Overjoyed to see DRS banned in Legacy. Just did too much for very little cost, and fetchlands allied with perfect mana turned it into an uninteractive kill condition. Oh, how I miss the Deathrite Shaman v. Deathrite Shaman wars, each player majestically tapping to remove a fetch or Wasteland in response to the other's activation. Or just exiling Brainstorms and Forces of Will to slowly kill people.
Probe was broken and just gave Storm an easy perfect info, draw and storm count enabler. Silly card and mechanic, good riddance.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I'm actually kind of glad SFM didn't come off just yet. I want a couple more playsets, and even though it's plenty fair of a card to be freed, they JUST gave us Jace, it's probably too soon. Move too fast and they start looking at more dangerous cards just to have something to announce.
Fun question: At what price did you buy your SFM’s? And how many do you have now?
I've been a buyer in the 12-15 USD range, just adding one or two to my cart with every TCG purchase. I have 3 playsets. I know I could get out right now and make a profit, but I have no reason not to get 2-3 more sets and sit on them. I don't need the 100 bucks urgently.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
The execution of Phyrexian Mana was 100% a mistake. Sure, there are bad cards that just happen to have Phyrexian Mana in their Mana costs, but as a mechanic Phyrexian Mana was a mistake.
And what criteria are you using to determine that?
Probably Randy Buehler who's said as much time and again both when he ran R&D and now.
Phyrexian mana breaks the color pie and allows you free acceleration at the cost of life. Should never come back.
This. Colored Phyrexian Mana was a mistake.
Colorless Phyrexian, imo, can still be an interesting design tool.
Colored Phyrexian mana isn't a problem on cards that would otherwise be colorless anyway, like artifacts. I mean, is Spined Thopter really breaking the color pie?
And colorless/generic Phyexian mana symbols are harder to define now that colorless mana and generic mana costs are more distinct. Does a grey circle with the symbol on it stand for 2 life or C, 2 life or 1, or something else?
I'm sorry when I said colorless I did actually mean generic.
I feel that it would be pretty easy to just say that generic phyrexian mana is either 2 life or 1 and clarify that C is the only symbol that requires colorless mana. I feel that, in a generic mana form, phyrexian mana is more easily balanced and, importantly, doesn't break the color pie. Both of which (imo) make it a better tool in a designer's utility belt than the colored phyrexian mana we have now.
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
What they said with this update is "Don't play Legacy if you don't already have RL cards".
Pretty much every budget deck depended on Gitaxian Probe. Now it's Burn or don't play because you're a peasant and dind't invest in Magic 20 years ago when you may not have even been born.
They better reprint Wasteland, Karakas, Cavern of Souls and Rishadan Port at least once more next year to make up for killing pretty much every sub-$1K deck to mildly inconvenience Tendrills.
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
Phyrexian mana isn't the problem there, the 2 or 3 missing from those mana costs is the problem. Those cards would be problematic even if they didn't have phyrexian mana. That said, yes, a spell like Misstep had no business being phyrexian mana, because countering spells is one of the few effects design really doesn't want in colorless, along with cheap enchantment removal. But again, the problem isn't with the mechanic, it's the effect and the cost that are the real issues there.
Look at affinity for artifacts, said to be one of the most broken mechanics in the history of the game. It produced some of the most broken cards, but was Razor Golem broken? Was Qumulox broken? The problem wasn't that affinity existed, the problem was the way they used it on certan cards.
And how about Mutagenic Growth? You exchange 2 life for a one-turn +2/+2 boost; not terribly egregious on its own. Add in a 1-drop creature with infect and then it becomes a problem. The environment in which a card or mechanic exists is integral to determining that card or mechanic's balance. Would Aetherworks Marvel be nearly as broken if it was the only energy card in Standard? Would Heart of Kiran have been so good if not for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? How about those Swords with Stoneforge Mystic, and vice versa?
All this said, I understand Gitaxian Probe's banning because it really was just that good, not only for Storm but also Delve (handy fuel for Become Immense and Treasure Cruise). That should have been a 1(U/P) at least, and honestly I think 2(U/P) would be safer since we're talking about basically cycling with upside.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
Phyrexian mana isn't the problem there, the 2 or 3 missing from those mana costs is the problem. Those cards would be problematic even if they didn't have phyrexian mana. That said, yes, a spell like Misstep had no business being phyrexian mana, because countering spells is one of the few effects design really doesn't want in colorless, along with cheap enchantment removal. But again, the problem isn't with the mechanic, it's the effect and the cost that are the real issues there.
