Well, if you can convince me the minotaurs are Jace level good then maybe we can have a conversation. But instead of paying that hypothetical $500 maybe you just shell out for a box, yeah?
I'm sorry you're okay with Wizards screwing its customers mercilessly. It wouldn't matter if the card was the worst printed in the history of Magic. Only being able to get it through buying a box is cartoonishly stupid.
I have a job, and make more than enough money to support my various hobbies. It’s not that I’m “okay with being screwed,” it’s that I don’t feel overly entitled to any given product. I’m also pretty competent at navigating the secondary market, so spending $90 on a box for that must-have promo isn’t that much of a financial burden when you consider the singles you pull as tradeable assets.
Also: I can DM you links to all of the major sellers on the secondary market. I promise, buying it without the box is 100% possible.
Well, if you can convince me the minotaurs are Jace level good then maybe we can have a conversation. But instead of paying that hypothetical $500 maybe you just shell out for a box, yeah?
I'm sorry you're okay with Wizards screwing its customers mercilessly. It wouldn't matter if the card was the worst printed in the history of Magic. Only being able to get it through buying a box is cartoonishly stupid.
I have a job, and make more than enough money to support my various hobbies. It’s not that I’m “okay with being screwed,” it’s that I don’t feel overly entitled to any given product. I’m also pretty competent at navigating the secondary market, so spending $90 on a box for that must-have promo isn’t that much of a financial burden when you consider the singles you pull as tradeable assets.
So when they release a format defining card as a Buy-a-Box promo (and they will), understand that some spoke out against that, and some rolled over and took it.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I'm sorry you're okay with Wizards screwing its customers mercilessly. It wouldn't matter if the card was the worst printed in the history of Magic. Only being able to get it through buying a box is cartoonishly stupid.
More often than not I’m going to go out on a limb and say most cards created and released this way are going to be cards you ignore for having no use for. This is not something to have a conniption over. Not releasing stuff this way that comes with flavor that otherwise wouldn’t work within the set they come with might actually take away an experience that others would love to have.
BFZ block had more than Expeditions going its way. Let's not forget that full art lands were printed in the set as well. Mark Rosewater also mentions that BFZ block was on a lower level than he would like to see. Links here:
Also, did you see the dimishing returns on Masterpieces, in general? WoTC put the Masterpiece series on hiatus, due to not having enough cards to fill them out.
Well, if you can convince me the minotaurs are Jace level good then maybe we can have a conversation. But instead of paying that hypothetical $500 maybe you just shell out for a box, yeah?
I'm sorry you're okay with Wizards screwing its customers mercilessly. It wouldn't matter if the card was the worst printed in the history of Magic. Only being able to get it through buying a box is cartoonishly stupid.
I have a job, and make more than enough money to support my various hobbies. It’s not that I’m “okay with being screwed,” it’s that I don’t feel overly entitled to any given product. I’m also pretty competent at navigating the secondary market, so spending $90 on a box for that must-have promo isn’t that much of a financial burden when you consider the singles you pull as tradeable assets.
So when they release a format defining card as a Buy-a-Box promo (and they will), understand that some spoke out against that, and some rolled over and took it.
We can have this chat again as soon as that happens, and maybe I’ll even let you tell me “I told you so” without any hard feelings. To be honest, I’m rather doubtful about format defining cards being released as exclusive promos.
BFZ block had more than Expeditions going its way. Let's not forget that full art lands were printed in the set as well. Mark Rosewater also mentions that BFZ block was on a lower level than he would like to see. Links here:
Also, did you see the dimishing returns on Masterpieces, in general? WoTC put the Masterpiece series on hiatus, due to not having enough cards to fill them out.
Thank you for making my point for me. The sky didn’t fall the last time people accused Wizards of a cash grab, and it’s not going to fall this time.
I just packed expedition copies of Fetid Heath and Godless Shrine into my Karlov EDH deck. No regerts.
Last year some stores where testing What looks like Braw. Commander with standard legal card, with min deck of 60 card, and Planeswalkers could be commanders. If it is it then i m ok. Fun format(i played a Nahiri deck with Emrakul in it )
Last year some stores where testing What looks like Braw. Commander with standard legal card, with min deck of 60 card, and Planeswalkers could be commanders. If it is it then i m ok. Fun format(i played a Nahiri deck with Emrakul in it )
I’ve been hoping for PW commanders for a while. Maybe that’s the impetus for the change to the redirection rule. Limiting EDH to standard legal cards mitigates the one major obstacle to PW commanders, otherwise known as Doubling Season.
Look, it's not about how much money you have or anyone has to play hobbies. It's the principal that printing possible format staples as BAB promos that are not printed anywhere else to drive sales up is just plain short-sighted and wrong. Just imagine if they print a BAB-only card that pre-orders for 30-40 bucks because of its play ability in certain formats. I guarantee you that the normal players would not get their hand on it b/c some people would buy multiple boxes and sell off the promo. Even worse, some stores might just take the promos and sell them without using them to sell boxes, citing something like "We ran out" or "Wizards didn't send us any". The set will sell well and WoTC will feel happy about it. The common player who couldn't get that card will be forced to purchase the card for an inflated price on the secondary market and send poor feedback to WoTC about not acquiring the card as intended, thus sending poor feedback to WoTC.
