“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Ah, but now without MSRP no one will know if they rised the price of their products, so they don't have to make up excuses to keep the playerbase calm.
So how exactly is wizards going to actually succeed on printing what people want when they know actively doing so will just destroy the current game completely? They may have thousands of different cards, but only a fraction of them are worth a damn to most players and commander is about the only place that second best cards can even see play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So how exactly is wizards going to actually succeed on printing what people want when they know actively doing so will just destroy the current game completely? They may have thousands of different cards, but only a fraction of them are worth a damn to most players and commander is about the only place that second best cards can even see play.
The same way they put Wurmcoil Engine in 2014 and and no one complained. It is possible to reprint sought after cards and the game isn't destroyed, in fact it happens often.
The idea that reprints will destroy the game is bunk.
So how exactly is wizards going to actually succeed on printing what people want when they know actively doing so will just destroy the current game completely? They may have thousands of different cards, but only a fraction of them are worth a damn to most players and commander is about the only place that second best cards can even see play.
The same way they put Wurmcoil Engine in 2014 and and no one complained. It is possible to reprint sought after cards and the game isn't destroyed, in fact it happens often.
The idea that reprints will destroy the game is bunk.
I am baffled that there are people that still are afraid of reprinting cards because the game will die. Just do some decent reprints already!
I am baffled that there are people that still are afraid of reprinting cards because the game will die. Just do some decent reprints already!
Same here, Khans wasn't all that long ago and people forget how printing the allied fetches brought them from $60-$100+ down to $6-$10. I did not hear any complaining about "the death of the game is nigh" from anyone about how the price of a few cards dropped.
It's asinine to assume cards being reprinted will kill a game. Pokemon puts $20-$50+ reprints in various products and not one person decrees how doom will befall the card game.
I am baffled that there are people that still are afraid of reprinting cards because the game will die. Just do some decent reprints already!
By using chronicles as a scapegoat, investors and hoarders manipulate the truth to gain more money
Always voice your opinion, always remember the truth, always ask for reprints
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
"I didn't buy Apple stock 20 years ago, before they rise in price, so the company should release them cheap and in bulk to the public, that way everyone could have them."
Some people managed to get lucky and bought some old cards way ahead of time, and justly rewarded for their timing and decision. I don't mind reprints, but I don't see the need to want them, to the point of being acidic towards the game company.
------
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
MtG in general is not an expensive game, even staples in most formats are affordable to have multiple copies. The only ones that are ridiculously expensive are the ones that go into Legacy/Classic environment, most of those are overpowered cards anyway, degenerating to a healthy game. If a person thinks s/he needs Mishra's Workshop to make their artifact deck work, then the person should REALLY consider their mentality and skills, not the card price.
"I didn't buy Apple stock 20 years ago, before they rise in price, so the company should release them cheap and in bulk to the public, that way everyone could have them."
Some people managed to get lucky and bought some old cards way ahead of time, and justly rewarded for their timing and decision. I don't mind reprints, but I don't see the need to want them, to the point of being acidic towards the game company.
------
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
MtG in general is not an expensive game, even staples in most formats are affordable to have multiple copies. The only ones that are ridiculously expensive are the ones that go into Legacy/Classic environment, most of those are overpowered cards anyway, degenerating to a healthy game. If a person thinks s/he needs Mishra's Workshop to make their artifact deck work, then the person should REALLY consider their mentality and skills, not the card price.
One ought to differentiate desire and necessity.
This borders on satire, bro. There’s literally not a single necessary card. This is a game played as a hobby so none of it is necessary.
"I didn't buy Apple stock 20 years ago, before they rise in price, so the company should release them cheap and in bulk to the public, that way everyone could have them."
lol you know that your argument is really a failure when you have to compare market stocks to gaming cards.
What's next, comparing deckboxes to estates?
and you and i can have a diffetent concept of "ridicolous expensive". for me, for example, oracle of mul daya right now is ridicolous expensive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
"I didn't buy Apple stock 20 years ago, before they rise in price, so the company should release them cheap and in bulk to the public, that way everyone could have them."
lol you know that your argument is really a failure when you have to compare market stocks to gaming cards.
What's next, comparing deckboxes to estates?
and you and i can have a diffetent concept of "ridicolous expensive". for me, for example, oracle of mul daya right now is ridicolous expensive.
Cards have value. Items like estates and cars have value. So yes, that would be a valid comparison.
Remember too that some cards' cash value could be used as a down payment on a car or outright buy one if you play them right (:D). It's all relative.
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
And yet, if the reprint it, it could be a $10 card rather than a $100 card. So the question now becomes "Why do the cards I want in my deck need to cost $100?"
WotC has an entire page dedicated to announcing Core Set 2020 and Commander 2019, the two products we all already assumed they were going to release this year. The amount of new info could have been contained in a tweet. I remember when set announcements would have some key art, or a cryptic hint about what the set would contain.
