The top decks of Humans, Burn, Affinity, Tron, and Titanshift could care less about Jace being played against them. GDS may or may not care too much.
It's pretty mediocre against GDS. You have to resolve it through hand disruption and Stubborn Denial, then if you brainstorm they can just bolt it, plus they have a lot of low cost threats where the -1 is only minorly effective.
In fact, none of the four most played archetypes (Humans, Affinity, Burn, and Tron) are likely to adopt either Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Bloodbraid Elf.
Give it time. The pros and community will eventually find a way to make them work and break Modern again.
Modern was broken 1 time, and that was due to Wizards, not anything 'pros' proved.
The pros and community will certainly make a go at trying to make a winning deck with it. I'm with the crowd that thinks JTMS will dominate the tournament scene and cause Wizards to ban it again or unban something to counter it. JTMS is just too good of a card for its mana cost.
Hmmmm...really is an interesting bit of timing isn't it? Jace is announced as basically the poster child for the new Masters set and he just so happens to be unbanned in Modern none too long before its release? Gee, doesn't seem like WotC is trying to push sales on this product hard or anything eh?
I've long since felt JtMS would be fine in Modern, but the obvious cash grab nature of the timing is so transparent and laughable.
This honestly does feel like a low-blow Yugioh move. I left that trash game because of this BS.
I was really counting on Jace being affordable enough for me to get my last copy for Commander. Now as usual, Commander players are screwed out of this iconic card because of Modern, and they think a product at $10 a pack, with a horrible gamble ratio of majority garbage bulk rares is going to offset this insane demand they've created?
It makes me so upset to have my Mind Sculptor stolen from me, only to have WOTC inflate its price before a reprint set they've promised would make it more accessible. Seems every way I turn, this card is going to be a nightmare. And here I thought it would finally be reasonable. But it's a mythic, and I'd have to hemorrhage out cash on bulk rares before I have any hope of seeing it anywhere.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of being burned by card games. Making it a mythic was NEVER going to solve the demand problem when it's tripled in price from one announcement. Good luck to us Commander folks I guess, since we'll never see the light of damn day in this game with anything.
Last copy for commander? LAST COPY???? you DO know Commander is a singleton format right? The price change of it just being printed wasn't going to impact stuff very much since the guy was pretty stable and a format usable in Commander/legacy anyway, at most a 10% drop. I do feel bad for you as getting cards stolen truely does suck however.
This honestly does feel like a low-blow Yugioh move. I left that trash game because of this BS.
I was really counting on Jace being affordable enough for me to get my last copy for Commander. Now as usual, Commander players are screwed out of this iconic card because of Modern, and they think a product at $10 a pack, with a horrible gamble ratio of majority garbage bulk rares is going to offset this insane demand they've created?
It makes me so upset to have my Mind Sculptor stolen from me, only to have WOTC inflate its price before a reprint set they've promised would make it more accessible. Seems every way I turn, this card is going to be a nightmare. And here I thought it would finally be reasonable. But it's a mythic, and I'd have to hemorrhage out cash on bulk rares before I have any hope of seeing it anywhere.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of being burned by card games. Making it a mythic was NEVER going to solve the demand problem when it's tripled in price from one announcement. Good luck to us Commander folks I guess, since we'll never see the light of damn day in this game with anything.
Last copy for commander? LAST COPY???? you DO know Commander is a singleton format right? The price change of it just being printed wasn't going to impact stuff very much since the guy was pretty stable and a format usable in Commander/legacy anyway, at most a 10% drop. I do feel bad for you as getting cards stolen truely does suck however.
It was the last card I needed for my deck. I was waiting to buy it when Masters 25 was released thinking WOTC was going to make it more reasonable to obtain. Literally it's been reprinted so many times and never falls below $45 at its worst. The card is desired, and this is hardly going to help alleviate the disproportionate demand and supply.
This kind of pattern of manipulating the competitive meta makes me think all the more that the Eldrazi Winter was no accident. Wizards knew exactly what it would do to Modern when they pushed the crap out of the Eldrazi in Oath of the Gatewatch, but they also knew that it would drive sales of their newest set. Should they have banned Eye or Temple immediately upon Oath's release? Sure. But would Oath have sold as well. Definitely not.
After what happened with Iconic Masters, Wizards isn't taking any chances, apparently.
I could care less about the price spikes. I have all of the copies of each card that I want. What I care about is Wizards' clear manipulation of the competitive scene just to push product. This happens one more time, I'm done with the competitive play.
