The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon. If it is reprinted it will be in a "wacky draft" booster pack set, as others have speculated.
Not to mention releasing it in a Commander Pre-Con will not really bring its price down substantially, so al lyou would really be doing is harming Commander players who wanted the deck that Oubliette came in.
A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon. If it is reprinted it will be in a "wacky draft" booster pack set, as others have speculated.
Not to mention releasing it in a Commander Pre-Con will not really bring its price down substantially, so al lyou would really be doing is harming Commander players who wanted the deck that Oubliette came in.
Or it could be in a Signature Spellbook for Liliana? I personally hope it to be in a draft set and likely at uncommon if I had to guess.
If you switch Oubliette to Phasing, then it will gain an additional ability - 502.15i When a permanent phases out, any local enchantments or Equipment attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out "indirectly." An enchantment or Equipment that phased out indirectly won't phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the card it's attached to.
Equipment will Phase Out with the Creature, in addition to Enchantments.
And that's exactly why Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin can't make the targeted creature phase out, because Wizards would be giving those cards functionality they're not meant to have.
Coffin and Oubliette used to use phasing because it was actually simpler and more elegant.
The reasoning why it was changed back to the clunky wordfest? According to Mark L. Gottlieb, the writer of the article:
Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin
Originally, these cards didn't phase creatures out. They were printed years before phasing was invented. Then, somewhere along the way, someone realized that using phasing was a concise, convenient way to mimic the (long, clunkily worded) functionality of these cards. The tricky part of Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin isn't that they remove creatures from the game and return them to play later. The tricky part is that those creatures retain any enchantments and any counters on them. This is really hard to express, since it's the opposite of how any other zone-change effect works . . . except phasing. So hooray for shortcuts.
The problem is that phasing doesn't exactly mimic the functionality. What's different?
When a creature phases out, it won't trigger leaves-play effects. Based on these cards' wordings, it should.
When a creature phases in, it won't trigger comes-into-play effects. Based on these cards' wordings, it should.
When a creature phases in, it's treated as though it has haste. This rarely matters with Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin since the creatures return to play tapped, but in case the creature becomes untapped, it shouldn't be able to attack or use abilities that turn.
When a creature phases out, any Equipment attached to it phases out too. Based on these cards' wordings, it shouldn't.
If Oubliette or Tawnos's Coffin leaves play and the phase-in effect is Stifled, the removed creature will phase in the following turn. Based on these cards' wordings, it should remain removed from the game forever.
Of course, Oubliette and Tawnos's Coffin predate comes-into-play effects, leaves-play effects, Equipment, and Stifle. But those things all exist now, and they need to work intuitively with the card that you're holding in your hand. Therefore, phasing is leaving these cards in favor of a wording that goes back to their original (long, clunky) wordings. They'll work as printed (or as close to it as modernly possible).
I actually linked that article earlier, but yes, I agree with that reasoning. Also, the "remove from the game" wording was present pre-6th Edition and I'm fairly sure the reasoning they used was that "out of play" means "not in play" (i.e., not in what they called the "in-play zone" at the time).
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A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon.
When it's only $30 because of scarcity far more than demand, sure they will. Strategic Planning hit $65 in 2012. Then they put it in a commander deck. Now you can get a copy (of the new printing) for under $0.30 .
I think it would be difficult to place in a product, being an exile effect in Black, of all colors. I know they used to get that kind of thing fairly frequently with the nightmares and horrors, but not anymore.
Despite that, it would be wonderful if they were to reprint it.
In the end, if you really want to play with this card in paper... just buy it now. I did it with mine and I was finally happy to have them in my pauper deck. I know I've spent even more money on even dumber cards that I never even ended up playing. Hell that's how I ended up with Ponza in modern.
I think it would be difficult to place in a product, being an exile effect in Black, of all colors. I know they used to get that kind of thing fairly frequently with the nightmares and horrors, but not anymore.
??
Current standard has Infernal Reckoning, Necrotic Wound, Grotesque Demise, Reaver Ambush, Settle the Score, and Vraska’s Contempt. All six of these can exile a creature from the battlefield. Exiling a creature from the battlefield is not out of pie for black.
