Flood Plain et al - slow fetches are simple, effective for people that can't/won't shell out for the big fetches, and an enemy cycle of five to pair with the Mirage five would make a pretty good mana fixing setup at uncommon IMO. You don't NEED a rare land cycle to sell a set, I don't think.
That is a great idea!
It gives budget players are budget fetch land and it stays with in WotC's arbitrary restriction of no currently modern-legal reprints in the set!
it is just that the timmy factor in our community increased and wizards noticed this. this product is not to evolve modern but to diversify the product range and sell a product with the same costs of developement and production for a higher price to all these people that are willing to pay for it.
arguably this kind of sets have a lower production cost than Standard sets: you skip most of the design and testing part.
I dont think so in this case, there a re new cards and reprints of cards not currently in modern so they had to test stuff up to a point.
MaRo has stated that the Play Design Team has rigorously tested the new set with existing Modern. I'd argue this set has more testing behind it than an average Standard set, as there's just so much more to Modern than Standard. If they did their jobs, and I'm hoping they did, then developing and testing this was a monumental task. But we shall see once the spoilers begin in under 3 months.
This is pretty cool. I'm excited: good reprints and good new cards. It's like a core set, but not totally boring. Hopefully pack prices will be reasonable.
I would love to see Mirage fetches (finish the damn cycle, Wizards), but I don't see why they would need to bypass Standard...
If i had to take a guess, the image on the left side of the stream could be the phyrexianised mishra after he fused with some of the machines around him
Aside from the skeletal appearance, I get precisely zero Phyrexian vibes from this. Even then, Phyrexia doesn't really have a monopoly on skeletons.
Actually, what if they do? OH MY GOD HAVE WE ALL BEEN PHYREXIAN SLEEPER AGENTS THIS ENTIRE TIME?!
Grim Tutor - Yes it's $200, but that'll drive pack sales at the gun while not being an obscenely broken card. 4 mana tutors are way too expensive for really any format (Mastermind's Acquisition meme decks notwithstanding) and 2 mana tutors are way too cheap. 3 mana and 3 life is on the heavier side, but if you need an answer NOW then you need it now, and this gets it for you.
Much as I want a Grim Tutor reprint -- and I really want a Grim Tutor reprint -- pretty much everyone I've talked to about this who's a judge (although that is, admittedly, only three people) has said that putting Grim Tutor in Modern would be a Bad Idea. Before the reveal of MH1, I pitched it for Standard, and they said that might be acceptable, but Modern caused problems. They said it would probably be more acceptable if it got the Memory Jar treatment in Modern.
Reprinting it would make it accessible for commander, which is what I think a lot of people would want it for. Its current price is about ten times what I'm willing to pay for it, and I think most other people are not about to shell out $180 for it, considering I have never seen anyone playing one irl.
Flood Plain et al - slow fetches are simple, effective for people that can't/won't shell out for the big fetches, and an enemy cycle of five to pair with the Mirage five would make a pretty good mana fixing setup at uncommon IMO. You don't NEED a rare land cycle to sell a set, I don't think.
This, however, I would support. These are solid lands that I think get left by the wayside a lot in favor of the faster fetches. Not top tier for Modern, but playable, and good in other formats. (Sidenote: I went and looked these up on Scryfall again and Bad River is like twice the price of the others. Is there a reason for this other than people really loving blue and black?)
I would love to see Mirage fetches (finish the damn cycle, Wizards), but I don't see why they would need to bypass Standard...
The higher ups at WotC *hate* fetch lands. They will not print them in Standard without a big fight (because it will warp the post-modern format (whenever it comes about)).
What do you all think the chances of Daze getting into this set are? As a delver player I would love to see Daze and I don't think the power level is too high, however, WOTC has shown that they don't like powerful counter magic and don't like alternate costs. I think it's 40% chance it's in the set, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.
i have a feeling they wanna unite legacy and modern... legacy is a thorn in their side, because of the reserved list
+ there will most certainly be a new non-rotating format for arena => the powerlevel steadily increases
i dont think they will get legacy players to join this format ("new" modern) if the don´t print cards like brainstorm, sylvan library, entomb, ancient tomb, wasteland, fow....
with a new non rotating format u can increase the powerlevel of modern and make it a legacy-light version, cause the new non-rotating arena format will get close to moderns current power level after a few years
If they are bringing cards to modern, I see baleful strix, containment priest, mother of runes, and probably flusterstorm. Shardless Agent might show up as well as true name nemesis.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Honestly it looks more like one of the warped/twisted Emrakul influenced creatures similar to the melds of innistrad. My guess is it's a corrupted, colorless Serra angel warped by emrakul.
