I'd agree that Humans should be a generic default Race, and not tied to any color. They appear in large volume in every single color of Magic, so any sort of limitation would be contrived and awkward. Plus, White has other characteristic Races they could use (Kor and Leonin).
I'd do: 1 Human W Kor/Leonin U Merfolk/Vedalken (though I think I'd save Vedalken for a later content pack/microtransaction, since IMO they're not distinct enough from Humans, unless we're talkin the Mirrodin, four-armed version, which would require a distinct skeleton/animations to work) B Innistradi Vampire/Azra (Azra are still very new, but black has the problem where MOST of its characteristic Races simply can't hold a spark, so slim pickins) R Goblin G Elf
For Classes, I think Soldier, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue for base classes, branching into numerous options for Advanced Class. I feel like Cleric needs to be distinct from Wizard, because the source of their power and how they acquire it is very, VERY different. They're only contemporary in that they're magic users, but the same could be said about the relation between Soldier and Rogue (They're both melee based weapon users), so they should be distinct from each other.
There are other races which are predominately white, but these are not the characteristic race of the respective color. Please don't ask me why that is the case. It just is.
That being said Kor, Leonin and Azra are all really solid pics for MMO races.
We also have Orcs and Dwarves in red which fantasy staples but are often neglected in MTG.
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If we look at the traditional tank/healer/dps triangle, I imagine your style would be very different depending on which mana you "tap" into. For examples:
So a Rakdos tank might stay alive with its life draining and has various ways to disrupt an opponent's skills/defense (discard).
Healer wise:
W: Traditional/protection healer. U: Provide illusion/counterspell to ward teammates. B: Blood drain, undeath (temporarily invulnerable/unkillable). R: Healing via damage, provides teammate the ability to become more powerful because of damage (berserking). G: Regeneration/buffing healer.
I'd agree that Humans should be a generic default Race, and not tied to any color. They appear in large volume in every single color of Magic, so any sort of limitation would be contrived and awkward. Plus, White has other characteristic Races they could use (Kor and Leonin).
I'd do: 1 Human W Kor/Leonin U Merfolk/Vedalken (though I think I'd save Vedalken for a later content pack/microtransaction, since IMO they're not distinct enough from Humans, unless we're talkin the Mirrodin, four-armed version, which would require a distinct skeleton/animations to work) B Innistradi Vampire/Azra (Azra are still very new, but black has the problem where MOST of its characteristic Races simply can't hold a spark, so slim pickins) R Goblin G Elf
For Classes, I think Soldier, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue for base classes, branching into numerous options for Advanced Class. I feel like Cleric needs to be distinct from Wizard, because the source of their power and how they acquire it is very, VERY different. They're only contemporary in that they're magic users, but the same could be said about the relation between Soldier and Rogue (They're both melee based weapon users), so they should be distinct from each other.
I think an MMO can make some changes so yes in the card game Human is the White Iconic Race sure but in an MMO or any RPG Humans are always present and jack of all trades masters of none. So I stand by not tying them to a color. And they are loosely tied anyway. Its more they don't want to bother putting leonin and kor on more planes if you ask me.
I like the above list. I don't know if Kor are all that distinct visually from Humans though...I guess Elves aren't but they are Elves lol. Dwarves Maybe.
Put Orcs with Goblins in Red since Dwarves and Orc are common in RPGs
Kraul maybe in Green.
Now there are two schools of thought when it comes to classes, basically small, medium or large.
Small is three or four: Fighter (Wears Armor, Swings Sword), Spellcaster (Usually split into Arcane, studied and Divine, faith), and Skill (basically any skill type character not fighting in the front or not expected to tank basically).
Neverwinter is absolute garbage. It's not just a WoW copy, it's a very bad, very low quality WoW copy.
Star Trek Online is good if you're a Star Trek fan, but pretty much garbage if you want a competitive game. Why? There's no endgame content. PvP is virtually non-existent. While there's three classes, the game is so unbalanced, one of those classes to do 95% of things better than the other two.
Overall, Cryptic games put one thing above all else: MICROTRANSACTIONS. And some of those aren't very MICRO. Make no mistake, Cryptic loves gambling. The best stuff comes in gambling boxes. The games are built entirely around an unending stream of gambling boxes.
This is not my idea of good news.
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Aether Revolt was a revolting pre-release. As if Vehicles weren't frustrating enough, now you don't even have to crew them.
I’ll be very disappointed if this game boils down to a bunch of typical archetypes like tanks and healers. Every player should be a Planeswalker. It should be difficult for a Planeswalker to function without summoning minions. Those minions can fulfill roles, perhaps with specialties for players within those constraints (i.e., white and green planeswalkers could be best at summoning tank minions).