I think it would be difficult to place in a product, being an exile effect in Black, of all colors. I know they used to get that kind of thing fairly frequently with the nightmares and horrors, but not anymore.
Despite that, it would be wonderful if they were to reprint it.
Ashes to Ashes ? Seems like it's been in Black's color pie for awhile!
A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon. If it is reprinted it will be in a "wacky draft" booster pack set, as others have speculated.
Not to mention releasing it in a Commander Pre-Con will not really bring its price down substantially, so al lyou would really be doing is harming Commander players who wanted the deck that Oubliette came in.
i haaaaaaaaaate this approach.
it keeps viable, needed, commander reprints from being printed where they belong. wotc controls the supply. they need to get their ***** together and put reprints like these back into the commander precons, and if those precons are selling too well to the noncommander players... increase supply.
i mean, those precons went from a medium to facilitate needed reprints, things that even commander players wanted to buy multiples of, to boring samey garbage largely because of this factor. where people might've bought 2 or 3 because of high value reprints, now they do for the legacy plant, and no other reason. meanwhile, staples that are easily reprinted, staples that every commander player wants... climb in price. while a product that can have any of them reprinted in it, deoesn't, because they're $30+ dollars and "including those would make the product sell to noncommander players"
A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon. If it is reprinted it will be in a "wacky draft" booster pack set, as others have speculated.
Not to mention releasing it in a Commander Pre-Con will not really bring its price down substantially, so al lyou would really be doing is harming Commander players who wanted the deck that Oubliette came in.
i haaaaaaaaaate this approach.
it keeps viable, needed, commander reprints from being printed where they belong. wotc controls the supply. they need to get their ***** together and put reprints like these back into the commander precons, and if those precons are selling too well to the noncommander players... increase supply.
i mean, those precons went from a medium to facilitate needed reprints, things that even commander players wanted to buy multiples of, to boring samey garbage largely because of this factor. where people might've bought 2 or 3 because of high value reprints, now they do for the legacy plant, and no other reason. meanwhile, staples that are easily reprinted, staples that every commander player wants... climb in price. while a product that can have any of them reprinted in it, deoesn't, because they're $30+ dollars and "including those would make the product sell to noncommander players"
I think the issue is when one deck becomes more popular then the others, because retailers have to order boxes, which come with the same number of each deck in them. So to facilitate demand for the popular deck, stores have to foot the bill for all the less popular decks.
Of course, WotC could put equally popular (or roughly so) cards in each deck, then this would not be as much of an issue... But that requires careful planning, planning that I think WotC is oftentimes pretty bad at - hence why they just don't put good cards in at all.
Yeah, if it gets reprinted in something it'll probably be the already reprint-heavy Conspiracy/Battlebond line. They cut the masters sets, probably, because they figured out that they don't need so many reprint lines as they compete for sales. Mashing all that product into one would widen customer base interested in buying it.
And what's special about it is, in the following order:
1) It's from an ancient set and a notoriously underprinted one at that.
2) It happens to be pauper legal, but also very much playable in oldschool.
3) It's an oblivion ring, and removal in pauper is curently measured by the way-too-high standard of whether something can remove Gurmag Angler (5/5 black zombie), and it does, as opposed to way too many other things.
4) It's removal which gives you 2 devotion to black, and it's in every Mono Black devotion list on the net, as it also fuels Garry. It's not really played very much outside of that deck, but it's a no-brainer obvious choice for it. And the deck beats up all three of the current Tier 1 decks at the moment rather handily.
"Masques Block is the worst block ever! There's not one decent card in there! The whole internet say's so, you're literally the only person who ever said it was good!" - random noob in a conversation with an Eldrazi.
I think it would be difficult to place in a product, being an exile effect in Black, of all colors. I know they used to get that kind of thing fairly frequently with the nightmares and horrors, but not anymore.
??
Current standard has Infernal Reckoning, Necrotic Wound, Grotesque Demise, Reaver Ambush, Settle the Score, and Vraska’s Contempt. All six of these can exile a creature from the battlefield. Exiling a creature from the battlefield is not out of pie for black.