I'd say I'm shocked WotC has done this, but that would obviously be a lie.
I'd say I'm shocked this not-news has generated three pages of discussion, but that would also obviously be a lie.
I mean coreset makes sense since presumably it might have spoilers on the post Bolas vs Gatewatch Arc.
Commander though is probably cause last time they made promises and then screwed up by not really doing great on the themes they promised. The Lands Deck was especially bad seeing Windgrace was nice but for an Oldwalker who is only likely to get one card...they failed.
I have played hundreds of Commander games since the C18 cards were released and despite being cheap and being a thumbnail away the only new generals I've seen more than once are Aminatou and Brudiclad.
C18 sucked, C19 has to be at least as good as C16 or I'm not buying anything now that MSRP is gone and non-murrica players can look forward to these being $60+ at the LGS because there's no competition from big box or Gamestop.
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
And yet, if the reprint it, it could be a $10 card rather than a $100 card. So the question now becomes "Why do the cards I want in my deck need to cost $100?"
Exactly. Cards that are not on the Reserved List really have no reason to cost more than $50. It does nothing for the game where it costs a average-ly cheap car to get into the game. The game doesn't do well just because you can use the game as a diet stock market to put away for your retirement, it does well because people can play the game and have fun, not so Alpha Investments can make a killing on the secondary market.
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
And yet, if the reprint it, it could be a $10 card rather than a $100 card. So the question now becomes "Why do the cards I want in my deck need to cost $100?"
Exactly. Cards that are not on the Reserved List really have no reason to cost more than $50. It does nothing for the game where it costs a average-ly cheap car to get into the game. The game doesn't do well just because you can use the game as a diet stock market to put away for your retirement, it does well because people can play the game and have fun, not so Alpha Investments can make a killing on the secondary market.
And the amount of money people make on Magic is really tiny. If they put the same time and energy into the stock market, they would make way more.
But stocks do not come with pretty pictures, so it is less fun
So how exactly is wizards going to actually succeed on printing what people want when they know actively doing so will just destroy the current game completely? They may have thousands of different cards, but only a fraction of them are worth a damn to most players and commander is about the only place that second best cards can even see play.
The same way they put Wurmcoil Engine in 2014 and and no one complained. It is possible to reprint sought after cards and the game isn't destroyed, in fact it happens often.
The idea that reprints will destroy the game is bunk.
I guess I should preface that last statement with game balance in mind. There is basically a little war that happens between marketing and game designers where one end just says "make super broken stuff people chase after so they buy lots of boxes" and the other side going "yeah, but then we are just going to become like the japanese tcg industry that keeps making things like catapult turtle and reflect refrain".
Thankfully, Maro and the team got a good push towards taking a balanced approach, but that cheap marketing crap is still coming through.
The ones actually holding back the flood gates are probably the designers, with all the crazy stuff with gimped secondary products being some sort of compromise.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"I didn't buy Apple stock 20 years ago, before they rise in price, so the company should release them cheap and in bulk to the public, that way everyone could have them."
Some people managed to get lucky and bought some old cards way ahead of time, and justly rewarded for their timing and decision. I don't mind reprints, but I don't see the need to want them, to the point of being acidic towards the game company.
------
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
MtG in general is not an expensive game, even staples in most formats are affordable to have multiple copies. The only ones that are ridiculously expensive are the ones that go into Legacy/Classic environment, most of those are overpowered cards anyway, degenerating to a healthy game. If a person thinks s/he needs Mishra's Workshop to make their artifact deck work, then the person should REALLY consider their mentality and skills, not the card price.
One ought to differentiate desire and necessity.
Okay, you used Mishra's Workshop as an example. So, let me ask you:
1. Is there another card in this game that is as close to it without being it? No. There is no land that gives you three instant colorless mana to cast artifacts other than this card.
2. Is there a suitable alternative? I personally don't know, but I suspect that the answer to that is also a no, because when you know what the best card to use in a certain deck is, anything else simply isn't going to do it. It's like if you had a car and that got impounded, but you still have a bicycle. Not sufficient, and certainly not even comparable.
3. Can you build the deck(s) that utilizes it to greatest effect without it? I suspect the answer to this is a yes, as while having the right cards is certainly helpful, skill and dexterity are far more important.
Also, I find people who quibble over the 'want vs. need' thing to be hopelessly pedantic. If you were dying of thirst, and I asked you if you wanted some water, and you said "Yes, I need it.", then to your mind it would be reasonable of me to smile and pour it out on the ground while going "Ah, but you don't WANT it."
I just rewatched that stream and nothing bout prices came up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWWTvx0YgV8 (45:10-48:34 is where they talk bout the decks).
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My 720 Peasant Cube
The same way they put Wurmcoil Engine in 2014 and and no one complained. It is possible to reprint sought after cards and the game isn't destroyed, in fact it happens often.
The idea that reprints will destroy the game is bunk.