BTW, the FNM promo Fatal Push had an issue with it being sold on eBay for 25-30 bucks a few days before they were available as a promo for the common players. WPN stores are not allowed to do that and that's a card that was in a Standard set. Imagine if the promo version is the only version AND is a format staple?
Granted, I am well aware that these are hypothetical situations, but there's nothing stopping them from doing it, except the customers.
“Hypothetical situations,” aka slippery slopes. Wizards has made a few bad decisions in recent years, granted, but they’ve also done their best to fix them. If faith is really that low then why are we talking at all?
A 60+ card Singleton format using cards that can be bought in print? I might make FNM more if that's the case. Sounds perfect for me.
That’ what i played. And the store owner said it was a format WotC was testing. The sad thing is that there is not much build around/ gimmick card in standard. Playing Nahiri, the harbinguer control was fun and it always ended in eldrazi
they will never put a format defining card as BAB promo. just look at the cards they put in the PW decks, they will go down the same line.
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
“Hypothetical situations,” aka slippery slopes. Wizards has made a few bad decisions in recent years, granted, but they’ve also done their best to fix them. If faith is really that low then why are we talking at all?
We talk about it because this is a hobby that we both enjoy.
I see that Firesong and Sunspeaker is a card that WILL see Commander play for giving Boros something different in their Commander slot. There will be demand for it, and that demand will be much higher since the only way of getting one is through a BAB promo. Now, let's say that someone likes that Commander is 1-2 years from now. Do you think it's fair that they have to pay an inflated price on something that could of been in the main set, but was someone from WoTC's marketing group that thought it would be a great way to snag a few extra bucks on release by making a card that is ONLY available as a promo? I don't and I know that some others don't either. That is called artificial demand. But hey bud, you do you. I'm just raising awareness of a potential pitfall in this grand plan that WoTC has.
Prepare your wallets for some fun in the future if you don't think that this isn't just a quick cash grab.
Brawl is essential what I do with my Commander decks at home. I`m too type A to mix old cards with new so I keep everything within a block which obviously is a big disadvantage. Now the blocks are gone I`m trying to come up with new constraints to build my decks.
they will never put a format defining card as BAB promo. just look at the cards they put in the PW decks, they will go down the same line.
PW decks are a product that are print-to-demand, similar to booster boxes of standard legal sets, thus the cards printed in them will be lower. These BAB-only promos are the only printings of them and are a limited card. Value will be much higher than a PW deck.
“Hypothetical situations,” aka slippery slopes. Wizards has made a few bad decisions in recent years, granted, but they’ve also done their best to fix them. If faith is really that low then why are we talking at all?
We talk about it because this is a hobby that we both enjoy.
I see that Firesong and Sunspeaker is a card that WILL see Commander play for giving Boros something different in their Commander slot. There will be demand for it, and that demand will be much higher since the only way of getting one is through a BAB promo. Now, let's say that someone likes that Commander is 1-2 years from now. Do you think it's fair that they have to pay an inflated price on something that could of been in the main set, but was someone from WoTC's marketing group that thought it would be a great way to snag a few extra bucks on release by making a card that is ONLY available as a promo? I don't and I know that some others don't either. That is called artificial demand. But hey bud, you do you. I'm just raising awareness of a potential pitfall in this grand plan that WoTC has.
Prepare your wallets for some fun in the future if you don't think that this isn't just a quick cash grab.
Do you think it’s fair that I have to pay inflated prices for out of print cards? Being in a set doesn’t make something universally available, otherwise I’d be flush on Gaia’s Cradles and Lilianas of the Veil. But clearly that’s on Wizards, not me for adjusting my values and priorities several years down the road...
I would absolutely take the risk having to shell out big bucks for a playset of a BAB or special event exclusive that warps Standard/Modern/Commander than not giving the opportunity to Wizards to give us tournament legal cards that they otherwise couldn’t print in Standard.
I’m a big Sliver fan, I would LOVE it if something like this can now enable Wizards to give the Future Sight Slivers a proper home now that Wizards has now abandoned lords that grant bonuses to all like minded creatures on the board. Imagine this gives Wizards to posthumously giving us a few brand new Tribal cards. I’d happily risk Wizards goofing up and release an exclusive that impacts Legacy and Vintage.
I would absolutely take the risk having to shell out big bucks for a playset of a BAB or special event exclusive that warps Standard/Modern/Commander than not giving the opportunity to Wizards to give us tournament legal cards that they otherwise couldn’t print in Standard.
If only they made a yearly commander product to do just that, instead of screwing over customers to make money.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
My issue with this, as someone who buys booster boxes of every set, is that I don't always get the BAB promo even when preordering. Probably because I preorder online.
Unless WotC is willing to go to the mat to ensure that players get the BAB promo as they should, I am not in favor of this approach.