To me, I see Black as not really wanting to exile stuff. Destroy, yes. Black has always been about destroying things, making people sacrifice things, or slowly weakening them to death. But to permanently remove something, from a lorewise perspective? That seems like a lot of trouble to go to, and it almost seems altruistic. It also seems rash and heavy handed, and while Black can be impulsive, it's rarely dumb.
My point is that Black is actually a rather tolerant color, the inverse of White, as it were. Black can put up with a LOT in order to achieve its goals; it will think nothing of hanging around in reeking swamps, gory to the elbows as it rips bodies to pieces for spare parts or zombie aesthetic improvements. It seems a bit off that Black just wants to go "Nope, I don't like that thing, goodbye" and erase whatever is threatening it when it has multiple ways of working around threats that are much more established.
Will be interesting to see how exactly R&D rework/reword the card to be functionally identical but not take several minutes for each player to decipher a wall of tiny text.
"When Dimensional Dungeon enters the battlefield, target creature phases out. That creature can't phase in for as long as Dimensional Dungeon is on the battlefield."
No Oblivion Ring-ish blink trick with this one, though.
Going to agree with this. As it would actually be the more elegant solution since phasing doesn't do ETB/LTB and tokens would still be fine if affected by this.
The suggestion for how it could work with phasing was suggested by WOTC in 2005 as:
When Oubliette comes into play, target creature phases out. That creature can’t phase in as long as Oubliette remains in play.
When Oubliette leaves play, the creature phases in tapped.
If the secondary effect is prevented, The affected creature still phases in because it is phased out, just at a later date instead of instantaneously. If it were to be updated like with Void Nothing's suggestion, all it would do is simply not force the creature to phase back in as soon as Oubliette left the field.
That's not a terrible idea, but it would limit design space should they ever want to do anything that interacts with phasing. I doubt they ever will, but they like to keep design space like that open. It'd also be a functional change, which they're loathe to do.
I think something involving a variation on Skullbriar's template would be a better fit. I've shown how this can fit on a card within the text sizes they've been established to use (10 lines and 1 line break). It would never work on a card with a rare holostamp, but if it's reprinted at common or uncommon in a preconstructed deck product, it's a definite possibility.
ATTACHMENTS
oubliette testbox
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That does work for oubliette, I can see what you mean without the rare holostamp. Plus there was a post on blogatog awhile back on phasing and that if they were to do it again, 8 as-is OR 7 with rules adjustments in regards to the stormscale. So there might be a chance that oubliette if reprinted with phasing might use newer phasing rules than the current existing rules.
A $30+ card probably won't be reprinted in a commander precon.
When it's only $30 because of scarcity far more than demand, sure they will. Strategic Planning hit $65 in 2012. Then they put it in a commander deck. Now you can get a copy (of the new printing) for under $0.30 .
Well yes, the new printing is a common that was printed in a major expansion. The portal three kingdoms version is still around $10. More than that, though, that commander printing you're talking about was in 2013 in the notorious grixis deck that also had true-name nemesis that quickly became far more sought after than the other decks and made accessibility a real issue. I really don't think it is a good example at all of the wizards reprint guidelines for commander sets nowadays.
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Not to mention releasing it in a Commander Pre-Con will not really bring its price down substantially, so al lyou would really be doing is harming Commander players who wanted the deck that Oubliette came in.
Or it could be in a Signature Spellbook for Liliana? I personally hope it to be in a draft set and likely at uncommon if I had to guess.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
I actually linked that article earlier, but yes, I agree with that reasoning. Also, the "remove from the game" wording was present pre-6th Edition and I'm fairly sure the reasoning they used was that "out of play" means "not in play" (i.e., not in what they called the "in-play zone" at the time).
I think more than anything is it's just a black Oblivion ring. It hasn't seen print in a very long time and supply is pretty low.