Indeed do whatever you want is fine for solo games. But for MMO's classless systems don't work well at all. Also summons tend to be unbalanced they either go down like paper or they are way too powerful. Less so in non Turn Based system but still...
Strength, Dexterity, and Spellcasting.
Also how many Walkers currently are versatile. The Dragons are most of the rest aren't even if they should. By that I mean Teferi and Karn for instance should be versatile but they haven't showed it. How many rely on summons? Kiora is the only who springs to mind.
I hope the trinity is in full force in this game. Games who tried to kick that aspect of MMOs out were dreadful.
City of Heroes (interestingly, the OG Cryptic designed game) did a good job of it.
It didn't try to completely reinvent the wheel. There were still class archetypes, not some sort of freeform "everyone can be everything" type of system. The Trinity classes were still PRESENT in the game (Tankers (Tank, duh), Defenders(Support) and Blasters/Scrappers(Ranged/Melee DPS respectively), but there were also Controllers which were a primary control focused archetype. Not like you see in most games (A 3second stun with a 1 minute cooldown), but to the point where if you had a competent Controller you could do without a Tanker or without a Defender, or sometimes even with them filling the DPS role depending on what powersets the controller had. (Which was another great thing with CoH, every archetype had an array of different Primary and Secondary powersets to chose from (1 of each) so you could have two characters of the same Archetype that performed wildly differently, only really sharing their core traits.)
CoH's Support was also a lot more than just "Heals" as well. In fact there were a few Support sets that lacked heals entirely. Support was far more centered around buffing and debuffing, essentially preventing damage rather than just recovering from it. Buffs also stacked from different casters, so you were never in a situation where adding a second player with the same support set was redundant and actually hurt your performance. In fact, some of the strongest teams in the game came in the form of All Defender groups, where stacking multiple buffs or multiple types of buffs from different sources could push everyone into Tank level survivability with pure DPS levels of damage output.
You COULD run a group strictly adhering to the Trinity (and some players even insisted on it, since that was the system they were used to), but you could really run content with almost any team buildup, and never NEEDED to strictly obey "Tank, Healer, 3 DPS." No tank? Get a Controller; They can lock down enemies enough that you don't have to worry about who has agro. No DPS? Add another Defender; they'll either buff everyone else's damage/recharge/resource recovery, or debuff enemy defense/resistance enough to make up the difference (possibly more than that, even). Don't have a Defender? Get a Controller; they'll neuter incoming damage and have enough support powers to mitigate anything that slips through.
Sounds interesting hopefully they take some inspiration from that.
I am surprised they didn't try to make a new Superhero based game honestly given the popularity now you figure an RPG either computer or tabletop could break through in the current climate.
Oh I loved playing CoV back in the day. I never really got warm with heroes but the villains were my thing.
And I agree with you to a certain degree. The CoH/V games did a really great job in making hybrid builds and a lot of crazy stuff work. Especially the controller were a good addition and they would need something like that in an MTG MMO, given that Jace is our poster boy. I was looking more in the Guild Wars 2 direction which really suffered from the lack of a functioning trinity, while as you pointed out a default party did run great in CoH/V.
I generally like the Cryptic MMOs since they try new stuff without dropping the ball on the basics.
Ugh. If this is just another tank/healer/dps game, they can keep it. I'd rather see this turn into something like No Man's Sky, where the main thrust is exploration instead of dungeon-crawls/raids.
City of Heroes was a supreme MMO, so much character design, even the same “class” could be modified into your personal uniqueness. Healing with darkness (via damage) plays very differently from healing with radiation (mutates your target while you heal), tanking with Will Power too plays differently from Super Strength, the list could go on.
And Mastermind, Warshade, Widows, etc, that game allows you to play true hybrid in YOUR own way. I cannot complain.
Given that YOU are a Planeswalker when you play Magic, almost every Planeswalker relies on summoning creatures. I’d hope player options are more inspired by iconic spells from the same than from the design of Planeswalker cards, which are far more limited in comparison.
City of Heroes was a supreme MMO, so much character design, even the same “class” could be modified into your personal uniqueness. Healing with darkness (via damage) plays very differently from healing with radiation (mutates your target while you heal), tanking with Will Power too plays differently from Super Strength, the list could go on.
And Mastermind, Warshade, Widows, etc, that game allows you to play true hybrid in YOUR own way. I cannot complain.
Let’s not oversell CoH/V. Character creation and design was fantastic. The rest of the game had a lot of questionable elements. Repetitive missions leading to no real variety in leveling, total lack of interesting enemies (a world of superheroes and you never saw a super villain...yay, more thugs), not much endgame content... I still dream of a game that marries CoH character creation with diverse and varied gameplay.
