring evidence. Otherwise I've made my point and my case.
The Pack EV on Modern Masters 2013 was higher and had a better return per dollar spent than this set, even with a Dragon in your box.
It wasn't a cute edit. It was clearly a decisive. I even mentioned the edit so you wouldn't feel the need to point it out so we could attempt to avoid any straw-man arguments.
But here we are.
And yes. MMA had insane value. But it doesn't mean sets that came after are worthless or not worth it simply becuase they don't have the same value.
It wasn't a cute edit. It was clearly a decisive. I even mentioned the edit so you wouldn't feel the need to point it out so we could attempt to avoid any straw-man arguments.
But here we are.
And yes. MMA had insane value. But it doesn't mean sets that came after are worthless or not worth it simply becuase they don't have the same value.
M17 and eternal masters were considered, overall, a success. (m17 was arguably better then m15).
It's not a straw-man argument to point out that you made a statement, and then retracted it to try and prove your point from a revised statement.
I clearly pointed out that MTGGoldfish had boxes listed at 350$ prior to Magic Origins, which was TWO YEARS after the print run of Modern Masters had ended.
Yet you still maintain that they were 15$ a pack? By that logic MTGGoldfish should have the lowest listed price in 2015 at '360$' your argument is bogus based on that simple fact.
Your anecdotal 'evidence' that you bought packs at 15$ a pop from the obviously flawed recollection may only be accounted for an LGS that was not being competitive in the marketplace. So just because some Local Shops MAY have sold the packs for 15$ a pop after release does not mean that the economic trend of Modern Masters at release was dictated by a few Local Shops, especially with the prevalence of the internet.
And while my statement isn't that 'all other sets are worthless', this set, Masters 25, is particularly worthless.
It wasn't a cute edit. It was clearly a decisive. I even mentioned the edit so you wouldn't feel the need to point it out so we could attempt to avoid any straw-man arguments.
But here we are.
And yes. MMA had insane value. But it doesn't mean sets that came after are worthless or not worth it simply becuase they don't have the same value.
M17 and eternal masters were considered, overall, a success. (m17 was arguably better then m15).
It's not a straw-man argument to point out that you made a statement, and then retracted it to try and prove your point from a revised statement.
I clearly pointed out that MTGGoldfish had boxes listed at 350$ prior to Magic Origins, which was TWO YEARS after the print run of Modern Masters had ended.
Yet you still maintain that they were 15$ a pack? By that logic MTGGoldfish should have the lowest listed price in 2015 at '360$' your argument is bogus based on that simple fact.
Your anecdotal 'evidence' that you bought packs at 15$ a pop from the obviously flawed recollection may only be accounted for an LGS that was not being competitive in the marketplace. So just because some Local Shops MAY have sold the packs for 15$ a pop after release does not mean that the economic trend of Modern Masters at release was dictated by a few Local Shops, especially with the prevalence of the internet.
And while my statement isn't that 'all other sets are worthless', this set, Masters 25, is particularly worthless.
I wasn't trying to prove a point. I realized I had over-stated the fact and retracted.
You're the only one who is still trying to prove a point by pointing out a typo. Which isn't even part of the current arguement and/or debate.
(definition of straw-man arguement).
That's why I clearly... clearly identified that error as soon as I realized I made it.
The price in the very beginning was 350$. That's... 14.58 per pack.
Are you really going to criticize me for rounding up? Really?
Did you even look at your own data point?
Yes there were "periods" where you could get the original modern masters for less than 15$ a back...
but if you average the price increase the product faced in the first month it reached an average of 15$ per pack.
So yes. You are using a straw-man argument because the exact source you posted proves what I was saying ._.
Well if they keep making these reprint master sets ($10/pck) the way they are (supposedly for draft), Im gonna be saving lots of money.
I am a Gambling Nostalgic Kitchen Table Whale who spends multiple hundreds on new sets "just for the fun".
I would never complain about value or junk rares in a standard set, they cant all be good or the creep wouldve ran out along time ago, BUT for Masters sets that are supposed to give me a chance at older more powerful cards and at $10, Yeah I want value....thisis just bad.
And they used very questionable arts and no originals to scratch my nostalgic itch either.