And hey it's kind of cool
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
pauper unconditional removal that dont trigger "aristocrats" effect, in black
but at the end, the price reflect the low supply of the card.
edit: while unmake does the "same", this hate out rancor and helps devotion of Gray Merchant of Asphodel
When it's only $30 because of scarcity far more than demand, sure they will. Strategic Planning hit $65 in 2012. Then they put it in a commander deck. Now you can get a copy (of the new printing) for under $0.30 .
Despite that, it would be wonderful if they were to reprint it.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/13649 - My all foil cube.
??
Current standard has Infernal Reckoning, Necrotic Wound, Grotesque Demise, Reaver Ambush, Settle the Score, and Vraska’s Contempt. All six of these can exile a creature from the battlefield. Exiling a creature from the battlefield is not out of pie for black.
Ashes to Ashes ? Seems like it's been in Black's color pie for awhile!
Oblivion ring is not on black color pie nowadays.
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
i haaaaaaaaaate this approach.
it keeps viable, needed, commander reprints from being printed where they belong. wotc controls the supply. they need to get their ***** together and put reprints like these back into the commander precons, and if those precons are selling too well to the noncommander players... increase supply.
i mean, those precons went from a medium to facilitate needed reprints, things that even commander players wanted to buy multiples of, to boring samey garbage largely because of this factor. where people might've bought 2 or 3 because of high value reprints, now they do for the legacy plant, and no other reason. meanwhile, staples that are easily reprinted, staples that every commander player wants... climb in price. while a product that can have any of them reprinted in it, deoesn't, because they're $30+ dollars and "including those would make the product sell to noncommander players"
I think the issue is when one deck becomes more popular then the others, because retailers have to order boxes, which come with the same number of each deck in them. So to facilitate demand for the popular deck, stores have to foot the bill for all the less popular decks.
Of course, WotC could put equally popular (or roughly so) cards in each deck, then this would not be as much of an issue... But that requires careful planning, planning that I think WotC is oftentimes pretty bad at - hence why they just don't put good cards in at all.
And what's special about it is, in the following order:
1) It's from an ancient set and a notoriously underprinted one at that.
2) It happens to be pauper legal, but also very much playable in oldschool.
3) It's an oblivion ring, and removal in pauper is curently measured by the way-too-high standard of whether something can remove Gurmag Angler (5/5 black zombie), and it does, as opposed to way too many other things.
4) It's removal which gives you 2 devotion to black, and it's in every Mono Black devotion list on the net, as it also fuels Garry. It's not really played very much outside of that deck, but it's a no-brainer obvious choice for it. And the deck beats up all three of the current Tier 1 decks at the moment rather handily.
To me, I see Black as not really wanting to exile stuff. Destroy, yes. Black has always been about destroying things, making people sacrifice things, or slowly weakening them to death. But to permanently remove something, from a lorewise perspective? That seems like a lot of trouble to go to, and it almost seems altruistic. It also seems rash and heavy handed, and while Black can be impulsive, it's rarely dumb.
My point is that Black is actually a rather tolerant color, the inverse of White, as it were. Black can put up with a LOT in order to achieve its goals; it will think nothing of hanging around in reeking swamps, gory to the elbows as it rips bodies to pieces for spare parts or zombie aesthetic improvements. It seems a bit off that Black just wants to go "Nope, I don't like that thing, goodbye" and erase whatever is threatening it when it has multiple ways of working around threats that are much more established.
That's not a terrible idea, but it would limit design space should they ever want to do anything that interacts with phasing. I doubt they ever will, but they like to keep design space like that open. It'd also be a functional change, which they're loathe to do.
I think something involving a variation on Skullbriar's template would be a better fit. I've shown how this can fit on a card within the text sizes they've been established to use (10 lines and 1 line break). It would never work on a card with a rare holostamp, but if it's reprinted at common or uncommon in a preconstructed deck product, it's a definite possibility.
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Well yes, the new printing is a common that was printed in a major expansion. The portal three kingdoms version is still around $10. More than that, though, that commander printing you're talking about was in 2013 in the notorious grixis deck that also had true-name nemesis that quickly became far more sought after than the other decks and made accessibility a real issue. I really don't think it is a good example at all of the wizards reprint guidelines for commander sets nowadays.