As for cards I see as a shoe in:
Counterspell
Baleful Strix
Flame Rift Price of Progress
Oubliette
Toxic Deluge
Containment Priest
Arena Rector
Just my thoughts on silly things ^.^
i dont think we are going to see that, Modern is already basically a format that starts at 17-15 life at the get go, this would basically kill so many decks and turn mono red or R/W R/G into tier 1 decks which you can argue they already are.
Heck wasteland would be more fair or rishadan port then price.
Aside from what you mentioned , id like daze, goblin ringleader , true name nemesis , mother of runes maybe nevs disk
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
This thread is full of idiots... Lightning Bolt is NOT being reprinted.
Many times has a writer in Wizards said so, because of the plain and simple fact that it's too powerful for what it costs. x/3 creatures shouldn't be able to die at instant speed for one mana without a signifigant drawback. (like PTE giving you a land)
I absolutely guarantee that LB will not be printed in M10, and you can quote me on that.
I really doubt they're looking to introduce 500+ cards to modern. How many cards are legacy fringe even or realistically modern fringe that aren't already legal in modern? Creatures, especially, have seen a massive power boost since 8th edition and I don't know if there's a single creature from pre modern that's playable, leaving a few choice selections from supplemental products. I also doubt they're doing stax stuff. They might do wasteland or force, but I'm pretty sure a dedicated lockout deck is out of the question. There's also reserved list which takes out a chunk of the not modern legal as well. I also don't see black rituals and lotus petal coming. They don't seem to be too hot on storm or dredge being better. So, realistically, are there even 50 cards that aren't modern legal that might be tolerable to fun to reprint into modern? Goblins got most of their toys already. It also seems like people's lists are almost exclusively instant/sorcery.
WotC can add 500+ cards to Modern from past sets if they want to...it doesn't mean they are all constructed playable, just like every set they create. I did search Scryfall for legal Legacy cards that are not Modern legal and not on the Reserved list (-legal:modern legal:legacy -is:reserved) to give ~5400 cards. If you take out creatures and lands you end up with ~2500 cards in the pool. You are right that there are probably a handful that would make an immediate impact on Modern if they were reprinted today. I'm sure they had to playtest the Legacy cards next to the Modern cards to see what worked well. That sounds familiar right?
This set was originally conceived a couple years ago and the final cards were probably finalized sometime 4Q18. If their desire was to make money, help people get into Modern through recent sets, and give access to long out of print/expensive cards in the process...wouldn't it be a surprise that some of the cards from the other Iconic, Eternal, A25, and Ultimate sets that were NOT modern playable then become playable in Modern eventually? (-legal:modern legal:legacy (set:uma OR set:a25 OR set:ima OR set:ema) [233 cards]. The numbers are kind of crazy that if you really wanted to be uber cheap you print that list with modifications for draft purposes plus add in some original cards to make 254. Legacy legal ONLY breakdown EMA-IMA-A25-UMA Rarity: 17M, 61R, 81U, 75C. [W30, U42, B42, R35, G38, M22, A14, L10] I'm not saying they are doing this, but it's low hanging fruit since you just need to change the set symbol. They essentially piloted post-Horizon Modern over the last year to see how some powerful Legacy cards interacted with Modern legal cards.
If Horizon Canopy is not in this, we can all agree that it's the ULTIMATE flavor fail, right?
it wont be in as the set is only new cards and reprints of what isnt in modern yet, they can however complete the cycle of those lands but I doubt.
In my defense, I posted that in the couple hours between people finding the name and my getting to catch up on the stream, lol. I would love to see more of the cycle in this, or no rare land cycle. Maybe 2-3 lands of no real cycle
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I would love to see Mirage fetches (finish the damn cycle, Wizards), but I don't see why they would need to bypass Standard...
The higher ups at WotC *hate* fetch lands. They will not print them in Standard without a big fight (because it will warp the post-modern format (whenever it comes about)).
I mean, I feel they're okay with Evolving Wilds, so these are probably okay aside from the existence of the shocks atm.
But that does have implications on Frontier, true. But I guess the Onslaught fetches are already in that.
I mean there are legacy decks with ancestors in modern (even if weakened) like Pox, Slivers, etc. If they could provide cards to help those decks like Crystalline Sliver, Hibernation Sliver, Muscle Sliver, and perhaps Hunter Sliver, I would be a happy camper.
Obviously this set is designed in some way to shake up the meta of modern, I hope though that swarmy strategies don't go away in to the night.
The Vorthos in me is super pumped about the Serra planeswalker card. There should be more love for Ulgrotha, as well. Maybe a Sandruu card finally printed (was so bummed was that the minotaur planeswalker pirate stuck on Ixalan was a new character instead of Sandruu). Maybe Feroz could also eventually get a card reprinted. Oh well, dreaming is free...