I will say this again, and I have had a lot of problems with WOTC over the last year with their "state of standard." (I got burned on Copter and Emrakul). This move seems fair and balanced. The calls for unbannings of BBE and JTMS have been strong for a couple of years now. I also like that they gave him a reprint to help somewhat. As for a "Yugioh" move, if WOTC does no reprint we could be looking at $150 to $200 permanently for a Jace, and people would complain about that. As it stands I think it will be more like Ancestral Visions: A card that has a place in Modern, but by no means an "I win the game on the spot" card.
Now to the real issue: Can't we all just get excited and start talking decklists? I got a family and full-time work and need some of you young geniuses to come up with some awesome brews I can take to FNM. Long live Magic and our awesome community...
I am fairly certain they did not unban him just to sell M25.
JTMS was banned for 6 years, 8 months, during which time he was printed only in Promo and Reprints for formats he was legal in (Eternal Masters). Within about 1 month of being reprinted in a set that is "Format Agnostic", he is unbanned for the most popular format this set could target. That is very unlikely to be a coincidence. There will be higher demand for Masters 25 due to this decision. I'm not saying they made these decisions together, but they most certainly timed the announcement with availability of product to satisfy resulting demand. 4th printing and they couldn't even give him new art to help preserve older value for collectors. For anything but the reserved list and the occasional promo, these moves make collections a liability these days.
And while it is true that "existing JTMS cards went way up too", JTMS was at one time $180 - after being banned. Then they reprinted - and reprinted again - with the same art. Now right when the original art might be able to retain some of it's original value in that range, they again reprint it - with the same art - ensuring Worldwake copies will not go above Masters 25 and give new collectors any reason not to just by a Masters 25 copy for slightly less (just like they did with Eternal Masters). These are very careful moves to make sure we are spending money only on new retail product, and I don't think it's sustainable or responsible in the long term to drive profits this way.
This honestly does feel like a low-blow Yugioh move. I left that trash game because of this BS.
I was really counting on Jace being affordable enough for me to get my last copy for Commander. Now as usual, Commander players are screwed out of this iconic card because of Modern, and they think a product at $10 a pack, with a horrible gamble ratio of majority garbage bulk rares is going to offset this insane demand they've created?
It makes me so upset to have my Mind Sculptor stolen from me, only to have WOTC inflate its price before a reprint set they've promised would make it more accessible. Seems every way I turn, this card is going to be a nightmare. And here I thought it would finally be reasonable. But it's a mythic, and I'd have to hemorrhage out cash on bulk rares before I have any hope of seeing it anywhere.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of being burned by card games. Making it a mythic was NEVER going to solve the demand problem when it's tripled in price from one announcement. Good luck to us Commander folks I guess, since we'll never see the light of damn day in this game with anything.
There's some serious irony in your post man... Edh is the SOLE reason for a ton of cards spiking because edh players must have. Hilarious!
Came for the ridiculous conspiracy theories. Was not disappointed. I don't think this is going to end up as bad as people think.
If you think that Jace's unban being timed with Masters 25 ro build hype for that set is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy theory, you have way more faith in WoTC than I do.
Jace's actual impact on the format is a different issue, and I admit I'm interested to see what that is.
Oh no, they unbanned him to sell masters 25 without any question. After the extreme nightmare release of Iconic Masters with boxes being sold at almost half MSRP on the marketplace along with the reduced sales in general across the last few standard sets they absolutely have every reason to pull whatever rabbit out of the hat they got.
I looked over what the best picks for M25 would be and in order for the set to hold enough value to be worth the price being asked for, the majority of the money cards have to come from pre-RTR era. Anything else is just going to be worth pennies except for a few notable cards right now. This is mostly just talking about post rotation sets as standard still has a pretty big impact on card prices. To date the most desirable card to reprint post RTR as of this moment is Collective Brutality, which I actually bought a playset of back in the day because it's just insanely good. In fact, all the collective effort cards were good, just that the black one beats the rest due to the alternative cost to escalate it. The closest thing to the card released since has been Doomfall, which is a solid piece of removal, but in modern there's just better options.