Honestly I am just SAD and was excited to crack alot of "25th Anniversary Set Masters" and now......
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
I just calculated the EV of a box, as they stand right now. I used MTG Goldfish's method of calculating. I came up with an EV of $311.19. Even taking Jace out of the equation, I get $285. Now I know the prices for cards will go down a bit more, but I think an EV of $200+ might stick.
The value is also heavily inflated by Imperial Recruiter. He will drop to around 25-30 from his current 145.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Well if they keep making these reprint master sets ($10/pck) the way they are (supposedly for draft), Im gonna be saving lots of money.
I am a Gambling Nostalgic Kitchen Table Whale who spends multiple hundreds on new sets "just for the fun".
I would never complain about value or junk rares in a standard set, they cant all be good or the creep wouldve ran out along time ago, BUT for Masters sets that are supposed to give me a chance at older more powerful cards and at $10, Yeah I want value....thisis just bad.
And they used very questionable arts and no originals to scratch my nostalgic itch either.
Honestly I am just SAD and was excited to crack alot of "25th Anniversary Set Masters" and now......
I agree, Iconic kinda started this trend. Trying to pass as an 'Iconic' or 'Anniversary' set but really just a way to print older cards in need of reprints. Effectively making it a Core Masters set. I fine with the proposition of buying a box and drafting with friends. Or just doing a sealed tourney or something. Problem is the price tag would turn my frugal kitchen table buds away from the proposition. I'm fine with these sets because I'm getting a handful of foil cards for my tier EDH decks, which is always a good thing lol.
Have to admit, so far I'm disappointed. There are some flavourful reprints and some cool cards, but nothing like the value I would've liked to see. Thus far I'm stoked to see the filter lands and Goblin War Drums. Otherwise, there's a lot of predictable reprints, and not a whole lot of chase cards. It seems like WOTC justify the cost simply on the back of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Imperial Recruiter. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
Have to admit, so far I'm disappointed. There are some flavourful reprints and some cool cards, but nothing like the value I would've liked to see. Thus far I'm stoked to see the filter lands and Goblin War Drums. Otherwise, there's a lot of predictable reprints, and not a whole lot of chase cards. It seems like WOTC justify the cost simply on the back of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Imperial Recruiter. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
I took a nice long break after the Modern Masters 17 release, you know the one that gave us the Zen Fetches on top of plenty of good cards.
That set was on fire, compared to this. I wont buy a single thing from this, not even to get secondary prints of what I play or anything because there is nearly nothing in this entire set that I even DO play.
Have to admit, so far I'm disappointed. There are some flavourful reprints and some cool cards, but nothing like the value I would've liked to see. Thus far I'm stoked to see the filter lands and Goblin War Drums. Otherwise, there's a lot of predictable reprints, and not a whole lot of chase cards. It seems like WOTC justify the cost simply on the back of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Imperial Recruiter. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
A+ man, or even Bloom Tender. Oh well we needed Tree of Redemption apparently; Not really sure why it's still at mythic, Trisk is at rare...
I would've LOVED Bloom Tender, and so would've Ghave.
I think they've chosen to really closely adhere to their theme of 'iconic cards from every single set'. Which has enabled them to set up for feeding us some janky ass bull***** instead of staples. I get that they can't overvalue the set, but it's kind of ridiculous how much dross there is so far. I also get that there is only half a set spoiled so far, I just can't see the rest redeeming the set at this point.
Have to admit, so far I'm disappointed. There are some flavourful reprints and some cool cards, but nothing like the value I would've liked to see. Thus far I'm stoked to see the filter lands and Goblin War Drums. Otherwise, there's a lot of predictable reprints, and not a whole lot of chase cards. It seems like WOTC justify the cost simply on the back of Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Imperial Recruiter. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
A+ man, or even Bloom Tender. Oh well we needed Tree of Redemption apparently; Not really sure why it's still at mythic, Trisk is at rare...
I would've LOVED Bloom Tender, and so would've Ghave.
I think they've chosen to really closely adhere to their theme of 'iconic cards from every single set'. Which has enabled them to set up for feeding us some janky ass bull***** instead of staples. I get that they can't overvalue the set, but it's kind of ridiculous how much dross there is so far. I also get that there is only half a set spoiled so far, I just can't see the rest redeeming the set at this point.