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You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
For modern its not a problem. The reason they shouldn't have printed it is that it has a really weird rules text for what can harm it. They wont make more cards like it, but they will reprint it.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As you can probably tell I play Jeskai Delver in modern and he plays Mono Green Devotion. I would be really happy if just Daze was in the set. I think that would open up a ton of room for tempo decks.
Started casually making a list of cards I'd like to see. Ten minutes in the list is oppressively long. In addition to some of the great suggestions already mentioned (and some of the not-so-great ones (FoW?!)), I'd like to throw down with:
I loved goblin bombardment, but that seems like something that makes graveyard recursion even better.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I just dont see the point of the "slow" fetches in Modern.
Standard yes, but Modern just has better lands that I wouldnt replace for a Mirage Fetch.
It is a stepping stone card. You start with bad fetches then work your way up to real fetches. It makes the format feel more welcoming, even though it is still has a massive price tag thanks in no small part to the way WotC refuses to print the lands people really want
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
For modern its not a problem. The reason they shouldn't have printed it is that it has a really weird rules text for what can harm it. They wont make more cards like it, but they will reprint it.
The other issue was that the original print run was from a Commander product, which is really not the product you want to release a powerful and potentially popular card like TNN in.
I think price would do for modern what it does in legacy and just punish the greedy mana bases. Do I think modern wants or needs it? Not particularly but I think wizards wants to push games to a slightly lower tempo to make them more interesting and price turning the tides to a few more basics does it. That and it hurts tron (I play bad tron aka mojo blue lol).
As for your includes I would see that 100%, there are just a ton of solid options. A lot of focus is on spells as someone said but there are a ton of solid creatures and enchantments that can be utilized. Pattern of rebirth, pernicious deed, hell even phyrexian delver and weirdness like sphere of resistance can have a home if the set balances its threats to the format with the right answers to reasonably make a difference.
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
For modern its not a problem. The reason they shouldn't have printed it is that it has a really weird rules text for what can harm it. They wont make more cards like it, but they will reprint it.
I think it is extremely unlikely they'll reprint TNN in a modern legal set for one simple reason, it is incredibly busted compared to modern. Even one puts your opponent on a seven turn clock they can't deal with unless they have mass removal, and if you get out two or three, it is basically game over even faster. It's fine in vintage and legacy because of the extreme powerlevel that those formats already have, and it is fine in multiplayer formats such as commander because it is only a threat to one player, who can usually make a deal to have another player deal with it. But in modern? No, not likely at all.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
That is a great idea!
It gives budget players are budget fetch land and it stays with in WotC's arbitrary restriction of no currently modern-legal reprints in the set!
MaRo has stated that the Play Design Team has rigorously tested the new set with existing Modern. I'd argue this set has more testing behind it than an average Standard set, as there's just so much more to Modern than Standard. If they did their jobs, and I'm hoping they did, then developing and testing this was a monumental task. But we shall see once the spoilers begin in under 3 months.
I would love to see Mirage fetches (finish the damn cycle, Wizards), but I don't see why they would need to bypass Standard...
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Actually, what if they do? OH MY GOD HAVE WE ALL BEEN PHYREXIAN SLEEPER AGENTS THIS ENTIRE TIME?!
Much as I want a Grim Tutor reprint -- and I really want a Grim Tutor reprint -- pretty much everyone I've talked to about this who's a judge (although that is, admittedly, only three people) has said that putting Grim Tutor in Modern would be a Bad Idea. Before the reveal of MH1, I pitched it for Standard, and they said that might be acceptable, but Modern caused problems. They said it would probably be more acceptable if it got the Memory Jar treatment in Modern.
Reprinting it would make it accessible for commander, which is what I think a lot of people would want it for. Its current price is about ten times what I'm willing to pay for it, and I think most other people are not about to shell out $180 for it, considering I have never seen anyone playing one irl.
This, however, I would support. These are solid lands that I think get left by the wayside a lot in favor of the faster fetches. Not top tier for Modern, but playable, and good in other formats. (Sidenote: I went and looked these up on Scryfall again and Bad River is like twice the price of the others. Is there a reason for this other than people really loving blue and black?)
Most of the time, they wouldn't. Maybe they'll show up some time after GRN/RNA rotate.
The higher ups at WotC *hate* fetch lands. They will not print them in Standard without a big fight (because it will warp the post-modern format (whenever it comes about)).
+ there will most certainly be a new non-rotating format for arena => the powerlevel steadily increases
i dont think they will get legacy players to join this format ("new" modern) if the don´t print cards like brainstorm, sylvan library, entomb, ancient tomb, wasteland, fow....
with a new non rotating format u can increase the powerlevel of modern and make it a legacy-light version, cause the new non-rotating arena format will get close to moderns current power level after a few years
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
i dont think we are going to see that, Modern is already basically a format that starts at 17-15 life at the get go, this would basically kill so many decks and turn mono red or R/W R/G into tier 1 decks which you can argue they already are.