Most likely Masters 25 is going to have one card that was popular during each period where the block was in standard, because they want cards that have a strong nostalgia factor in the set. That means that even if a card is expensive due to modern, it may not be in the set. We'll have to wait and see. I've also got suspicions we may see actual reprints in Return to Dominaria that normally show up in masters sets. They need the set to sell badly, so if they threw Cryptic Command or did the unthinkable and print Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated that set would probably fly off the shelves. My guess is that they probably will go with something like the former rather than the latter. Core 2019 can fit a high powered walker or two.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hopefully this doesn't get used as precedent for other high money reprints when it turns out Jace is fine.
It's a concept of creeping normality. If WotC can make this move solely in an effort to sell packs and move their product, and if the players of this game fall for it and buy their product, WotC will do it again, and again, and again...
Stepping across the line of unbanning a card in a stable and vibrant format just to push your product sales is going too far for WotC.
Does this essentially price out budget players in modern? Like I don't have the money for Jace and I have no interest in playing unfair decks... Is it even possible to play blue fair decks without Jace now?
Well, no, the budget decks will still exist, but unbanning a card that is likely going to be 100+ dollars if it gets solid tournament results, then never return to it's original low of 50 usd per card even if it doesn't, wont make modern any more accessible.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Does this essentially price out budget players in modern? Like I don't have the money for Jace and I have no interest in playing unfair decks... Is it even possible to play blue fair decks without Jace now?
You can play the exact same budget deck now as you could before. The only difference is that non-budget players will now have more options when playing fair decks.
Considering they had these cards ready to print months ago, that means these unbannings were happening basically no matter what in order to help sell this product.
And even if that's an incorrect take, it feels wrong that it doesn't take much to come to that conclusion.
When Worldwake came out, they didn't ban Jace till the end of rotation because Worldwake was selling too well, so yeah, while balancing allow Jace to return, it probably has more to do with the sells.
Super wrong! Like OMG wrong.
Wizards adressed that topic when they banned Jace and they literally told us they only banned Jace because of the nationals coming up next month and they knew that had to do something. Thus came the Splinter Twin deck to be.
They could have unbannet Jace when they released many of the other sets with him and they didn’t which can only lead to one final and utterly true conclusion: JtMS is not unbanned to sell Master 25.
Why wouldn't Hasbro, a for-profit company, use the unbanning of a high profile card to boost sales of a product? It makes great business sense. If I was Mr. Hasbro, I would be using every vehicle at my disposal to ensure a new product's roll-out was as successful as possible. Jace WILL sell packs. The management team knows this. It's not some kind of happy accident.
Jace is unbanned because he does not break the turn 4 rule. With a multitude of decks being able to win turn 2-4 it makes no sense to ban cards that hit play turn 4 and do not immediately win the game.
Yes, but this has been true for YEARS. It's just way too coincidental that Wizards would choose to unban the card a month before their next Masters set that headlines JtMS as one of the top cards -- ESPECIALLY after Wizards' most recent Masters set has failed so spectacularly.
Man, I feel like the only non-conspiracy theorist here who actually believes that WOTC honestly judged JTMS to a fair card in modern again. I mean, let's say that's the case, they really truly believe that modern is ready for him. Would you then want them to reprint Jace in their next masters set, or not?
I agree it does feel a little greedy, but I don't think that's the only (or even simplest) explanation here.
Considering they had these cards ready to print months ago, that means these unbannings were happening basically no matter what in order to help sell this product.
And even if that's an incorrect take, it feels wrong that it doesn't take much to come to that conclusion.
When Worldwake came out, they didn't ban Jace till the end of rotation because Worldwake was selling too well, so yeah, while balancing allow Jace to return, it probably has more to do with the sells.
Super wrong! Like OMG wrong.
Wizards adressed that topic when they banned Jace and they literally told us they only banned Jace because of the nationals coming up next month and they knew that had to do something. Thus came the Splinter Twin deck to be.
They could have unbannet Jace when they released many of the other sets with him and they didn’t which can only lead to one final and utterly true conclusion: JtMS is not unbanned to sell Master 25.
There's also the fact that Jace's impact on Standard was not as immediate as cyberium_neo's post implies. Sure he saw play in control and some combo decks like Turbo-Land, but he didn't become oppressive in standard until Scars block was released and Alara rotated, because Jund was still the king of the mountain at the time, specifically because of our other unbanned friend, Bloodbraid Elf.
Jace is unbanned because he does not break the turn 4 rule. With a multitude of decks being able to win turn 2-4 it makes no sense to ban cards that hit play turn 4 and do not immediately win the game.