I'd say that they are printing less necessary staples. The filters are necessary IMO, but they have missed quite a few at this point in the spoilers; Not enough to turn me off, but enough to incur the salt of others...
I wasn't trying to prove a point. I realized I had over-stated the fact and retracted.
You're the only one who is still trying to prove a point by pointing out a typo. Which isn't even part of the current arguement and/or debate.
(definition of straw-man arguement).
The point of the discussion was that you claimed that the packs spiked to 15$ in the first week and undermined the EV of the cards in the pack.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Eh, the main problem with Iconic Masters was the commons/uncommon had terrible value.
M25 at least has decent chaft. In Iconic masters the "filler" wasn't even good.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The silver lining about this set is that when it tanks in value, and people open it to see that 'value rare' has dropped 40% I can slip in and trade for it or buy it up on the cheap.
Not as bad as opening up original MMA and only finding dragons
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Actually not, original MMA had an MSRP of $6.99/pack!
Yeah but you had...
Cryptic Command, Pact of Negation, Doubling Season, Aether Vial, Engineered Explosives, Arcbound Ravager, Chalice of the Void, Tooth and Nail, Kira, and Blinkmoth Nexus held on for pack value, which at the time was 6.99$ MSRP
And... Path to Exile, Lightning Helix, Lava Spike, Eternal Witness, and Spell Snare, which even weeks after their printing maintained a 3-7$ price tag.
So while a box was around 160 to 180, you could recoup your investment pretty easy, and the set also provided TONS of playable cards.
Colt47 was just about on the money on this one. Turns out the white mythic is the original white version of Akroma.
Corrupt Control B | Burn R | UG Turbofog UG | White Weenie W | GW Tethmos WG | BG Cycling Combo BG
Enchantress GBW | Colorless Tron C | Red Deck Wins R | UG Madness UG | Mono-G Tron G | UR Puzzlehorns UR
Rhystic Tron WU| WU Prowess WU | BR Reanimator BR | Mono-R Control R | Stompy G | Temur Tron URG
Mardu Infinite Priest WBR | 85-Card Dredge BRG | Elves GU | Boros Bully RW | Jeskai Familiars RWU
That's also why pack prices are 10$ starting...
MMA was never sold for 6.99. Prices spiked to 15$ in the first month
That's also why M25 is better due to better uncommons/commons.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
So according to MTGGoldfish which has price trends only as far back as to 2015
Around the time of Magic Origins it was selling for 350$ a box on average.
Source: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Sealed Product/Modern Masters Booster Box#paper
24 x 15 as you so claimed, would be 360 a box, ten dollars higher than the earliest listed price on MTGGoldfish, and two years after the print run was over.
So either you're recalling things incorrectly, recalling them at a different time frame, or over-inflating the actual cost of the packs at the time to try and make your point.
In either case, you are summarily wrong.
Also with a bit of research I found that Modern Masters drafts averaged between 25$ and 30$
Source: https://i.imgur.com/M6iEZte.jpg
Source: https://i.imgur.com/BlyjT4z.jpg
Given that the go-to Prize Support is 5$ per person for store credit, packs at the time sold between 7$ to 8.50$
Thanks for playing though.
1) You didn't figure in sales tax.
2) Your secondary link was misleading. It includes only events in the first couple of weeks of set release. Price didn't start going up until after the first month. (People realized not enough printing to meet demand). It was then that 15$ became the norm.
EDIT: I had a typo. Meant the first month. I was being over dramatic to prove a point.
Regardless: The retail was less then 10$ So the sale price was already on a massive upward projectory in the first few weeks and continued to sore until it settled at about the 15$ mark.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Sales tax, at a generous 10% is... 27.50 / 33.00$, still at MSRP (MSRP doesn't include sales tax either but good try!)
Also, cute 'edit' I provide evidence of the first week as you claim to the contrary andddd now it's after the first month? Uh-uh.
You want to make a claim that they were 15$ a pack to draft with between July and October? Bring evidence. Otherwise I've made my point and my case.
The Pack EV on Modern Masters 2013 was higher and had a better return per dollar spent than this set, even with a Dragon in your box.