Huh. I wonder why I thought that?
I am baffled that there are people that still are afraid of reprinting cards because the game will die. Just do some decent reprints already!
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Same here, Khans wasn't all that long ago and people forget how printing the allied fetches brought them from $60-$100+ down to $6-$10. I did not hear any complaining about "the death of the game is nigh" from anyone about how the price of a few cards dropped.
It's asinine to assume cards being reprinted will kill a game. Pokemon puts $20-$50+ reprints in various products and not one person decrees how doom will befall the card game.
By using chronicles as a scapegoat, investors and hoarders manipulate the truth to gain more money
Always voice your opinion, always remember the truth, always ask for reprints
Some people managed to get lucky and bought some old cards way ahead of time, and justly rewarded for their timing and decision. I don't mind reprints, but I don't see the need to want them, to the point of being acidic towards the game company.
------
People should really ask themselves: 1) Why do I need $100+ cards in my deck, in a format that's meant to be casual? 2) Do I require a $100 card in my deck to make it good or perhaps I just need better deck-building?
MtG in general is not an expensive game, even staples in most formats are affordable to have multiple copies. The only ones that are ridiculously expensive are the ones that go into Legacy/Classic environment, most of those are overpowered cards anyway, degenerating to a healthy game. If a person thinks s/he needs Mishra's Workshop to make their artifact deck work, then the person should REALLY consider their mentality and skills, not the card price.
One ought to differentiate desire and necessity.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
This borders on satire, bro. There’s literally not a single necessary card. This is a game played as a hobby so none of it is necessary.
lol you know that your argument is really a failure when you have to compare market stocks to gaming cards.
What's next, comparing deckboxes to estates?
and you and i can have a diffetent concept of "ridicolous expensive". for me, for example, oracle of mul daya right now is ridicolous expensive.
Cards have value. Items like estates and cars have value. So yes, that would be a valid comparison.
Remember too that some cards' cash value could be used as a down payment on a car or outright buy one if you play them right (:D). It's all relative.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Magic bundle contains a dice made of plastic.
Rockets contains parts made of plastic.
Ergo, you can put satellites in orbits with your bundles.
PS: you can consult the modern price thread to see who's a speculator and assess their arguments accordingly.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
I'd say I'm shocked WotC has done this, but that would obviously be a lie.
I'd say I'm shocked this not-news has generated three pages of discussion, but that would also obviously be a lie.
Commander though is probably cause last time they made promises and then screwed up by not really doing great on the themes they promised. The Lands Deck was especially bad seeing Windgrace was nice but for an Oldwalker who is only likely to get one card...they failed.
C18 sucked, C19 has to be at least as good as C16 or I'm not buying anything now that MSRP is gone and non-murrica players can look forward to these being $60+ at the LGS because there's no competition from big box or Gamestop.
Granted its had to go wrong with UB as part of your color identity in Commander.
Exactly. Cards that are not on the Reserved List really have no reason to cost more than $50. It does nothing for the game where it costs a average-ly cheap car to get into the game. The game doesn't do well just because you can use the game as a diet stock market to put away for your retirement, it does well because people can play the game and have fun, not so Alpha Investments can make a killing on the secondary market.
And the amount of money people make on Magic is really tiny. If they put the same time and energy into the stock market, they would make way more.
But stocks do not come with pretty pictures, so it is less fun
They wouldn't be able to handle the stock market since they think they're entitled to a completely stable market with zero variables.
Touché
I guess I should preface that last statement with game balance in mind. There is basically a little war that happens between marketing and game designers where one end just says "make super broken stuff people chase after so they buy lots of boxes" and the other side going "yeah, but then we are just going to become like the japanese tcg industry that keeps making things like catapult turtle and reflect refrain".
Thankfully, Maro and the team got a good push towards taking a balanced approach, but that cheap marketing crap is still coming through.
The ones actually holding back the flood gates are probably the designers, with all the crazy stuff with gimped secondary products being some sort of compromise.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Okay, you used Mishra's Workshop as an example. So, let me ask you:
1. Is there another card in this game that is as close to it without being it? No. There is no land that gives you three instant colorless mana to cast artifacts other than this card.
2. Is there a suitable alternative? I personally don't know, but I suspect that the answer to that is also a no, because when you know what the best card to use in a certain deck is, anything else simply isn't going to do it. It's like if you had a car and that got impounded, but you still have a bicycle. Not sufficient, and certainly not even comparable.
3. Can you build the deck(s) that utilizes it to greatest effect without it? I suspect the answer to this is a yes, as while having the right cards is certainly helpful, skill and dexterity are far more important.
Also, I find people who quibble over the 'want vs. need' thing to be hopelessly pedantic. If you were dying of thirst, and I asked you if you wanted some water, and you said "Yes, I need it.", then to your mind it would be reasonable of me to smile and pour it out on the ground while going "Ah, but you don't WANT it."