that card is WILD! unless I am missing something, it is miles better than Nightveil or Gonti. I feel like I need to put my Modern UB tempo deck back together. every turn, flying, best of 3 cards, and mana of any color (when i see those words below a 5 drop, I take the card very seriously. it just seems SO good, am I missing something> i don't care about lands, I'm not trying to make a prison deck, I want to hit the other guy with his own Tarmogoyf!
My thoughts exactly, this is better than either of them, Gonti only triggers once. This can trigger turn after turn. Also the fact that you can cast anything regardless of if you have the colored mana or not makes it much better than the previous specter.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
Face-down exile is kind of confusing to reintroduce with all these Izzet cards referencing the type lines of exiled cards.
you seriously don't think that this is orders of magnitude better than those? I'm not saying it WILL be a powerhouse, but in a color pair that is already able to keep the board clean, it's nice to be able to take the best of the top 3 cards and have even an off chance of playing it yourself, or even just try to mill meaningful threats. I definitely think the power is there
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Where did we get this card name? "Sanity Thief" or something like that is much closer to the translation.
Similarity to Nightveil Specter, minus the devotion benefit which was the whole reason anyone played Nightveil in the first place.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Drawing from your own deck is a lot better than somebody else's. Grixis Control isn't going to get as much pulling an Arcbound Ravager, Ancient Stirrings, Hollow One, Street Wraith, etc. from someone else's deck as it would digging toward another K. Command in its own.
And Modern isn't exactly a friendly environment to random 2-toughness creatures without a good ETB or hexproof, especially over 2 mana.
YMMV, and go ahead and absolutely give it a shot, but I think RTR-THS's Devotion-heavy meta is making people think this dude has a better pedigree than history shows.
Drawing from your own deck is a lot better than somebody else's. Grixis Control isn't going to get as much pulling an Arcbound Ravager, Ancient Stirrings, Hollow One, Street Wraith, etc. from someone else's deck as it would digging toward another K. Command in its own.
And Modern isn't exactly a friendly environment to random 2-toughness creatures without a good ETB or hexproof, especially over 2 mana.
YMMV, and go ahead and absolutely give it a shot, but I think RTR-THS's Devotion-heavy meta is making people think this dude has a better pedigree than history shows.
But you are also exiling those cards and the only one who can cast them, if they want to, is this specter's controller. Being able to exile threats like an Arcbound Ravager should be noteworthy as you are crippling their strategy everytime you hit those pieces.
Dimir is delivering! I am liking this guild more and more. I love the Film Noir aspect this time around. Didn't expect to like a few cards in Ravnica, but I kinda feel it
Since everything else goes to the graveyard, you don't get to leave the bad cards on top, so that doesn't actually affect the expected quality of their draws.
Playing against Golgari/Izzet player may be awkward.
Why? I'm pretty sure I'd be running Sentinel Totem in the deck given all the graveyard stuff floating about so it shouldn't be a problem. Even if the only thing they did was Assassin's Trophy it I'm now up a land in a control shell against a mid-range deck. That sounds just lovely for them. That and you don't really need a graveyard with dimir, which is something that Golgari definitely can't live without. That's why I'm more of a pro surveil person than a pro undergrowth person. That and if someone is running surveil they probably will have at least two Enhanced Surveillance in the sideboard or main.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Face-down exile is kind of confusing to reintroduce with all these Izzet cards referencing the type lines of exiled cards.
you seriously don't think that this is orders of magnitude better than those? I'm not saying it WILL be a powerhouse, but in a color pair that is already able to keep the board clean, it's nice to be able to take the best of the top 3 cards and have even an off chance of playing it yourself, or even just try to mill meaningful threats. I definitely think the power is there
...in Modern? The format with Snapcaster + Bolt, T3 Karns and Human beatdowns? Idk about that one. It's a good card. Fun too. But a possible Modern powerhouse?
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
I think Ghonti is miles better, deathtouch means it’s a guaranteed 2x1.
Don’t get me wrong, the card is sweet, but it’s too easily killed/roadblocked :/
Agreed. Way to much hype. It will be a bomb in limited and a sb card for control mirrors. A 2/2 flier is just too fragile to compete with cards like bolas who generate guaranteed value and are harder to kill.