Given that YOU are a Planeswalker when you play Magic, almost every Planeswalker relies on summoning creatures. I’d hope player options are more inspired by iconic spells from the same than from the design of Planeswalker cards, which are far more limited in comparison.
City of Heroes was a supreme MMO, so much character design, even the same “class” could be modified into your personal uniqueness. Healing with darkness (via damage) plays very differently from healing with radiation (mutates your target while you heal), tanking with Will Power too plays differently from Super Strength, the list could go on.
And Mastermind, Warshade, Widows, etc, that game allows you to play true hybrid in YOUR own way. I cannot complain.
Let’s not oversell CoH/V. Character creation and design was fantastic. The rest of the game had a lot of questionable elements. Repetitive missions leading to no real variety in leveling, total lack of interesting enemies (a world of superheroes and you never saw a super villain...yay, more thugs), not much endgame content... I still dream of a game that marries CoH character creation with diverse and varied gameplay.
I think that, to an extent, a lot of that simply goes with the MMO trappings. MMOs have always been, and likely will always be, built on repetitive gameplay elements. You're always going to have huge numbers of generic enemies to defeat just by shear virtue of MMO progression. They can't all be super villains, or the term "Super Villain" stops meaning anything.
I don't disagree that this WAS one of the game's problem areas, though for what it's worth, I think that CoH/V got better at this later on in its run. This was especially egregious back in the beginning.
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I'd do:
1 Human
W Kor/Leonin
U Merfolk/Vedalken (though I think I'd save Vedalken for a later content pack/microtransaction, since IMO they're not distinct enough from Humans, unless we're talkin the Mirrodin, four-armed version, which would require a distinct skeleton/animations to work)
B Innistradi Vampire/Azra (Azra are still very new, but black has the problem where MOST of its characteristic Races simply can't hold a spark, so slim pickins)
R Goblin
G Elf
For Classes, I think Soldier, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue for base classes, branching into numerous options for Advanced Class. I feel like Cleric needs to be distinct from Wizard, because the source of their power and how they acquire it is very, VERY different. They're only contemporary in that they're magic users, but the same could be said about the relation between Soldier and Rogue (They're both melee based weapon users), so they should be distinct from each other.
See here: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/113691022933/so-is-this-about-right-characteristic-and
There are other races which are predominately white, but these are not the characteristic race of the respective color. Please don't ask me why that is the case. It just is.
That being said Kor, Leonin and Azra are all really solid pics for MMO races.
We also have Orcs and Dwarves in red which fantasy staples but are often neglected in MTG.
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Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
W: Traditional/protection tank.
U: Dodge/avoidance/illusion tank.
B: Life drain tank.
R: Mobile/agile/anti-WU tank.
G: Regeneration/buffing tank.
So a Rakdos tank might stay alive with its life draining and has various ways to disrupt an opponent's skills/defense (discard).
Healer wise:
W: Traditional/protection healer.
U: Provide illusion/counterspell to ward teammates.
B: Blood drain, undeath (temporarily invulnerable/unkillable).
R: Healing via damage, provides teammate the ability to become more powerful because of damage (berserking).
G: Regeneration/buffing healer.
A Boros healer might act like Lightning Helix on legs (literally), and a Rakdos healer might go with Vampiric Link and Reckless Charge.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I think an MMO can make some changes so yes in the card game Human is the White Iconic Race sure but in an MMO or any RPG Humans are always present and jack of all trades masters of none. So I stand by not tying them to a color. And they are loosely tied anyway. Its more they don't want to bother putting leonin and kor on more planes if you ask me.
I like the above list. I don't know if Kor are all that distinct visually from Humans though...I guess Elves aren't but they are Elves lol. Dwarves Maybe.
Put Orcs with Goblins in Red since Dwarves and Orc are common in RPGs
Kraul maybe in Green.
Now there are two schools of thought when it comes to classes, basically small, medium or large.
Small is three or four: Fighter (Wears Armor, Swings Sword), Spellcaster (Usually split into Arcane, studied and Divine, faith), and Skill (basically any skill type character not fighting in the front or not expected to tank basically).
Soldier: Knight, Warrior, Berserker (or Barbarian), Samurai
Skill: Scout, Rogue, Assassin, Monk, Pirate, Ninja
Magic: Wizard, Cleric, Advisor, Shaman, Druid, Artificer
Those are the major options I see in terms of Class.
Neverwinter is absolute garbage. It's not just a WoW copy, it's a very bad, very low quality WoW copy.