It wasn't a cute edit. It was clearly a decisive. I even mentioned the edit so you wouldn't feel the need to point it out so we could attempt to avoid any straw-man arguments.
But here we are.
And yes. MMA had insane value. But it doesn't mean sets that came after are worthless or not worth it simply becuase they don't have the same value.
See below for the "value" of sets.
http://mtg.dawnglare.com/?p=sets
M17 and eternal masters were considered, overall, a success. (m17 was arguably better then m15).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
It's not a straw-man argument to point out that you made a statement, and then retracted it to try and prove your point from a revised statement.
I clearly pointed out that MTGGoldfish had boxes listed at 350$ prior to Magic Origins, which was TWO YEARS after the print run of Modern Masters had ended.
Yet you still maintain that they were 15$ a pack? By that logic MTGGoldfish should have the lowest listed price in 2015 at '360$' your argument is bogus based on that simple fact.
Your anecdotal 'evidence' that you bought packs at 15$ a pop from the obviously flawed recollection may only be accounted for an LGS that was not being competitive in the marketplace. So just because some Local Shops MAY have sold the packs for 15$ a pop after release does not mean that the economic trend of Modern Masters at release was dictated by a few Local Shops, especially with the prevalence of the internet.
And while my statement isn't that 'all other sets are worthless', this set, Masters 25, is particularly worthless.
I wasn't trying to prove a point. I realized I had over-stated the fact and retracted.
You're the only one who is still trying to prove a point by pointing out a typo. Which isn't even part of the current arguement and/or debate.
(definition of straw-man arguement).
That's why I clearly... clearly identified that error as soon as I realized I made it.
But sure. Lets look at that link you provided for actual evidence.
Source: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Sealed Product/Modern Masters Booster Box#paper
The price in the very beginning was 350$. That's... 14.58 per pack.
Are you really going to criticize me for rounding up? Really?
Did you even look at your own data point?
Yes there were "periods" where you could get the original modern masters for less than 15$ a back...
but if you average the price increase the product faced in the first month it reached an average of 15$ per pack.
So yes. You are using a straw-man argument because the exact source you posted proves what I was saying ._.
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Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I am a Gambling Nostalgic Kitchen Table Whale who spends multiple hundreds on new sets "just for the fun".
I would never complain about value or junk rares in a standard set, they cant all be good or the creep wouldve ran out along time ago, BUT for Masters sets that are supposed to give me a chance at older more powerful cards and at $10, Yeah I want value....thisis just bad.
And they used very questionable arts and no originals to scratch my nostalgic itch either.
Honestly I am just SAD and was excited to crack alot of "25th Anniversary Set Masters" and now......
The value is also heavily inflated by Imperial Recruiter. He will drop to around 25-30 from his current 145.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Would've loved to see Oracle of Mul Daya, Survival of the Fittest, Sneak Attack, Greater Good, Intuition, Massacre Wurm, and GODDAMN LAND TAX. At this point it seems unlikely I'll get a chance to grab any of these.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
That set was on fire, compared to this. I wont buy a single thing from this, not even to get secondary prints of what I play or anything because there is nearly nothing in this entire set that I even DO play.
Mind boggling.
Bring back Modern Masters Wizards, please.
Spirits
I would've LOVED Bloom Tender, and so would've Ghave.
I think they've chosen to really closely adhere to their theme of 'iconic cards from every single set'. Which has enabled them to set up for feeding us some janky ass bull***** instead of staples. I get that they can't overvalue the set, but it's kind of ridiculous how much dross there is so far. I also get that there is only half a set spoiled so far, I just can't see the rest redeeming the set at this point.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
The point of the discussion was that you claimed that the packs spiked to 15$ in the first week and undermined the EV of the cards in the pack.
Anyways, lets move on.
350$, TWO. YEARS. AFTER. PRINT.
Not a weekend.
Not a month.
Not a Jewish New Year.
Not a Sweeps Week.
Two. Years.
As in. This set went into print, went out of print. And then two years later, you could buy a box at 350$.
Your statement is that one month, after it was still in print, the general economy made it unable to buy these packs under 15$ a pop?
Please re-evaluate everything that lead you to this moment and either gather better evidence or concede this argument, it's shameful.