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I think Ghonti is miles better, deathtouch means it’s a guaranteed 2x1.
Don’t get me wrong, the card is sweet, but it’s too easily killed/roadblocked :/
This is a consistency vs. Christmasland debate.
Gonti is, without question, a stable solid play. It'll consistently give your the same level of upside every time.
Nabbit here can produce a bigger upswing (getting you more cards) with support, but can just die to a shock the moment it hits the board.
Like, in a solid tempo/control/saying no deck I think you're getting in with this guy enough to be worth it? But you'll definitely hit states and match-ups this card eats removal.
Drawing from your own deck is a lot better than somebody else's. Grixis Control isn't going to get as much pulling an Arcbound Ravager, Ancient Stirrings, Hollow One, Street Wraith, etc. from someone else's deck as it would digging toward another K. Command in its own.
And Modern isn't exactly a friendly environment to random 2-toughness creatures without a good ETB or hexproof, especially over 2 mana.
YMMV, and go ahead and absolutely give it a shot, but I think RTR-THS's Devotion-heavy meta is making people think this dude has a better pedigree than history shows.
but if there isn't a card there that is a great play for you, you're still taking things away from the other player. and most decks aren't going to be super heavyy on things that are BAD to cast. Take their Hollow One, it denies them that resource, and if you get a single discard discount or even if you pay the full cmc, a threat light control deck won't turn down a 4/4 when you have mana and nothing much to do with it, right?
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I think Ghonti is miles better, deathtouch means it’s a guaranteed 2x1.
Don’t get me wrong, the card is sweet, but it’s too easily killed/roadblocked :/
Well, to be fair Ghonti isn't a creature: he's a spell with a creature attached just like all the ETB creatures. I'm not a big fan of ETB effects on creatures and would prefer creatures to just have activated abilities, but they decided to open the pandoras box and here we are.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Playing against Golgari/Izzet player may be awkward.
Why? I'm pretty sure I'd be running Sentinel Totem in the deck given all the graveyard stuff floating about so it shouldn't be a problem. Even if the only thing they did was Assassin's Trophy it I'm now up a land in a control shell against a mid-range deck. That sounds just lovely for them. That and you don't really need a graveyard with dimir, which is something that Golgari definitely can't live without. That's why I'm more of a pro surveil person than a pro undergrowth person. That and if someone is running surveil they probably will have at least two Enhanced Surveillance in the sideboard or main.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
but if there isn't a card there that is a great play for you, you're still taking things away from the other player. and most decks aren't going to be super heavyy on things that are BAD to cast. Take their Hollow One, it denies them that resource, and if you get a single discard discount or even if you pay the full cmc, a threat light control deck won't turn down a 4/4 when you have mana and nothing much to do with it, right?
1. This is the same trap that Mill aficionados fall into. Since none of the 3 cards go back on top of the library, you aren't leaving them to draw bad cards and so you effectively aren't denying any resources. The top of the library is in effect no different than the bottom if you aren't able to manipulate their draws. (There are niche cases where this isn't true, like if they make bad decisions with a Serum Visions or Jace Brainstorm, but there are also cases where putting things in their graveyard is also advantageous for them, so I'd call it a wash.)
2. I will never argue against getting another resource, but since we're comparing Thief to Shadowmage Infiltrator, we're talking about the difference between drawing from a deck built around someone else's synergies, and drawing from your own, where every card presumably contributes to your gameplan. If you're playing a control/midrange mirror, Thief is probably better by merit of his selection, but against the rest of the format, you probably would rather stick with your own cards.
Plus we're still talking about a 3-mana 2/2 in Modern without an ETB effect or built-in protection/resiliency. The closest thing to that which sees any play is Magus of the Moon, which just turns decks off when he hits the board.
Hopefully, they didn't mill all their Enhanced Surveillance.
My thoughts exactly, this is better than either of them, Gonti only triggers once. This can trigger turn after turn. Also the fact that you can cast anything regardless of if you have the colored mana or not makes it much better than the previous specter.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Face-down exile is kind of confusing to reintroduce with all these Izzet cards referencing the type lines of exiled cards.