Star Trek Online is good if you're a Star Trek fan, but pretty much garbage if you want a competitive game. Why? There's no endgame content. PvP is virtually non-existent. While there's three classes, the game is so unbalanced, one of those classes to do 95% of things better than the other two.
Overall, Cryptic games put one thing above all else: MICROTRANSACTIONS. And some of those aren't very MICRO. Make no mistake, Cryptic loves gambling. The best stuff comes in gambling boxes. The games are built entirely around an unending stream of gambling boxes.
This is not my idea of good news.
That being said, the game needs a solid minion mechanic to have thopter, zombies and whatnot join the fight.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
Strength, Dexterity, and Spellcasting.
Also how many Walkers currently are versatile. The Dragons are most of the rest aren't even if they should. By that I mean Teferi and Karn for instance should be versatile but they haven't showed it. How many rely on summons? Kiora is the only who springs to mind.
City of Heroes (interestingly, the OG Cryptic designed game) did a good job of it.
It didn't try to completely reinvent the wheel. There were still class archetypes, not some sort of freeform "everyone can be everything" type of system. The Trinity classes were still PRESENT in the game (Tankers (Tank, duh), Defenders(Support) and Blasters/Scrappers(Ranged/Melee DPS respectively), but there were also Controllers which were a primary control focused archetype. Not like you see in most games (A 3second stun with a 1 minute cooldown), but to the point where if you had a competent Controller you could do without a Tanker or without a Defender, or sometimes even with them filling the DPS role depending on what powersets the controller had. (Which was another great thing with CoH, every archetype had an array of different Primary and Secondary powersets to chose from (1 of each) so you could have two characters of the same Archetype that performed wildly differently, only really sharing their core traits.)
CoH's Support was also a lot more than just "Heals" as well. In fact there were a few Support sets that lacked heals entirely. Support was far more centered around buffing and debuffing, essentially preventing damage rather than just recovering from it. Buffs also stacked from different casters, so you were never in a situation where adding a second player with the same support set was redundant and actually hurt your performance. In fact, some of the strongest teams in the game came in the form of All Defender groups, where stacking multiple buffs or multiple types of buffs from different sources could push everyone into Tank level survivability with pure DPS levels of damage output.
You COULD run a group strictly adhering to the Trinity (and some players even insisted on it, since that was the system they were used to), but you could really run content with almost any team buildup, and never NEEDED to strictly obey "Tank, Healer, 3 DPS." No tank? Get a Controller; They can lock down enemies enough that you don't have to worry about who has agro. No DPS? Add another Defender; they'll either buff everyone else's damage/recharge/resource recovery, or debuff enemy defense/resistance enough to make up the difference (possibly more than that, even). Don't have a Defender? Get a Controller; they'll neuter incoming damage and have enough support powers to mitigate anything that slips through.
Man, I miss that game.
I am surprised they didn't try to make a new Superhero based game honestly given the popularity now you figure an RPG either computer or tabletop could break through in the current climate.
And I agree with you to a certain degree. The CoH/V games did a really great job in making hybrid builds and a lot of crazy stuff work. Especially the controller were a good addition and they would need something like that in an MTG MMO, given that Jace is our poster boy. I was looking more in the Guild Wars 2 direction which really suffered from the lack of a functioning trinity, while as you pointed out a default party did run great in CoH/V.
I generally like the Cryptic MMOs since they try new stuff without dropping the ball on the basics.
And there are a few planeswalker who do stuff with creatures. Here is a list of every planeswalker card who puts token on the battlefield.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=type:planeswalker o:token
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
And Mastermind, Warshade, Widows, etc, that game allows you to play true hybrid in YOUR own way. I cannot complain.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Given that YOU are a Planeswalker when you play Magic, almost every Planeswalker relies on summoning creatures. I’d hope player options are more inspired by iconic spells from the same than from the design of Planeswalker cards, which are far more limited in comparison.
Let’s not oversell CoH/V. Character creation and design was fantastic. The rest of the game had a lot of questionable elements. Repetitive missions leading to no real variety in leveling, total lack of interesting enemies (a world of superheroes and you never saw a super villain...yay, more thugs), not much endgame content... I still dream of a game that marries CoH character creation with diverse and varied gameplay.
I think that, to an extent, a lot of that simply goes with the MMO trappings. MMOs have always been, and likely will always be, built on repetitive gameplay elements. You're always going to have huge numbers of generic enemies to defeat just by shear virtue of MMO progression. They can't all be super villains, or the term "Super Villain" stops meaning anything.
I don't disagree that this WAS one of the game's problem areas, though for what it's worth, I think that CoH/V got better at this later on in its run. This was especially egregious back in the beginning.