Look at affinity for artifacts, said to be one of the most broken mechanics in the history of the game. It produced some of the most broken cards, but was Razor Golem broken? Was Qumulox broken? The problem wasn't that affinity existed, the problem was the way they used it on certan cards.
And how about Mutagenic Growth? You exchange 2 life for a one-turn +2/+2 boost; not terribly egregious on its own. Add in a 1-drop creature with infect and then it becomes a problem. The environment in which a card or mechanic exists is integral to determining that card or mechanic's balance. Would Aetherworks Marvel be nearly as broken if it was the only energy card in Standard? Would Heart of Kiran have been so good if not for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? How about those Swords with Stoneforge Mystic, and vice versa?
All this said, I understand Gitaxian Probe's banning because it really was just that good, not only for Storm but also Delve (handy fuel for Become Immense and Treasure Cruise). That should have been a 1(U/P) at least, and honestly I think 2(U/P) would be safer since we're talking about basically cycling with upside.
Thing is, any mechanic (except maybe dredge and free) can have fair cards. A mechanic is broken when you can't make exciting cards that aren't broken. You see, if storm came back to standard and all we got were Wing Shards-type cards, people would be disappointed.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Welp, I'll just keep playing my Gitaxian Probe in Pauper, in the same deck (Izzet Eye Candy) that pretty much depends on another Phyrexian mana card: Apostle's Blessing. That card demonstrates pretty much perfectly how busted the mechanic can be. I'm playing a card without any investment in my manabase that completely blanks targeted removal and makes my creatures unblockable, all for 1 and two life. Even just leaving a single Mountain open while passing the turn can make an opponent very nervous.
Thing is, any mechanic (except maybe dredge and free) can have fair cards. A mechanic is broken when you can't make exciting cards that aren't broken. You see, if storm came back to standard and all we got were Wing Shards-type cards, people would be disappointed.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The problem here is the problem with Phyrexian Mana in general. The kind of player that wants to play Phyrexian Mana is not the kind of player that wants to play big, dumb dragons.
The casuals take one look at Moltenseel Dragon and think, "Ugh, *I* lose life? WHAT CRAP." Then they slot in another Bogardan Hellkite.
So, yeah, they could bring Phyrexian Mana back and just stick it on non-competitive cards, but who is it for, then? The people clamoring for more Phyrexian Mana are not going to be satisfied with that. They want Probes 5-8. That is just going to be a race to the bottom.
I expected a Chainwhirler ban. As someone hho was considered getting a cheap´n´fun Standard deck for quite a while now, I´ve lost count of how many times I´ve started brewing and then scrapped the whole idea because Chainwhirler hoses it. GW tokens? Nope. Merfolk? Can´t do it. Vampires? Hell no. White Weenies? Not without those 2/1s. Rat Colony? It probably would have been terrible anyway, but it´s undoable. It´s a real tough hoop to jump through.
They have banned so many cards lately, but few of them have had a similar stranglehold on the format. I think that even if it might see less play after rotation, banning it to open up the format for these last three months would have been a legit move. It´s not as if it´ll kill the red decks either, they were already T1 before they had the whirler.
I can only speak for myself, but I am one player who isn´t playing Standard right now because Chainwhirler. I´m probably not the only one.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
Phyrexian mana isn't the problem there, the 2 or 3 missing from those mana costs is the problem. Those cards would be problematic even if they didn't have phyrexian mana. That said, yes, a spell like Misstep had no business being phyrexian mana, because countering spells is one of the few effects design really doesn't want in colorless, along with cheap enchantment removal. But again, the problem isn't with the mechanic, it's the effect and the cost that are the real issues there.
Look at affinity for artifacts, said to be one of the most broken mechanics in the history of the game. It produced some of the most broken cards, but was Razor Golem broken? Was Qumulox broken? The problem wasn't that affinity existed, the problem was the way they used it on certan cards.