We used to call Gonti "Evil Liberace" so I'm going to request this be called as"Flying Liberace" by our group to continue the tradition....
you seriously don't think that this is orders of magnitude better than those? I'm not saying it WILL be a powerhouse, but in a color pair that is already able to keep the board clean, it's nice to be able to take the best of the top 3 cards and have even an off chance of playing it yourself, or even just try to mill meaningful threats. I definitely think the power is there
Similarity to Nightveil Specter, minus the devotion benefit which was the whole reason anyone played Nightveil in the first place.
On phasing:
Drawing from your own deck is a lot better than somebody else's. Grixis Control isn't going to get as much pulling an Arcbound Ravager, Ancient Stirrings, Hollow One, Street Wraith, etc. from someone else's deck as it would digging toward another K. Command in its own.
And Modern isn't exactly a friendly environment to random 2-toughness creatures without a good ETB or hexproof, especially over 2 mana.
YMMV, and go ahead and absolutely give it a shot, but I think RTR-THS's Devotion-heavy meta is making people think this dude has a better pedigree than history shows.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Why? I'm pretty sure I'd be running Sentinel Totem in the deck given all the graveyard stuff floating about so it shouldn't be a problem. Even if the only thing they did was Assassin's Trophy it I'm now up a land in a control shell against a mid-range deck. That sounds just lovely for them. That and you don't really need a graveyard with dimir, which is something that Golgari definitely can't live without. That's why I'm more of a pro surveil person than a pro undergrowth person. That and if someone is running surveil they probably will have at least two Enhanced Surveillance in the sideboard or main.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
...in Modern? The format with Snapcaster + Bolt, T3 Karns and Human beatdowns? Idk about that one. It's a good card. Fun too. But a possible Modern powerhouse?
Don’t get me wrong, the card is sweet, but it’s too easily killed/roadblocked :/
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Agreed. Way to much hype. It will be a bomb in limited and a sb card for control mirrors. A 2/2 flier is just too fragile to compete with cards like bolas who generate guaranteed value and are harder to kill.
Gonti is, without question, a stable solid play. It'll consistently give your the same level of upside every time.
Nabbit here can produce a bigger upswing (getting you more cards) with support, but can just die to a shock the moment it hits the board.
Like, in a solid tempo/control/saying no deck I think you're getting in with this guy enough to be worth it? But you'll definitely hit states and match-ups this card eats removal.
but if there isn't a card there that is a great play for you, you're still taking things away from the other player. and most decks aren't going to be super heavyy on things that are BAD to cast. Take their Hollow One, it denies them that resource, and if you get a single discard discount or even if you pay the full cmc, a threat light control deck won't turn down a 4/4 when you have mana and nothing much to do with it, right?
Well, to be fair Ghonti isn't a creature: he's a spell with a creature attached just like all the ETB creatures. I'm not a big fan of ETB effects on creatures and would prefer creatures to just have activated abilities, but they decided to open the pandoras box and here we are.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
All the specters are Liberace.
That means Urgoros, the Empty One is Witch King Liberace.
I've thought about this myself.
I don't think Sentinel Totem does a whole lot for us. Makes me want to use Sorcerous Spyglass
-Stay Frosty
1. This is the same trap that Mill aficionados fall into. Since none of the 3 cards go back on top of the library, you aren't leaving them to draw bad cards and so you effectively aren't denying any resources. The top of the library is in effect no different than the bottom if you aren't able to manipulate their draws. (There are niche cases where this isn't true, like if they make bad decisions with a Serum Visions or Jace Brainstorm, but there are also cases where putting things in their graveyard is also advantageous for them, so I'd call it a wash.)
2. I will never argue against getting another resource, but since we're comparing Thief to Shadowmage Infiltrator, we're talking about the difference between drawing from a deck built around someone else's synergies, and drawing from your own, where every card presumably contributes to your gameplan. If you're playing a control/midrange mirror, Thief is probably better by merit of his selection, but against the rest of the format, you probably would rather stick with your own cards.
Plus we're still talking about a 3-mana 2/2 in Modern without an ETB effect or built-in protection/resiliency. The closest thing to that which sees any play is Magus of the Moon, which just turns decks off when he hits the board.