I would absolutely take the risk having to shell out big bucks for a playset of a BAB or special event exclusive that warps Standard/Modern/Commander than not giving the opportunity to Wizards to give us tournament legal cards that they otherwise couldn’t print in Standard.
If only they made a yearly commander product to do just that, instead of screwing over customers to make money.
I don’t see how any of this screws over anyone. The card isn’t for you but someone else has applications for it, that’s fair, then don’t just buy the box.
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I have a job, and make more than enough money to support my various hobbies. It’s not that I’m “okay with being screwed,” it’s that I don’t feel overly entitled to any given product. I’m also pretty competent at navigating the secondary market, so spending $90 on a box for that must-have promo isn’t that much of a financial burden when you consider the singles you pull as tradeable assets.
Also: I can DM you links to all of the major sellers on the secondary market. I promise, buying it without the box is 100% possible.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
So when they release a format defining card as a Buy-a-Box promo (and they will), understand that some spoke out against that, and some rolled over and took it.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
More often than not I’m going to go out on a limb and say most cards created and released this way are going to be cards you ignore for having no use for. This is not something to have a conniption over. Not releasing stuff this way that comes with flavor that otherwise wouldn’t work within the set they come with might actually take away an experience that others would love to have.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/because-salt-makes-mistakes-taste-great-2016-05-09
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/state-design-2016-2016-08-29
Also, did you see the dimishing returns on Masterpieces, in general? WoTC put the Masterpiece series on hiatus, due to not having enough cards to fill them out.
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
We can have this chat again as soon as that happens, and maybe I’ll even let you tell me “I told you so” without any hard feelings. To be honest, I’m rather doubtful about format defining cards being released as exclusive promos.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Thank you for making my point for me. The sky didn’t fall the last time people accused Wizards of a cash grab, and it’s not going to fall this time.
I just packed expedition copies of Fetid Heath and Godless Shrine into my Karlov EDH deck. No regerts.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I’ve been hoping for PW commanders for a while. Maybe that’s the impetus for the change to the redirection rule. Limiting EDH to standard legal cards mitigates the one major obstacle to PW commanders, otherwise known as Doubling Season.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
BTW, the FNM promo Fatal Push had an issue with it being sold on eBay for 25-30 bucks a few days before they were available as a promo for the common players. WPN stores are not allowed to do that and that's a card that was in a Standard set. Imagine if the promo version is the only version AND is a format staple?
Granted, I am well aware that these are hypothetical situations, but there's nothing stopping them from doing it, except the customers.
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I garateed you this will be found on tcgplayer
(Opinion but hope I'm not wrong)
Don’t see it playing that Much in 1 year, but there is aways challeger decks
That’ what i played. And the store owner said it was a format WotC was testing. The sad thing is that there is not much build around/ gimmick card in standard. Playing Nahiri, the harbinguer control was fun and it always ended in eldrazi
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
They won't do it intentionally, but it's not like they don't make miscalls on what ends up seeing play at times.
We talk about it because this is a hobby that we both enjoy.
I see that Firesong and Sunspeaker is a card that WILL see Commander play for giving Boros something different in their Commander slot. There will be demand for it, and that demand will be much higher since the only way of getting one is through a BAB promo. Now, let's say that someone likes that Commander is 1-2 years from now. Do you think it's fair that they have to pay an inflated price on something that could of been in the main set, but was someone from WoTC's marketing group that thought it would be a great way to snag a few extra bucks on release by making a card that is ONLY available as a promo? I don't and I know that some others don't either. That is called artificial demand. But hey bud, you do you. I'm just raising awareness of a potential pitfall in this grand plan that WoTC has.
Prepare your wallets for some fun in the future if you don't think that this isn't just a quick cash grab.
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
PW decks are a product that are print-to-demand, similar to booster boxes of standard legal sets, thus the cards printed in them will be lower. These BAB-only promos are the only printings of them and are a limited card. Value will be much higher than a PW deck.
Standard: Risky Burn, Aggro/Burn, Tempo
Modern: Goblins, Budget 8 Rack, Soul Sisters, 42 Land Swan Hunt, Stompy, Burn
Pauper: Miracles, Madness
Do you think it’s fair that I have to pay inflated prices for out of print cards? Being in a set doesn’t make something universally available, otherwise I’d be flush on Gaia’s Cradles and Lilianas of the Veil. But clearly that’s on Wizards, not me for adjusting my values and priorities several years down the road...
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I’m a big Sliver fan, I would LOVE it if something like this can now enable Wizards to give the Future Sight Slivers a proper home now that Wizards has now abandoned lords that grant bonuses to all like minded creatures on the board. Imagine this gives Wizards to posthumously giving us a few brand new Tribal cards. I’d happily risk Wizards goofing up and release an exclusive that impacts Legacy and Vintage.
If only they made a yearly commander product to do just that, instead of screwing over customers to make money.
Unless WotC is willing to go to the mat to ensure that players get the BAB promo as they should, I am not in favor of this approach.
I don’t see how any of this screws over anyone. The card isn’t for you but someone else has applications for it, that’s fair, then don’t just buy the box.