And how about Mutagenic Growth? You exchange 2 life for a one-turn +2/+2 boost; not terribly egregious on its own. Add in a 1-drop creature with infect and then it becomes a problem. The environment in which a card or mechanic exists is integral to determining that card or mechanic's balance. Would Aetherworks Marvel be nearly as broken if it was the only energy card in Standard? Would Heart of Kiran have been so good if not for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? How about those Swords with Stoneforge Mystic, and vice versa?
All this said, I understand Gitaxian Probe's banning because it really was just that good, not only for Storm but also Delve (handy fuel for Become Immense and Treasure Cruise). That should have been a 1(U/P) at least, and honestly I think 2(U/P) would be safer since we're talking about basically cycling with upside.
The point that I was making was that not only are those cards problematic due to powerlevel, but they are also problematic because they inherently break the colorpie by giving every color in the game easy access to effects they shouldn't have. Not only is phyrexian mana a cost reduction mechanic, it's cost reduction and the ability to slot in any deck without the need to rebalance the mana base to allow for another color, which is an important balancing mechanic that is inherent to the game.
Even outside of game balance, the color pie is one of magic's core defining aspects and should have it's integrity kept in whatever form it currently takes. Colored phyrexian mana inherently breaks the color pie which is why it is a problem from a design standpoint based on what Magic is as a game.
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
The problem here is the problem with Phyrexian Mana in general. The kind of player that wants to play Phyrexian Mana is not the kind of player that wants to play big, dumb dragons.
The casuals take one look at Moltenseel Dragon and think, "Ugh, *I* lose life? WHAT CRAP." Then they slot in another Bogardan Hellkite.
So, yeah, they could bring Phyrexian Mana back and just stick it on non-competitive cards, but who is it for, then? The people clamoring for more Phyrexian Mana are not going to be satisfied with that. They want Probes 5-8. That is just going to be a race to the bottom.
I don't know. Snow mana was never put into a mana cost, but only activation costs and that way avoided breaking things the same way. Spellskite-ish.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
Phyrexian mana isn't the problem there, the 2 or 3 missing from those mana costs is the problem. Those cards would be problematic even if they didn't have phyrexian mana. That said, yes, a spell like Misstep had no business being phyrexian mana, because countering spells is one of the few effects design really doesn't want in colorless, along with cheap enchantment removal. But again, the problem isn't with the mechanic, it's the effect and the cost that are the real issues there.
Look at affinity for artifacts, said to be one of the most broken mechanics in the history of the game. It produced some of the most broken cards, but was Razor Golem broken? Was Qumulox broken? The problem wasn't that affinity existed, the problem was the way they used it on certan cards.
And how about Mutagenic Growth? You exchange 2 life for a one-turn +2/+2 boost; not terribly egregious on its own. Add in a 1-drop creature with infect and then it becomes a problem. The environment in which a card or mechanic exists is integral to determining that card or mechanic's balance. Would Aetherworks Marvel be nearly as broken if it was the only energy card in Standard? Would Heart of Kiran have been so good if not for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? How about those Swords with Stoneforge Mystic, and vice versa?
All this said, I understand Gitaxian Probe's banning because it really was just that good, not only for Storm but also Delve (handy fuel for Become Immense and Treasure Cruise). That should have been a 1(U/P) at least, and honestly I think 2(U/P) would be safer since we're talking about basically cycling with upside.
I feel that might have been overkill, PEEK was not wrecking up the meta at any level. at 2 mana its bearly draft playable at 3 its not even draft playable.
I feel that might have been overkill, PEEK was not wrecking up the meta at any level. at 2 mana its bearly draft playable at 3 its not even draft playable.
Heck, all those cheap Phyrexian Mana spells are basically superfuel for a Delve deck, hence why I feel most of them should have had 1 or 2 added to the cost.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I feel that might have been overkill, PEEK was not wrecking up the meta at any level. at 2 mana its bearly draft playable at 3 its not even draft playable.
Heck, all those cheap Phyrexian Mana spells are basically superfuel for a Delve deck, hence why I feel most of them should have had 1 or 2 added to the cost.
What you are describing is "god hand" though, 3 or 4 of the same card... Legacy "god hands" can turn 1 win the game. Personaly I think the format can (and did) handle it fine without too much problems.
Stop with speculation already. SFM being unbanned for modern doesn't make sense. If you're looking for deck diversity, you can't have SFM in Modern. It'll be the best two drop creature by far.
Two mana tutor is just stupid. Cheap tutors always break the game.