Yes, but this has been true for YEARS. It's just way too coincidental that Wizards would choose to unban the card a month before their next Masters set that headlines JtMS as one of the top cards -- ESPECIALLY after Wizards' most recent Masters set has failed so spectacularly.
Not to say they don't see benefits on sales here, but the timing makes sense when we assume they wanted to unban Jace for a while now, but waited until the supply could come at least a little closer to meet the expected demand.
Also, I don't expect them to re-ban Jace anytime soon - they have to know what backlash that would inevitably create.
Man, I feel like the only non-conspiracy theorist here who actually believes that WOTC honestly judged JTMS to a fair card in modern again. I mean, let's say that's the case, they really truly believe that modern is ready for him. Would you then want them to reprint Jace in their next masters set, or not?
I agree it does feel a little greedy, but I don't think that's the only (or even simplest) explanation here.
Even if Jace won't break modern, the point is that modern was incredibly healthy and balanced. From this point on a Jace unban can only make the format worse. And they still went with it. Because they don't care about the format but about the money. And Wizards being greedy is by far the simplest explanation here, considering everything that has been happening the past few years. Like the worse quality of cards. The prime example of WotCs greed.
Man, I feel like the only non-conspiracy theorist here who actually believes that WOTC honestly judged JTMS to a fair card in modern again. I mean, let's say that's the case, they really truly believe that modern is ready for him. Would you then want them to reprint Jace in their next masters set, or not?
I agree it does feel a little greedy, but I don't think that's the only (or even simplest) explanation here.
Even if Jace won't break modern, the point is that modern was incredibly healthy and balanced. From this point on a Jace unban can only make the format worse. And they still went with it. Because they don't care about the format but about the money. And Wizards being greedy is by far the simplest explanation here, considering everything that has been happening the past few years. Like the worse quality of cards. The prime example of WotCs greed.
That's not entirely true. We can not absolutely say "Jace will make the format worse" simply because the format is currently in a decent spot.
"Incredibly healthy and balanced" is overstatement of the facts. For example, control decks still have a relativly low conversion rate in comparison to the rest of the field.
Also, look at JTMS' price movement for the last few days and tell me that some people don't get inside info.
To be fair though, JTMS and Bloodbraid have been speculation targets for unbanning for a while now. They always see some movement in the days prior to B&R announcements.
People have been talking about that for many months, but the price movement started very suddenly and sharply a few days ago, as if by the flick of a switch. You can see from the price curve exactly when the info was passed on or leaked. Compare it to the SFM speculation movement from some time ago and observe the difference.
It is very obvious indeed. Rudy from Alpha Investments has been also saying this for a while now, and I see no reason not to believe it.
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It's pretty mediocre against GDS. You have to resolve it through hand disruption and Stubborn Denial, then if you brainstorm they can just bolt it, plus they have a lot of low cost threats where the -1 is only minorly effective.
The pros and community will certainly make a go at trying to make a winning deck with it. I'm with the crowd that thinks JTMS will dominate the tournament scene and cause Wizards to ban it again or unban something to counter it. JTMS is just too good of a card for its mana cost.
I've long since felt JtMS would be fine in Modern, but the obvious cash grab nature of the timing is so transparent and laughable.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
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Last copy for commander? LAST COPY???? you DO know Commander is a singleton format right? The price change of it just being printed wasn't going to impact stuff very much since the guy was pretty stable and a format usable in Commander/legacy anyway, at most a 10% drop. I do feel bad for you as getting cards stolen truely does suck however.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Spirits
After what happened with Iconic Masters, Wizards isn't taking any chances, apparently.
I could care less about the price spikes. I have all of the copies of each card that I want. What I care about is Wizards' clear manipulation of the competitive scene just to push product. This happens one more time, I'm done with the competitive play.
Now to the real issue: Can't we all just get excited and start talking decklists? I got a family and full-time work and need some of you young geniuses to come up with some awesome brews I can take to FNM. Long live Magic and our awesome community...
JTMS was banned for 6 years, 8 months, during which time he was printed only in Promo and Reprints for formats he was legal in (Eternal Masters). Within about 1 month of being reprinted in a set that is "Format Agnostic", he is unbanned for the most popular format this set could target. That is very unlikely to be a coincidence. There will be higher demand for Masters 25 due to this decision. I'm not saying they made these decisions together, but they most certainly timed the announcement with availability of product to satisfy resulting demand. 4th printing and they couldn't even give him new art to help preserve older value for collectors. For anything but the reserved list and the occasional promo, these moves make collections a liability these days.
And while it is true that "existing JTMS cards went way up too", JTMS was at one time $180 - after being banned. Then they reprinted - and reprinted again - with the same art. Now right when the original art might be able to retain some of it's original value in that range, they again reprint it - with the same art - ensuring Worldwake copies will not go above Masters 25 and give new collectors any reason not to just by a Masters 25 copy for slightly less (just like they did with Eternal Masters). These are very careful moves to make sure we are spending money only on new retail product, and I don't think it's sustainable or responsible in the long term to drive profits this way.
There's some serious irony in your post man... Edh is the SOLE reason for a ton of cards spiking because edh players must have. Hilarious!
If you think that Jace's unban being timed with Masters 25 ro build hype for that set is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy theory, you have way more faith in WoTC than I do.
Jace's actual impact on the format is a different issue, and I admit I'm interested to see what that is.
I looked over what the best picks for M25 would be and in order for the set to hold enough value to be worth the price being asked for, the majority of the money cards have to come from pre-RTR era. Anything else is just going to be worth pennies except for a few notable cards right now. This is mostly just talking about post rotation sets as standard still has a pretty big impact on card prices. To date the most desirable card to reprint post RTR as of this moment is Collective Brutality, which I actually bought a playset of back in the day because it's just insanely good. In fact, all the collective effort cards were good, just that the black one beats the rest due to the alternative cost to escalate it. The closest thing to the card released since has been Doomfall, which is a solid piece of removal, but in modern there's just better options.
Most likely Masters 25 is going to have one card that was popular during each period where the block was in standard, because they want cards that have a strong nostalgia factor in the set. That means that even if a card is expensive due to modern, it may not be in the set. We'll have to wait and see. I've also got suspicions we may see actual reprints in Return to Dominaria that normally show up in masters sets. They need the set to sell badly, so if they threw Cryptic Command or did the unthinkable and print Liliana of the Veil or Karn Liberated that set would probably fly off the shelves. My guess is that they probably will go with something like the former rather than the latter. Core 2019 can fit a high powered walker or two.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's a concept of creeping normality. If WotC can make this move solely in an effort to sell packs and move their product, and if the players of this game fall for it and buy their product, WotC will do it again, and again, and again...
Stepping across the line of unbanning a card in a stable and vibrant format just to push your product sales is going too far for WotC.
DON'T BUY M25!
Well, no, the budget decks will still exist, but unbanning a card that is likely going to be 100+ dollars if it gets solid tournament results, then never return to it's original low of 50 usd per card even if it doesn't, wont make modern any more accessible.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You can play the exact same budget deck now as you could before. The only difference is that non-budget players will now have more options when playing fair decks.
Yes, but this has been true for YEARS. It's just way too coincidental that Wizards would choose to unban the card a month before their next Masters set that headlines JtMS as one of the top cards -- ESPECIALLY after Wizards' most recent Masters set has failed so spectacularly.
I agree it does feel a little greedy, but I don't think that's the only (or even simplest) explanation here.
There's also the fact that Jace's impact on Standard was not as immediate as cyberium_neo's post implies. Sure he saw play in control and some combo decks like Turbo-Land, but he didn't become oppressive in standard until Scars block was released and Alara rotated, because Jund was still the king of the mountain at the time, specifically because of our other unbanned friend, Bloodbraid Elf.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Not to say they don't see benefits on sales here, but the timing makes sense when we assume they wanted to unban Jace for a while now, but waited until the supply could come at least a little closer to meet the expected demand.
Also, I don't expect them to re-ban Jace anytime soon - they have to know what backlash that would inevitably create.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
Even if Jace won't break modern, the point is that modern was incredibly healthy and balanced. From this point on a Jace unban can only make the format worse. And they still went with it. Because they don't care about the format but about the money. And Wizards being greedy is by far the simplest explanation here, considering everything that has been happening the past few years. Like the worse quality of cards. The prime example of WotCs greed.
That's not entirely true. We can not absolutely say "Jace will make the format worse" simply because the format is currently in a decent spot.
"Incredibly healthy and balanced" is overstatement of the facts. For example, control decks still have a relativly low conversion rate in comparison to the rest of the field.
But it is still relatively healthy and balanced.
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It is very obvious indeed. Rudy from Alpha Investments has been also saying this for a while now, and I see no reason not to believe it.