Heck wasteland would be more fair or rishadan port then price.
Aside from what you mentioned , id like daze, goblin ringleader , true name nemesis , mother of runes maybe nevs disk
“Homo homini lupus est.”
You’re the third or fourth person to bring up True Name Nemesis, but just a couple of weeks ago (in the Tolarian Community College interview), Gavin Verhey said they never should have printed the card. I don’t think he would say that just before a high profile set is announced that includes it.
I’m a hard “no way” on whether TNN is in this set.
“Homo homini lupus est.”
WotC can add 500+ cards to Modern from past sets if they want to...it doesn't mean they are all constructed playable, just like every set they create. I did search Scryfall for legal Legacy cards that are not Modern legal and not on the Reserved list (-legal:modern legal:legacy -is:reserved) to give ~5400 cards. If you take out creatures and lands you end up with ~2500 cards in the pool. You are right that there are probably a handful that would make an immediate impact on Modern if they were reprinted today. I'm sure they had to playtest the Legacy cards next to the Modern cards to see what worked well. That sounds familiar right?
This set was originally conceived a couple years ago and the final cards were probably finalized sometime 4Q18. If their desire was to make money, help people get into Modern through recent sets, and give access to long out of print/expensive cards in the process...wouldn't it be a surprise that some of the cards from the other Iconic, Eternal, A25, and Ultimate sets that were NOT modern playable then become playable in Modern eventually? (-legal:modern legal:legacy (set:uma OR set:a25 OR set:ima OR set:ema) [233 cards]. The numbers are kind of crazy that if you really wanted to be uber cheap you print that list with modifications for draft purposes plus add in some original cards to make 254. Legacy legal ONLY breakdown EMA-IMA-A25-UMA Rarity: 17M, 61R, 81U, 75C. [W30, U42, B42, R35, G38, M22, A14, L10] I'm not saying they are doing this, but it's low hanging fruit since you just need to change the set symbol. They essentially piloted post-Horizon Modern over the last year to see how some powerful Legacy cards interacted with Modern legal cards.
In my defense, I posted that in the couple hours between people finding the name and my getting to catch up on the stream, lol. I would love to see more of the cycle in this, or no rare land cycle. Maybe 2-3 lands of no real cycle
But that does have implications on Frontier, true. But I guess the Onslaught fetches are already in that.
Obviously this set is designed in some way to shake up the meta of modern, I hope though that swarmy strategies don't go away in to the night.
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The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
For modern its not a problem. The reason they shouldn't have printed it is that it has a really weird rules text for what can harm it. They wont make more cards like it, but they will reprint it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Daze
Wild Growth
Wall of Blossoms
Impulse
Flusterstorm
Preordain- would have to be unbanned at the same time so very unlikely
As you can probably tell I play Jeskai Delver in modern and he plays Mono Green Devotion. I would be really happy if just Daze was in the set. I think that would open up a ton of room for tempo decks.
Accumulated Knowledge
Astral Slide
Gempalm Incinerator
Pernicious Deed
Entomb
Goblin Bombardment
Circular Logic
Stasis (j/k... kinda )
Standard yes, but Modern just has better lands that I wouldnt replace for a Mirage Fetch.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It is a stepping stone card. You start with bad fetches then work your way up to real fetches. It makes the format feel more welcoming, even though it is still has a massive price tag thanks in no small part to the way WotC refuses to print the lands people really want
The other issue was that the original print run was from a Commander product, which is really not the product you want to release a powerful and potentially popular card like TNN in.
I think price would do for modern what it does in legacy and just punish the greedy mana bases. Do I think modern wants or needs it? Not particularly but I think wizards wants to push games to a slightly lower tempo to make them more interesting and price turning the tides to a few more basics does it. That and it hurts tron (I play bad tron aka mojo blue lol).
As for your includes I would see that 100%, there are just a ton of solid options. A lot of focus is on spells as someone said but there are a ton of solid creatures and enchantments that can be utilized. Pattern of rebirth, pernicious deed, hell even phyrexian delver and weirdness like sphere of resistance can have a home if the set balances its threats to the format with the right answers to reasonably make a difference.
I think it is extremely unlikely they'll reprint TNN in a modern legal set for one simple reason, it is incredibly busted compared to modern. Even one puts your opponent on a seven turn clock they can't deal with unless they have mass removal, and if you get out two or three, it is basically game over even faster. It's fine in vintage and legacy because of the extreme powerlevel that those formats already have, and it is fine in multiplayer formats such as commander because it is only a threat to one player, who can usually make a deal to have another player deal with it. But in modern? No, not likely at all.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I’m hoping for yawgmoth and gix