That said, these two cards are good bans. Next time they might look at Brainstorm haha...
Cheap tutor that also lets you put the target on the battlefield for two mana next turn. (Granted, there's still the equip cost...)
I'm not surprised by Gitaxian Probe's b& in Legacy either. Paying 2 life and no other costs for a cantrip? If lifegain is worthless on its own, it stands to reason life loss doesn't really balance a free cantrip.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Phyrexian mana is inherently broken. There. It's fact. Argue it all you want - it is. I love broken things, and Phyrexian mana being the cost of Gitaxian Probe is one of countless reasons as to why it is my favorite blue card. They banned it and that feels bad for me, but oh well; sh** happens.
I am sad to see probe go but the card was busted upon release. DRS ban, meh. It was arguably the best creature in Legacy so I get it. I was HOPING to have another deck playable alongside my Storm deck to lend out (Sultai death's shadow) but both of these bans make that very unrealistic. REEEEEEEEEE!
Storm will live on. That's good news for everyone who doesn't despise it.
Does this mean DRS is going to go down in price? What is it legal in now?
Just casual play at this point. They weren't super expensive to start with, you should be able to get them at $5 or under soon enough. Foil ones will be more expensive as always, but those should drop as well. Think you can just play them in Vintage right now, not sure how much play they see there though.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
What they said with this update is "Don't play Legacy if you don't already have RL cards".
Pretty much every budget deck depended on Gitaxian Probe. Now it's Burn or don't play because you're a peasant and dind't invest in Magic 20 years ago when you may not have even been born.
They better reprint Wasteland, Karakas, Cavern of Souls and Rishadan Port at least once more next year to make up for killing pretty much every sub-$1K deck to mildly inconvenience Tendrills.
Quite honestly, yes. Legacy is for people who either have lots of money or have been playing the game for 25 years. Legacy is just too expensive because demand is high and supply is low. Just play Modern, Commander or Canadian Highlander like the rest of us.
What they said with this update is "Don't play Legacy if you don't already have RL cards".
Pretty much every budget deck depended on Gitaxian Probe. Now it's Burn or don't play because you're a peasant and dind't invest in Magic 20 years ago when you may not have even been born.
They better reprint Wasteland, Karakas, Cavern of Souls and Rishadan Port at least once more next year to make up for killing pretty much every sub-$1K deck to mildly inconvenience Tendrills.
Quite honestly, yes. Legacy is for people who either have lots of money or have been playing the game for 25 years. Legacy is just too expensive because demand is high and supply is low. Just play Modern, Commander or Canadian Highlander like the rest of us.
I am neither and just got into Legacy. Takes some time and investment, but not all decks are insane. D&T is a solid deck with lots of favorable matchups and isn't nuts. Burn is even less.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I think that DRS almost needed to go. Prove banning is just ban mania
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I am neither and just got into Legacy. Takes some time and investment, but not all decks are insane.
This, honestly. I cannot stress enough how MUCH that time and investment ARE (as I constructed my storm deck's primary components over half a decade ago), but even that was as a college student just trying to make intelligent application of given resources, via trading up economically for the format in question.
It takes a lot of time and a LOT of patience and diligence to invest in for sure, which is frustrating and for most people, very sadly difficult to reach. I personally dislike the inaccessibility of Legacy as a format, which is the largest cause for my dislike of the reserve list. However, THAT matter is not a discussion for here, nor apparently ANYWHERE based on various quotes from MaRo.
I am neither and just got into Legacy. Takes some time and investment, but not all decks are insane.
This, honestly. I cannot stress enough how MUCH that time and investment ARE (as I constructed my storm deck's primary components over half a decade ago), but even that was as a college student just trying to make intelligent application of given resources, via trading up economically for the format in question.
It takes a lot of time and a LOT of patience and diligence to invest in for sure, which is frustrating and for most people, very sadly difficult to reach. I personally dislike the inaccessibility of Legacy as a format, which is the largest cause for my dislike of the reserve list. However, THAT matter is not a discussion for here, nor apparently ANYWHERE based on various quotes from MaRo.
I agree it's not the most fun, but it does pose a challenge. We are trying unsanctioned 10 proxy Legacy to help people and lure some folks in. Some decks 10 cards just isn't enough. I'm trying to build one now that has 12 cards from $100-300 each. It's daunting, but I'm trying.
Luckily Burn and Mono Black Reanimator can be made on the cheap. Death and Taxes isn't too awful.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Many others...
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Probe was broken and just gave Storm an easy perfect info, draw and storm count enabler. Silly card and mechanic, good riddance.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I've been a buyer in the 12-15 USD range, just adding one or two to my cart with every TCG purchase. I have 3 playsets. I know I could get out right now and make a profit, but I have no reason not to get 2-3 more sets and sit on them. I don't need the 100 bucks urgently.
Probably Randy Buehler who's said as much time and again both when he ran R&D and now.
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
I feel that it would be pretty easy to just say that generic phyrexian mana is either 2 life or 1 and clarify that C is the only symbol that requires colorless mana. I feel that, in a generic mana form, phyrexian mana is more easily balanced and, importantly, doesn't break the color pie. Both of which (imo) make it a better tool in a designer's utility belt than the colored phyrexian mana we have now.
Also no, it isn't really a problem on cards like Spined Thopter but that kind of illustrates the point people are making. Sure it's fine on thopter, but it isn't on Surgical Extraction, Birthing Pod, Mental Misstep, and certainly not Dismember. If your mechanic only seems okay on cards that could easily be artifacts or low power/French vanilla cards, that might be a red flag.
-Chandra Nalaar
Pretty much every budget deck depended on Gitaxian Probe. Now it's Burn or don't play because you're a peasant and dind't invest in Magic 20 years ago when you may not have even been born.
They better reprint Wasteland, Karakas, Cavern of Souls and Rishadan Port at least once more next year to make up for killing pretty much every sub-$1K deck to mildly inconvenience Tendrills.
Phyrexian mana isn't the problem there, the 2 or 3 missing from those mana costs is the problem. Those cards would be problematic even if they didn't have phyrexian mana. That said, yes, a spell like Misstep had no business being phyrexian mana, because countering spells is one of the few effects design really doesn't want in colorless, along with cheap enchantment removal. But again, the problem isn't with the mechanic, it's the effect and the cost that are the real issues there.
Look at affinity for artifacts, said to be one of the most broken mechanics in the history of the game. It produced some of the most broken cards, but was Razor Golem broken? Was Qumulox broken? The problem wasn't that affinity existed, the problem was the way they used it on certan cards.
And how about Mutagenic Growth? You exchange 2 life for a one-turn +2/+2 boost; not terribly egregious on its own. Add in a 1-drop creature with infect and then it becomes a problem. The environment in which a card or mechanic exists is integral to determining that card or mechanic's balance. Would Aetherworks Marvel be nearly as broken if it was the only energy card in Standard? Would Heart of Kiran have been so good if not for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? How about those Swords with Stoneforge Mystic, and vice versa?
All this said, I understand Gitaxian Probe's banning because it really was just that good, not only for Storm but also Delve (handy fuel for Become Immense and Treasure Cruise). That should have been a 1(U/P) at least, and honestly I think 2(U/P) would be safer since we're talking about basically cycling with upside.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Thing is, any mechanic (except maybe dredge and free) can have fair cards. A mechanic is broken when you can't make exciting cards that aren't broken. You see, if storm came back to standard and all we got were Wing Shards-type cards, people would be disappointed.
I'd say Rage Extractor and Moltensteel Dragon were exciting enough. Maybe not high-tier, but they could be exciting for the players who want them. Norn's Annex, Tezzeret's Gambit, and Hex Parasite all also seemed to be fair enough. Slash Panther seems unremarkable, but funnily enough turned out to have actual value in Legacy against Jace, the Mind Sculptor of all things (also, it sounds like a Mega Man X Maverick). Immolating Souleater, now that one skirted the line. It made for a pretty ridiculous aggro/burn deck with Kiln Fiend, Lightning Bolt, and if you ran enough artifacts, Galvanic Blast.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
The problem here is the problem with Phyrexian Mana in general. The kind of player that wants to play Phyrexian Mana is not the kind of player that wants to play big, dumb dragons.
The casuals take one look at Moltenseel Dragon and think, "Ugh, *I* lose life? WHAT CRAP." Then they slot in another Bogardan Hellkite.
So, yeah, they could bring Phyrexian Mana back and just stick it on non-competitive cards, but who is it for, then? The people clamoring for more Phyrexian Mana are not going to be satisfied with that. They want Probes 5-8. That is just going to be a race to the bottom.
They have banned so many cards lately, but few of them have had a similar stranglehold on the format. I think that even if it might see less play after rotation, banning it to open up the format for these last three months would have been a legit move. It´s not as if it´ll kill the red decks either, they were already T1 before they had the whirler.
I can only speak for myself, but I am one player who isn´t playing Standard right now because Chainwhirler. I´m probably not the only one.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Even outside of game balance, the color pie is one of magic's core defining aspects and should have it's integrity kept in whatever form it currently takes. Colored phyrexian mana inherently breaks the color pie which is why it is a problem from a design standpoint based on what Magic is as a game.
-Chandra Nalaar
I don't know. Snow mana was never put into a mana cost, but only activation costs and that way avoided breaking things the same way. Spellskite-ish.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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I feel that might have been overkill, PEEK was not wrecking up the meta at any level. at 2 mana its bearly draft playable at 3 its not even draft playable.
It's not just a matter of what Gitaxian Probe itself did; peeking and drawing a card by itself is fairly innocuous. As I pointed out in my previous post, it's that Probe not only provides mana-free card draw (which is a significant advantage over Peek) but also provides easy Storm count (Ornithopter, Memnite, Gitaxian Probe, Gut Shot, Mutagenic Growth, Desperate Ritual, Infernal Plunge, Seething Song, Grapeshot, there you go) and fuel for Delve spells like Treasure Cruise and Become Immense. Imagine hitting four Probes turn 1, then being able to Murderous Cut any creature for B, or using three Probes and two Mutagenic Growths to fuel Become Immense for a T2 swing with Glistener Elf while also keeping mana open for an Apostle's Blessing in case the opponent gets cute with removal.
Heck, all those cheap Phyrexian Mana spells are basically superfuel for a Delve deck, hence why I feel most of them should have had 1 or 2 added to the cost.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
What you are describing is "god hand" though, 3 or 4 of the same card... Legacy "god hands" can turn 1 win the game. Personaly I think the format can (and did) handle it fine without too much problems.
Cheap tutor that also lets you put the target on the battlefield for two mana next turn. (Granted, there's still the equip cost...)
I'm not surprised by Gitaxian Probe's b& in Legacy either. Paying 2 life and no other costs for a cantrip? If lifegain is worthless on its own, it stands to reason life loss doesn't really balance a free cantrip.
On phasing:
I am sad to see probe go but the card was busted upon release. DRS ban, meh. It was arguably the best creature in Legacy so I get it. I was HOPING to have another deck playable alongside my Storm deck to lend out (Sultai death's shadow) but both of these bans make that very unrealistic. REEEEEEEEEE!
Storm will live on. That's good news for everyone who doesn't despise it.
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Just casual play at this point. They weren't super expensive to start with, you should be able to get them at $5 or under soon enough. Foil ones will be more expensive as always, but those should drop as well. Think you can just play them in Vintage right now, not sure how much play they see there though.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Quite honestly, yes. Legacy is for people who either have lots of money or have been playing the game for 25 years. Legacy is just too expensive because demand is high and supply is low. Just play Modern, Commander or Canadian Highlander like the rest of us.
I am neither and just got into Legacy. Takes some time and investment, but not all decks are insane. D&T is a solid deck with lots of favorable matchups and isn't nuts. Burn is even less.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This, honestly. I cannot stress enough how MUCH that time and investment ARE (as I constructed my storm deck's primary components over half a decade ago), but even that was as a college student just trying to make intelligent application of given resources, via trading up economically for the format in question.
It takes a lot of time and a LOT of patience and diligence to invest in for sure, which is frustrating and for most people, very sadly difficult to reach. I personally dislike the inaccessibility of Legacy as a format, which is the largest cause for my dislike of the reserve list. However, THAT matter is not a discussion for here, nor apparently ANYWHERE based on various quotes from MaRo.
I agree it's not the most fun, but it does pose a challenge. We are trying unsanctioned 10 proxy Legacy to help people and lure some folks in. Some decks 10 cards just isn't enough. I'm trying to build one now that has 12 cards from $100-300 each. It's daunting, but I'm trying.
Luckily Burn and Mono Black Reanimator can be made on the cheap. Death and Taxes isn't too awful.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB